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View Full Version : Do you believe in Ghosts? And if so, why?



MB_Avro_UK
03-18-2008, 05:33 PM
Hi all,

I have a ghost story from personal experience but I'm not convinced.

Do any of you have an experience that you'd like to share?

This link relates to 'ghostly' British airbases.

http://www.paranormaldatabase.com/aviation/pages/avdata.php


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

roybaty
03-18-2008, 05:48 PM
When I work late or over the weekend when no one's around I've heard weird things now and again at the office where I work (It's a small old mill building). Pretty sure it's just my mind playing tricks, but I've been spooked a few times. One time I swear I heard someone whisper "Don't leave" as I was setting the alarm. Needless to say I left a tad more hastily than usual. Other times I swear I hear someone walking up or down the stairs.

Even with these experiences I'm skeptical, but can't rule out the existence of spirits, ghosts, etc.

Crazy_Goanna
03-18-2008, 06:18 PM
One night a few years ago I was asleep in bed , my then young (5yr old) daughter had come into my bed hours before, we both awoke at roughly the same time, it was in the middle of the night.
I looked over to the side of the bed and saw a bluish glowing human form standing there, a head ,body and tapering off into what I thought later was a floor length gown of sorts. I motioned to Lucy to turn around, as she was facing me, and said quietly 'have a look over there, behind you' to which she replied 'who is that?' I replied possibly a spirit to which she said 'cool' and then the form just faded away.
The previous owner of this building had been an elderly lady who I found out later had passed away in the next room.
There was no strange energy in the room at the time and I had a thought later that the form was just there observing the present occupants.

Seems to verify to me that spirits actually do exist but make up your own inferences to this!

MB_Avro_UK
03-18-2008, 06:20 PM
Hi all,

I live in the UK and used to own a house that was about 200 years old. I was away with my family for the day and some friends called at the house whilst we were away.

Our friends could hear children running up and down the stairs and shouting.(The stairs were close to the front door). Our friends called through the letter box as there was no reply to the doorbell.

It was an empty house.

Sometimes, our pet dogs refused to climb the stairs.

Weird http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

SeaFireLIV
03-18-2008, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by roybaty:
One time I swear I heard someone whisper "Don't leave" as I was setting the alarm. Needless to say I left a tad more hastily than usual.

That is certainly creepy. I used to work in security in my early days and in one of my first `posts` i had to sit and patrol in this empty old warehouse at the edge of the city. Why? I have no idea since it seemed no one used it -ever. I had to stay there from 19:00 till 07:00 in the morning.

The scariest spooky time was always at around 02.00 to 03.00 am where i could swear i was being observed by someone really close. There was that horrible moment when PANIC wanted to grab my legs and make me leave. But then I pull on my cap and tell myself I`m hear to do a job and no spook was going to scare me off! After all what can they do except look scary?!

Later, i heard that at least one new security guard had left in the middle of the night because they couldn`t handle it. it was a kind of test for new guys!

Point is, I believe that our own heightened senses and imagination can make us think that there are spooks where there are none.

That said, there`s no way that i`d say there are no such thing as ghosts. I think they`re there...

Airmail109
03-18-2008, 06:27 PM
You know the Belgian paras are taught not to look at the back of your head whilst their creeping up to slit your throat, as apparently people can sense it.

Another odd one.

MB_Avro_UK
03-18-2008, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
You know the Belgian paras are taught not to look at the back of your head whilst their creeping up to slit your throat, as apparently people can sense it.

Another odd one.

Maybe the AI in il2 have the same instinct http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

foxyboy1964
03-18-2008, 06:37 PM
OK, here we go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I have no personal experience of such things and I'm quite happy about that. However, I do have relatives who sold a house because of something they saw.

They are quite well off, sober and have no religious beliefs of any kind. Back in the early 80's they bought a nice converted farmhouse near a town called Kirkintilloch on the outskrts of Glasgow. At that time their daughter was about 8 or 9 years old.

Within a few days of moving in, the daughter asked her parents who the old woman was whom she had seen moving about the rooms upstairs. My cousin and her husband, of course, didn't pay much attention, thinking that the daughter had been dreaming or was playing childish games or whatever.

A couple of nights later the adults were going to bed. As they got to the landing at the top of the stairs they both saw an old lady, dressed in night clothes, coming out of their daughters room and walking into another room. They both $hit themselves, got their daughter out of bed, grabbed a few belongings, jumped into the car and headed for my aunts house where they stayed until they had sold their own house and got a new one. They had been in the house for just over one week.

When they put the house up for sale the estate agent told them that they weren't the first people to see something in that house.

Now, like I said, I have no experience of such things. I also don't think that they are a couple of liars. I believe they saw something, they certainly believe they saw something. Who knows what it was?

Warrington_Wolf
03-18-2008, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
You know the Belgian paras are taught not to look at the back of your head whilst their creeping up to slit your throat, as apparently people can sense it.

Another odd one. I've heard similar stories to that quite a few times and it involves many armed forces, for example the Army and numerous Air Forces, but I've never heard this story involving the Navy though.
I have never had a paranormal experience (UFO, Ghost, NDE or Loch Ness Monster sightings) but I have always had a massive interest in all aspects of the paranormal and I avidly read any local stories on the matter.
I know of quite a lot of local places that are supposed to he haunted, top of the list is a place called Bewsey Old Hall. If you asked any inhabitant from Warrington to name a place that was haunted it would be top of the list. Myself and several friends wanted to spend the night there but we couldn't get permission because certain parts are unsafe. Another place that myself and the same bunch of friends want to look at is Burtonwood airbase, because that too has a bit of a reputation and because my mates know of my interest in WW2 and they figure that it may come in useful.
I am very open minded on the matter and I do believe that there are things that science cannot explain AT THIS TIME (but may be able to explain at a later date when the technology is available).

SeaFireLIV
03-18-2008, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
You know the Belgian paras are taught not to look at the back of your head whilst their creeping up to slit your throat, as apparently people can sense it.

Another odd one.

wow. that`s absolutely fascinating. And I believe it too!

VW-IceFire
03-18-2008, 09:35 PM
Whenever these threads come up...I keep saying it. Some really weird stuff happens. I myself have had a sense or a feeling of something that happened later or was happening somewhere else. I usually forget all about it and then I find out later...its weird. I know that this happens to allot of people...some refuse to admit it but weird stuff happens.

So ghosts...spirits...I'll always be skeptical but I have no need to discover or discount things either way. Lots of things are jumbled around up in our brains too...often in times where the senses have a lack of information to grab on to (sound, sight, activity) your brain cranks them up to the highest levels of human alertness...it spooks us out but it may just be stuff thats always happening (a creek, a slight motion in the building, etc.) and we never notice it. I don't know.

Like I said...

huggy87
03-18-2008, 09:37 PM
I look at ghosts like I look at religion. I won't discount it, but until I personally experience it I will not believe.

huggy87
03-18-2008, 09:51 PM
Having just said the above, I remembered the closest brush I ever had with the "unexplained".

My extended family built a cabin in the northern california wilderness the same year I was born. I have been going to this place, literally, since I was a baby. It is on a beautiful little remote lake that has a small campgrounds and only about a dozen other cabins on it.

I've explored just about every square inch of the terrain within a few miles of that lake, but there is one place I will not go back. There is a spring a few miles away from the lake, it is even more remote than the lake. I was there hiking alone when I was 18 and felt the same sense of dread that seafire described above. I hightailed it back to my car. I couldn't explain the foreboding, I just felt it. At the time I reasoned that maybe I had a cougar stalking me.

Two years later, I went to the same area with my girlfriend at the time. About a half hour into our hike we both became real nervous, and practically ran back to the car.

I put all of the above out of my mind until about 5 years later when I heard my mom describing the place to someone. The conversation was in no way prompted by me, yet she was describing the same sense of dread to her sister. I couldn't believe it. She is also a pragmatic agnostic and not prone to hysteria.

Who knows, I wonder now if there was some kind of psychic energy or horrible misdeed commited in that area. Indians have been around there for 10,000 years, and whites for the last 200 years. Who knows.

Jambock_Dolfo
03-18-2008, 11:06 PM
There is a good saying in Spanish about this, and it goes something like

"Yo no creo en brujas pero que las hay... las hay."

That pretty much sums it up for me.


-dolfo

WTE_Googly
03-19-2008, 02:50 AM
Hello all

Was just reading this thread and it got me thinking about something I had read many years ago in an Alfred Hitchcock story: The affect of sound waves. I'll just add something I found on Wikipedia (sorry I can't come up with a more reliable source at the moment, but I know I have come across writings of the same phenomena before)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound


Human reactions to infrasound
Infrasound has been known to cause feelings of awe or fear in humans.[9] Since it is not consciously perceived, it can make people feel vaguely that supernatural events are taking place.

Some film soundtracks make use of infrasound to produce unease or disorientation in the audience. Irréversible is one such movie.

In music, Brian "Lustmord" Williams is known to utilize infrasound to create these same feelings.


[edit] Infrasonic 17 Hz tone experiment
On May 31, 2003, a team of UK researchers held a mass experiment where they exposed some 700 people to music laced with soft 17 Hz sine waves played at a level described as "near the edge of hearing", produced by an extra-long stroke sub-woofer mounted two-thirds of the way from the end of a seven-meter-long plastic sewer pipe. The experimental concert (entitled Infrasonic) took place in the Purcell Room over the course of two performances each consisting of four musical pieces. Two of the pieces in each concert had 17 Hz tones played underneath. In the second concert, the pieces that were to carry a 17 Hz undertone were swapped so that test results wouldn't focus on any specific musical piece. The participants were not told which pieces included the low-level 17 Hz near-infrasonic tone. The presence of the tone resulted in a significant number (22%) of respondents reporting anxiety, uneasiness, extreme sorrow, nervous feelings of revulsion or fear, chills down the spine and feelings of pressure on the chest.[10][11] In presenting the evidence to the BA, the scientist responsible said "These results suggest that low frequency sound can cause people to have unusual experiences even though they cannot consciously detect infrasound. Some scientists have suggested that this level of sound may be present at some allegedly haunted sites and so cause people to have odd sensations that they attribute to a ghost"”our findings support these ideas".


[edit] The Ghost in the Machine
Research by the late Vic Tandy, a lecturer at Coventry University, suggested that the frequency 19 hertz was responsible for many ghost sightings. He was working late one night alone in a supposedly haunted laboratory at Warwick, when he felt very anxious, and could detect a grey blob out of the corner of his eye. When he turned to face it, there was nothing.

The following day, he was working on his fencing foil, with the handle held in a vice. Although there was nothing touching it, it started to vibrate wildly. Further investigation led him to discover that the extraction fan was emitting a frequency of 18.98 Hz, very close to the resonant frequency of the eye (given as 18 Hz in NASA Technical Report 19770013810). This was why he saw a ghostly figure "” it was an optical illusion caused by his eyeballs resonating. The room was exactly half a wavelength in length, and the desk was in the centre, thus causing a standing wave which was detected by the foil. [12]

Vic investigated this phenomenon further, and wrote a paper entitled The Ghost in the Machine. He carried out a number of investigations at various sites believed to be haunted, including the basement of the Tourist Information Bureau next to Coventry Cathedral [13] and Edinburgh Castle. [14][15]



It was the Huggy87 story which got me thinking about it.

Also regarding Crazy Goanna's story (sorry about calling these stories, I'm not doubting what you saw or anything, just can't think of a better word right now) apparantly when awaking from deep sleep you 'see things'. I know this is true because I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and see a fecking huge spider or centipede on the wall next to me, which turned out isn't really there (I usually get out of bed and turn the light on, thats how believeable it is). However this does not explain the fact that your daughter saw it too...

Don't take this the wrong way, I say again I'm not doubting anything anyone has seen/felt, just trying to add something to think about.

I'm lucky enough not to have had any supernatural experiances, and would quite like it to stay that way thank you very much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ultraHun
03-19-2008, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by huggy87:
Having just said the above, I remembered the closest brush I ever had with the "unexplained".

My extended family built a cabin in the northern california wilderness the same year I was born. I have been going to this place, literally, since I was a baby. It is on a beautiful little remote lake that has a small campgrounds and only about a dozen other cabins on it.

I've explored just about every square inch of the terrain within a few miles of that lake, but there is one place I will not go back. There is a spring a few miles away from the lake, it is even more remote than the lake. I was there hiking alone when I was 18 and felt the same sense of dread that seafire described above. I hightailed it back to my car. I couldn't explain the foreboding, I just felt it. At the time I reasoned that maybe I had a cougar stalking me.

Two years later, I went to the same area with my girlfriend at the time. About a half hour into our hike we both became real nervous, and practically ran back to the car.

I put all of the above out of my mind until about 5 years later when I heard my mom describing the place to someone. The conversation was in no way prompted by me, yet she was describing the same sense of dread to her sister. I couldn't believe it. She is also a pragmatic agnostic and not prone to hysteria.

Who knows, I wonder now if there was some kind of psychic energy or horrible misdeed commited in that area. Indians have been around there for 10,000 years, and whites for the last 200 years. Who knows.

Just an idea, is it probably along the San Andreas rift? - as for the cougar: could it be that there are things we do not smell as such, but are still subconsciously aware of?

Whirlin_merlin
03-19-2008, 04:43 AM
I believe the human nervous system is very good at misinterpreting stimuli.

ffb
03-19-2008, 05:48 AM
My brother owns a large old farmhouse in the country...and at one time in its life the stairs led the opposite way....down to what is now the back of the house where there was a door, now bricked off. Sitting together with his wife one evening, the three of us heard what sounded like someone running down the stairs and then the banging of a door being slammed shut...where the old door had been...
they said they had heard things quite often

As a buddhist I believe ghosts or spirits are those beings which have died but either live in a confused state, maybe not knowing they have died, such as those killed violently or quickly as in an accident, and so have yet to take re-birth according to their karma.......or people who were very attached to a place or belongings or something, which causes them to be unable to leave, and get on with their next existence.

Bremspropeller
03-19-2008, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by huggy87:
I look at ghosts like I look at religion. I won't discount it, but until I personally experience it I will not believe.

+1

Inadaze
03-19-2008, 07:09 AM
As a kid I lived in a 200+ year old house in the country, late at night I remember being terrified by footsteps that slowly went up the stairs and along the landing to stop outside my bedroom door. (I heard it on a few occasions, usually if I had woken up in the middle of the night.)

I was positive the place was haunted, but as an adult looking back on it, I think it was the mixture of the old timbers in the house settling as the building cooled through the night and my over-active childish imagination.

Last year, I woke up with a shock and could feel someone holding my hand that was dangling out of the bed, a human shaped silhouette seemed to be standing over me, and as the feeling of my hand being held disappeared the shadow seemed to move to the base of my bed and it too quickly faded away. Was it a ghost? Personally I think it was an effect of my mind abruptly waking from a dreaming state and for a brief second the memory of whatever dream I was having was imposed on reality.

Do I believe in ghosts? I don't think I do, not in a spiritual sense anyway, but ghost stories still fascinate me. It's more a curiosity of wanting to explain the unexplained in a logical and scientific manner.

raaaid
03-19-2008, 07:49 AM
its no creo en las brujas pero haberlas haylas

if i saw a ghost id discarded as an hallucination not much of a proof

Friendly_flyer
03-19-2008, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
if i saw a ghost id discarded as an hallucination not much of a proof

You're actually a sceptic! You never cease to surprise me, Raaaid.

My father use to say "There are more between Heaven and Earth than most other places". Very wise man, my father. Perhaps there are things out there scaring the wits out of people, but I very much doubt they are ghosts in the traditional sense.

SeaFireLIV
03-19-2008, 09:03 AM
It makes me wonder though. It seems a bit far-fetched to think that all these sightings and situations reported by people who have no reason to lie are all just in the brain mixed with wild imagination and self-inducing fear.

If that is the case, then the human brain is quite `broken`.

No, I reckon we like to say `I don`t believe` that which we can`t explain, because it scares and unnerves us. we would have to ask `What`s going on in the beyond?` What really happens at the end of our lives? We are all on a limited time frame and the fact that we may one day have to face IT, scares the **** out of us all.

They are also very difficult to grasp or get evidence of to prove anything.

So it`s best just not to believe.

I don`t blame people. Scares the heck outta me too...

gorillasika
03-19-2008, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Inadaze:
Last year, I woke up with a shock and could feel someone holding my hand that was dangling out of the bed, a human shaped silhouette seemed to be standing over me, and as the feeling of my hand being held disappeared the shadow seemed to move to the base of my bed and it too quickly faded away. Was it a ghost? Personally I think it was an effect of my mind abruptly waking from a dreaming state and for a brief second the memory of whatever dream I was having was imposed on reality.

I just had to reply to this. Last year I had the exactly same experience.
Me waking up in the middle of the night to the feeling that somebody was holding my hand. When opening eyes, for a brief moment I saw a brownish figure hovering over my bed. I remember, that I yelled faintly, but as I woke up completely the figure disappeared.
I'm in the same lines as you, especially now reading that you've had the same experience. Maybe my hand was in an awkward position, and my body wanted to wake me up. In a moment maybe, still half sleeping the reality got confused with dreams.

Inadaze
03-19-2008, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by gorillasika:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inadaze:
Last year, I woke up with a shock and could feel someone holding my hand that was dangling out of the bed, a human shaped silhouette seemed to be standing over me, and as the feeling of my hand being held disappeared the shadow seemed to move to the base of my bed and it too quickly faded away. Was it a ghost? Personally I think it was an effect of my mind abruptly waking from a dreaming state and for a brief second the memory of whatever dream I was having was imposed on reality.

I just had to reply to this. Last year I had the exactly same experience.
Me waking up in the middle of the night to the feeling that somebody was holding my hand. When opening eyes, for a brief moment I saw a brownish figure hovering over my bed. I remember, that I yelled faintly, but as I woke up completely the figure disappeared.
I'm in the same lines as you, especially now reading that you've had the same experience. Maybe my hand was in an awkward position, and my body wanted to wake me up. In a moment maybe, still half sleeping the reality got confused with dreams. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I've a mate who used to suffer night terrors, he'd wake up paralysed, feeling as if something very evil was nearby with a weight pushing down on his chest. He'd also sleepwalk and once woke up to find himself holding his wife against the wall by the throat ready to punch her! He got really scared of sleeping and even slept in a seperate room to his wife for a while because he didn't want it to happen again. The line between dreaming and conciousness seems sometimes to get a bit fuzzy...

I know if something exciting happens to me I sometimes dream of it very vividly and wake up suddenly (often in a shakey sweat) feeling as if I was replaying whatever incident I had been dreaming about. Usually it's after I've been fishing and caught a big carp or barbel, and I wake up bolt upright from the adrenaline rush, with my arms flailing about trying to grab my fishing rod. Sometimes the feeling is very vivid and when I wake up I can still remember the feeling of holding the rod or whatever had been happening when I dreamt it.

BTW your description is almost exactly as I remember mine, the figure seemed a brownish sillouette, and I think I woke up with a yell.

MOH_MADMAN
03-19-2008, 10:18 AM
want a good chill,
go hike the Superstition Mountains in AZ. they freak everybody out!

Covino
03-19-2008, 10:34 AM
I don't believe it, I can't help but apply physics to everything and with ghosts, nothing even comes close to making sense.
The ability to go through walls and people while still being able to interact with doors, touch people, and make physical sounds is unbelievable to put it nicely.
The fact that people would like to believe in an afterlife discredits the idea of ghosts even more.
Hallucination or misinterpretation just seems like the more likely answer.

roybaty
03-19-2008, 01:36 PM
Sounds like sleep paralysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis , I have it occasionally when I'm stressed.


Originally posted by Inadaze:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gorillasika:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inadaze:
Last year, I woke up with a shock and could feel someone holding my hand that was dangling out of the bed, a human shaped silhouette seemed to be standing over me, and as the feeling of my hand being held disappeared the shadow seemed to move to the base of my bed and it too quickly faded away. Was it a ghost? Personally I think it was an effect of my mind abruptly waking from a dreaming state and for a brief second the memory of whatever dream I was having was imposed on reality.

I just had to reply to this. Last year I had the exactly same experience.
Me waking up in the middle of the night to the feeling that somebody was holding my hand. When opening eyes, for a brief moment I saw a brownish figure hovering over my bed. I remember, that I yelled faintly, but as I woke up completely the figure disappeared.
I'm in the same lines as you, especially now reading that you've had the same experience. Maybe my hand was in an awkward position, and my body wanted to wake me up. In a moment maybe, still half sleeping the reality got confused with dreams. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I've a mate who used to suffer night terrors, he'd wake up paralysed, feeling as if something very evil was nearby with a weight pushing down on his chest. He'd also sleepwalk and once woke up to find himself holding his wife against the wall by the throat ready to punch her! He got really scared of sleeping and even slept in a seperate room to his wife for a while because he didn't want it to happen again. The line between dreaming and conciousness seems sometimes to get a bit fuzzy...

I know if something exciting happens to me I sometimes dream of it very vividly and wake up suddenly (often in a shakey sweat) feeling as if I was replaying whatever incident I had been dreaming about. Usually it's after I've been fishing and caught a big carp or barbel, and I wake up bolt upright from the adrenaline rush, with my arms flailing about trying to grab my fishing rod. Sometimes the feeling is very vivid and when I wake up I can still remember the feeling of holding the rod or whatever had been happening when I dreamt it.

BTW your description is almost exactly as I remember mine, the figure seemed a brownish sillouette, and I think I woke up with a yell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whirlin_merlin
03-19-2008, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
It makes me wonder though. It seems a bit far-fetched to think that all these sightings and situations reported by people who have no reason to lie are all just in the brain mixed with wild imagination and self-inducing fear.

If that is the case, then the human brain is quite `broken`.



Our brains are very good at filling in the gaps, normally this is a very good thing as most of the time the human brain does avery good job and we wouldn't get far without this ability. Sometimes though it can make mistakes, optical illusions illustrate this nicely. And I mean rarely, yes lots of people have had a ghostly experience but those add upto a few minutes out of the total years of a persons existance (which are ghost free).
So I'm not saying that the brain is broken but sometimes it gets it wrong, we just tend to remember when it does.

SeaFireLIV
03-19-2008, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Whirlin_merlin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
It makes me wonder though. It seems a bit far-fetched to think that all these sightings and situations reported by people who have no reason to lie are all just in the brain mixed with wild imagination and self-inducing fear.

If that is the case, then the human brain is quite `broken`.



Our brains are very good at filling in the gaps, normally this is a very good thing as most of the time the human brain does avery good job and we wouldn't get far without this ability. Sometimes though it can make mistakes, optical illusions illustrate this nicely. And I mean rarely, yes lots of people have had a ghostly experience but those add upto a few minutes out of the total years of a persons existance (which are ghost free).
So I'm not saying that the brain is broken but sometimes it gets it wrong, we just tend to remember when it does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I`ve heard all of this before, Whirlin_merlin and while I think a lot of this is indeed true, I don`t believe it accounts for everything. Often, like in most things of this type it`s a bit of everything. the trick is knowing exactly what and that`s the problem. It always makes me chuckle though when people `solve` an entire phenomenon with logic such as this, yet they still don`t really know.

But it does make the world feel less `unstable`.

TheGozr
03-19-2008, 02:58 PM
Ghosts maybe.... but i'm sure many of you guys with LCD's are Ghosting!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Friendly_flyer
03-19-2008, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
It makes me wonder though. It seems a bit far-fetched to think that all these sightings and situations reported by people who have no reason to lie are all just in the brain mixed with wild imagination and self-inducing fear.

(snipp)

we would have to ask `What`s going on in the beyond?` What really happens at the end of our lives?


I'm not quite sure I agree with you there, SeaFire. Let's for the sake of the argument say that there is something causing people to feel they have seen ghosts. Does that something necessarily have to have anything to do with an afterlife? If this X-factor is causing people to experience something, it must do so via our senses, i.e. it must be something physical (as our senses are all based on physical stimuli of various sorts). Reason dictates that if it is physical, it is part of the physical world, not some non-physical existence beyond our reach.

I'm not saying that observations of ghosts are all caused by a faulty brain. However, if there are "ghosts", they are a result of a physical phenomenon, and quite likely has nothing to do with the explanations commonly attributed to them. Anything that can impact the natural world (that we are a part of) is by it's nature also a part of it, not something "supernatural".

Messaschnitzel
03-19-2008, 03:31 PM
Around 1978, A friend and I were hired by the local veterinarian to remove a fence from some property that he had leased to keep horses on. He gave us instructions to go to the main house to let them know why and what we were there for.

This rural property was called the Vedanta Retreat, and was located in Olema, CA. This place was really weird. We drove onto the place with a flatbed truck, and went up to the house. This house looked like it was straight out of the Addams Family. I said, "You wanna do the honors?" my friend said, "Better you than me."

All righty, then. So I go to this big door and knock. The door opened a little, and I had to look up to see this bald headed guy peering around from behind the door. Unless this fella was standing on a ladder, he had to be around 7' tall! I stated our reason for being there. He whispered, "All right." and then shut the door. I went back to the truck, and told my friend what happened. He said that he saw the whole thing. He said that he was glad he had his pistol in the truck, and that he was going to wear it the whole time while he was working there.

We drove out to where the corral was started tearing it down. I never shook the feeling that we were being watched. I didn't suspect that we were being watched, I knew we were being watched from the treeline around the hills that surrounded the little valley that we were pulling up the fence and posts in. I didn't say anything, because I knew that he would razz me for it.

At some point during the first day, my friend threw down his shovel, and exclaimed, "GAWDAMMIT!, I know there's somebody up there looking at me. I can feel it on the back of my head!" (Being 17 at the time, I could only think of that he was the one to break first. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif)

Anyway, the job took a couple of days. About 10 years later, I spoke with someone who had dealings with the folks from the Vedanta Society. He said that we were right about people being up in the woods there, because a lot of members would go there to get away from it all, and a lot of them were a bit strange. So, the moral of this story is that the hills really do have eyes! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I know that when I hunt, I make sure not to focus too long on the game. Sometimes they will sense something wrong, especially if they are within a short distance. I have had deer bolt away when I messed around too long for a shot, and this is being downwind of them. If the angle or situation isn't good, I'll drop my focus, look away at something else and think nice thoughts until they shift into a better position for a shot.

Whirlin_merlin
03-19-2008, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:

I`ve heard all of this before, Whirlin_merlin and while I think a lot of this is indeed true, I don`t believe it accounts for everything. Often, like in most things of this type it`s a bit of everything. the trick is knowing exactly what and that`s the problem. It always makes me chuckle though when people `solve` an entire phenomenon with logic such as this, yet they still don`t really know.

But it does make the world feel less `unstable`.

Oh I don't claim to solve the entire phenomenon with logic such as that.
Just pointing out that personnel experience can be misleading.
One piece of solid evidence and I would happily believe in ghosts, the soul, an afterlife.
It would be rather apealing to believe in something beyond death.
However the only evidence we have is the sorts of experiences related in this thread which I don't think are concrete enough to acept such a huge implication.

To continue in your vein it always makes me chuckle when faced with an enigma people resort to a supernatural explination when they still don't really know.

Yes there is a hint of sarcasm above but it's meant in a good natured way.

On similar lines I did a lesson today on how science works. I gave the student sealed containers containing mystery objects, they had to gather what evidence they could about the unseen contents to build a theory of what was inside. The kicker was at the end I didn't tell them if they were right, the box stayed sealed they never knew what was really inside.

MB_Avro_UK
03-19-2008, 05:40 PM
Hi all,

Here's a bit of parental wisdom. As a kid I often feared ghosts. My mother used to say,'You have more to fear from the living than the dead'.

That's true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

ffb
03-19-2008, 05:56 PM
Just like a radio can tune into a certain range of frequencies and get whatever is being broadcast on them..... we can tune in to certain frequencies and see ghosts....or they can adjust their frequency of vibrations and allow us tobecome aware of them...whilst most of he time we and they exist alongside each other, but being at different vibrational frequencies not be aware of each other

and when two people in the same place but only one can see the ghost, the other doesn't have his frequency attuned to that of the ghost

being affected by drugs or alcohol or in meditation or in pain and maybe dying, all these can affect our vibrational frequency and give us extra ordinary perception

hotspace
03-20-2008, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

Here's a bit of parental wisdom. As a kid I often feared ghosts. My mother used to say,'You have more to fear from the living than the dead'.

That's true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

I can vulch for that and that was just from my teachers at school http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif