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ned7777
07-21-2006, 09:54 AM
Does abybody think that their will be better human modeling in bob like could be look over to our radio operator in a mosquito and see him or if i look down could i see my self. i would like the relism of being able to look over after a fighter shoots my bomber and see my copliot dead or dying in the chair. the problem with ai bodys in il2 and pf is that they do not slump over dead they just look striaght ahead. i want better bodys in BoB i atleast want to see my own body when i look down
i really would like http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 09:57 AM
I heard that when you look at the radio operator to long, he'll either tell a joke or box ya one.

He's Irish. Immersion!!!

ploughman
07-21-2006, 10:00 AM
Me too but any gore and you start getting age limits slapped on the front of the packaging and that hits sales. A downloadable or diskupable gore add-on following age verification would be nice though.

Some A/C in FB have a limited ammoung of gore modelled, the He-111 get's a bloody glass house and the waist gunners on the PBY hang over the side.

Chuck_Older
07-21-2006, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by ned7777:
Does abybody think that their will be better human modeling in bob like could be look over to our radio operator in a mosquito and see him or if i look down could i see my self. i would like the relism of being able to look over after a fighter shoots my bomber and see my copliot dead or dying in the chair. the problem with ai bodys in il2 and pf is that they do not slump over dead they just look striaght ahead. i want better bodys in BoB i atleast want to see my own body when i look down
i really would like http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

This has been brought up a lot

many players feel it's more realistic to have a pilot's body in the cockpit

I say it's not, because that body is not under your control- you will block gauges and instruments with that pilot body, and all you control as a virtual pilot is the stick, rudder, throttle, and other controls- not a virtual human body

The second my instrumentation is blocked by my virtual right forearm when I apply full left stick is the second I stop playing the sim

ned7777
07-21-2006, 10:09 AM
OK maybe not my body but the other flight members bodys and the enemy's. but in response to gore levels they can have just some blood and ragdoll physics but not like your copilot screaming on the floor while the blood goes every where. that would be relistic but not good for age ratings
i just want some relism on body effects

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 10:14 AM
Jokes aside, I personally wish I wasn't wearing my stealth suit while sitting in the cockpit. It would add realism to see legs and feet and a hand on the stick. It would be really awesome to see your reflection, or the reflection of the guages, on the cockpit glass when flying at night. I'm sure the gauges gave off just enough light.

I would also like to see oil on the 109 windshield from the outside, just for realism.

Why not have some grass and debris fly around the cockpit when powering up on a grassy runway?

What about having the glass shatter, causing you to see red just like many real pilots wrote about?

What about bailing incorrectly and getting wiped out by the tail? That happened.

Imagine a first person view as you are bailing and seeing your wounded plane drift away from you.

Imagine pressing Ctrl+F and your virtual self flips the one finger salute to your enemy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Refuelling and rearming!!! That happened!!!!!

Random mechanical failures!!!! They happened!!!

Ok, I'll stop here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

ploughman
07-21-2006, 10:17 AM
The bailing incorrectly one makes me whince there Pirsch. The number of time's I've bailed from a tumbling crate and gone through the prop disk...I'd like to see the graphics that produces.

I'm with Chuck on the pilot having a body in the cockpit. It'd be nice to have some crew just as long as, when they expire messily beside me they don't slump over anything important.

ned7777
07-21-2006, 10:23 AM
they cant slump on gauges because they will be straped to seats put i would like to see the slumped in their seats or may be an inside view of the enemy plane i want body relizm

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 10:44 AM
Well, I think when we bail it should remain "first person". If we catch the prop or the tail then our screen simply blacks out. No need for graphics.

From the exterior view we only need the pilot to go limp the same way they do when you shoot them in their chutes,.......not that I've ever done that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

msalama
07-21-2006, 10:47 AM
Ok, I'll stop here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

...and I'll start http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Erm... clickable cockpits? True-to-life AC management procedures? Realistic endurance limits per AC? Realistic torque and propwash effects?

First two we WON'T get, that's much is certain. But the last two? We'll see about that...

Xiolablu3
07-21-2006, 11:04 AM
I think until players look totally real, having a poorly animated copilot would just look stupid and ruin the immersion.


Wait until graphics get a bit better before you start implementing people, please. They have so many curves etc that to implemement them in the game so that they look real would just be too much of a prformance hit. And I suspect they still wouldnt look realistic anyway.


Clickable cockpits is overrated in my opinon. Its much easier to hit a key than to try and find a control with your mouse in the heat of battle.

If you want it to look real then make a cockpit panel at home and use it instead of a keyboard, wouldnt be too hard.

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Clickable cockpits is overrated in my opinon. Its much easier to hit a key than to try and find a control with your mouse in the heat of battle.



I agree. Seeking physical realism with a keyboard or mouse is going backwards. Realistically practical and user-friendly is more in the right direction.

triad773
07-21-2006, 11:26 AM
Ok instead of clickable, how about touch screen technology? Maybe a bit of a streatch near-term?

Justa thought

Von_Rat
07-21-2006, 11:31 AM
The second my instrumentation is blocked by my virtual right forearm when I apply full left stick is the second I stop playing the sim
__________________________________________________

bob will have 6dof, if your arm is blocking gauge just move your head a little. like you would in real life.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-21-2006, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by triad773:
Ok instead of clickable, how about touch screen technology? Maybe a bit of a streatch near-term?

Justa thought

ugh, the thought of greasy finger-prints on my monitor.

As to the "lets put 3D peeps in the cockpit" crew...no way (unless i can tell them to get outta the way)

ned7777
07-21-2006, 12:01 PM
Clickable cockpits is overrated in my opinon. Its much easier to hit a key than to try and find a control with your mouse in the heat of battle.

If you want it to look real then make a cockpit panel at home and use it instead of a keyboard, wouldnt be too hard.[/quote]


but what if you were lysdexic

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 12:04 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

msalama
07-21-2006, 01:47 PM
OK, not clickable, but controllable. That is, all important AC subsystems are on your direct responsibility. You screw up, and the crate quits on you, or doesn't start... how about that?

Would love to see at least the following:

* Fuel management
* Heating & de-ice
* Electricals
* Hydraulics
* Navaids
* Comms (properly done this time!)

In addition to what we have already (mixture, RPM, mags etc.). But then again, I'm a nerd http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What U say?

Akronnick
07-21-2006, 02:16 PM
but what if you were lysdexic
What if you're Raaaid?

PBNA-Boosher
07-21-2006, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
The second my instrumentation is blocked by my virtual right forearm when I apply full left stick is the second I stop playing the sim

If 6DOF support is added for everyone, even without TrackIR, then it shouldn't be an issue, should it?

Chuck_Older
07-21-2006, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
The second my instrumentation is blocked by my virtual right forearm when I apply full left stick is the second I stop playing the sim

If 6DOF support is added for everyone, even without TrackIR, then it shouldn't be an issue, should it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless 6DOF allows you to actually change the posture of your body, I can't see how the issue goes away

Chuck_Older
07-21-2006, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Von_Rat:
The second my instrumentation is blocked by my virtual right forearm when I apply full left stick is the second I stop playing the sim
__________________________________________________

bob will have 6dof, if your arm is blocking gauge just move your head a little. like you would in real life.

But in real life I use much more body mechanics than just moving my head. Moving my head a little is only part of the equation. Try it yourself in your car. You don't just move your head. I can dip my right shoulder and my whole torso bends to the right. I can still incline turn and angle my head. I can also lean forward and duck my head down to see something down low. I've never used 6DOF but as I understand it, it changes the angle, orientation, and inclination of a virtual head, fixed in space. Three axes, positive and negative, therefore 6 degrees of Freedom is what I assume

But does 6DOF allow body mechanics to change the pilot's body? The body will be a rigid, cadaver-like lump pasted into the cockpit taking up space. You can't alter where the body is placed using 6DOF, can you? All you could ever do is change perspective from a fixed point, correct? Pay close attention to how your body mechanics plays a part in doing anything and how you shift your body without even realising it. It's so second nature that I think some folks may be missing my point

squadldr76
07-21-2006, 03:56 PM
Probably the biggest thing I'd like to see is mechanical failures. After reading several books on pilots, I remember that machanical failures happened once in a while. Imagine being the lead, taking off, and forming up wondering if that sound you hear is the engine running rough. So, now the decision presents itself: should I stay and run the risk or head home and pass off the mission to the others?

Of course, I'm sure there are those who wouldn't like that. Just turn it off.

I think realistic encounter chances would be neat too. I'd experience a lot of tension if I flew two or three missions without seeing a single opponent. Then the following mission, having my heart leap into my throat when I looked up and saw a flight barreling down on me.

Von_Rat
07-21-2006, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
The second my instrumentation is blocked by my virtual right forearm when I apply full left stick is the second I stop playing the sim
__________________________________________________

bob will have 6dof, if your arm is blocking gauge just move your head a little. like you would in real life.

But in real life I use much more body mechanics than just moving my head. Moving my head a little is only part of the equation. Try it yourself in your car. You don't just move your head. I can dip my right shoulder and my whole torso bends to the right. I can still incline turn and angle my head. I can also lean forward and duck my head down to see something down low. I've never used 6DOF but as I understand it, it changes the angle, orientation, and inclination of a virtual head, fixed in space. Three axes, positive and negative, therefore 6 degrees of Freedom is what I assume

But does 6DOF allow body mechanics to change the pilot's body? The body will be a rigid, cadaver-like lump pasted into the cockpit taking up space. You can't alter where the body is placed using 6DOF, can you? All you could ever do is change perspective from a fixed point, correct? Pay close attention to how your body mechanics plays a part in doing anything and how you shift your body without even realising it. It's so second nature that I think some folks may be missing my point </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


all very true,,, but all that doesnt matter as long as you can see the gauges. which you'll be able to do simply by changing your viewpoint.

carguy_
07-21-2006, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Jokes aside, I personally wish I wasn't wearing my stealth suit while sitting in the cockpit. It would add realism to see legs and feet and a hand on the stick.


You represent only one of few concepts of virtual cockpit modelling.

I represent the other.I say no body in the cockpit.If this cannot be an option then the concept that suits majority should prevail.
I don`t have TRIR or 6DOF but I get by perfectly with numpad looking around.LOMAC doesn`t have that hence it`s unplayable for me.

Maybe I imagine things wrong but first off I don`t think adding additional fps hit human body into the cockpit enhances realism nor it is practical.

Second,I do not want the body parts to obscure ANY parts of the cockpit.As I don`t have 6DOF,forcing me into learning looking around all over again because of somebody`s taste is just plain bad.I don`t have to think of what numpad buttons I hit when I look around.It would be a nightmare for non-6DOFers to be forced to hit a separate button in a dogfight just to view their instruments.
Yes,I know some people liked to play with manual prop pitch in the heat of DF but that`s a minority.

Third,I just don`t need the body because the cockpit itself fulfills my satisfaction of viewing the cockpit as a whole WWII warbird instrument panel.




I would also like to see oil on the 109 windshield from the outside, just for realism.

Oh I bet that`s already covered.Although I`d like to know NOW if Oleg implemented the anti black screen device fitted in Me109s.




Why not have some grass and debris fly around the cockpit when powering up on a grassy runway?


Don`t worry it`s visible you`re not around too often.Oleg replied that it is too resource-hogging.As an example he gave the smoke in FB that appears just after you start the engine.FPS drop is more than noticable.8 plane coops show this even better.The basic sand-screen implemented in IIRC 3.04 also takes FPS away.
Now imagine the debris you`re talkin bout being 4-5 times detailed that in FB.



What about bailing incorrectly and getting wiped out by the tail? That happened.


Ofcourse I agree although that "feature" should not be implemented until a proper pilot bailout modelling is created.With this feaure in FB we would have 15% succesful bailouts MAYBE.



Imagine a first person view as you are bailing and seeing your wounded plane drift away from you.

IMO entirely not needed.



Imagine pressing Ctrl+F and your virtual self flips the one finger salute to your enemy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I see more and more people like crossing flight sims with FPP games.I don`t understand that phenomenon.




Refuelling and rearming!!! That happened!!!!!

Ofcourse but only with realistic refuel/rearm times.



Random mechanical failures!!!! They happened!!!

Sorry,I don`t think that will happen although making this customizeable would be great.In FB Oleg was forced by the community to get rid of that feature.Won`t count how many times I read "WTF Oleg I hate you!!!!" online.

Von_Rat
07-21-2006, 11:40 PM
As I don`t have 6DOF,forcing me into learning looking around all over again because of somebody`s taste is just plain bad.I don`t have to think of what numpad buttons I hit when I look around.It would be a nightmare for non-6DOFers to be forced to hit a separate button in a dogfight just to view their instruments.
__________________________________________________ ___________

if you don't want to be at a disadvantage in dogfight, even without body, you'll have to learn new buttons so you can move your head to see better behind you, under your nose, around cockpit bars, etc.