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BaldieJr
12-29-2004, 03:55 PM
What plane in PF would be best for a newb to learn basic concepts in?

I want to create a training campaign for casual gamers. I think this will help make the game stay on peoples hard-drives (and help grow our "niche").

crazyivan1970
12-29-2004, 03:58 PM
Yak-1b IMO - nice balanced plane.

BaldieJr
12-29-2004, 04:00 PM
It has to be a PF plane.

crazyivan1970
12-29-2004, 04:08 PM
You such a pain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - Zero then... A6M5a, hands down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Von_Zero
12-29-2004, 04:09 PM
Ki43 for Japan and F2a2 for US, Hurri for GB

Snuffy Smith
12-29-2004, 04:20 PM
I like the FM2 to practice carrier ops with. It is very nicely balanced with some power and still very forgiving to fly.

e5kimo
12-29-2004, 05:24 PM
i d say spitfire or seafire for PF.
their guns pack a mean punch, they are relatively fast and not too bad a turner. they are easy to handle on complex engine management and are also rather forgiving to fly. possibly the easiest plane to recover from a stall.

han freak solo
12-29-2004, 05:33 PM
How about the P-39 or P-400 due to great vision while taking off or taxiing.

Nose wheel, baby!!

x__CRASH__x
12-29-2004, 06:00 PM
Seafire.

Hands down the easiest plane to take-off, fly, and land on a carrier. The epitome of a n00b plane.


(dons fire ******ant jacket)

LEBillfish
12-29-2004, 06:02 PM
I'd agree with Ki43 or maybe better still A6M3 as it has ALL of the elements of CEM, can stall but is easy to recover....It unfortunately does not have rudder or aeloron trim, but that could be supplemented with allied planes like a p40 as next step.

BaldieJr
12-29-2004, 07:05 PM
Bah.

Always thinking in terms of combat.

How about the HL2 player whos never flown a sim? He buys PF, fires it up, and crashes 50 times on take-off because he knows NOTHING about sims.

The game goes to the shelf and another possible sim player goes back to FPS games.

We need to get these people up to speed. I'll do it, but i'm no expert.

So, I'll ask again: What plane would be good for a newb to learn ALL the basics in? I want to cover bombing, navigation, take-offs/landings, enemy id'ing, and all the BASIC stuff a casual gamer needs to get going with flight sims.

I'm trying to "set the hook", not create aces.

LEBillfish
12-29-2004, 07:17 PM
A6m21...Easy to fly, forgiving, takes off at 130kmh which it reaches almost instantly, lands between 120-210...Good guns and teaches to NOT take hits.....Also, best chance to get kills in and practice manuevers without risk of stalling.

16 clicks down elevator, and if they want to try it 14 clicks right rudder to trim. 6 radiator as a constant....85% Prop pitch and 95% throttle and it will fly all day on 50% fuel.

A newb will feel confident in 15 minutes in it...Just remind them that the key to ALL planes here is Altitude, altitude, altitude.

Kootenai
12-29-2004, 07:19 PM
My vote goes to the Zero, and if I had to narrow it down I'd probably pick the A6m3 or A6m5. Very forgiving, no bad habits, does all basic maneuvers well, easy to fly and to land. Only drawback is its vulnerability to enemy fire but as you say combat is not the top priority here anyway. I'd nix the Ki-43 and the Buffalo because of the funky gunsights if nothing else. If I weren't limited to Pacific planes I'd pick an La-5 (any of them really but especially the FN as it's the best of the series) as the best learner plane because it's nearly as docile as the Zero but has some significant combat advantages, including better speed and firepower and vastly better durability.

x__CRASH__x
12-29-2004, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Bah.

Always thinking in terms of combat.

How about the HL2 player whos never flown a sim? He buys PF, fires it up, and crashes 50 times on take-off because he knows NOTHING about sims.

The game goes to the shelf and another possible sim player goes back to FPS games.

We need to get these people up to speed. I'll do it, but i'm no expert.

So, I'll ask again: What plane would be good for a newb to learn ALL the basics in? I want to cover bombing, navigation, take-offs/landings, enemy id'ing, and all the BASIC stuff a casual gamer needs to get going with flight sims.

I'm trying to "set the hook", not create aces. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are trying to set the hook with a PF plane, I still say the Seafire. It is very, very forgiving. But I say that with several years under my belt.

If you really want the easiest planes, then you have to dip into FB. Something like an unloaded IL-2. Just like the training missions used to teach us.

LEXX_Luthor
12-29-2004, 07:36 PM
I'd say D3A for the flight sim Newbie. Can't stall it, fixed gear, huge wing, etc....

Hopefully, B5N or Devastator someday.

p1ngu666
12-29-2004, 07:42 PM
id agree with luthor
but for nav id choose a plane with full trim, cos sadly u need it in pf for a plane to fly a straight corse

seafire is a nice plane too, and ull need a multi engine plane too

muaBDnuerF
12-29-2004, 08:06 PM
Being still a noob myself, and having talked two of my friends to pick up the game and give it a try, I think I kinda know what you're talking of and looking for...
I think one of the most important things is gradually increasing the realism settings. I flew a Coop with said friends with the settings I use, which are a compromise between realism and fun (ext sights available, no labels, no icons on the map save for the flight path), and they got shot down in no time. They were pretty frustrated, to say the least. Anyway, one more time emphasis on telling the player to increase the difficulty when he feels ready to.
As far as planes are concerned, the Sea/Spitfire and the Zero are easy-going.
Can't give any advice on the actual contents really, apart from the obvious, but I hope this made some sense and is of help to you. The training vids&missions don't even tell you the basics, save for takeoff and landing. Not exactly a good job for a standalone product methinks. Falcon 4.0 was awesome in that respect.

x__CRASH__x
12-29-2004, 08:14 PM
I would have recommended the Zero, save for the fact that it is the most difficult aircraft to trap with.

Zero = The Big Bolter Baby

tttiger
12-29-2004, 10:36 PM
I assume from what you've written you want something in which you can learn how to fly. Forgiving. As close to an AT-6 as you can get.

Before you insisted on PF Only, I would have said IL-2 (Field Mod).

But for PF only, SBD for sure. It's about as slow and steady as you can get.

Now, if you want: "Holy ****! This is FUN!" The Oscar is the most aerobatic and forgiving of the fighters IMHO. An absolute joy to fly even if you never kill anything in it. Just doing half Cuban 8s over an airfield is a hoot (and good training, it's how I break in every plane I haven't flown before).

Then they can move up to a KI-84, the sweetest plane in the game. Almost as maneuverable as the Oscar and you can kill EVERYTHING in it.

ttt

John_Stag
12-29-2004, 10:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
Seafire.

Hands down the easiest plane to take-off, fly, and land on a carrier. _The epitome of a n00b plane._


(dons fire ******ant jacket) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matter of taste, Crash. Some of us appreciate quality, and some of us are just masochists. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gladiator; You have to aim deliberately at the water to put it in, and you don't need no steenkin' hook to land.

Example campaign: British carriers to Narvik in 1940. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

x__CRASH__x
12-29-2004, 10:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
...Then they can move up to a KI-84, the sweetest plane in the game. Almost as maneuverable as the Oscar and you can kill EVERYTHING in it... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Wow! This coming from a guy who called people who used cannons newbies! LOL Now the Ki-84 is the sweetest plane? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TheGozr
12-29-2004, 11:32 PM
P51 all automatic planes..

Oilburner_TAW
12-29-2004, 11:55 PM
The first thing I did when I got PF was land on a carrier...so I'm guessing this would have to be a carrier capable plane. Nothing is easier to trap with than a seafire (30ft long hook), but looking at everything there is no carrier capable plane more noob friendly than the D3. In addition, the D3 has some "features" which a noob should learn such as
1-reticle dimmer, site protector movement
2-speed/dive brakes
3-gunsite view
4-switching positions/autopilot settings
etc...

x__CRASH__x
12-30-2004, 12:27 AM
I can agree the D3 is a friendly aircraft to fly. But Baldy is looking for a "hook". I don't think the D3 has the fun factor that the Seafire has. I mean you can speed around in a sea fire and do some fast flying. Buzz the carrier, loop, roll, whatever. And then you can land easy!

I still vote for the sea fire.

Daiichidoku
12-30-2004, 12:30 AM
I would have said any Oscar or an early zero...A6M2-21, cuz the engine wont wuit in neg G, or the A6M3(prob the best zero there is, I laugh at those who seem to jump into A6M7-63s, prob just cuz theyre '45) cuz of its greeat (for a zero) roll

That was, until Lexxx's post reminded me of the Val...acts as a fighter (in a pinch), bomber, and gives a crew position fo rgunnery...plus the aforementioned fixed gear, etc...perfect all-in-one training vehicle

DarkCanuck420
12-30-2004, 12:43 AM
So basically every plane has been mentioned. Im new, i only played fps and am now getting into this sim series. i started off slow because of frustration. i think its a good idea to make such training missions because PF lacks them. i now have fb/aep and i still have problems. i have not been playing 24/7 but to know what planes are easy to fly and can put up a fight is helpful for the long-eared-newb.

x__CRASH__x
12-30-2004, 12:53 AM
Have you been to Hyperlobby Dark? If you are a little proactive and start talking to people, I bet you could find people who could take you up for a lesson or two. I've been asked by people out of the blue before. And I enjoyed helping them. It gets them motivated about the game to make big improvements in just a short amount of time.

x__CRASH__x
12-30-2004, 12:54 AM
oh, forgot to mention, if you use Hyperlobby and you see me, just PM me. If I can, I will be happy to help.

JG27*CRASH on Hyperlobby

HotelBushranger
12-30-2004, 01:23 AM
"id say spitfire or seafire for PF.
their guns pack a mean punch, they are relatively fast and not too bad a turner."

When I was flying the RN campaign, the most noticeable thing about the seafire, was that it was a very slow turner, if i turned harded i would have stalled into the drink, which i actually did a few times.

"P51 all automatic planes.. "

Nah, noticed P-51 stalls too much.

However, I might not take any of this for a grain of salt, because i cant exactly call myself an ace. My vote is for the P-40, especially the B and C models, because when it DOES stall, its THE easiest thing to get out of, literally half a second opposite rudder brings it out completely to level flight, working bout 90% of the time. And you dont really need hundreds of hours on it too completely master it either. The only problem with the earlier models, is the vision, which is worse than the later E and M models, but THEY had a bit more difficulty recovering from stalls. But still, vote goes for the good old P-40! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TwoTall2
12-30-2004, 02:33 AM
I would have thought the Rufe would be right up there for PF, hey hitting the water is what its supposed to do. It's just not the most manoeuverable ship around, or the Gloster Gladiator, she a total ***** cat to fly. Then again the best thing a noob can do is spend some quality time the ride that tickles his/her fancy the most and plays with it.

See how the plane handles on take off/ landing high altitude and low altitude. First learn to fly before you learn to fight. Become one with the plane....you ARE the plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BaldieJr
12-30-2004, 03:57 PM
After making a quick review of the PF planes, I'm thinking Crash is onto something.

The seafire is forgiving, it does carrier ops, all its trims work, and it can carry bombs rockets and drop tanks.

I'm going to go with it. I think its a good plane for getting people started in sims.

Oilburner_TAW
12-30-2004, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
I can agree the D3 is a friendly aircraft to fly. But Baldy is looking for a "hook". I don't think the D3 has the fun factor that the Seafire has. I mean you can speed around in a sea fire and do some fast flying. Buzz the carrier, loop, roll, whatever. And then you can land easy!

I still vote for the sea fire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't argue with that. The D3 has as much "flash" as an old buick while the Seafire definately has "sex appeal" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

x6BL_Brando
12-30-2004, 04:29 PM
As someone once said, in RL, "any idiot can fly a Spitfire"

It'd get my vote as a good fighter plane to train on. After all, any plane will stall if roughly handled....surely that's what training is all about?

PBNA-Boosher
12-30-2004, 04:50 PM
SBD! Slow and forgiving.

JR_Greenhorn
12-30-2004, 11:01 PM
I know it's not a PF plane, but I've found the best "hook" plane for people I know is the Hurricane Mk IIc. It's easy to fly, easy to land, it performs well enough, but not so well as to allow a new player to unwittingly slam into target planes with an unexpectedly large speed differential.

The "c" variant of the Hurricane is nice for new players because of its armament. The HL2 player or whatnot has enough to deal with learning to fly, and gunnery should be the next step, not the first. Those 4 20mm can cut down a plane easily if one can just get it in the gunsight. There's nothing more discouraging to a new player than scoring hits without doing significant damage.

With unlimitied ammo on, a new player can fly around slinging 20mm lead without getting frustrated by some of the aspects of the game that require development of skills, such as deflection shooting, effective use of very large and very small guns, etc.

Other nice characteristics of the Hurricane:
It has a nice, middle of the road damage model. If you take hits, you know you are damamged, yet you aren't simply blasted out of the sky.
Landing is the toughest part of the game for players new to flying, and the Hurricane is one of the easier planes to land.


Baldie Jr. mentioned the target player as a former HL2 or similar player.
The Il-2s and other attack planes are good planes for someone new to the game, yet commitied to learning it. Biplanes and other really early war planes also just feel to sluggish to a new player, and make better planes for the next step (Think I-16 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

Saburo_0
12-31-2004, 12:37 AM
Think you made the right choice with the Seafire.Quite aerobatic while being able to take more hits than the Zeros or Oscars- very important for a new player trying to do ground/ship attacks.
The Dauntless tho is a great plane just lacks speed.

actionhank1786
12-31-2004, 12:39 AM
I'm thinking, since we limited it to PF, i'll go with Crash and the gang and agree that the Seafire is the champ.
The hook hangs past the main gear, it was my first landing.
It took my carrier landing flower, and for that i'll always have a soft spot in my heart for it...er...

Philipscdrw
12-31-2004, 04:34 AM
How about the B-25? That's a fun aircraft to fly. Maybe later in the campaign you could discuss level bombing and gunnery practice?

I really like this idea, BaldieJR, and although I've been here since Version 1.0 I think I'll fly your campaign when it's completed.

Smidlee
12-31-2004, 05:59 AM
I'm a noob and love to fly the F4U-D with it's 2250 hp engine... yeah! power! Also got 6 mean .50 cal gun to mow down planes with. Well, I still need practice landing on the carrior though. Landing on the carrior upside down isn't too cool and also it hard to taxi like this.

P.S. I like the fact I can both bomb and dogfight with this plane so to me this would be the plane to learn on even if it's not the easy to land and take off. Yet after I learn to land this one, the others should be a snap.

Petrosky
12-31-2004, 03:37 PM
its very hard to say one plane over another is best to begin with to many variables . best to pick one you like. then just practice as much as you can it will be very rewarding when you start getting the hang of things. its a learning curve anyway so should be the plane you like.

monarch1956
01-03-2005, 01:23 PM
Well I'm new to flight sims, for what its worth I found Yaks pretty good all rounders. 1b and 9's are (were) my favs.

Akwar
01-03-2005, 01:26 PM
I was partial to the LAGG 3 in IL-2,

Its got great handling in my opinon.

Stanger_361st
01-03-2005, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
Seafire.

Hands down the easiest plane to take-off, fly, and land on a carrier. _The epitome of a n00b plane._


(dons fire ******ant jacket) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought Seafire nickname was Dweebfire. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif