PDA

View Full Version : FW-190 Sturmbock



XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:19 PM
Just a suggestion..it sure would be cool to have a FW-190 Sturmbock bomber attacker....I know that they weren't as maneuverable as the standard 190 but the idea of having 2 Mk 108's in the wing and extra armor seems like it could be fun.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:19 PM
Just a suggestion..it sure would be cool to have a FW-190 Sturmbock bomber attacker....I know that they weren't as maneuverable as the standard 190 but the idea of having 2 Mk 108's in the wing and extra armor seems like it could be fun.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:30 PM
Salute

The Sturmbock is already available.

Just select the 190A8 and look at the various Weapon loadouts.

You can take it with the normal 'Sturmbock' weapons of 2 Mk 108's in the outer wings, or you can go really nasty with the 2 Mk 103 underwing gunpods.

The difference in armour between the 'Sturmbocks' and normal A8's is minor.

I will be running some late '43, early '44 bomber COOP missions with Sturmbocks, 109G6's, P-47's and B-17's (PE-8's) over Berlin in the next few days.


RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 11:32 PM
Hummm i wont consider 111kg of extra armor as a minor difference /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Butch

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 11:51 PM
Salute Butch

Great to hear from you!!!

Perhaps you could help out in more of the discussions by contributing your knowledge.

Especially when you know there a inaccuracies being put forward by those who promote Luftwaffe aircraft. Since you seem to specialize in those.

As far as the Sturmbock's go, yes there was more armour... but in what version?? In earlier bomber attackers, 1943 versions, armour was less. If you are only talking about particular officially designated models... fine.

In any case, the way the 190 is modelled now, it has the extra armour without any weight penalty. So just adding the extra weapons will give you a plane which performs like a Sturmbock.


RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 12:12 AM
http://rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG3Udet/Bilder/JG3-Panzerung.jpg


check Rafigers Strumbock site


http://rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG3Udet/Info-JG3-Udet.htm

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/franky.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 05:42 AM
As far as I know, the name "Sturmbock" was not given to any and all 190s that happened to be attacking bombers at the time. It specifically referred to the up armed and armored versions, especially the 190A8/R8. Their reduced maneuverability and speed necessitated special tactics.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 06:19 AM
According to the Osprey book FW 190 aces of the Western Front, the Sturmbock was a dedicated heavy bomber destroyer version of the A-8, and had extra armor fitted to the cockpit and wing ammunition boxes, as well as extra panels of laminated glass, known as blinkers, fitted to the canopy. They had special attacking formations, called arrowheads, and usually preferred to attack from the rear. They were usually escorted by 2 Gruppen of 109's. The Sturmbock armaments are available to us in the game, but does this take the extra armor into account? Is it more difficult to score a pilot kill on a 190 outfitted with the Sturmbock armament?

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 07:44 AM
hi,
indeed..also the FW 190 A-6/R6..as a destroyer since Februar 1944..against bomber pulks..

here a link to one of it with a documentation story..

http://www.triplane.net/restoration_intro.htm



Multimetal wrote:
- According to the Osprey book FW 190 aces of the
- Western Front, the Sturmbock was a dedicated heavy
- bomber destroyer version of the A-8, and had extra
- armor fitted to the cockpit and wing ammunition
- boxes, as well as extra panels of laminated glass,
- known as blinkers, fitted to the canopy. They had
- special attacking formations, called arrowheads, and
- usually preferred to attack from the rear. They
- were usually escorted by 2 Gruppen of 109's. The
- Sturmbock armaments are available to us in the game,
- but does this take the extra armor into account? Is
- it more difficult to score a pilot kill on a 190
- outfitted with the Sturmbock armament?
-
-

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 11:44 AM
Well, we have the sturmbick armament with the A8 and A9 versions equiped with mk108 and mk103...

For the armor, you have two solutions :

The first one, consider that you did like many sturmbock pilots who were getting rid of the extra armor, except for the reinforced windshield, in order to retain some fighter to fighter combat capacity...

The second one, reinstall FB without the 1.1b patch and enjoy the sturmbock FM with all versions of fw190A... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Also note that the version with mk103 gondolas is much more sluggish than the version with the mk108 in wings...

<center><img src=http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg></center>

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 12:59 PM
agreed the A8/r2 must have some historical change like for example the Mk108 they must be short and not like in FB.

don t know how was employed A8/R2 but it will be cool to have with the Fb A8/r2 a real sturmbock plane just for hunting B17.

other beautiful pics from rafiger adress:

http://rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG3Udet/Bilder/JG3-Yellow6.jpg


http://rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG3Udet/Bilder/JG3-Baisch.jpg




<A HREF=http://www.normandieniemen.firstream.net/</A>pilotes/profils/enigmus.jpg">


NN_EnigmuS.
Normandie Niemen virtuel.
http://www.normandieniemen.firstream.net/

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 05:28 PM
I have an EXCELLENT book - FW190 in combat. It goes into this version of the 190 - including combat commentry from the pilots who flew it.

This version of the 190 had a HUGE amount of extra armour - the pilots who flew them were all volunteers, they had leather jackets with a pair of eye whites on them - ie don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes.

They would attack in an echelon formation from astern , literally marching right into a bomber box in a large formation - ignoring the incoming fire. They would often lose aircraft but not before inflicting heavy losses. I can only imagine how it felt to be a bomber tailgunner seeing this big formation approaching at a leisurely pace - knowing they were very heavily armoured.

It's handling sucked, but as a bomber killer it was very effective.

My scanner at home is porked, but i am sure you can find some comparitive pictures of the 190 and the heavy version.




http://www3.telus.net/ice51/taipans/tpn_bard.jpg (http://taipans.dyndns.org)

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 05:47 PM
190 flying tank then? mmm /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 06:34 PM
Difference between standard FW 190 A-8 and A-8/R8 (aka 'Sturmbock' or Battering Ram - vs. a Flying FORTRESS), as according to "Technical Description No.284, FW 190 A-8 Fighter" , dated 28th November 1944 :

Standard A-8 / Sturmbock protection, thickness and weight of armor plates :

Oil cooler: 6.5mm / 10mm
Oil tank: 5.5mm / 6mm
Windscreen mounting : - / 15mm
Horizontal panel : - / 4mm
Windscreen : 50mm / 50mm
Windscreen side panels : - / 30mm
Triangular panels : - / 4mm
Seat armor : 8mm / 8mm
Back armor : 5mm / 5mm
Bulkhead 5 panels: 5mm / 5mm
Head armor : 12mm / 20mm
MK108, ammo box protection, front : - / 20mm
MK108, ammo box protection, top and bottom : - / 4mm

Total weight of armor : 137.8 kg / 248.8kg

Note: Standard fighter A-8 with BMW 801TU engine have slightly increased armor, weighting 165.3kg (oil protection similiar level to that of Sturmbock, otherwise as "ordinary" A-8).

Document notes: "For Attack fighter sub-types of FW 190 A-9, the weight of armor is further increased."


http://vo101isegrim.piranho.com/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

Message Edited on 09/03/0307:38PM by Vo101_Isegrim

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 01:25 AM
TPN_Bard wrote:
- I have an EXCELLENT book - FW190 in combat. It goes
- into this version of the 190 - including combat
- commentry from the pilots who flew it.

Agreed, I have this book also and the Sturmgruppe account is awesome. Great read with alot of good info. I like how the Sturmbock pilot says how he was in the air and would be longing for his standard A-8 sitting helplessly on the ground if they encountered enemy fighters. There was considerable armor added (which the book provides details on), and it apparently made a big difference in the plane's handling characteristics.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.