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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:06 PM
i normaly set my convergence at 220 for allied planes.
now for the bf series and esp. the K, what convergence settings are u pro bnz using when diving on a target(plane)
should i rase it or stick with 220 for guns and cannon?
thanx

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:06 PM
i normaly set my convergence at 220 for allied planes.
now for the bf series and esp. the K, what convergence settings are u pro bnz using when diving on a target(plane)
should i rase it or stick with 220 for guns and cannon?
thanx

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 08:21 PM
Im not a Pro but can BnZ good with K4, i have mine at 160meters.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 10:15 PM
Is convergance an issue with the 109?

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 01:02 AM
Probably not since they are not wing mounted

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 01:27 AM
pudsterIV wrote:
- Probably not since they are not wing mounted
-
-

Yes it is, since it adjusts the distance then the bullet cross the gunsight, therefore determining when and where it will fall. With 109F and G's MG151/20, I set it to 200m since i must hit the dodging AI, and I got used to it anyways, I calculate the deflection by instinct(do not work every time though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif ) . 108 I dunno, i'm having problems with that bugger. Now try to make a convergence where your 20mm shells and MG bullets hit together, it will make quite some damage, especially MG131's with MG151/20's
And nothing above 250m /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 01:33 AM
Convergence is still an issue with fuselage mounted guns. Vertical as well as horizontal comes into play with the cannon armed planes. Cannon rounds begin to drop below the line of fire sooner than heavy MG (like .50 cal) rounds. If you only consider horizontal convergence when making your settings than you might not be getting full hitting power on your target.

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 01:37 AM
Convergence in a 109 is not a big issue since the MGs are nose mounted and the distance between the muzzles is less that 1 meter (MGs). Yet, a its best if you set the convergence to max 200 meters to make sure your Mg bullets hit in about the same spot. As for the 108 cannon, you can even set it to 1000 meters, it will be the same thing as 200.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 01:57 AM
Is not needed for a nose mounted guns is just use for win g monted ones

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 02:20 AM
it matters for nose mounted cannons too.. if you set it to 10000 m you see the flight trajectory flying higher, and if you set it to 100m, then the flight trajectory is pretty much flat.. naturally this does matter, I use 150-175 m for MK108, 200 m for MG151/20.. 175 for MG/FF on the Emils.



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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 02:30 AM
I set it at like 270 but it really doesn't matter for BnZ. Usually you are hitting them at point blank range on a high speed flyby.

All that convergence stuff doesn't make much of a difference online (provided you are somewhere in the ballpark of 300), because every server you enter you will be assigned a different slot in the "lag pecking order" Sometimes you can't miss, sometimes it seems your shots go right through the guy.


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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 03:18 AM
all depends on what plane, usually below 200m I use., the 6 .50s you can stagger convergence on, but they still seem realitively weak except at 150-200 m

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 03:41 AM
Just fly often. Notice at what range you like to fire and can constantly hit (usually about 300m) now reduce that by about fifty or sixty meters because you want your bullets to converge inside your effective fireing range, not at the edge of it. Convergence is a personal thing and what works for me might not for you.

The absolute sure convergence is 110m. you don't have to aim, just shoot when the enemy's plane is bigger than the reticule, works every time. most ppl like much longer convergences, but I say:

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:46 PM
thank you for the answers.
so practise is the keyword here/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:59 PM
Convergence does matter with nose mounted weapons. This is especially apparent with the high arc tragectory on the P-39's 37mm. cannon. If you set it to 300m and put your crosshairs right on a target at 100m, your cannon shells may very well pass over the target.

Regardless of position or type of guns, always set convergence for the distance you typically fire at. If you usually fire when an aircraft fills your gunsight, then set convergence for this distance. It's your first shot that counts.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:09 PM
Set your nose mounted cannons to 100m.

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I set BnZ to 250 and 150.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:18 PM
I have mine set at 500m... i have never adjusted this, is this why iam such a poor shot??? lol, i mean i suck... i get right behind somebody and lay into and looks like iam barely hitting them...

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:23 PM
Did you know with nose mounted weapons, convergence of 100 can be the same as convergence at 800?

Think about it


If your convergence is too short, the weapon has to actually point up (because guns start out below your line of sight, not level with it). Then after it passes 100m mark it is still going up, ands comes back down at 800.

Thats why short convergences suck because the trajectory can be way skewed.

Thats why it's best to find the convergence with the flattest trajectory, neither too short nor too long. Then you will have consistent drop offs, and can learn to hit targets from many distances. If your target is at 500 and you want to snipe, it is natural to aim a little above. But if your convergence is too high or too low, you can put the crosshairs on directly on him and it will fly above him.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:29 PM
JG26_Red wrote:
- I have mine set at 500m... i have never adjusted
- this, is this why iam such a poor shot??? lol, i
- mean i suck... i get right behind somebody and lay
- into and looks like iam barely hitting them...


Yep.
If you like to take level 37mm shots change your cannon convergence to 100m and you'll see a major difference.
100 meters takes the lob effect out of the shot.




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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:34 PM
No man!

100m is going to kill your accuracy.... the lob is even greater because the cannon has to point up to hit such a short convergence.

You won't be able to hit (snipe) shots at 300m without aiming below the target.

Some people don't understand....weapons start out below your line of sight. So if you set it at 100 you are going to be able to hit at 100 (but thats easy with any convergence) yet you are going to screw up your aiming for all other distances beyond that. (where aiming really matters)

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Message Edited on 11/06/0301:37PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:42 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Did you know with nose mounted weapons, convergence
- of 100 can be the same as convergence at 800?
-
- Think about it
-
-
- If your convergence is too short, the weapon has to
- actually point up (because guns start out below your
- line of sight, not level with it). Then after it
- passes 100m mark it is still going up, ands comes
- back down at 800.
-
- Thats why short convergences suck because the
- trajectory can be way skewed.
-
- Thats why it's best to find the convergence with the
- flattest trajectory, neither too short nor too long.
- Then you will have consistent drop offs, and can
- learn to hit targets from many distances. If your
- target is at 500 and you want to snipe, it is
- natural to aim a little above. But if your
- convergence is too high or too low, you can put the
- crosshairs on directly on him and it will fly above
- him.



A nose cannon set at 100 meters doesn't drop off until after 100 meters, anything out further than that is very easy to adjust your aim to. A TB-3 @ 500 meters out can be easily hit with a barrage of 37mm shots just by aiming slightly above and that's at 500 meters. In dogfights there's no sense in shooting from further than 200 meters. If you set your cannon convergence to 500 meters then you have to account for the rise AND the fall, instead of just the fall. Your chances of missing increase substantially.



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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:52 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- No man!
-
- 100m is going to kill your accuracy.... the lob is
- even greater because the cannon has to point up to
- hit such a short convergence.
-
- You won't be able to hit (snipe) shots at 300m
- without aiming below the target.
-
- Some people don't understand....weapons start out
- below your line of sight. So if you set it at 100
- you are going to be able to hit at 100 (but thats
- easy with any convergence) yet you are going to
- screw up your aiming for all other distances beyond
- that. (where aiming really matters)


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It didn't kill my accuracy with the P-39 at all Ray.
How long have you been flying the P-39 exclusively?

You convergence has more purpose than just aiming.
If you set your MGs convergence to 1000 meters on a P-39 then what will happen?
Set to 200-250 your MGs will have a much better concentrated damage zone.

Btw, if his aim was already bad in his opinion then why not see if 100 meters is better for him because when it comes right down to it convergence is all preference.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:54 PM
BpGemini wrote:
- A nose cannon set at 100 meters doesn't drop off
- until after 100 meters

This is wrong. If you set it too short, like I said it has to actually aim upwards awkwardly in order to hit that spot that is so close. And after it flies through that spot, it is still going up.

Your nose cannon does not originate from your head, it originates below your head .. 100m is barely any drop off at all



Like I said if you set it at 100 it will be flying upwards through the 100 and come back down at 800. You want to find a convergence where travel above your ginsight line is none.



- In dogfights there's no sense in
- shooting from further than 200 meters.

Again this is wrong. Maybe on 90 degree deflection shots but for head to heads and sniping (someone running from you) you can hit at 300m or 500m respectively

I say set it to like 300m, so by the time it converges it is traveling flat, and dropping off after that (100m is too short)

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Message Edited on 11/06/0301:56PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 08:08 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- BpGemini wrote:
-- A nose cannon set at 100 meters doesn't drop off
-- until after 100 meters
-
- This is wrong. If you set it too short, like I said
- it has to actually aim upwards awkwardly in order to
- hit that spot that is so close. And after it flies
- through that spot, it is still going up.
-
- Your nose cannon does not originate from your head,
- it originates below your head .. 100m is barely any
- drop off at all
-
- Like I said if you set it at 100 it will be flying
- upwards through the 100 and come back down at 800.
- You want to find a convergence where travel above
- your ginsight line is none.


The aim is upwards. I don't argue that but you miss the point of the drop off. You say that the lob is greater on a shorter convergence. In theory you're right. You want the shell to drop on the convergence point at 100 meters. To do so you'd have to angle the shot way up so it will drop where you want, right? The thing is once you get so close the shot no longer tries to lob into position. It still has to travel up but not up over and back down to the convergence point. A ride up from the nose cannon to the cross hairs point is not as steep of an angle as you think because it's not cutting past the line of convergence any longer.



RayBanJockey wrote:
- Again this is wrong. Maybe on 90 degree deflection
- shots but for head to heads and sniping (someone
- running from you) you can hit at 300m or 500m
- respectively
-
- I say set it to like 300m, so by the time it
- converges it is traveling flat, and dropping off
- after that (100m is too short)


You can hit someone from 300-500 meters away with 100m convergences.
Is it taking you so long to hit with your cannon shots that they start to pull away from you?





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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 08:19 PM
Well, you can hit someone at 700m with a 100/300/500/800 convergence (any). the question is whats the best.

If your convergence is at 100 though, if you have a straight/level snipe at someone at 500m, if your crosshairs are exactly on the target, it will fly above them. You would think thoguh that at such a distence you would want to aim a little above them. This is where setting your convergence at like 300 is better, so when your bullet reaches the convergence, it is not still traveling upwards, but traveling level with the gunsight.

The best convergence is where the bullet/cannon is traveling parrallel with the line of gunsight when it reaches it (and that means neither too short nor too long)

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Message Edited on 11/06/0302:20PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 08:35 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Well, you can hit someone at 700m with a
- 100/300/500/800 convergence (any). the question is
- whats the best.
-
- If your convergence is at 100 though, if you have a
- straight/level snipe at someone at 500m, if your
- crosshairs are exactly on the target, it will fly
- above them. You would think thoguh that at such a
- distence you would want to aim a little above them.
- This is where setting your convergence at like 300
- is better, so when your bullet reaches the
- convergence, it is not still traveling upwards, but
- traveling level with the gunsight.


In my personal experience, your fear of 100m convergences is a little exaggerated. Like I said if a target is flying straight and level 300-500 meters away then I can aim just (very) slightly above the target to score a hit. It seems you think that shell is going to keep traveling upwards until it's in outer space.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif J/k

It begins to level off a lot sooner than you think.



RayBanJockey wrote:
- The best convergence is where the bullet/cannon is
- traveling parrallel with the line of gunsight when
- it reaches it (and that means neither too short nor
- too long)


You mean the tightest run with the convergence line. That what I'm talking about too. The run that doesn't travel too many meters above or below the line to reach its destination, which is my point in the above statement. At 100 meters the shell travels up to the convergence point, passes it to a slighter degree than even a 300-meter convergence and then begins its decline, a tighter line.


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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 08:56 PM
ok, but with any convergence setting, it would be an art, based on experience, to hit a level flying target at different distances.
someone who set his convergence at say 200,could hit at every distance with alot of practice,based on his experience with the degree of deflection needed for a given distance.
the same for someone who set it at 150 or 350.
but we where also talking about bnz.
does it really matter when you dive on your target and pull the trigger at close range?

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Message Edited on 11/06/0308:04PM by jobace

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:02 PM
jobace wrote:
- ok, but with any convergence setting, it would be an
- art, based on experience, to hit a level flying
- target at different distances.
- someone who set his convergence at say 200,could hit
- at every distance with alot of practice,based on his
- experience with the degree of delection needed for a
- given distance.
- the same for someone who set it at 150 or 350.
- but we where also talking about bnz.
- does it really matter when you dive on your target
- and pull the trigger at close range?



Like I was telling Ray, when it comes right down to many things in this game it's all personal preference.
Personally I don't change my convergence much for a BnZ because I'm still going to pull the trigger at a close distance.

Hitting ground targets is a little different and I'd make a slightly larger change in that case.


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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:07 PM
so lets practise /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:10 PM
For 1.2b(leaked):

100meters for MG and cannon, no matter what guns what MG's. It works. Only for rockets do you need different setting.

In real situations differences of 100 meters in convergence settings means zilch. 100 meters is good for real distances from 200 to 0 meters.

As a rule of thumb never fire unless the fscker's wingtips span the reticle width or you mean to distract it, not hit it. Or you're desperate, which is quite common ;-)

For bombers, just wait till the bomber fills twice the rectangle. This means 150 meters which in turn means you'll do loads of damage even if your aim is like mine.

For shotgun fighters (P-47, P-51) this is somewhat different... if the opponent is 109 or 190 or zero, you can spray from farther away.

The Ki-84 is very sturdy. Treat as if it was a Yak.

LaGG is still a friggin tank. Just ignore it. No use wasting ammo unless you're positively, 100% sure you can hit the wing root.


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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:17 PM
jobace wrote:
- so lets practise /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



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<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> P-39 Vet since the original IL-2 Sturmovik </table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> Soon to be P-63 Vet </table style></center>

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<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)">www.blitzpigs.com</center> </table style>

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:23 PM
<table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=4)">Cherry</table style>

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> P-39 Vet since the original IL-2 Sturmovik </table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> Soon to be P-63 Vet </table style></center>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)">www.blitzpigs.com</center> </table style>