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stanford-ukded
03-03-2007, 05:11 AM
I've read numerous discussions and interviews with Jug pilots who state that the P47 could roll almost twice for a Spit/109 rolling once. I was wondering if anyone knew of any video footage showing this? Even just a P47 rolling very quickly would be nice.

Just curiosity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kwiatos
03-03-2007, 05:38 AM
Unfortunately in game P-47 has very poor roll rate at medium to high speed which is wrong. Even A6M roll like P-47 at high speed. Oleg said that cant model accurate roll rate in P-47 at high speed without changing its roll at low speed. I think its not true because in version 3.5 and before P-47 roll much better at high speed and the same like now at low speed. Other hand A6M have too good roll rate at high speed where should be nearly not roll at all. P-47 was know as good roller at high speed which unfortunately is not represented in game.

DKoor
03-03-2007, 05:44 AM
TA-152H (I'm flying it in career mode now) also has reduced roll on high speed. I tried to follow LA-7 in dive-roll and it came as a nasty surprise...
A6M shouldn't have great roll, I didn't fly that A/C for ages so I don't know now. I know that on low speed it's a monkey.
47 has fair control on high speed (not great mind you, like 51 has).
51 and 190D are two best aircraft on high speed, they just happily respond to my every input.

FritzGryphon
03-03-2007, 06:09 AM
It's been tested at length before. In short -all- planes in IL-2 have wonky roll rates at certain speeds, and the discrepancies get larger with altitude.

The curve for the roll rates are generally correct, but they do not respond correctly to different pressures or mach numbers.

For example, this comparison for FW-190. Curve is correct, but shifted.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/fwroll.jpg

In all likelihood, the roll rates are calibrated for only 1 altitude. For all other altitudes, they are off due to engine limitations.

Kwiatos
03-03-2007, 06:49 AM
Ta152H should have reduced roll rate due to its long wings. In game Ta152H still roll better then P-47 which shouldnt be. Fw190 still roll very good at high speed, P-51 also but the most hurt is P-47 which actually rolls equaly with A6M (or even little worse).

stanford-ukded
03-03-2007, 07:02 AM
I know it's been tested at length, I'm not after more tests. I can see for myself exactly how it rolls. I was just after archive footage.

I saw a 47 fly at Duxford last summer, I doubt they were pressing it hard but it rolled no faster than any other aircraft.

Abbuzze
03-03-2007, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by stanford-ukded:
I know it's been tested at length, I'm not after more tests. I can see for myself exactly how it rolls. I was just after archive footage.

I saw a 47 fly at Duxford last summer, I doubt they were pressing it hard but it rolled no faster than any other aircraft.

There are two possibilties for the mechanical layout of the ailerons, smaller max. deflection. P40/51/47. This reduce rolling speed at low speed, but enable the pilot to hold this deflection even at higher speed.
2nd way - Higher deflection Spit, 109 and even 190. This planes will be better at low speed than the first mentioned, but if you get faster you canĀ“t hold this deflection and even worse, the deflection is getting smaller than in a P40 for example. You can see this behavior in any roll chart. No1 has a flat curve, No2 has a significant peak with a big descent of roll rate after passing it.

So in the typical speed of an airshow roll there should be no advantage for a P47.

CUJO_1970
03-03-2007, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Kwiatos:
In game Ta152H still roll better then P-47 which shouldnt be.


Prove it.

Prove that the P-47 should out-roll the Ta-152. And come up with something better than the TA-152 had longer wings...

AKA_TAGERT
03-03-2007, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
For example, this comparison for FW-190. Curve is correct, but shifted. Not just shifted left, the peak roll rate is too high also.. that is to say all planes roll too fast and their peaks are a lower speeds than they should be.

JtD
03-03-2007, 08:50 AM
Stanford, if you look for the p-47 Thunderbolt on youtube you will find quite a few nice videos. In some shots, they do perform rolling maneuvres. Not 360, but 90+ quite often.

VW-IceFire
03-03-2007, 10:49 AM
It's still immensely better than the original 1.0 P-47. That one had a decent chance of being out rolled by a He-111.

JG4_Helofly
03-03-2007, 11:07 AM
That roll rate chart shows one important thing: Manoeuvrability at low speed is way too good in this game. That's why planes still have good manoeuvralility when performing a start or a landing which make it easier.