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BueJack
05-02-2006, 04:30 PM
Is there a list of banned people that we can see.
It'll be nice to see who, when, why, and by whom.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

steve_v
05-02-2006, 05:16 PM
No such list exists.

Airmail109
05-02-2006, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by steve_v:
No such list exists.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Maple_Tiger
05-02-2006, 05:51 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif and mustard is da best.

LEBillfish
05-02-2006, 07:36 PM
Why?......is this an Amnesty International investigation?

DuxCorvan
05-03-2006, 07:32 AM
I want a list of hot chicks in the web who like chubby half-bald guys: who, when, how, phone number and nekked pik. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(Nekked pik of hot chick, not chubby lad...)

BueJack
05-03-2006, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Why?......is this an Amnesty International investigation?
Nah http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's the 'TRUTH AND RECONCILLIATION' commission http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Capt._Tenneal
05-03-2006, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif and mustard is da best.

LOL @ Maple_Tiger ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Mustard IS the best for me too. Fancy that, another mustard w/ spam guy.

major_setback
05-03-2006, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by BueJack:
Is there a list of banned people that we can see.
It'll be nice to see who, when, why, and by whom.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Do you mean as a kind of 'Banned Hall of Fame' (or rather infamy), or are you in favour of publicly humiliating the offenders.
If it's the second option, I'm all for it. I think their pictures should also be shown, and they should only be allowed back on the forums after a general vote by other forum members.
Banning should hurt, otherwise there's no point to it. We should be offered actual photo evidence of self harm before we allow offenders back here. This will serve two purposes, it will discourage repeat offences; and will generally be good entertainment for the rest of us. I think the vote should take the form of posting either a 'thumbs up' smilie or a 'thumbs down' smilie to indicate whether or not we approve of reinstatement.
Hail Ceasar!

http://www.smiling-faces.com/smilies/animated/caesar.gif

-HH- Beebop
05-03-2006, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BueJack:
Is there a list of banned people that we can see.
It'll be nice to see who, when, why, and by whom.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Do you mean as a kind of 'Banned Hall of Fame' (or rather infamy), or are you in favour of publicly humiliating the offenders.
If it's the second option, I'm all for it. I think their pictures should also be shown, and they should only be allowed back on the forums after a general vote by other forum members.
Banning should hurt, otherwise there's no point to it. We should be offered actual photo evidence of self harm before we allow offenders back here. This will serve two purposes, it will discourage repeat offences; and will generally be good entertainment for the rest of us. I think the vote should take the form of posting either a 'thumbs up' smilie or a 'thumbs down' smilie to indicate whether or not we approve of reinstatement.
Hail Ceasar!

http://www.smiling-faces.com/smilies/animated/caesar.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
or we could just have a finger/thumb cut off for each offense. After 10 offenses the'd have to use a chopstick in their teeth. they would get 32 more chances and then we'd have to start removing toes. By my calulations a single person could be banned 52 times before it would be nearly impossible to post.

Oh, excuse me, this is the 21st Century, not the 13th. sorry.

LEBillfish
05-03-2006, 08:29 PM
Actually Major Setback I am "guessing" that is not the point of this thread. To qualify what I'm about to say know for 4 years I moderated at one time even being the Sr. Op. of a few thousand character RPG of which I'd estimate 2,000+/- individual players over 5 years.....It ran 24/7, with at times up to 100 players online in real time chat, 9 channels including an "goof off/ooc channel" which was a circus un to itself and naturally a forum.

If I saw a question of "Is there a list of banned people that we can see.
It'll be nice to see who, when, why, and by whom.... "
Presented on the forum, it was usually meaning one thing........A player or players had decided they were going to Mod the Mods....Determine as though it's some democracy the one who shouts loudest gets more votes.....and check then debate bans.

Fact of the matter is I'd bet the Mod's here have a Sr.Mod/s who looks over their activity. In kind Ubi being the owner of the forum checks theirs...........Hopefully the Sr.Mod/Ubi would have this to say......

Though customers of our products this grants you no further rights past its use. All members of the forums are guests. The forums here a generous arena within utilizing our bandwidth to discuss the products Ubi produces.

All members are here "at will"....Meaning, at any time for any reason their ability to use the forums can be revoked. This is not a democracy, this is soley privately owned property of Ubisoft to do with at their discression.

Naturally however to not be unjust we have implimented a "flexible" ruleset. Meaning hard and fast rules that all members must abide by, and additionally rules that may be created at the moderators discression on a case by case basis to insure the forums are not abused from their intended purpose.

The moderators here were neither chosen by a membership popularity contest, or superior butt kissing abilities. They were selected by the forum management for their ability to weild the moderators authority responsibly. Due to the basic nature of those feeling slighted to question these individuals filling the said positions.....Know it is not up to vote, negotiation, or debate by the membership. They serve upon the forums because we asked them to, and that grants them the authority they need to maintain order.



How it is........So, if I'm mistaken great...If not, I sincerely hope they hold at "least" as firm a line.

Bans are between the Moderators and those who were banned. The end, and it should never be up to the review or consensus of the general membership.

Stigler_9_JG52
05-03-2006, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Actually Major Setback I am "guessing" that is not the point of this thread. To qualify what I'm about to say know for 4 years I moderated at one time even being the Sr. Op. of a few thousand character RPG of which I'd estimate 2,000+/- individual players over 5 years.....It ran 24/7, with at times up to 100 players online in real time chat, 9 channels including an "goof off/ooc channel" which was a circus un to itself and naturally a forum.

If I saw a question of "Is there a list of banned people that we can see.
It'll be nice to see who, when, why, and by whom.... "
Presented on the forum, it was usually meaning one thing........A player or players had decided they were going to Mod the Mods....Determine as though it's some democracy the one who shouts loudest gets more votes.....and check then debate bans.

Fact of the matter is I'd bet the Mod's here have a Sr.Mod/s who looks over their activity. In kind Ubi being the owner of the forum checks theirs...........Hopefully the Sr.Mod/Ubi would have this to say......

Though customers of our products this grants you no further rights past its use. All members of the forums are guests. The forums here a generous arena within utilizing our bandwidth to discuss the products Ubi produces.

All members are here "at will"....Meaning, at any time for any reason their ability to use the forums can be revoked. This is not a democracy, this is soley privately owned property of Ubisoft to do with at their discression.

Naturally however to not be unjust we have implimented a "flexible" ruleset. Meaning hard and fast rules that all members must abide by, and additionally rules that may be created at the moderators discression on a case by case basis to insure the forums are not abused from their intended purpose.

The moderators here were neither chosen by a membership popularity contest, or superior butt kissing abilities. They were selected by the forum management for their ability to weild the moderators authority responsibly. Due to the basic nature of those feeling slighted to question these individuals filling the said positions.....Know it is not up to vote, negotiation, or debate by the membership. They serve upon the forums because we asked them to, and that grants them the authority they need to maintain order.



How it is........So, if I'm mistaken great...If not, I sincerely hope they hold at "least" as firm a line.

Bans are between the Moderators and those who were banned. The end, and it should never be up to the review or consensus of the general membership.

Yeah, our mod crew is real responsible.... they can go in and add a sarcastic message to your avatar for grins and giggles (one that you have to wear in the forums and cannot edit or manage yourself) and face no repercussions.

I have to say your little treatise on "rights" is a rather weak and pathetic defense of what is basically totalitarianism. I find it amazing that people who are the first to wave red, white & blue flags and proclaim how proud they are to be "'Murrican" are also the first to take a "love it or leave it" stance and to be totally intolerant of any other viewpoint or ideology than their own. That's decidedly un-American.

They actively FEAR free speech, debate, and exchange of ideas (unless they happen to agree with the idea). And their poor moderating policies are proof of it. Only SimHQ (on certain forums) is worse. Locking of threads that are merely critical of Ubi, or Oleg, or the sim is the worst and most common abuse. It's pure thought policing, since many of the threads are often on-target, and don't contain anything remotely "offensive".

Here's where the rubber meets the road: the mods should aggressively stamp out posts that contain over the top profanity, threats aimed at other members, things like pornography, hacking/piracy and anything illegal or that would open Ubi up to legal trouble.... outside of that, anything should be fair game.

Or, if you can't agree to that, at least be balanced and consistent. Start "rounding up" all the "this is the best sim ever" threads and combine them into one, single "b*ttkiss fanboi" thread; then padlock the others; that's the treatment usually given to threads that are critical of some facet of the sim or Ubi and begin to pop up like mushrooms.

The reasons threads like these seem to grow like weeds is that the underlying issue is a sore point, or is deemed important by a representative slice of the community. Instead of trying to quash them, or force a "decision" by default, let people debate the merits. It's an insult to all of us when someone "in charge" arrogates himself to deciding what we should think and feel and starts lugging in the padlocks to stifle debate.

Let us make up our OWN minds.

LEBillfish
05-03-2006, 09:57 PM
Free Speech?.....where does even the US Bill of Rights say anything about you having free speech......

Point blank....Just like your home, or just like any forum you own....It is private property. Not public just because they let the public use it.

As to the message under the avatar....you have to be kidding me.......If you cannot laugh at yourself and take some ribbing....Well, shame on whomever as it's a male thing....and I seem to be able to deal with it just fine...So go figure the male who can't. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

-HH- Beebop
05-03-2006, 11:00 PM
Stigler,
If you don't like it here, why do you stick around?

Freelancer-1
05-03-2006, 11:20 PM
Viewpoint Graph


TAGERT...........Everyone else...............Stigler

We need them both. There has to be balance.

These two come second only to raaaid for new and innovative ways to polarize the community.

Now, if we could get all three posting in the same thread...

stansdds
05-04-2006, 04:12 AM
You don't have to have balance, this is not a publicly held or government owned board, it is private property and the property owner may ban whomever they wish. They don't even have to maintain this board, they can pull the plug without notice, especially since they do not charge a membership fee for posting privileges. It's like going to someone's house for a party, if you don't behave, the home owner has every right to toss you out. The home owner can also declare the party to be finished and toss everyone out.

major_setback
05-04-2006, 04:34 AM
I did actually ask a serious question before launching into an exaggerated version of how it would be if we moderated the forums ourselves (that was the point of my joking).

The question I asked was why the original poster would want to see such a list?

danjama
05-04-2006, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
Viewpoint Graph


TAGERT...........Everyone else...............Stigler

We need them both. There has to be balance.

These two come second only to raaaid for new and innovative ways to polarize the community.

Now, if we could get all three posting in the same thread...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BueJack
05-04-2006, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
The question I asked was why the original poster would want to see such a list?

Curiosity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Art-J
05-04-2006, 11:47 AM
outside of that, anything should be fair game.

That's an utopia. In real world/forum If You allow unlimited discussions "outside of that", look what happens - neverending threads about P-38L's 150 octane fuel and high MAP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, where pro-fanatics fight the con-fanatics through double-digit number of pages and there's no f***in' way they can change each other's opinion. So pathetic it ain't funny http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. Nothing illegal there, but I don't want to see this board turning into whining-fest and I'm glad to see our "totalitary-mods" locking these threads sooner or later.

Cheers - Art.

Crash_Moses
05-04-2006, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Art-J:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">outside of that, anything should be fair game.

That's an utopia. In real world/forum If You allow unlimited discussions "outside of that", look what happens - neverending threads about P-38L's 150 octane fuel and high MAP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, where pro-fanatics fight the con-fanatics through double-digit number of pages and there's no f***in' way they can change each other's opinion. So pathetic it ain't funny http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. Nothing illegal there, but I don't want to see this board turning into whining-fest and I'm glad to see our "totalitary-mods" locking these threads sooner or later.

Cheers - Art. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Bingo!

The mods don't lock out these "great debates" because of the content. It's because they (and a bunch of other folks as well, I imagine) are tired of hearing the same whiny !@#$* over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...ah heck! It's all spam...

S!

Stigler_9_JG52
05-04-2006, 01:11 PM
It's only "spam" or a "whine" if YOU are tired of hearing it, right?

D'y'ever think it might be a good point, and the people posting about it are tired of it never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever being fixed, despite the fact that their point is on target?

As for ArtJ, it's not true that opinions can't change as a result of the debates. I've changed MY opinion on a few things as a result of what I've read, and I've had people tell me that what I wrote made them think differently about things. Sometimes the people active in any particular discussion can't be swayed, but others reading the threads might.

Going further with your line of reasoning, there's no way you can persuade me that discussion on a P-38J, or any plane in the plane set, no matter how heated or divisive, can be OT or "not appropriate". Where else would you discuss the finer points of a Lightning, or a 20mm shell, or a Revi gunsight as viewed from the seat of a Focke Wulf? For the mods or anyone else to say such a thing is simply self-serving.

And anyway, that's why the forum is here in the first place: for a free exchange of ideas...not just a "Fox News" style presentation of the party line as determined by some authority figure. When threads get locked for reasons other than profanity, threats, illegal content, etc., etc., the mods are basically telling you, me and everyone else that they don't think we're intelligent enough to make up our minds, and they're telling you when YOU have had enough of a discussion. Seems rather arrogant to me.

arcadeace
05-04-2006, 01:47 PM
I think the author of this thread was out for a little humor and waist of time. I thought it would end up just a waist but I've ended up with more of a laugh than expected. Much ado http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stigler, you have got to be one lonely guy.

Crash_Moses
05-04-2006, 01:55 PM
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Stigler_9_JG52
05-04-2006, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Crash_Moses:
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Well, you're free to change it and actually add some more content to the discussion...

Crash_Moses
05-04-2006, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crash_Moses:
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Well, you're free to change it and actually add some more content to the discussion... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope...it's the never-ending discussion. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Besides, it's 1700. Time to go bomb something...S!

Art-J
05-04-2006, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
It's only "spam" or a "whine" if YOU are tired of hearing it, right?

D'y'ever think it might be a good point, and the people posting about it are tired of it never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever being fixed, despite the fact that their point is on target?

As for ArtJ, it's not true that opinions can't change as a result of the debates. I've changed MY opinion on a few things as a result of what I've read, and I've had people tell me that what I wrote made them think differently about things. Sometimes the people active in any particular discussion can't be swayed, but others reading the threads might.

Going further with your line of reasoning, there's no way you can persuade me that discussion on a P-38J, or any plane in the plane set, no matter how heated or divisive, can be OT or "not appropriate". Where else would you discuss the finer points of a Lightning, or a 20mm shell, or a Revi gunsight as viewed from the seat of a Focke Wulf? For the mods or anyone else to say such a thing is simply self-serving.

And anyway, that's why the forum is here in the first place: for a free exchange of ideas...not just a "Fox News" style presentation of the party line as determined by some authority figure. When threads get locked for reasons other than profanity, threats, illegal content, etc., etc., the mods are basically telling you, me and everyone else that they don't think we're intelligent enough to make up our minds, and they're telling you when YOU have had enough of a discussion. Seems rather arrogant to me.

You got some point here. For example I wouldn't know many things about this freakin' fuel and blower setting If I didn't read the first few pages of this "neverending thread".

The problem is, after few first pages, all reasonable opinions of a few reasonable guys tend to sink into the "Apocalyptic Black Sea of Whining" (because each side of the conflict truly thinks that "THEIR point is on target"!) - the board gets less friendly and joyful to read and it's getting harder to find precious and informative posts between "cry-me-a-river" ones. This is the moment I don't like and this is the moment when I'd be pleased to see some hot-heads to calm down or be silenced by the mods if their re-re-re-re-re-reply doesn't really add anything new to the discussion except calling-names again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. Imagine what a new player feels when after purchase of the sim he jumps to our infamous "Ubi-Zoo" and whitnesses one of these "friendly(?!)" debates.

And yes, I'm afraid sometimes I really have an impression that these firestarters aren't "intelligent enough to make up their minds". Why does it have to take 20+ pages of more and more aggressive posts to finally make up their minds? (if they do it at all, before mods move in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif).
Too much "censorship" from mods might be considered as "evil" but I'm not happy with idea of all-around "Pilot's-Lounge-style" anarchy either. It's all about finding the right spot between... but frankly, I don't consider myself smart enough to judge wether mods here have or haven't found it yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Well, my two cents... I better stop now, because I'll become a "firestarter" myself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Glad to have an interesting discussion with You!

Cheers - Art

Stigler_9_JG52
05-04-2006, 04:38 PM
Well, the Internet is simply the Internet.

Here, everyone has opinions. And, some are more reasoned and intelligent (and well-expressed) than others.

But, I'd rather have to put up with the occasional blithering posts of a few idiots who can't spell, or won't STOP USING THE CAPS LOCK KEY, or that spout the same little slogans that somebody shoved into thier mouth, than the alternative, which is to have one person or group deciding what everyone's viewpoint is going to be, like it or not.

Fork-N-spoon
05-05-2006, 12:53 AM
Who cares about rights etc.

Are we not customers of UBI? Do we not buy UBI products? Isn't UBI in fact providing a service in hopes that we will buy more of their products?

Lastly...Isn't the customer always right?