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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:25 PM
MADDOX, return the hurrcs back to the way they were when game first came OUT,im sick of bias planes!!hurricanes won battle of britain ,cause there were soo many in RAF you turned it into a flying BRICK!!!!fix it plz asap!!

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:25 PM
MADDOX, return the hurrcs back to the way they were when game first came OUT,im sick of bias planes!!hurricanes won battle of britain ,cause there were soo many in RAF you turned it into a flying BRICK!!!!fix it plz asap!!

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:30 PM
Rumours said that the detailed and well-based proof in your thread made Oleg recognize he was all wrong and he has now put his best men on reworking the FM of the Hurri.

New patch will be out before you can say the word "Irony".

Great job, AFJ-wdwmkr. Keep it up.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:31 PM
Tut, tut, tut. The biggest mistake Olegg made was making the Hurricane so unrealistically good in the first place. I`m British and love the Spit and Hurri, but knew the Hurri`s FM could not be real.

Unfortunately, all these new guys trying the Hurri in FB for the 1st time and weaned on it are now crying quite a bit because of the reality hitin FB Patched.
Sorry, AFJ-wdwmkr. But the Battle of Britain was not won by gravity defying Hurricanes, it was won by excellent pilots who knew how to use good, stalling aircraft that turned well. Read up on the history. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:33 PM
AFJ-wdwmkr wrote:
- MADDOX, return the hurrcs back to the way they were
- when game first came OUT,

Based on....?

- im sick of bias planes!!

And tired?

- hurricanes won battle of britain ,cause
- there were soo many in RAF

And your point? I think that was the argument used to make the change.. That it was not that 1 HUR was that good, but that they had so many that they didnt need to be good. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- you turned it into a flying BRICK!!!!

Based off the DATA they have.

- fix it plz asap!!

Based on your... FEELINGS?


TAGERT
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If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:36 PM
your the best fix fix plz

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:37 PM
This time you mister can be called a NOOB !!! A big one!!
What daya mean they won BoB cuz they were so many?? The RAF was WAAAAAYYYY outnumbered !!
For your info, Raf pilots, were actualy afraid about taking a too tight turn, cuz the Huuri could simply brake apart.
Did you ever thinked about why they outurned La7s?
In the general opinion of the ppl here they are modeled accurate enough now.
BTW, they haven't been castrated, they are still capable of reasonable dogfighting, what stops you to learn to fly them again?
If you don't like it, just send a report to ubi, togheter with the data's you own,and make you think they are undermodelled. Remember this game MUST be HISTORICALL, and if in RL they acted like this, then so they should act in FB!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>
<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:40 PM
I now have beer on my keyboard and monitor./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thank God all is not lost.


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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:42 PM
GESUNTHEIT!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
steve_v wrote:
- I now have beer on my keyboard and monitor./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- Thank God all is not lost.
-
-
- <center> <img
- src=http://www.geocities.com/g8tr45/domodance.txt>
-
-
-
- <center> I got Patch 1.1b for IL-2 Sturmovik:
- Forgotten Battles.
-
- <center> Please use 3dgamers for downloads. You'll
- be glad you did./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- <a
- href="http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/il2sturmovi
- k2/patch11b.exe.html"
- target=_blank>http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/il2
- sturmovik2/patch11b.exe.html</a>
-
-
-
-
-



<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
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<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:43 PM
AFJ-wdwmkr wrote:
- your the best

Thanks... what can I say.. it's a gift.

- fix fix plz

Ok.. as soon as you prove it is broke, Ill get right on it.



TAGERT
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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:50 PM
Someone would be so kind to tell me, why TH we have to endure threads like this ??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
C'mon Ven why haven't you locked this thread in the first place? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif (plz)
What is this?somekind of non-patch wihneing??
For months ppl asked where's the patch, and now isn't good anymore!!!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Dude, If you don't like the Hurri now just return to 1.0 version, nobody is stopping U.
OR you could learn to fly....A PLANE!!!


<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>
<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:12 PM
Hurricane flys just nicely...and I like flying my Hurricane in online dogfights.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:21 PM
AFJ-wdwmkr wrote:
- MADDOX, return the hurrcs back to the way they were
- when game first came OUT,im sick of bias
- planes!!hurricanes won battle of britain ,cause
- there were soo many in RAF you turned it into a
- flying BRICK!!!!fix it plz asap!!
-----------------------------------------

Another case of a severe "post patch syndrome" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

LOL

Hunter82
08-16-2003, 11:24 PM
I thought I was going to vote for Ven on this one but Steve edged it out /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:38 PM
It's the Man not the Machine Dave /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:40 PM
I think it still flies nicely.

Keep it the way it is!

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:20 AM
Damn Ven!

Why didn't you tell us the beta reporting standards had changed?! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:25 AM
God damn it Ven!! I'l be damned if I don't report you to Cartrix if you keep leaving this thread unlocked!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>
<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:27 AM
Recon_609IAP wrote:
- I think it still flies nicely.
-
- Keep it the way it is!
-

I have to agree with you on this Recon. Okay it can actually be stalled now, but it is still good versus planes of the period. Just don't pick fights with late war fighter a/c. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I have faith that Oleg's team has got it right now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'd rather fly realistic planes, so if it's accurate leave it be. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif If it isn't, bring on the proof!!

----------------------------------------

Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand goes all the way to the
bone.

Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do ?"
Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:34 AM
I am having a hard time believing that the author of this thread isn't one of our regular trolls with a new nick. If that's the case, then he is the best angler here. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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"My ancestors didn't come over in the Mayflower--they met the boat."


http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:12 AM
OMG I'm late for this one, anyway, here goes....


Waaaggggghhhhh!!!!!! spit dummy my toys are broken, now I'm chuckin them on the floor.

Is this guy a member of the Flat Earth Society? He seems a prime candidate/president to me!

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:24 AM
You must remember with FB coming out...the price of IL2 dropping to $19..along with new (read cheaper older quality cards) cards and such coming out. A lot of people who would not have given IL2 the time of day did so when it was $19...and they found out which "Combat Flight Simulator" was the real deal...... When FB came out it was a forgone conclusion that they would get it. Many of them however were probably former CFS1 guys and as you all know or maybe some of you dont..in CFS1 anyway the Hurricane is the turn on dime, climb like a banshee uber bird. The Pony in CFS is a lot like the P-39 here. You have to learn to fly it to master it but once you do you can be a real killer. So my point is..there are a lot of kids here who know little about history and dont have a lot of experience with sims except for the obvious ones...it is somewhat of a shock I guess. I like all the new FMs..... Each new plane is even more individualized now in thier FMs. Give the kid a break...school him../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:29 AM
Bearcat99 wrote
Give the kid a
- break...school him

?!?!? School him?? We should better sen him to an asylum!
A well guarded one! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>
<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:45 AM
Bearcat99 wrote:
...... When FB came out it was a forgone
- conclusion that they would get it. Many of them
- however were probably former CFS1 guys and as you
- all know or maybe some of you dont..in CFS1 anyway
- the Hurricane is the turn on dime, climb like a
- banshee uber bird....... Give the kid a
- break...school him


Providing that this guy is for real, Bearcat is absolutely right. We all tend to shoot first, then ask questions later. The CFS Hurri was banned by most rooms because it was so unrealistic. It's real easy for a new user to think (especially after seeing how much the 'box' FB Hawker agrees with CFS) that the Hawk was invincible, when in reality it was a heavily armed box-kite.

Tsisqua

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/images/proctorZeke.jpg
"My ancestors didn't come over in the Mayflower--they met the boat."


http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:13 AM
Von_Zero wrote:

- For your info, Raf pilots, were actualy afraid
- about taking a too tight turn, cuz the Huuri could
- simply brake apart.
-
- Did you ever thinked about why they outurned La7s?
-
- In the general opinion of the ppl here they are
- modeled accurate enough now.
-
- If you don't like it, just send a report to ubi,
- togheter with the data's you own,and make you think
- they are undermodelled. Remember this game MUST be
- HISTORICALL, and if in RL they acted like this, then
- so they should act in FB!!

Actually the Hurricane is still not modelled completley correctly. It's stall characteristics have been corrected slightly but are still off from the real thing.

As for your information that the pilots were afraid to pull high G turns on the Hurricane because it simply fell apart is completely incorrect!! The Hurricane was a very robust machine, more so than the Spitfire during WW2. Being an ex RAF pilot myself the Hurricane could withstand all sorts of punishment thrown at it. From very tight turns to low level attack. If battle damaged she was simply patched up and sent back into the field. The mechanics had nothing but praise for Sidney's aircraft, which was far more than they had to say when trying to patch up a Spitfire after it had a few holes

The Hurricane did not break apart at all and very few instances of stress fatigue in the Hurricane were ever recorded. Pilots frequently threw the bird about in when engaged in dogfights. Luftwaffe pilots also pointed out that the Hurricane actually absorbed more damage than the Spitfire due to her construction. She was one of the most robust and tough fighters in WW2. Don't belittle the old girl by misinformation.

http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/BP_Ham%20Sig.gif



Per Ardua Ad Astra


Message Edited on 08/17/03 03:20AM by HamishUK

Message Edited on 08/17/0303:26AM by HamishUK

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:39 AM
stop breathing and get purple, works for babies....



AFJ-wdwmkr wrote:
- MADDOX, return the hurrcs back to the way they were
- when game first came OUT,im sick of bias
- planes!!hurricanes won battle of britain ,cause
- there were soo many in RAF you turned it into a
- flying BRICK!!!!fix it plz asap!!
-
-



http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif

[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:44 AM
AFJ-wdwmkr wrote:
- MADDOX, return the hurrcs back to the way they were
- when game first came OUT,im sick of bias
- planes!!hurricanes won battle of britain ,cause
- there were soo many in RAF you turned it into a
- flying BRICK!!!!fix it plz asap!!

Or he'll thcweam and thcweam and thcweam 'till he's thick!

It should be readily apparent that there is little, if anything, rattling around between Mr. Wdwmkr's ears. Attempting to sensibly answer his posts will result in more outbursts of random stupidity. Pointing and laughing is, as usual, the best option.

/Points and laughs.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:51 AM
Im not a programmer, but why is it so hard to get aircraft modelled historically. Why was the Hawker Hurricane over done in Fb 1.0? Why was the Emil overdone? And the P-47 underdone? Where does the Oleg team get info on flight models?

http://www.stormbirds.com/warbirds/header.jpg


<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 06:37 AM
RELAX airheadbob. if you disagree with him say so. but no need for personal attacks.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 06:55 AM
Well, one thing that I noticed that the patch has fixed is that you only have landing flaps available now. Before the patch you had 3 notches of flaps. I think that we are headed in the right direction. Perhaps my assesment of "Box-kite" was a bit presumptous, in light of what was posted by the former RAF pilot, but I still, inspite of having never flown one, stand by my belief that simulation Hurricanes are traditionally overdone in flight simulations. Anyone care to enlighten me as to why?

Tsisqua

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/images/proctorZeke.jpg
"My ancestors didn't come over in the Mayflower--they met the boat."


http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:19 AM
I have been trying out the thunderbolt and notice that I am much deaadlier in the Hurri than the Jug. It seems my .50s are all over the place when I fire in the Jug but the Hurri is rock solid when I fire and the Krauts burn and crash if I get a 1 sec burst in. In the Jug I gotta shoot and shoot and maybe rip wings off or PK, most of the time just watch them fly away after outta ammo. Gunnery Much easier in Hurri. It climbs well, but it's slow though , but it's an older generation plane after all.

Two things though that bug.

1) No mixture control?

2) Another thing that bugs is that the CS propeller are modelled wrong at low MP, They should not be able to keep high RPM setting at IDLE throttle, but they do! Makes it interesting at landing when using fine pitch.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:46 AM
<center>
http://home.comcast.net/~argylestransom/Pics/Actually.jpg
</center>

<center>
http://home.comcast.net/~argylestransom/Pics/A10Bun.jpg
</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:14 AM
The Hurricane played a big part in winning the Battle of Britain, but it never had, nor was it ever known for, outstanding performance.

The Russians felt they were "useless".

If the Hurricane now feels like a mediocre plane, well, maybe because it was.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:35 AM
By Mark Hanna,

"How do they compare with other WW2 fighters? Well, I believe, very favourably with some of the other aeroplanes. I had just flown a Hurricane for the first time, a week before the Rata and sorry to Hurricane aficionados, but I was really surprised and disappointed in the aeroplane's handling and performance (although very interesting and lovely to fly the type). I felt that you would be better off fighting in a Rata. At any rate I felt quickly far more comfortable in it. In air combat against early low powered 109's, I would suspect that the two aircraft were very comparable. Later variants of the Messerschmitt would easily be able to dictate the fight against the Rata due to the 109's superior speed and vertical performance."

http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/pages/i_16pr.html

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:36 AM
the fm is fine now i think its a great match vs 109e's finally, and still can kill anyplane in the game except for the .303 versions cant even shootdown a he111 with them weak guns, besides getting a lucky pilotkill before the hurricane fm performed more like a late war spitfire.


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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:17 AM
I really like the way the Hurricane flys now.
Because of it's previous lack of realism, I just hope people won't still be branded a NOOB for flying one online.

S! Simon.
<center>


<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font>
http://extremeone.4t.com/images/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:48 AM
AFJ-wdwmkr wrote:
- MADDOX, return the hurrcs back to the way they were
- when game first came OUT,im sick of bias
- planes!!hurricanes won battle of britain ,cause
- there were soo many in RAF you turned it into a
- flying BRICK!!!!fix it plz asap!!

Are you sick in the head or something?

I smell a rat!

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:03 AM
Bun-Bun ! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Hehehehe !!!

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:25 AM
It still feels too slow.The most I've got out of the Hurricane Mk I at sea level is 390 KPH, according to the data in the Objects menu the fastest speed should be 418 KPH at sea level.Perhaps I'm doing something wrong with the prop pitch, I don't know.The hurribus definitely needs the fuel mixture control put back, hopefully this was a bug.
Still, she flies pretty well. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
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Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:40 AM
you can always roll back to v1.0. i mean if u really wanted to.

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Hunter82
08-17-2003, 12:18 PM
I love the Hurri in the historical sense... I hope it stays as it is....more true to life now. It doesn't need to be the CFS1 Hurri /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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[/i]</FONT>
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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:18 PM
Hello!

The Hurri is very realistic and nice plane to fly.
Im more concerned about the I-153 in particular and the Fw 190s stall performance.
In overall the patch is very good and i like the new FMs.

Read this
http://www.skyshow.co.nz/pages/i_16pr.html
text about the comparison of the rata and hurry

"I had just flown a Hurricane for the first time, a week before the Rata and sorry to Hurricane aficionados, but I was really surprised and disappointed in the aeroplane's handling and performance (although very interesting and lovely to fly the type). I felt that you would be better off fighting in a Rata. At any rate I felt quickly far more comfortable in it. In air combat against early low powered 109's, I would suspect that the two aircraft were very comparable. Later variants of the Messerschmitt would easily be able to dictate the fight against the Rata due to the 109's superior speed and vertical performance."

CD_Turbo

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:54 PM
Because that is what they had, up or down. Same for the Spit.

tsisqua wrote:
- Well, one thing that I noticed that the patch has
- fixed is that you only have landing flaps available
- now. Before the patch you had 3 notches of flaps. I
- think that we are headed in the right direction.
- Perhaps my assesment of "Box-kite" was a bit
- presumptous, in light of what was posted by the
- former RAF pilot, but I still, inspite of having
- never flown one, stand by my belief that simulation
- Hurricanes are traditionally overdone in flight
- simulations. Anyone care to enlighten me as to why?
-
-

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:42 PM
The Hurri was a great plane when it had to be in the war,but that was in 1940.Hurris killing mid and late war L.W. planes is pure fantasy.Sure it could happen to a dumb pilot or a lucky Hurri pilot in the right place at the right time,but the odds for that are probably 90% against.Most of the time the Hurri would be a sitting duck for those planes.

The Hurri should be able to do well in early war servers only.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:53 PM
I like the Hurri enough to at least fly it now. The Hover-cane FM of 1.0 was just stupid.

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:02 PM
DeerHunterUK wrote:
- The hurribus definitely needs the fuel mixture
- control put back, hopefully this was a bug.
- Still, she flies pretty well.
------
- In memory of 'The Few'

There should never have been a mixture control for the Hurri 2; it had automatic mixture control and the lever (present on the Mk1) was removed.

Only just installed patch, so haven't played with any of the ac much yet. Maybe prop control fully forward (100% prop), full throttle with boost control cut-out pulled (WEP) would give the quoted speed? Oh, and make sure you don't engage S ratio while at sea-level. M ratio (ie supercharger stage 1) should give more power.

Why only flap down post-patch? Two or 3 positions at least would be correct. From Hurricane 2 Pilot's Notes:

8. CHECK LIST BEFORE TAKE-OFF

...

F - Flaps - UP (28 deg down - two divs on indicator - for shortest take-off run).

11. GENERAL FLYING

...

In bad visibility near the ground flaps should be lowered to about 40 deg (3 divisions) and the propellor speed control set to 2,650 rpm. Speed may then be reduced to about 110 mph IAS (note mph not kts).

18. CHECK LIST BEFORE LANDING

...

F - Flaps - DOWN

19. APPROACH AND LANDING

(iii) <u>Flaps</u> : If 120 mph is exceeded with the flaps fully down, they will be partially raised by the airflow. they will automatically move to the fully down position when speed is reduced sufficiently, provided that the selector lever is left at down.

There are 3 positions quoted there (28, 40 degs & fully down) plus partially 'blown' up. In fact any position could be set by shifting the selector to DOWN, watching the indicator move, and reverting to NEUTRAL when the desired position was reached. Presumably most ac had similar systems and could actually set any position? I know the 109 had a manually operated wheel which would allow any angle between up and down to be set. For normal operation certain standard settings, which had been tested by test pilots drawing up pilot notes etc, would be the only ones actually used, so FB's simplification into 3 positions is reasonable enough. If the Hurricane has indeed lost the intermediate positions, I have to ask why?



Message Edited on 08/17/0303:33PM by Kernow

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:04 PM
The Hurricane was known for being easy to fly and as a stable gun platform. In FB, that's what it is. It handles very nicely and turns well.

It was NOT known for its speed or roll rate. Molders described the Hurri as a tugboat, and in FB, that's what it is.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:08 PM
Extreme_One wrote:
- I really like the way the Hurricane flys now.
- Because of it's previous lack of realism, I just
- hope people won't still be branded a NOOB for flying
- one online.
-


IMO there are no more nOOb AC all are so much closer to the real deal that it takes lots of skill to fly each of them

Happy Hunting


<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

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<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:43 PM
Thanks for the information Kernow, I didn't know the Mk II didn't have a fuel mixture control (I really should read the Pilot's Manual again).As it happens I was referring to the Mk I as that's the aircraft my Squadron uses.I very rarely fly any of the Mk II's.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:52 PM
yawn...


must use this thread to test my new sig /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif sorry guys, but not that this thread has any value...

<center>http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/sig_2.jpg
Once he made up his mind...</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:59 PM
LOL@ Freshness's sig /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>http://www.assonetart.com/jsGodsgrace.jpg </center><center>/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif The above statue was a gift from France</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 04:37 PM
- It still feels too slow.The most I've got out of the
- Hurricane Mk I at sea level is 390 KPH, according to
- the data in the Objects menu the fastest speed
- should be 418 KPH at sea level.

418 kp/h is about right for 6lbs boost, 87 octane fuel. In late 1939/early 1940, the RAF authorised 12lbs boost on 100 octane fuel, which increased speed to around 280 mph/ 450 kp/h at sea level.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:18 PM
I smell something fishy here. I thought the AFJ only took good pilots? This is the most noob thread i've ever seen, and he hasn't come back for another comment. I'm not biting.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:28 PM
Yes I agree the planes did stall but not on a 10 degree angle upwards while doing 200 MPH, nor did it pitch and yaw so horribly that actual flight is impossible. I don't recall seeing hurs falling out of the sky in any film I saw. I don't recall hearing from any WWII Vets, that if you turned 5 degress and use you rutter you will fall out of the sky and die.

The patch wasted this plane and we All know it, The only plane to fly now with enough hitting power is the BF109 K. All the rest have turned into ground straffing pieces of flying brick. These are no longer dogfighters,they are a bunch of bombers and none to graceful.


By the way these palnes were know as Gliders not stallers. The Spit and the Hurcs engines cut off while inverted because they used carborators in the beginning of the war, Feul injection came out in 1941 I believe correct me if I'm wrong on the German Planes and was not copied by the Allies until the late of 1942, For plane to be a Glider your weight vs. stall ratio is incredible, they float on Air get it.

Get rid of this patch, I know some Airforce and WWII guys who could help. The people who pioneered flight, maybe you should talk with them.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:30 PM
Thank You

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 06:17 PM
Well I'm happy with it and it's not been too much altered from V1.0 anyway. Still plenty of climb and a more realistic turn IMHO. I'm also delighted that both the power of the .303s has been increased some and the damage model of the 1-16 has been toned down to a more tolerable level. I'm now able to fly the Mk.1 Hurricane in the Finnish campaign and do quite spectacular with it, thank you very much. I was able to down two I-16s and a early Lagg3 in the same mission. Before the patch, I would have surely died. Probably would have turned tail and RTB'd.


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 06:28 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- if you disagree with him say so. but no need
- for personal attacks.

What, you mean like...

RedDeth wrote;
- RELAX airheadbob.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good one, spaz. Good one.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:25 PM
"At the end of June 1940, I was made a Squadron Leader and given command of 242 (Canadian) Fighter Squadron. It was equipped with Hurricanes Mark I. The only time I had flown a Hurricane, and then just for a short time, was at Upavon five months previously. That model had had a two-bladed, fixed-pitch airscrew. Now I got to know three-bladed constant speed propellors. They were better, providing shorter take-off, faster climb.

The Hurricane was slower than the Spitfire, with a maximum speed of 335 m.p.h. against 367 m.p.h. The Hurricane was also less elegant to the eye, but then there has never been such a beautiful aeroplane as the Spitfire. For all that, like other fighters from the Hawker stable, and the the result of the design genius of Sydney Camm, thr Hurricane was a thoroughbred and looked it. Like the Spitfire it was immensly strong: a pilot had no need to fear the danger of pulling the wings off, no matter how desperate the situation became.

When I first flew the Hurricane in June 1940, I was areeably surprised at the compact feel of the aeroplane. It had seemed big on the ground in comparison with the Spitfire; in the air it felt nothing of the sort. You could see out of it better and the controls were perfectly harmonized. It climbed steeply and at a lower speed but required a good deal of right rudder in the climb to counteract the engine torque. I found this a considerable nuisance on a long climb. The Spitfire had the same left-hand pull in a climb but it also had a manually operated bias in the cockpit so that the pilot could trim it out on the rudder.

As I was continually leading formations on long climbs from take-off to 20,000 feet, the maximum height at which the Hurricane I could successfully fight, I got fed-up with this. The Hawker test-pilot, Philip Lucas, was a chum, so I rang him up and complained. There were instant results (as was always the case in those days). I flew my Hurricane over to Langley were they fitted a rudder bias in hours.

Like all pilots who flew and fought in the Hurricane I, I grew to love it. It was strong, highly manoeuvrable, could turn inside the Spitfire and of course the Me 109. Best of all, it was a marvellous gun platform. The sloping nose gave you a splendid forward view, while the eight guns were set in blocks of four in each wing, close to the fuselage. The aeroplane remained rock steady when you fired. Unlike the Spitfire with its lovely elliptical wing which sloped upwards to the tip, the Hurricane wing was thicker and straight. The Spitfire was less steady when the guns were firing because, I have always thought, they were spread further along the wing, and the recoil effect was noticeable."



Douglas Bader "Fight For The Sky" 1973.


There you have it. Perhaps the greatest exponent of the Hurricane's capabilities, with his opinions on the plane's strengths. His preferred tactic was the aforementioned long climb to gain a favourable (up-sun) position from which to use this stable gun platform. As the war progressed Bader would employ 'big wing' tactics to deliver maximum firepower to the most threatening point of an enemy attack. The Hurricane was a good tool when used in the right circumstances. It has been (rightly) pointed out elsewhere on these boards that it was unsuited for some of the rigours of the Eastern Front, but used correctly, this plane can be an effective - if unspectacular - fighter.

Let's put this one to bed now, eh? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/FaintWhirly.jpg?0.014428488517455151 </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:07 PM
GREAT POST low flyer!!! you get BEST POST OF THE DAY AWARD!!!. most in here dont realize the hurricane could out turn the spitfire !!!!. thats amazing. and a great gun platform for easy aim . looks like it was always modelled correct except for the uber climbing ability. and its ceiling is 20,000 ft? i always took em up over that to shoot down k4s before. guess that was incorrectly modelled

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:26 PM
"Return hurrcs bck to orinal???

An "orinal" means "chamberpot" in Spanish. I don't think the good Hurricane to deserve this fate... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

But, think, if the Hurricane was way so good, why should the Brits develope the Spitfire. Look, there was no Hurricane Mk.XIV. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



- Dux Corvan -

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:36 PM
The Hurricane took on the role of bomber attacks, because the Spit was so much better in the dogfights.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:09 PM
yeah they took damage cos they were fabric covered and the bullets went thru and not explode like hitting metal they were great at killing bombers and the spits took care of fightrs but hurries could hold thier own against the 109's but the 109 was still supiour

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:15 PM
You here?

Haven't I told you to go bed? Have I to go there and beat your *** with a shoe? This kid is gonna kill me! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Go study and put commas in your posts!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



- Dux Corvan -

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:32 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- GREAT POST low flyer!!! you get BEST POST OF THE DAY
- AWARD!!!. most in here dont realize the hurricane
- could out turn the spitfire !!!!. thats amazing. and
- a great gun platform for easy aim . looks like it
- was always modelled correct except for the uber
- climbing ability. and its ceiling is 20,000 ft?


Is there some sort of cash prize involved in this post of the day business? Only the Whirly Whiners might need help building up our war chest for our battle with Westlands /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/FaintWhirly.jpg?0.014428488517455151 </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:35 PM
The prize is $500.00. Your check is in the mail. Go wait at your mailbox.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:48 PM
I'm so glad they put the Hurricane down. On Hyperlobby this uberplane was a real pain-in-the-***. Think it's more realistic now. I have no idea why they changed the P-39. The way it climes...is that accurate?
But what about the P-47D..? I fly it online daily. Get used to it and begin to like it as a BnZ'er. In turning dogfights it's still...terrible/accurate...you name it.





<center>http://members.ams.chello.nl/pgkiljan/il2/jug.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:00 PM
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Concert/8355/graphics/apat2.gif




BuzzU wrote:
- The prize is $500.00. Your check is in the mail. Go
- wait at your mailbox.

Hurri up (geddit?) you poor man's pony express /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/FaintWhirly.jpg?0.014428488517455151 </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:02 PM
The Airacobra feels very good the way it is, But when you said "the way she climbes" did you meant good or bad? To me she can't climb with an 109, she, even feels quite slow, in vertical combat, but is MUST be respected.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Flokkie wrote:
- I'm so glad they put the Hurricane down. On
- Hyperlobby this uberplane was a real
- pain-in-the-***. Think it's more realistic now. I
- have no idea why they changed the P-39. The way it
- climes...is that accurate?
- But what about the P-47D..? I fly it online daily.
- Get used to it and begin to like it as a BnZ'er. In
- turning dogfights it's
- still...terrible/accurate...you name it.
-
-
-
-
-
-
- <center><img
- src="http://members.ams.chello.nl/pgkiljan/il2/jug
- .jpg">
-



<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>
<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:38 PM
fiestapower wrote:
- yeah they took damage cos they were fabric covered
- and the bullets went thru and not explode like
- hitting metal

This is a myth, I'm afraid. A pilot was statistically much more likely to survive damage in a stressed-steel skin Spitfire Mk. 1 than in a Hurricane. Yes, a shell would explode on contact with the metal skin of a Spitfire and cause a lot of obvious damage to the skin. They'd still often explode when they hit the Hurricane, and instead of damaging the skin the shrapnel would pass through the aircraft until it either exited the aircraft or hit a solid object - the engine, flight controls, or the pilot.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:00 AM
in FB v1.0 the Hurricane had a overmoddeled : ....

1) turn time
2) climb rate
3) dive speed
4) engine damadge modell

but the low stalling was NOT OVERMODELLED

the ppl who flew it had supreme confidence in its handeling
its good that it is a little slower but its stall behaviour is off when you compare it to other planes in the game
it should be the lowest stalling fighter in FB

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 07:47 AM
turn time was not overmodelled badsight. hurricane could out turn spits.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:01 AM
DuxCorvan wrote:
- You here?
-
- Haven't I told you to go bed? Have I to go there and
- beat your *** with a shoe? This kid is gonna kill
- me
- Go study and put commas in your posts!!!

Hmm, I thought we were not supposed to flame people that doesn't write english that well, maybe becourse it's their second language and who knows, maybe they don't have commas in his culture??

rgds

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:58 AM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-
- in FB v1.0 the Hurricane had a overmoddeled : ....
-
-
- 1) turn time
-
- 2) climb rate
-
- 3) dive speed
-
- 4) engine damadge modell
-
-
- but the low stalling was NOT OVERMODELLED
-
-
- the ppl who flew it had supreme confidence in its
- handeling
-
- its good that it is a little slower but its stall
- behaviour is off when you compare it to other planes
- in the game
-
- it should be the lowest stalling fighter in FB
-
-

I am afraid you do not know what you are talking about! The stall rate is still innacurate according to my long time friend Flt Lt Bob Cane of the BBMF. He flies Hurricanes for a living (at Duxford and for ceremonies) and I would take his word over yours anyday of the week.

I flew with 6 Sqdn of the R.A.F. and to be honest the Hurricanes stall charecteristics are nothing short of arcade like in their quality.

The Hurricanes stall is overmodelled and appropriate technical data has been requested to be passed onto Oleg.



http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/BP_Ham%20Sig.gif



Per Ardua Ad Astra

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 10:19 AM
I took the following text from the Pilot's Notes for the Hurricane Mk II series.

'14. STALLING
(i) At the stall one wing usually drops sharply, often over the vertical,
with flaps either up or down.
(ii) The average stalling speeds (M.P.H-I.A.S.) for the aircraft at
various AUX (from 7,600 Lbs. to 9,200 Lbs. are:
Undercarriage and flaps - UP: 80-90
Undercarriage and flaps - DOWN: 60-75
The speeds for individual aircraft may vary by 5 mph.'

I'd love to see the stall data for the Mk I if anyone has got it.In theory it should be better than the Mk II.



-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 10:40 AM
I don`t get it.The guy wants to simulate flying the Hurricane but he wants it to fly like a ufo?!This is just pathetic./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 10:56 AM
jmmoric wrote:
- Hmm, I thought we were not supposed to flame people
- that doesn't write english that well, maybe becourse
- it's their second language and who knows, maybe they
- don't have commas in his culture??


Well, actually, English is NOT my first language. I've worked hard to have just a middle-level, so that I can write it just in an intelligible way. And that time I spent studying I couldn't play simulators.

You must know what are your priorities.



- Dux Corvan -

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:00 PM
RedDeath .... in FB v1.0 the turn time for the Hurricane was too fast

HamishUK ...... if you read my post you will see that i am saying its Stall is IN-CORRECT

the way it stalls now is a joke .
its slow speed is more realistic but it was a plane that was famous for NOT Stalling

in the patch it will stall at silly speeds & climb angles & turning angles

it just flops over when pushed a little too hard

IRL it was pushed Vrey hard to its limits because it pilots had CONFIDENCE in its user freindly nature

it should be the fighter with the LOWEST stall inclination in FB
( aside from the I-153 )

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:05 PM
at the best turn speed for the hurricane & at the best turn speed for the Spitfire , the Spitfire had an equal / better turn time compared to the Hurricane

but the Hurricane was a Very user freindly A/C

it gave its pilots even more confidence in its stability than the Spitfire did



Message Edited on 08/18/0311:15AM by WUAF_Badsight

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:07 PM
"its slow speed is more realistic but it was a plane that was famous for NOT Stalling"

Says who?

Let's have a specific quote here, because frankly we're getting pretty tired of hearing claims based on incognitos.

Everyplane stalls. A plane that is considered pretty much resilient against stalls is usually because it is a very maneuverable plane. However, maneuverable or no, push over the limit and every plane stalls. It's supposed to flop over when pushed too hard.

Or, give us a track of that "push 5 degrees and it flops" so we may examine if that is true, because the last time I tried the MkI, MkI FMod, MkIIb and MkIIc, I didn't notice anything wrong, except the plane stalls when stick input reaches full deflection, just like any other plane.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:24 PM
im not saying it would NEVER Stall

every plane will stall , but the Hurricane was famous for its low stall behaviour
i am quoting from a person i know who has flowen a Hurricane as well as from loads of fact finding on this A/C

it will just flop on its side a lot eaiser than other fighters in this patch when in reality it should have the lowest stall incidence of all the fighters bar the I-153

ill be the first to agree that in FB v1.0 its turn time was too quick ( 14 secs compared to 20-21 in the plane description )
& that in FB v1.0 for a low powered & light weight ( relativly ) A/C it picked up speed diving too quickly

& it stills has a supremely durable motor when you compare how quick the G & K Bf-109 will terminate ( another joke in FB )

but this plane from accounts i have read & heard from ( like 95% of all of them ) gave the description of a user freindly , confidence inspiring Aircraft

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:51 PM
I stand corrcted Sir I misread your post. Please accept my apologies.



http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/BP_Ham%20Sig.gif



Per Ardua Ad Astra

Hawgdog
08-18-2003, 01:03 PM
Vengeanze wrote:
- Rumours said that the detailed and well-based proof
- in your thread made Oleg recognize he was all wrong
- and he has now put his best men on reworking the FM
- of the Hurri.


Yes, brilliant review. I do however prefer "sign the petition to make Oleg change......." method.
And, no, I dont have your stapler.
http://www.virtualstapler.com/office_space/images/lumberg_nabs.jpg




<center></script>Bad Dog Brigade
Vulching can be a contact sport
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:17 PM
The Hurri is still great. Yesterday 4 of us in Hurris killed 6 F4s without getting a single bullet hole. All 4 of us and 4 of the F4s had human pilots.

It's not ueber now and it's far more balanced. Still very capable.

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:36 PM
Just because such and such aircraft has such and such stall speed dosnt mean you can manuever any way you want at that speed.There are alot of other variables involved beyond that.




Message Edited on 08/18/0309:09AM by WalterMitty

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:43 PM
Educate this person!

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:23 PM
Lithium1970 wrote:
- Educate this person!
-
-
-
-

which one? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

On the stalling, I've just had a go in QMB. I found that the Hurri 2c matches those Pilot Notes very well. This was just a simple test in straight flight, throttled right back, and backwards pressure on the stick to maintain level until I stalled.

Each time there was light buffet just before the stall and a big wing drop at the stall - normally left wing down. With no flap the stall is about 73 kts (84mph) and with flap down it stalled at 62 kts (71mph). That at least seems well modelled. However, I've not flown the Hurri much since the patch, so I can't comment on how well stalling in a turn, for example, is modelled.