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badatflyski
06-17-2007, 03:41 AM
Hy!
Searching for info abour the date of production and delivery numbers for the MKVb,MKVc,MKVcLF and others, actually ,the whole MKV family?.
Someone?
Thanks!

ploughman
06-17-2007, 03:44 AM
Clik on this (http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/spitfirefactory/production.htm).

And this. (http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/production.htm)

badatflyski
06-17-2007, 03:57 AM
Thanks, it's a good start! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

something fishy here anyway (copy from the site)

"Third order for 1000 SpitfireMkIII. Dated 24 October 1940.

Serial allocations- BL231-267, BL285-304, BL311-356, BL365-391, BL403-450, BL461-500, BL509-551, BL562-600, BL613-647, BL655-699, BL707-736, BL748-789, BL801-833, BL846-864, BL887-909, BL918-941, BL956-998, BM113-162, BM176-211, BM227-274, BM289-329, BM343-386, BM399-430, BM447-483, BM508-543, BM556-597, BM624-653.

<span class="ev_code_RED">"Built as MkVB between November 1941 and May1942. First delivered BL231 23 November1941, last BM653 16 May 1942."</span>

If the first MKV were MKIII modified on assembly-chain and the first were build in nov41, would that mean that the first FW-Spit encounter (august41?) was actually with a MKIII squadron?

So can We assume that from the end of41 to the second half of 42, the only spit availible was the MkVB?(supposition from the link posted above!)

More info welcome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Thanks!

EDIT:saw your 2nd link! gonna check it! thanks

JG53Frankyboy
06-17-2007, 04:11 AM
as the first F.Mk.IXc made its combat debut in July 1942 with No.64 Squadron - yes, till than the Spitfire Squadrons had to fight with Mk.Vb&c.
but the Spit V of 1942 used higher boost levels than a V of 1941 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

anyone has exact datas when the LF.Mk.V entered combat service ?

AFAIK the Mk.III never entered service/full production

ploughman
06-17-2007, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by badatflyski:


EDIT:saw your 2nd link! gonna check it! thanks

There are a few Mk Vs before page 10 but the bulk of them begin there.

hop2002
06-17-2007, 04:38 AM
If the first MKV were MKIII modified on assembly-chain and the first were build in nov41, would that mean that the first FW-Spit encounter (august41?) was actually with a MKIII squadron?

Only 1 Mk III was ever built, and as far as I know it never saw combat.

The Mk III order was changed to Mk Vs, but that was before production had begun, and the aircraft were built as Mk Vs from the beginning.

The first combat between the Fw 190 and the RAF that I know of was on the 18th September 1941, the RAF unit involved was 41 squadron, flying the Spitfire Vb.


So can We assume that from the end of41 to the second half of 42, the only spit availible was the MkVB?(supposition from the link posted above!)

Alfred Price dates the introduction of the Spitfire Vc as October 1941. They probably came from the fourth order, built as PR IVs, Vbs and Vcs between August 1941 and Feb 1942.

badatflyski
06-17-2007, 05:00 AM
Thanks guys!
Ploughman: the second link is excellent!
I'm copying all the MKV i can find , gonna put it in an exell file for easier control of production dates! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

badatflyski
06-17-2007, 07:58 AM
What were the delivery procedures for the spit?

In the list from the site posted by ploughman, there are some where the first flight is indicated and others not, but there is a note and a date about a Maintenance Unit.Were some spits direct delivered to units and other first to a maintenance unit?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

luftluuver
06-17-2007, 10:49 AM
What is interesting is the data in the links was taken from Spitfire: The History, yet no mention was made of the source. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Kurfurst__
06-17-2007, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by badatflyski:
What were the delivery procedures for the spit?

In the list from the site posted by ploughman, there are some where the first flight is indicated and others not, but there is a note and a date about a Maintenance Unit.Were some spits direct delivered to units and other first to a maintenance unit?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

My bet would be the first flight figure is for new production airframes, the ones which only mention a Maintaince Unit are probably older airframes updated to the standard of a later Mark. In brief, probably equivalent of German Neubau and Umbau.

That's a wonderful source you linked in P', I have S:tH, but this one saves a lot of scanning.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif With the help of this source, I realized a lot of new things already.. excell can make wonders to even such large databases.

Thank you again for posting it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

hop2002
06-17-2007, 12:47 PM
What were the delivery procedures for the spit?

In the list from the site posted by ploughman, there are some where the first flight is indicated and others not, but there is a note and a date about a Maintenance Unit.Were some spits direct delivered to units and other first to a maintenance unit??

It's almost certainly just different recording practices.

If you break the list down by factory, of the 10,499 built by Castle Bromwich (at first glance), only about 100 begin with a first flight date. However, of the approx 3800 produced at Eastleigh, over 2900 begin with a first flight date.

AFAIK, almost all Spitfires went to MUs first, because that was where some items of service equipment, like guns and radios, were usually fitted.


My bet would be the first flight figure is for new production airframes, the ones which only mention a Maintaince Unit are probably older airframes updated to the standard of a later Mark.

Look at the Mk IIs, which were new build, and almost all show MU as the first destination.

luftluuver
06-17-2007, 12:49 PM
A/c were sent to MUs first, then assigned to squadrons.

hop2002
06-17-2007, 01:18 PM
Spitfire The History gives some details of the information that was recorded.

Every aircraft had an air ministry form, AM 78.

On the front of the form were boxes to fill out for type of aircraft, type of engine, contract number, serial number, which unit it was sent to and where.

Nowhere on the front is there somewhere to fill in the details of the first flight.

Spitfire The History hen says that there was space on the rear of the form where important details in the life of the aircraft were supposed to be filled in. That would presumably include the date of the first flight.

As there doesn't seem to have been a specific box for the date of the first flight, I suspect whether it was recorded or not was just down to who was doing the recording, and the procedures they had been instructed to follow.

ploughman
06-17-2007, 04:23 PM
Anything in A Sigh for a Merlin about 1st flights? My copy's in the local lending library at the moment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For Castle Bromwhich, first flight would be with Henshaw or another factory test pilot to pass the aircraft? And the 2nd flight would be a delivery flight by ATS to an MU or to end user?