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View Full Version : FOR OLEG All about German bombs, variety, effect, quantity........*56k alert*



XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:09 PM
I collected some informations about the German ammunition. I hope you have a look at it because many thing are a bit different in releation to the reality. I hope you can use this information for il2FB. Give me pls an answer if you read it! post something or write an email at falkster53@hotmail.com

>>1. The Power of german SC Bombs(drawing)

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_1.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_2.jpg


>>2. The "Abwurfbeh√¬§lter" AB-Bombs. In il2 FB we have the possebility to choose AB250 or AB500. But that is only the covering. Correctly one could equip the containers with different ammunition. For example with Sd-4hl fragment bombs against tanks. I think the AB250/500 am equipped in IL2 Fb with worst shells. Therefore this bad achievement also does seem to me is something with the bombs in the play is wrong.

To more information see sketches.
AB500:

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_3.jpg


AB250:

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_4.jpg


>>3. German Heavy Bombs. Different weight bombs were not used which into IL2 FB unfortunately are present. The bombs were not very often used more in addition further down. The following were used:
SB-1000 SB-1000A SC-1000L SC-1000L2 SD-1700 SC-1800 SC-2000 SB-2500 SC-2500 SC-5000 Im talking just about SB SC and SD Bombs there are aso PC and PD Bombs!

The fameous SC1800 Bomb:

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_5.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_6.jpg

Sure a HE 111 cant carry a SC-2500 or SC-5000.......

>>4. Ship Attack. In IL2FB Ships get only damage if the timmer is on O and only with direct hits. The reality is different. But in the following picture one can see that the bombs underwater often detonated. No direct hit had to be obtained around a ship to sink. With the following picture the fuze was set to 5 seconds. Also with direct hit a time fuse attitude of O sec. would be wrong. The bomb would explode then on the deck and not under the deck.

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_8.jpg


>>5.Quantity of the assigned bombs of the east front in a month!
have a look at the SC-1800
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_9.jpg


>>6.We talked allready about the SD4HL Bomb in the AB topic. Here one sees the blowing up pattern at a T-34 tank. The T-34 tank was condemned durable on case of each. The Sc-250 and Sc-500 bombs showed few against tanks effect, if they did not obtain a direct hit. BUT With 3m distance tore it however the riveted tank housing apart or it caught fire the Diesel fuel. With 6m and more near the passengers died by the air pressure.

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_10.jpg


>>7.The Wgr. 21 Are strongly under-modelled in IL2 FB. To obtain it assigned over direct hits! One fired the Wgr.21 into the bombers groups, there exploded the shells and caused at the bombers heavy damages due to fragmentation effect. Thus some bombers fell different many from the formation the partial to the crash led off. One want-comes side effect was the following. The formations were driven apart by the violent explosion and unrest donation. Thus the hunters could concentrate on individual bombers. The Wgr21 would have been hardly used. The effect would be as been in il2 FB....... The Range of the Wgr.21 is 1200 meters

"First success with the WGr 21 was obtained on 17 August 1943. From 376 attacking B-17, the pig ford and Regensburg attacked, became 60, i.e.. 16% shot, partly with Wgr 21. Success was still larger on 14 October 1943, than with the attack of the 8. USAAF on pig ford were shot by 291 B-17-Bombern 60, 17 on the return flight were lost and 131 to the return any longer to repair were not."


>>8. the R4m Rockets Are also strongly under-modelled! The range of this rockets is! The range of this rocket is 1800METERS in in a nearly straight flight path! ! and not 200m.....The reduction the flight speed is not also correctly however that is again another topic.......

"Success was excellent. With an employment without own loss from a federation of 425 B-17, 25-Maschinen were shot. Apart from the ME 262 also the rocket-driven fighter ME 163 was equipped with R 4/M. The security hunter Bachem Ba 349 should in the nose a firing plant, which receive so-called "bee honeycomb", to 28 pipes. This led however with the firing attempt to the explosion of the nose. A changed bee honeycomb to 24 pipes could not be tested no more. The Blohm and Voss Voss-Jaeger P. 212, which should receive a similar armament, remained project. But outdated machines of the sample L.G. 190 even still obtained in April 1945 outstanding successes. Thus 24 L.G. destroyed 190 from a strong four-engined federation 40 machines likewise without own losses. Altogether in the short assignment nearly 500 enemy machines were destroyed by R 4/m-rockets. To end of war about 10000 projectiles were finished, of it a majority in the sudetenlaendischen backup in Kratzau."

Here a pic how they used the rockets....
In Highposition because the size of the forum........

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_11.jpg


>>9. Many German planes can not carry all "R√ľsts√¬§tze" loudout. But i have not enough time to post all of them here. Mainly im missing the 8x 50kg Loudout fot the
fw190F-8 ( 109F series can aso carry bombs)

I know it goes here only around bombs. Probably for many the most insignificant at the play. I am also the opinion that first the correct FM and CEM must be made! Mainly no more lagg in online mission!!! In addition, in things bombs it gives some which to be changed should! I fly at the dearest Jabo employments that also the reason is why I this post office made here!

In the future i hope the german planes can carry also heavy bombs (see Pe-8) also make happy I on the coming bomb Hs-293.
The "Panzerblitz" Anti tank rockets for the FW190 would be also welcome. At the conclusion I would like to excuse still for my very bad English... at time im learing french in west switzerland in some years perhabs english in england /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If somebody aso found some bug around the Topic german bombs post them here.

I invested 1,5 hours in these thread. I do not hope in vain...........


cherrs Falkster /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:09 PM
I collected some informations about the German ammunition. I hope you have a look at it because many thing are a bit different in releation to the reality. I hope you can use this information for il2FB. Give me pls an answer if you read it! post something or write an email at falkster53@hotmail.com

>>1. The Power of german SC Bombs(drawing)

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_1.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_2.jpg


>>2. The "Abwurfbeh√¬§lter" AB-Bombs. In il2 FB we have the possebility to choose AB250 or AB500. But that is only the covering. Correctly one could equip the containers with different ammunition. For example with Sd-4hl fragment bombs against tanks. I think the AB250/500 am equipped in IL2 Fb with worst shells. Therefore this bad achievement also does seem to me is something with the bombs in the play is wrong.

To more information see sketches.
AB500:

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_3.jpg


AB250:

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_4.jpg


>>3. German Heavy Bombs. Different weight bombs were not used which into IL2 FB unfortunately are present. The bombs were not very often used more in addition further down. The following were used:
SB-1000 SB-1000A SC-1000L SC-1000L2 SD-1700 SC-1800 SC-2000 SB-2500 SC-2500 SC-5000 Im talking just about SB SC and SD Bombs there are aso PC and PD Bombs!

The fameous SC1800 Bomb:

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_5.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_6.jpg

Sure a HE 111 cant carry a SC-2500 or SC-5000.......

>>4. Ship Attack. In IL2FB Ships get only damage if the timmer is on O and only with direct hits. The reality is different. But in the following picture one can see that the bombs underwater often detonated. No direct hit had to be obtained around a ship to sink. With the following picture the fuze was set to 5 seconds. Also with direct hit a time fuse attitude of O sec. would be wrong. The bomb would explode then on the deck and not under the deck.

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_8.jpg


>>5.Quantity of the assigned bombs of the east front in a month!
have a look at the SC-1800
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_9.jpg


>>6.We talked allready about the SD4HL Bomb in the AB topic. Here one sees the blowing up pattern at a T-34 tank. The T-34 tank was condemned durable on case of each. The Sc-250 and Sc-500 bombs showed few against tanks effect, if they did not obtain a direct hit. BUT With 3m distance tore it however the riveted tank housing apart or it caught fire the Diesel fuel. With 6m and more near the passengers died by the air pressure.

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_10.jpg


>>7.The Wgr. 21 Are strongly under-modelled in IL2 FB. To obtain it assigned over direct hits! One fired the Wgr.21 into the bombers groups, there exploded the shells and caused at the bombers heavy damages due to fragmentation effect. Thus some bombers fell different many from the formation the partial to the crash led off. One want-comes side effect was the following. The formations were driven apart by the violent explosion and unrest donation. Thus the hunters could concentrate on individual bombers. The Wgr21 would have been hardly used. The effect would be as been in il2 FB....... The Range of the Wgr.21 is 1200 meters

"First success with the WGr 21 was obtained on 17 August 1943. From 376 attacking B-17, the pig ford and Regensburg attacked, became 60, i.e.. 16% shot, partly with Wgr 21. Success was still larger on 14 October 1943, than with the attack of the 8. USAAF on pig ford were shot by 291 B-17-Bombern 60, 17 on the return flight were lost and 131 to the return any longer to repair were not."


>>8. the R4m Rockets Are also strongly under-modelled! The range of this rockets is! The range of this rocket is 1800METERS in in a nearly straight flight path! ! and not 200m.....The reduction the flight speed is not also correctly however that is again another topic.......

"Success was excellent. With an employment without own loss from a federation of 425 B-17, 25-Maschinen were shot. Apart from the ME 262 also the rocket-driven fighter ME 163 was equipped with R 4/M. The security hunter Bachem Ba 349 should in the nose a firing plant, which receive so-called "bee honeycomb", to 28 pipes. This led however with the firing attempt to the explosion of the nose. A changed bee honeycomb to 24 pipes could not be tested no more. The Blohm and Voss Voss-Jaeger P. 212, which should receive a similar armament, remained project. But outdated machines of the sample L.G. 190 even still obtained in April 1945 outstanding successes. Thus 24 L.G. destroyed 190 from a strong four-engined federation 40 machines likewise without own losses. Altogether in the short assignment nearly 500 enemy machines were destroyed by R 4/m-rockets. To end of war about 10000 projectiles were finished, of it a majority in the sudetenlaendischen backup in Kratzau."

Here a pic how they used the rockets....
In Highposition because the size of the forum........

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_11.jpg


>>9. Many German planes can not carry all "R√ľsts√¬§tze" loudout. But i have not enough time to post all of them here. Mainly im missing the 8x 50kg Loudout fot the
fw190F-8 ( 109F series can aso carry bombs)

I know it goes here only around bombs. Probably for many the most insignificant at the play. I am also the opinion that first the correct FM and CEM must be made! Mainly no more lagg in online mission!!! In addition, in things bombs it gives some which to be changed should! I fly at the dearest Jabo employments that also the reason is why I this post office made here!

In the future i hope the german planes can carry also heavy bombs (see Pe-8) also make happy I on the coming bomb Hs-293.
The "Panzerblitz" Anti tank rockets for the FW190 would be also welcome. At the conclusion I would like to excuse still for my very bad English... at time im learing french in west switzerland in some years perhabs english in england /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If somebody aso found some bug around the Topic german bombs post them here.

I invested 1,5 hours in these thread. I do not hope in vain...........


cherrs Falkster /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:36 PM
VERY GOOD research here. BUMP!! - especially for the Panzerblitz/Panzerschreck loadouts /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . This one here is also very interesting:

JG53-Falkster wrote:
Apart from the ME 262 also the
- rocket-driven fighter ME 163 was equipped with R
- 4/M.

I bump this little piece because we'll get this bird in the patch. So I really hope for R4Ms, too. BTW they were also used on 190Ds.

Bugs concerning bombs??

AB bombs don't work correctly. Offline I get no scores/credit for killing targets and online they do no damage at all.

BTW you mentioned the SD4HL load could kill T-34s. Very interesting. Here's an extract from the 1.02b update of Il-2:

Notes on the Munition Dispensers

There are two new submunition dispensers at your disposal - AB 250 containing 108 SD 2 "Butterfly" bomblets, and AB 500 with 74 SD 4HL anti-personnel bombs. When using these, "Bomb Delay" in the arming screen sets the time between the container release and explosion. For safety reasons the time cannot be less than 3 seconds.

So the AB-500 should be "THE" tank killer bomb. Most funny is, that we had those ABs not working for 1,5 years in Il-2. This never got fixed. Now in FB, it only works offline and we don'T get credit for killing only soft targets like trucks and static AC /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif .


<hr>

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:48 PM
*b√ľmp*


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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:57 PM
Very, very good research from you Falkster. You did a great job /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gruß

Chris Brendel
13/JG5

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13/JG5 (www.jg5.de)
Virtual Online War (www.vow-hq.com)

Und weg!!

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 02:03 PM
great work "Falkster" !

also the Bf110 can load a SC1000 with a SC250 !





http://mitglied.lycos.de/kubanskiloewe/110missing.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 02:24 PM
i have here a list of the bombs that were used by the KG51 "Edelweiss"

*AB 23
*AB 26
*BM 1000 "Monika" mit Bremsschirm
*BSB 700
*Flam BC 250
*SB 1000/41 -- Spezialausf√ľhrung mit elliptischem Querschnitt und Bremsschrim f√ľr die Me 410 (special 1000kg-bomb for the Me 410)
*SBe 50
*SD 50
*SD 250
*SD 2
*SC 10
*SC 50
*SC 250
*SC 500
*SC 1000 "Hermann"
*PC 500
*PC 1000
*PC 1400
*PC 1800 "Satan"

that list is not complete!



now the different typ of bombs:

Splitterbomben SC -- Splitterbombe, cylindrisch
SD -- Splitterbombe. Dickwand
SB -- Sprengbombe
SBe -- Sprengbombe, Beton
Brandbomben B -- Brandbombe
Flam BC -- Flammbrandbombe, cylindrisch
LC -- Leuchtbombe, cylindirsch
Minenbombe BM -- Bombenmine
Panzerdruchschlagsbomben PC -- Panzerbombe, cylindrisch
PD -- Panzerbombe, Dickwand


there is a lack of german bombs in IL-2 and FB, especially the big bombs are missing.


http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WW110c.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 03:35 PM
*bomb* err *bump*
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Especially important:
AB cluster bombs could be carried by ALL aircraft with an ETC capable of carrying 250 or 500 kg!
In the JG 51 chronicle, there is a passage: "due to the introduction of AB cluster bombs, even pilots totally inexperienced in ground attack can get good results"
That was 1944, and they were flying 109G-6.
Btw, I also read of a AB 70 bomb, which was carried by Ju 87Ds of the Nachschlachtgruppen (night harrasment groups).
It carried 4-10 smaller bombs or propaganda leaflets.

http://people.freenet.de/JCRitter/1sigklein.jpg


Message Edited on 06/15/0302:39PM by theRealAntEater

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 03:39 PM
Euhhh, I have something to say about the WGR 21. You don't have to make a direct schoot. I'll e-mail you with the trk I made to show you what I done. If you want make a link to it make it, I don't know enough about internet to do that by myself.
For my shoot : convergence : 400m, delay 2.8s.
Whan I think I am at the good distance I fire my WGR 21. Thn they exploaded near the bomber and bring it. But the distance of damages are very low. But you will see on the trk.

@+ et bon vol √ tous, Jabo_Rot-Curt (RotCurtSed)!

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 03:40 PM
nice Post Daniel

*bump*

MfG Frank

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 03:43 PM
Oh, sorry don't read enough. My fire distance is abouve 600m. And I can Hit only one bomber. When tried to hit more, damages weren't strong enough.

@+ et bon vol √ tous, Jabo_Rot-Curt (RotCurtSed)!

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 04:02 PM
thanks anyway jaborotsed!


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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 05:20 PM
JG53-Falkster wrote:

- >>6.We talked allready about the SD4HL Bomb in the
- AB topic. Here one sees the blowing up pattern at a
- T-34 tank. The T-34 tank was condemned durable on
- case of each. The Sc-250 and Sc-500 bombs showed few
- against tanks effect, if they did not obtain a
- direct hit. BUT With 3m distance tore it however the
- riveted tank housing apart or it caught fire the
- Diesel fuel. With 6m and more near the passengers
- died by the air pressure.
-

When I wrote that near misses on tanks by bombs would cause crew casualties due to shock waves going through the armor, I got replied that I'm full of it.

6m away and crew died. This would be the SC-500?

There is also a larger distance for concussions that will knock men out for some time and leave them disoriented and unable to perform which means the tank is disabled during that time. The difference should not be much, blast radius effects drop very quickly with distance so 2x as far is much, much less than 1/2 as much.

I learned these things from a tank crewman I knew when I was in the Army. Bombs and big shells do not have to hit or break the armor to make effect.

I would like to know what your source information is. Of course I would also like to know if it has an English translation.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 05:27 PM
The most things i wrote are aso written in the book.280 Sites only about german bombs....

Wolfgang Fleischer
Deutsche Abwurfmunition bis 1945
Motorbuchverlag

This man wrote until know only about Military technique History. He is aso the topicleader in the Military technique historique Museum Dresden.

An english translation does not exist.

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 06:06 PM
Nice post, Falkster!


And don't forget the SC1000 for Ju-87 Stuka, with which Hans-Ulrich Rudel sunk the "Marat"!!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

(Not only "damaged", as was written in Dev.Updates)



Message Edited on 06/15/0305:08PM by TheRealMatrix

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 06:26 PM
Interesting stuff here:

http://balsi.de/werfergr3.jpg


Very much looks like a Bf-110G. Now look at all those loadouts. It's not one, but all together:

1 2x 20mm pod
2 300l tanks
4 WGr.21

I bet there are several other mixes possible like

1 2x 20mm pod
2 250kg bomb (as the ETC for the 300l tank also can carry a 250 bomb; it's also an issue for 190s)
4 WGr.21


<hr>

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XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 09:31 PM
bump

Gruss NaB


http://home.teleport.ch/cuba/Image2.jpg



----------------------------------------

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Sich weiss Rechenschaft zu geben,
Bleibt im Dunkeln unerfahren,
Mag von Tag zu Tage leben"

J. W. Goethe

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 10:56 PM
Very good work apart from your "improvable" English, Falkster !

I was also very unhappy about non-working ABs in IL2 and first of all about non-working rockets still in FB, WGr.21 and R4M really dont behave like their historical counterparts !

And of course, we all wanted the Panzerblitz-loadout for the F8 ! As it is now, the F8 is not any better for groundattacks than a A8 and worse than a A9.

Greetings
Jordan

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 03:04 AM
NaBkin wrote:
- bump
-
- Gruss NaB



BUMP



n8

http://home.t-online.de/home/WupDich/wappen.jpg


In der Lobby als VonWittig unterwegs.

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 07:39 AM
bumperdibump

Kommandeur III/JG53*Hammer

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 09:44 AM
Willey wrote:
- Interesting stuff here:
-
http://balsi.de/werfergr3.jpg -
-
- Very much looks like a Bf-110G. Now look at all
- those loadouts. It's not one, but all together:
-
- 1 2x 20mm pod
- 2 300l tanks
- 4 WGr.21
-
- I bet there are several other mixes possible like
-
- 1 2x 20mm pod
- 2 250kg bomb (as the ETC for the 300l tank also can
- carry a 250 bomb; it's also an issue for 190s)
- 4 WGr.21
-
------------------------------------------------
or instad of the GunPod
2x250 bombs

>

6xSC250
4xWGr.21

cool this would be my fav G-Attack plane!

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 09:45 AM
Hi:

1. the He-111 was incapable of loading the Sc-5000 as mentioned in the original post. Maximum loading was hte SC2500 or 2500kgs.

2.Many of these load-out details have been given to Oleg already (By Butch2k and others) and they may be incorporated on the upcoming add-on or future ones. I trust Oleg will do whatever he can to ammend or add some of these more critical load-outs.

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/sig02.gif>

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 10:51 AM
Great post Falkster. Do you have any info on German Bomb Fusing ? Specficaaly method of operation in relation to Time delays or DEtonation Delay elements ?



Ps=V(T-D)/W
III/JG11_IvanK

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 01:51 PM
bump



<hr>

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 02:19 PM
so far as i remember was butch2k in contact with olegs team about the loadouts at german planes.

we have to wait /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif




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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 02:38 PM
JG53Frankyboy wrote:
- so far as i remember was butch2k in contact with
- olegs team about the loadouts at german planes.

He was in contact with Oleg since Il-2... or even beta, I don't know. I remeber butch said he was going to convince Olegthat the FW ammo counts are wrong even before we got the A-8 - which is also wrong (200 inner MG 151/20 shells in FB, 250rpg historical) - and it'S still not changed in FB. I bet that was not the only thing. The loadouts weren't less in those days /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif .


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

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<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 05:29 PM
Willey wrote:
-
- JG53Frankyboy wrote:
-- so far as i remember was butch2k in contact with
-- olegs team about the loadouts at german planes.
-
- He was in contact with Oleg since Il-2... or even
- beta, I don't know. I remeber butch said he was
- going to convince Olegthat the FW ammo counts are
- wrong even before we got the A-8 - which is also
- wrong (200 inner MG 151/20 shells in FB, 250rpg
- historical) - and it'S still not changed in FB. I
- bet that was not the only thing. The loadouts
- weren't less in those days
-


In FB all Fw190 execpt F-8 have 250 rpg for inner Mg151/20, F-8 has 200 rpg.

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 08:32 PM
bump

Gruss NaB


http://home.teleport.ch/cuba/Image2.jpg



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"Wie man in den Wald ruft, so t√¬∂nt es zur√ľck"

----------------------------------------
"Wer nicht von dreitausend Jahren
Sich weiss Rechenschaft zu geben,
Bleibt im Dunkeln unerfahren,
Mag von Tag zu Tage leben"

J. W. Goethe

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 10:39 PM
bomb√¬∂√¬∂hsch


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:00 PM
ich will auch mal....
hehe
ich kanns!

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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 02:55 AM
I believe there is something else wrong with the R4M rockets besides range. From what I've read in various books, all 24 rockets were fired outside gun range in one simultaneous salvo, not singly as in FB. The time-fused rockets were supposed to scatter and explode inside a bomber formation, with the intention of breaking up the formation. I read through the scans above hoping for a specific comment on this, but a lot of the text is offscreen. Perhaps some of the missing text in the original post goes into more detail on this. I do know that ME262 ace Walter Krupinski said all 24 rockets were fired at once.

I hope Oleg sees this thread (I believe he can read German too), and incorporates some of this information on munitions into a future patch.

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 09:56 AM
*bump*

<hr><p align=center>Servus!<font size=+1>
Alex alias I/JG68Alex</font>
http://www.brooksart.com/Alpine.jpg

"Es gibt keine schlechten Flugzeuge, nur schlechte Piloten"
Die Homepage des I/JG68 (http://520082849836-0000.bei.t-online.de/)
<hr>

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 10:07 AM
that was also the way they where used in EAW, verry effective against bombers ! (in EAW)

xenios wrote:
-
- I believe there is something else wrong with the R4M
- rockets besides range. From what I've read in
- various books, all 24 rockets were fired outside gun
- range in one simultaneous salvo, not singly as in
- FB. The time-fused rockets were supposed to scatter
- and explode inside a bomber formation, with the
- intention of breaking up the formation. I read
- through the scans above hoping for a specific
- comment on this, but a lot of the text is offscreen.
- Perhaps some of the missing text in the original
- post goes into more detail on this. I do know that
- ME262 ace Walter Krupinski said all 24 rockets were
- fired at once.



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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 02:31 PM
another bump...

<hr><p align=center>Servus!<font size=+1>
Alex alias I/JG68Alex</font>
http://www.brooksart.com/Alpine.jpg

"Es gibt keine schlechten Flugzeuge, nur schlechte Piloten"
Die Homepage des I/JG68 (http://520082849836-0000.bei.t-online.de/)
<hr>

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 04:38 PM
All your bombs data is wrong. We have right bombs simulation in FB. You is wrong. Be sure.



I'm just anticipating Oleg's responses based on past replies from him when his stuff was challenged. But a big bump anyway!





_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 05:47 PM
I guess most ppl have already seen these but here is literally tons of LW ordnance with some pics and data:

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bombs.html

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 05:59 PM
schrump!




---------------------------------------



under 30k?

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 08:39 PM
R4M were all fired in one salvo because of several things. 1. only one attack needed. You could also do 12 passes with more precise aiming - but this would give the gunners some time, too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . 2. higher probability to hit 1 or 2 bombers - or even more. But that still doesn't mean they could not be fired in pairs /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . Maybe they had a switch for that... imagine them @ EF attacking Il-2s. All rockets shot at once and they're all missing... in that situation more "tries" are much better. So the way it's now makes sense. Heinkel's bombs are also not dropped in one salvo when pressing the pickle button.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:31 PM
plumps

Kommandeur III/JG53*Hammer

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:59 PM
clumps!

---------------------------------------



under 30k?

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:15 PM
bump and good luck

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<center>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Death you die from, me you have to live with/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </p>

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 05:43 PM
bumbing run..XD

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 09:01 PM
Willey wrote:
- R4M were all fired in one salvo because of several
- things. 1. only one attack needed. You could also do
- 12 passes with more precise aiming - but this would
- give the gunners some time, too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . 2. higher probability to hit 1
- or 2 bombers - or even more. But that still doesn't
- mean they could not be fired in pairs /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . Maybe they had a switch for
- that... imagine them @ EF attacking Il-2s. All
- rockets shot at once and they're all missing... in
- that situation more "tries" are much better. So the
- way it's now makes sense. Heinkel's bombs are also
- not dropped in one salvo when pressing the pickle
- button.

There's no question that firing R4M rockets in pairs is a better option in the sim, as it is now it's like having an extra pair of cannons on the wings. But unfortunately that's not the way they operated historically, according to the pilots who actually flew Me-262s.

I remember in the original prepatch IL2 the FW's cannons and MGs fired separatedly, and I preferred it that way. Then some people posted here that in fact the MGs and inboard cannons fired together and the outboard cannons fired separately, and Oleg corrected it in a patch. Most people would have preferred the old setup, but the correction was more accurate. Since we all worship at the altar of accuracy, we should hope these ordinance corrections are also written in, for better or worse.

It's funny you mention the possibility of hitting multiple bombers with one salvo, since this actually did happen. Here's what Gen. Walter Krupinski said about the R4M: "Toward the end of the war, a few of our Me 262s had this air-to-air rocket, the R4M. We attacked the bombers every time from behind with R4M, and the bombers pulled up immediately when they saw the detonation of the rocket, and their very close formation spread out a bit. I was flying with Gen. Galland on one attack, and one of his rockets hit a wing of a bomber and the rest of the aircraft landed on the the wing of another bomber and so two bombers were destroyed with one rocket. It was very effective, but you had to shoot it only in one shot, and we had only a few of them."

Apparently the pilot did not have the option of firing the rockets in single pairs, only all at once. In FB, this is not very useful since we are not facing 1000+ heavy bomber formations, but instead groups of 4 light bombers. But that's how it was.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:28 AM
bumb

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:53 AM
Absolutely freaking great thread ! ! ! !




http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vez√©r√ľnk a B√°tors√°g, K√¬*s√©r√¬Ķnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 02:23 PM
True true.

<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 06:49 PM
This weekend i try to post all german loudouts for all germn planes if possible. A lot of work but....
Perhaps also other stuff about ammunition.

regards

falkster

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 07:56 PM
It may make you feel little easier about the matter of available ordnance, that this thing has been noted by developers and it may see some future development.

I think at the latest it would be good place to introduce new ordnance when Ju-88 comes out(of course it could have been done when He-111 came out as well!). There will be some new ordnance coming then for sure, but exaqctly what, I couldn't really say.


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:20 PM
***Bump***
Great topic, hope to see more!

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 09:38 AM
I also worry about the undermodelled R4M and the Werfergranate. More loadouts would be great too. Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, Big bombs, BUMP /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif !!!!!

http://home.pages.at/bundesheer-infoecke/th-stg77.jpg


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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 10:15 AM
Ok, go here, you've the choice for the 190 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pbase.com/image/18045380

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:03 AM
If the Mk-108 is fixed, bombs,droptanks,and 20mm gunpods added for the 109F-4, the rockets added to the 109's, and they make a 109G-2 with the G-6late style canopy- i'll shut up!

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:07 AM
CHDT wrote:
-Ok, go here, you've the choice for the 190

- http://www.pbase.com/image/18045380

-Cheers,

-

WGR 28/32 ?!?!? The first time I hear of this thing..... cooooooooooool /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://home.pages.at/bundesheer-infoecke/th-stg77.jpg


http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images/flagge.gif



Message Edited on 06/20/0311:09AM by FliegerAas

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:09 AM
JG53-Falkster wrote:
- This weekend i try to post all german loudouts for
- all germn planes if possible. A lot of work but....
- Perhaps also other stuff about ammunition.
I already did the same for Oleg, but i don't know which ones will make it into the patch. I based my work directly on original sources so as to be sure, designations as well as the loadout are historical.
I'll try to publish them in there.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:15 AM
CHDT wrote:
- Ok, go here, you've the choice for the 190 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- <a href="http://www.pbase.com/image/18045380"
- target=_blank>http://www.pbase.com/image/18045380<
- /a>
-
-
- Cheers,
-
-



AH HA! So the 109F COULD carry gunpods!.....WHERE ARE THEY? I DEMAND THEY BE ADDED IN THE PATCH!

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:10 PM
Only the 109F-4/R1 could use the R√ľstsatz VII (MG151 gunpods), the other Friedrich did not have the necessary wiring in the wings and fuselage (Baureihen 109.882, 883, 884). This modification was introduced quite late, during F-4 production, hence the rustzustand (/R1) designation to differenciate between standard F-4, and gunpod-capable F-4.

Butch

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 06:48 PM
Would be great if you post all german loudouts here butch!

Do you have all loudouts for each german plane?

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:13 PM
bumpage


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<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("June 21, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n√¬§chste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl√¬§uft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/transparent36.gif";o.height=36;o.width=36;a=document.all.tags["td");for[i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["Willey")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Focke-Wulf Testpilot";</script><font color=000040>

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 09:52 AM
b√ľmp

<hr><p align=center>Servus!<font size=+1>
Alex alias I/JG68Alex</font>
http://www.brooksart.com/Alpine.jpg

"Es gibt keine schlechten Flugzeuge, nur schlechte Piloten"
Die Homepage des I/JG68 (http://520082849836-0000.bei.t-online.de/)
<hr>

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:44 PM
German Gun Weapons:

Technical Datas Heavy Guns:
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_13.jpg


Tecnical Datas Guns:
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_14.jpg


About Heavy Guns:

The MK108/103
In IL2FB each second projectile is a tracer without effect. Without doubt this does not correspond to the reality. For the MK108/MK103 all mine projectiles " Minengeschosse" and armor-piercing shells WITH light trace "Panzergranaten mit Leuchtspur" and fire projectiles "Brandgeschosse" were used. Often ammunition belts with all sorts were mixed. Even IF each second projectile is tracer shows this nevertheless effect it there also an armor-piercing shell is simultaneous! In reality was about every fifth an armor-piercing shell with light trace. About muzzle flash further down.


Hit needed on the average for the firing of a four Engine Bomber:
MG151/20 : 20-25 Hits
MK 108 : 8 Hits **
MK 103 : 3 Hits

Only 3 hit for the firing 4 engines bombers can be attributed to the enormously high striking power of the Mk103.

**I am not reliably, i cant find the Book.pls correcting if wrongly

The Muzzle Flash.

The muzzle flashes of all branches of service are long ones with security to large to in the duration and not enough transparency. The muzzle flash in IL2Fb resembles more a Hollywood film*** than a WW2 simulation. Even WITH mg17 one does not see the opponent because of the muzzle flash for short time! I have shooten already with weapons of the caliber of 5.6mm at day and night projectiles and I saw calibers of 9mm and even machine guns , I had however to state that the muzzle flash is hardly itselfable! Because the whole takes place simply for the eye too fast!

***In Hollywood "ammunition" used which the muzzle flash strongly exaggerates. So that the spectators not to be bored. I do not think the IL2 FB pilot am bored with fewer muzzle flashes

Hajo Hermann used unfortunatly tracers with its first night interception, by which he was dazzled and not by the muzzle flash! (German night fighters used often not tracer because it strongly dazzled )

The light trace at day is much to sharp and resembles rather Starwars. Also it is mile far visible!

If someone else still finds errors or informations about German Guns please post them here.

regards

Falkster

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<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/Links/link_iiijjg53.jpg alt="III/JG53"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 07:26 PM
Butch will you post the german loudouts here?

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<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/Links/link_iiijjg53.jpg alt="III/JG53"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 03:11 PM
Very Nice great Job Falkster.

- Der Pilot fliegt hoch, der Pilot fliegt weit, wieso auch nicht er hat ja zeit-

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 08:26 PM
BUMP for this great post /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gruß

Chris Brendel
13/JG5

http://www.christian-stampfer.privat.t-online.de/brendel-signatur.jpg


13/JG5 (www.jg5.de)
Virtual Online War (www.vow-hq.com)

Und weg!!

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 09:27 PM
1st bump away... 2nd away... 3rd away...

Goin` for Bump salvo... Hi-ho Silver away!!!

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close you eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)


http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm

http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg



1C Ankanor, Defender Of The Truth

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 05:42 PM
For more information on bombloads you can visit http://www.luftarchiv.de/.
It's in German, for those who can read it it might be interesting.



Erm......BUMP!!!

http://home.pages.at/bundesheer-infoecke/th-stg77.jpg


http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images/flagge.gif



Message Edited on 06/25/0305:45PM by FliegerAas

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:35 PM
I'd like to see this one in the game! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SB1000 on FW190 (note the cut rudder of the bomb!)

http://www.luftarchiv.de/bordgerate/sb1000.jpg



Taken from www.luftarchiv.de (http://www.luftarchiv.de)

http://home.pages.at/bundesheer-infoecke/th-stg77.jpg


http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images/flagge.gif



Message Edited on 06/27/0305:37PM by FliegerAas

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:43 PM
Bump by the Stuka proffesionals!

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:00 PM
Very nice indeed, but it seems like a lot to implement it all..

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:37 PM
This thread was so good it inspired me to start flying the FW190F-8 online in the scripted server I usually fly at. They have 2 maps where u can fly the F8, one has buildings with train cars inside as targets and the other has lots of tanks.

SC500 ingame is great. Can blow up 6 buildings. traincars are not put in adjacent buildings, but I have gotten 2 with one bomb on several occasions. SD500 seems to work at least as well against the traincars_in_buildings as SC500. In the offline campaign I have destroyed every vehicle in a supply convoy with 1 SC500 in the center of the convoy.

SD500 is also awsome. The first time I used one on tanks I got 3 tanks with one bomb (the tanks are in cross shaped groups with 3 light flaktanks spaced between 4 to 6 IS heavy tanks). The light tanks can be killed even with a fairly distant miss (I would estimate I missed by 4 lengths of one of the heavy tanks and still killed a light tank). The closest heavy tanks have about 2-3 tank legths between them (side by side with that much space between) and a perfectly placed SD500 will take them both out.

AB500 I have not used much as I have not had success with them the few times I used them. I know you have to set delay for at least 3 seconds, and I recall from the patch notes that introduced them it said they had antipersonnel submunitions, so I guess they are not modelled to work well against harder targets.

The rockets I havn't tried since IL2, I recall they were pretty useless, I'll have to get around to trying them again, but it seems hard to beat the effectiveness of the SC/SD500 for air to ground, and air to air the guns are fine and the rockets slow you down too much.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 12:52 PM
so what about the ju87d fieldmod with 20mm? i cant remember if it were ffm or 151/20 but it would be a nice addition. its really anoying to chase trucks with those peaguns mg17.

----------------------------------------
(P)impo
√ľberzeugte Luftwaffel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 05:51 PM
Must be changed in FB!!!


BUMP!

Gruß

RogerHawk


http://520082849836-0000.bei.t-online.de/JG68_logo/GreenTigersLogoklein.gif (http://520082849836-0000.bei.t-online.de/index.htm)


<hr>
"Die gro√üen L√¬∂cher in den Fl√¬§chen sind nicht das Problem. Erst wenn die Dinger fehlen wird mir bei der Sache mulmig."

<hr>

http://www.JG68.de.vu

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:03 PM
bump

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/Bomben/SC2000-1.JPG

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 09:26 PM
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0243.jpg


bump

<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/falkster.gif alt="III/JG53" width="600"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 08:41 PM
bumm

----------------------------------------
(P)impo
√ľberzeugte Luftwaffel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 08:45 PM
BUMP !!!

new bombs and loadouts are as important as new planes !!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:23 PM
Pimpo wrote:
- so what about the ju87d fieldmod with 20mm? i cant
- remember if it were ffm or 151/20 but it would be a
- nice addition. its really anoying to chase trucks
- with those peaguns mg17.

I find the MG17 quite effective against soft targets, trucks and AA guns.

The problem with having the Ju87D-5 armed with 20mm cannons is because it has a larger wingspan than the D-3 we have in the game, so in essense it would have to be a completely different model for it to be correct.

Would be nice though...then we could have a capable night fighter to combat the night witches /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 03:21 AM
another bump

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 08:27 AM
El Bumpo

---------------------------------------
S! Blue_Smiley - online as Farmerboy
Flying Il2 newbie-style since 2001

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 03:25 PM
http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/bump-smile.gif



<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:54 PM
Pimpo wrote:
- so what about the ju87d fieldmod with 20mm? i cant
- remember if it were ffm or 151/20 but it would be a
- nice addition. its really anoying to chase trucks
- with those peaguns mg17.
-
-----------------------------------------
- (P)impo
- √ľberzeugte Luftwaffel /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Would like to see it too.



P.S.: BOMB.....eeerm BUMP



http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images/flagge.gif


http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 01:16 PM
FliegerAas wrote:
-
- Pimpo wrote:
-- so what about the ju87d fieldmod with 20mm? i cant
-- remember if it were ffm or 151/20 but it would be a
-- nice addition. its really anoying to chase trucks
-- with those peaguns mg17.
--
------------------------------------------
-- (P)impo
-- √ľberzeugte Luftwaffel /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Would like to see it too.

It's not a fieldmod, but the D-5.

Other than that I'd like to have the 7,9mm MG 81 gunpods. 6 guns per pod.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
07-12-2003, 06:05 PM
Willey wrote:
-
- FliegerAas wrote:
--
-- Pimpo wrote:
--- so what about the ju87d fieldmod with 20mm? i cant
--- remember if it were ffm or 151/20 but it would be a
--- nice addition. its really anoying to chase trucks
--- with those peaguns mg17.
---
-------------------------------------------
--- (P)impo
--- √ľberzeugte Luftwaffel /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
--
-- Would like to see it too.
-
- It's not a fieldmod, but the D-5.
-
- Other than that I'd like to have the 7,9mm MG 81
- gunpods. 6 guns per pod.
-
-
- <hr>
-


Field mod or not, I want it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I want them all /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images/flagge.gif


http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243





Message Edited on 07/12/0308:11PM by FliegerAas

XyZspineZyX
07-12-2003, 07:50 PM
Willey wrote:
- Other than that I'd like to have the 7,9mm MG 81
- gunpods. 6 guns per pod.

hm! sounds interesting :>

----------------------------------------
(P)impo
√ľberzeugte Luftwaffel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 01:20 PM
bump


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 01:34 PM
totally agreed for correct loadout and for Stuka D5 thanks for great posting all.

<A HREF=http://www.normandieniemen.firstream.net/</A>pilotes/profils/enigmus.jpg">


NN_EnigmuS.
Normandie Niemen virtuel.
http://www.normandieniemen.firstream.net/

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 01:27 PM
bump


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 02:58 PM
b√ľmp

---------------------------------------
S! Blue_Smiley - online as Farmerboy
Flying Il2 newbie-style since 2001

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 02:17 PM
More loadouts for the 190 too, Pleeeeeeeez /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

B√ľmp√¬∂

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images/flagge.gif


http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243



Message Edited on 07/15/0302:18PM by FliegerAas

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 02:22 PM
<font color=59626B>

Message Edited on 07/15/0303:24PM by Willey

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 02:24 PM
<font color=59626B>

Message Edited on 07/15/0303:24PM by Willey

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 02:24 PM
<font color=59626B>

Message Edited on 07/15/0303:25PM by Willey

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 02:24 PM
BUMP /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

page 4 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

Message Edited on 07/15/0303:25PM by Willey

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:16 AM
B√ľmp

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images/flagge.gif


http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 11:55 AM
bump

<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/falkster.gif alt="III/JG53" width="600"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 10:15 AM
^ bumpy ^

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 01:27 PM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 02:06 PM
bump

http://taipans.dyndns.org/sigs/tpn_bard.jpg (http://taipans.dyndns.org)

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 04:38 AM
And another bump... the information contained in this thread is *very* good stuff. Thanks gents!



WW-V-TFW CO

[email="wwsandman@wingwalkers.org>Email</a>
WW Forum (http://www.wingwalkers.org/Forum/index.php)

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 05:02 AM
Bumpers... back on top!

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:00 PM
bump once again.......

<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/falkster.gif alt="III/JG53" width="600"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 08:38 PM
*bump*

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 10:20 PM
Bump !

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 01:41 AM
here are some original documents I have of bomb statistics if you guys are interested.


http://home.cogeco.ca/~ezuuring/bomb%20stats%201.jpg




http://home.cogeco.ca/~ezuuring/koef.jpg


http://home.cogeco.ca/~ezuuring/koef.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:50 PM
Hey Stadler pls post more pics! Interesting stuff.
Wieviel seiten sind es denn? W√¬§re es m√¬∂glich die ganze Doku zu scannen?

I hope Oleg noticed this thread and i hope some things will be changed........

<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/falkster.gif alt="III/JG53" width="600"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:18 PM
Bump!

And I might add:

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=de_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zucqo

(even more Bf-110 stuff)

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 06:48 PM
good post, bump

yay!

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 08:46 PM
ich bump den thread solange, bis ich meine SC-1000 habe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gruß

Chris Brendel
13/JG5

http://www.christian-stampfer.privat.t-online.de/brendel-signatur.jpg


13.(Z) Jagdgeschwader 5 (http://www.jg5.de)
VOW - Virtual Online War (http://www.vow-hq.com)
Operation Blau (http://www.operation-blau.de)

"Es kommt immer anders als man denkt!"

Und weg!!

XyZspineZyX
10-11-2003, 11:30 PM
LOL habt ihr meinen alten thread wieder herausgegraben!

Besten dank einiges wurde zwar schon ge√¬§ndert.
Aber bis das ganze perfekt ist fehlt noch einiges /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/falkster.gif alt="III/JG53" width="600"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 01:53 AM
BUMP



"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 10:36 AM
Here some more.

Sorry about the size. (right click->save as, to view)


http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/njg_stat.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/njg1.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/Vortrag_MK108_2.jpg



http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/chart2.jpg


http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/bk37wolfram.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/bk37wzebschuss371.jpg


http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/3cm_mine.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/meheko/151_ammo_mine.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 11:55 AM
thx m8, great stuff there /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif .

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 07:04 PM
BUMP on a slider

/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 01:46 AM
http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/schieb2.gif


MfG Frank
<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/harti.gif alt="III/JG53"></a>

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 11:35 PM
buuuuuuuuuumpf



http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 04:20 PM
The previously posted data I beleive to be incorrect, If I remember correctly a few years ago that the R4m could be fired in salvos of 3,6,12,24. I also wish to point out that the average accuracy for rockets is often quite different from the actual accuracy in combat conditions, even in the mid '50s rockets often stood a small probability of going of course (sometimes while over 70 degrees) immediatly after ignition, furthermore at a range a fair portion of the rockets would begin to fall off course. In the case of the R4m it was shown that when fired at combat range it would saturate the wingspan of a b-17 with rounds all along its length as well as above and below.


__________________________________________________ Il-10

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 04:52 PM
bump

XyZspineZyX
11-24-2003, 07:31 AM
bump

Kommandeur III/JG53#Hammer

<img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/hammer.gif alt="III/JG53"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)

http://www.cremation-deathmetal.de
http://www.varon.de

Willey
02-11-2004, 12:20 PM
bump *g*

PLZ don't lock this one. It's quite old, but this issue is quite recent again. I bump this because of the good info in here.

JG53-Falkster
02-11-2004, 12:25 PM
thx willey for bumbing this very very old thread but its dangerous some problems already have been fixed