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Metatron_123
09-24-2008, 05:38 PM
Sorry to bring this up again, but I would like a serious opinion on this issue:

AI: Doesn't overheat, black out, has perfect engine management that humans can't match.

True or False?

If it is true, i'm switching overheat and blackouts off right now in offline mode! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

(Maybe I won't, the realism seeking massochist that I am)

I just wanted to ask, because although I've been playing for a while, I can't decide if my inability to follow the crazy climbing of the ai craft is due to my lack of skill, or if it's simply not humanly possible to do.

WTE_Galway
09-24-2008, 05:49 PM
One of the offline "cheats" that people have complained about that was never fixed is that autopilot has the same "no overheat" issues. If you use autopilot to get to target you start with a fresh engine.

I think that may even occur if you start out with autopilot and return to normal flying but do not touch the throttle.

Stingray333
09-24-2008, 05:58 PM
or that auto-pilot will recover you from even the worst of flat spins

WTE_Galway
09-24-2008, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Stingray333:
or that auto-pilot will recover you from even the worst of flat spins

ha that too

It can save some pretty awful takeoffs as well so long as you are not heading straight for a hanger.

Metatron_123
09-24-2008, 06:20 PM
Is it true that it will save a plane diving beyond break up speed?

rnzoli
09-25-2008, 04:38 AM
why not try? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mortoma
09-25-2008, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
Is it true that it will save a plane diving beyond break up speed? Yes, it's true. I once had a LA-5FN follow me in a D_335 at over 900KPH in a shallow dive for quite a while. If you fly a LA yourself, you'll break up at 720Kph of so. So the AI was hugely exceeding the breakup speed for a LA-5FN!!!!! A human player following me in that plane could not have stayed with me, not even close.

Metatron_123
09-25-2008, 06:01 AM
I see... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Thanks for the reply...

LEBillfish
09-25-2008, 06:10 AM
Bah!

I've lost AI in clouds...
Caused them to stall at higher altitudes down to grass high alts...
Had them burn up engines from over revs (though may of been a stray bullet)...
Had them get into too hard of a dive and dissintigrate.....
Had them do only what I could guess was a black out though could of been compression though doubt it....
Naturally caused them to collide with one another....
etc.,etc.,etc.....

A whole host of things that to this day stuns me....

They did a good job though AI in perhaps 3.01 or 02 was by FAR the best I've ever seen....You could not tell them from live pilots yet folks griped as they flew like a team too well.

K2

Worf101
09-25-2008, 06:48 AM
Two nights ago, in an online Coop. I managed to land my A-20 with only 1 working engine. Rear gunner was dead and I was smoking like a blunt. Four 109's appear and prepare to strafe me on the apron. I started my engine, and proceeded to "run circles" as fast as my bicycle gear would let me.

End Result? All 4 109's crashed into the ground trying to strafe me. I was almost blown up by their back wash but managed to live. It was amazing. So sometimes the AI giveth, sometimes the AI taketh away.

Da Worfster

Blutarski2004
09-25-2008, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by Worf101:
Two nights ago, in an online Coop. I managed to land my A-20 with only 1 working engine. Rear gunner was dead and I was smoking like a blunt. Four 109's appear and prepare to strafe me on the apron. I started my engine, and proceeded to "run circles" as fast as my bicycle gear would let me.

End Result? All 4 109's crashed into the ground trying to strafe me. I was almost blown up by their back wash but managed to live. It was amazing. So sometimes the AI giveth, sometimes the AI taketh away.

Da Worfster


..... Very cool, Worf! In a manner of speaking, you could make a good argument that you defeated four ME109's in a turning fight in a single damaged A20!

;-]

LovroSL
09-25-2008, 08:38 AM
I once went 1 on 1 fw190d (piloted by me) vs. me109g6

me109 got on my tail so I dived in my 190 from 4000m straight down, built my speed up to 800kmh and me109 was still behind me and shooting, what is worse is that I then pulled up max g's and allmost hit the deck but the AI 109 actually out pulled-up me at 800kph http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

If I flew that 109, I would break up long before I could even attempt to move that cemented 800kph elevator while I blacked out.

Blutarski2004
09-25-2008, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by LovroSL:
what is worse is that I then pulled up max g's and allmost hit the deck but the AI 109 actually out pulled-up me at 800kph http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif



..... Well, those AI 109 drivers are wicked fast on the trim wheel.

;-]

general_kalle
09-25-2008, 08:47 AM
i think unfortunatly the sad fact is that the ai do cheat, i know from own experience that they kan fly much faster and without overheating.
in FMB i can set my flight to fly much faster than i am able to do in the plane, so if i choose to fly number 4 i cannot stay with them

if the AI was better in V. 3.01 or 3.02
if that's so then why was it changed to the worse.
wouldn't it be a small problem to reverse it back to 3.01 or 3.02 if the final 4.09 ever comes out?

Metatron_123
09-25-2008, 10:59 AM
LEBillfish ans Worf, interesting stories.

I must admit i've never seen ai explode while diving!

PhantomKira
09-25-2008, 11:04 AM
Speaking of "worse", what's with the AI not being able to lead the target in a turn? I've seen any number of AI get on someone's tail and fire the whole ammo belt into empty space because, while the first burst misses, they don't re-adjust and continue to fire bursts that miss by falling behind the aircraft until they're out of ammo.

My guess: They don't actually lead the target in some cases. It's just "put the pipper on the target - pull the trigger". No adjustment for Gs.

LEBillfish
09-25-2008, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
if the AI was better in V. 3.01 or 3.02
if that's so then why was it changed to the worse.
wouldn't it be a small problem to reverse it back to 3.01 or 3.02 if the final 4.09 ever comes out?

Because players were bent that AI was finally flying right....So were getting shot down left and right by them.

It really was stunning to see. They would tag team a single aircraft. Bracket them in and a third come in for the strike. WOuld thatch weave, and their gunnery like lead was stunning.

To be blunt? Exactly how I WISH people would fly as a team........So after all the griping, they detuned them again.


Originally posted by PhantomKira:
..........My guess: They don't actually lead the target in some cases. It's just "put the pipper on the target - pull the trigger". No adjustment for Gs.

Sadly they tend to shoot in the direction you're going at that moment...So if in a turn are always behind. That a sadly very commonly used exploit by some players to shake an AI by using up their ammo.

K2

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-25-2008, 11:37 AM
There is a mod to have the old 3.04 AI on 4.08.

DKoor
09-25-2008, 12:43 PM
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3f0ec0b2-deff-4a34-aec3-567c57b72c96/AiCheatPack
enough said.

thefruitbat
09-25-2008, 01:13 PM
The only thing that really ****es me off these days, is the fact that they can always bail out, no matter how fast they are descending and spinning, whereas, i can't.

900khm spinning dive to the ground, only one wing, ai no prob, jump out in a jiffy.

While i obviously don't expect to get out myself in the same situation, i also expect them to suffer to...

fruitbat

joeap
09-25-2008, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
m........So after all the griping, they detuned them again.

K2

Ok sorry to say this but what's your proof? I really want to know what games out there have really good AI in terms of what this community wants? I don't want to hear "BoB" without some proofs please I hear that a lot without generalities.

M_Gunz
09-25-2008, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
i think unfortunatly the sad fact is that the ai do cheat, i know from own experience that they kan fly much faster and without overheating.
in FMB i can set my flight to fly much faster than i am able to do in the plane, so if i choose to fly number 4 i cannot stay with them

if the AI was better in V. 3.01 or 3.02
if that's so then why was it changed to the worse.
wouldn't it be a small problem to reverse it back to 3.01 or 3.02 if the final 4.09 ever comes out?

The FM got harder to fly, it takes more cycles than before so less cycles are left for tactics.

I tried to get Oleg to see about making a server-like version of IL2 that would join a game
and run AI with the same netcode that players join and play a game now. It would allow older
PC's without the high-end videocard and controls to take a load off your PC offline or hosting
or even over the net. Imagine a few AI having a whole PC and RAM instead of sharing with
the player and graphics, etc. Seeing as how the game engine already does all this, maybe
just a menu option or conf.ini line to join and support a game, kind of AI MP.

Maybe some day but not yet. How good could the AI get when given the resources?

squareusr
09-25-2008, 01:51 PM
My favourite ninja-AI story goes like this: returning to the home airfield, leading an AI in formation, arrived over the airfield at some way too high altitude. Now little usr thinks "how can i burn that energy as quickly as possible, without breaking up?", so i open the radiator, give full flaps and put the gear down, all while going permanently inverted and in full rudder sideslip. Altogether this results in a "gliding" ratio close enough to 1:1 while maintaining a constant speed still in the flaps-and-gear range.

AI guy of course stays upright in the roll axis and bravely points his nose down towards the ground in order to keep up with my sinking, all without accelerating past me. I think i remember that he did not even put down his flaps. It was quite a disturbing sight, much stranger than all the other AI "tricks" that could as well be achieved by adding some more horsepower to the engine.

A shame that you can't set up mixed formations, say, with a Storch and a 262 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

joeap
09-25-2008, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
There is a mod to have the old 3.04 AI on 4.08.

I thought it was a request and not possible yet? (yes I visit so at least I know what tis going on) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Truth is I am skeptical cause of what M_Gunz said about cpu cycles and the new FM.

LEBillfish
09-25-2008, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
m........So after all the griping, they detuned them again.

K2

Ok sorry to say this but what's your proof? I really want to know what games out there have really good AI in terms of what this community wants? I don't want to hear "BoB" without some proofs please I hear that a lot without generalities. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You got it.....

Install IL2/AEP/PF 3.0 Check how AI flys
Install 3.01 Check how AI flys
Install 3.02 Check how AI flys
Install 3.03 Check how AI flys
Install 3.04 Check how AI flys
Install 4.00 Check how AI flys
Install 4.01 Check how AI flys
Install 4.02 Check how AI flys
Install 4.03 Check how AI flys
Install 4.04 Check how AI flys

http://patches.ubi.com/pacific_fighters/

Enjoy.......The proof is there without having to take my word for it.

K2

p.s.....Try and post your findings come morning.

M_Gunz
09-25-2008, 03:12 PM
squareuser:

If you let the wind drive the prop, which IRL is a BAD THING, the you can slow down with drag
about equal to a flat disk the diameter of the prop in place of the prop. IL2 prop and engine
will not damage. You could be 750 kph diving in a P-47 and go 100% prop with 1% power and just
watch the airspeed.

Any chance the AI was doing something like that? That's like a 10 ft prop on P-47 isn't it?
How much drag is a 10 ft dia tabletop stuck on the nose?

Of course IRL it would probably damage or destroy prop and/or engine parts sooner or later
but in game it doesn't last I checked. I was finding out how quickly I could land after
arriving at base from a high speed shallow dive. Answer included prop as brake plus one
hard climbing maneuver, steep descending spiral approach and touchdown still over 10 seconds.
I'd need a good lead to not get caught low and slow on final or the roll.

mortoma
09-25-2008, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Bah!

I've lost AI in clouds...
Caused them to stall at higher altitudes down to grass high alts...
Had them burn up engines from over revs (though may of been a stray bullet)...
Had them get into too hard of a dive and dissintigrate.....
Had them do only what I could guess was a black out though could of been compression though doubt it....
Naturally caused them to collide with one another....
etc.,etc.,etc.....

A whole host of things that to this day stuns me....

They did a good job though AI in perhaps 3.01 or 02 was by FAR the best I've ever seen....You could not tell them from live pilots yet folks griped as they flew like a team too well.

K2 They will disintegrate but only at about 200 or 300 KPH higher than what you would disintegrate at if flying the same plane. And it's usually due to the AI pilot being virtually dead or "PK'd" as they say. They will not exceed dive limit if they are "alive".

And if you lose them in clouds it's just that it's probably a Novice or Average level AI and they gave up the chase ( they would have stopped chasing you even if there were no clouds ).

I am 99% offline and so I know this stuff better than someone like you, who is about 99% online. By the way, I have shot you down several times online. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEBillfish
09-26-2008, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
.......I am 99% offline and so I know this stuff better than someone like you, who is about 99% online. By the way, I have shot you down several times online. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LOL....NO WAY!!!...No one has ever shot me down! No doubt the "several" times making up the entire 1% http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Anywho, that bit of yawn over......Untrue about the clouds simply being just novice or average and that they simply gave up the chase....They chased, yet got lost in the clouds and I slipped out then watched from afar them still looking for a few moments tracking my last known path.

What I believe happens is just like the padlock works very accurately here, I believe they are utilizing some form of timer....Lose sight long enough and you lost them though they will look for you. The same thing happens when in a dogfight with one. Get out of their field of view long enough (using their own planes blindspots) and they'll break off from the pursuit yet still look about (as indicated by not simply egressing)....It is then you can sneak up on them and get your shots in.

So I believe it's a padlock sort of function.

Lastly, tonight I had an AI P51 take out after me in my FW190A8. There was no shaking him if I kept attacking the bombers especially heavy with 100% fuel and ammo so I did the only thing I cold and that being dive from 5.5km to the deck........After I got her up to roughly 800km/h, him hot on my 6 all I could do was drop the throttle and hope he'd overshoot.

Welp, as the ground raced up and I tried pulling back, instant blackout...So I hit the combat flaps and hoped and figured what the heck, watch myself plow in hitting F2. Welp, I just came out of the dive without exageration kicking up dust..........Yet the AI plowed into the ground though had clearly tried to roll out.

Doesn't matter if he lost control surfaces, or blacked out........I didn't shoot him down yet it sure shoots down some of what has been posted here.

However....It amazes me you don't know all this....I mean after all, you just fight AI...99% of the time. Well that is when not shooting me down me being 1%. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

K2

Metatron_123
09-26-2008, 08:55 AM
That sounds awesome. Must try it some time!

Shame you don't get awarded the kill that way...even if you KNOW you deserve it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

DKoor
09-26-2008, 05:47 PM
So Metatron... did you watched the tracks I provided?
It answers all your questions quite clearly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif .

DKoor
09-29-2008, 03:13 PM
wow... you welcome!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

thefruitbat
09-29-2008, 03:33 PM
to the original question, 100% not myth, i've shot down thousands of them. they really do exist.

WTE_Galway
09-29-2008, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
to the original question, 100% not myth, i've shot down thousands of them. they really do exist.

Yes in game.

But how many AI pilots have you met in real life ?

M_Gunz
09-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
to the original question, 100% not myth, i've shot down thousands of them. they really do exist.

Yes in game.

But how many AI pilots have you met in real life ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In game they're Artificial Idiots.
IRL they're Actual Idiots and most of them drive cars (high percentage in SUVs) instead of aircraft.

PhantomKira
09-30-2008, 10:39 AM
^^^^^^ Ha! So true.

Bremspropeller
09-30-2008, 03:04 PM
I stopped flying offline after a Zero shot me down with a 60? deflection angle and him being inside a cloud.

My F6F blew up like a firecracker after taking a mere half-second burst.

stalkervision
09-30-2008, 03:11 PM
I have the most trouble with my ai wingmen that are always half asleep. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Oh and the incessent calls from them that they are in trouble all the time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Somerimes I feel I am playing the game for them and not the other way around! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Metatron_123
09-30-2008, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
wow... you welcome!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Heh, I gave them a try mate but the video wouldn't load! Anyhow i have your pack saved to attempt again...

DKoor
09-30-2008, 03:36 PM
Hey Met, put them into your records folder (in root game folder).
Put the NTRK's there. Those files must work.

And yes... you have to have WinZIP or WinRAR to open the containing file first.

Cheershttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Lurch1962
10-02-2008, 08:21 PM
Speaking of "worse", what's with the AI not being able to lead the target in a turn? I've seen any number of AI get on someone's tail and fire the whole ammo belt into empty space because, while the first burst misses, they don't re-adjust and continue to fire bursts that miss by falling behind the aircraft until they're out of ammo.

My guess: They don't actually lead the target in some cases. It's just "put the pipper on the target - pull the trigger". No adjustment for Gs.


The lower-ranked AI will do this, but at the ace level AI can do not *too* badly with deflection shooting. To defeat them you'll have to pull more on the stick--if you've got sufficient turning ability--or do more maneuvering out-of-plane.

SeaFireLIV
10-03-2008, 02:12 AM
I agree with Billfish and worf here. I have many great tales of the AI. I think it`s also self-defeating to say "AI cheats", it has to, it cannot possibly utilise all the paramaters a Human can without needing a PC from NASA, and not even then.

In my view 3.04 was the best one. I remember seeing 2 AI Migs diving after 2 110s who also entered a steep dive and the 2 migs wings broke off. the 110s flew on while the Russian planes were holes in the ground. that`s just one of many things I saw.

I agree that much whining did screw much of the good stuff back then.

Talamir
10-04-2008, 02:54 PM
Bah!

I've lost AI in clouds...
Caused them to stall at higher altitudes down to grass high alts...
Had them burn up engines from over revs (though may of been a stray bullet)...
Had them get into too hard of a dive and dissintigrate.....
Had them do only what I could guess was a black out though could of been compression though doubt it....
Naturally caused them to collide with one another....
etc.,etc.,etc.....


I wonder if you play the same game I do. I've seen AI collide with each other, and I've even maneuvered a few into the ground, but never had the rest of that.

I've been blown apart in clouds many times by the AI.
Never once seen the AI stall.
Never seen the AI burn up their engine through over rev (granted you thought this could be a stray bullet).
Never seen them break apart in a dive. I've had a Gladiator flown by AI out dive me in a P-80. That one really put me off IL-2 for a while.
(Before you asked, it was a fun mission I made for my friends, bi-planes vs jets, we took turns playing both sides.)

stalkervision
10-04-2008, 03:26 PM
I've had a Gladiator flown by AI out dive me in a P-80. That one really put me off IL-2 for a while.

As well it should! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
10-04-2008, 05:48 PM
I just hope that sow & rof planes will resemble at least bit of historical aircombat reality that is sorely missing in with IL2 Ai, that being you generally cannot use historical advantages of your plane vs Ai plane and you can use non-historical ability of your plane to defeat Ai plane.
Example1: you in US aircraft zero follows you in dive all the way
Example2: you in a FW outturning the Spitfire on deck in prolonged turnfight

Human vs human those fight are arguably more or less historical, i.e. Zero falling apart on hi speeds cannot follow US planes in dive and FW-190 losing clearly in a prolonged deck turn fight.

It wasn't always that way, and Ai TBH, used to be better than this in some regard in some it was worse, but personally I would rather have dumber Ai (less "skilled", i.e. less cheating i.e. same FM/DM as humans) but more historically correct regarding their planes performance.
Because it doesn't bring me any immersion to see Zero which can match my P-47 in dive and only sheer P-47 speed saves me...
I have high hopes in Oleg's crew, I'm almost positive that we will witness really good, much improved Ai in sow...

K_Freddie
10-05-2008, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by Worf101:
Two nights ago, in an online Coop. I managed to land my A-20 with only 1 working engine. Rear gunner was dead and I was smoking like a blunt. Four 109's appear and prepare to strafe me on the apron. I started my engine, and proceeded to "run circles" as fast as my bicycle gear would let me.

End Result? All 4 109's crashed into the ground trying to strafe me. I was almost blown up by their back wash but managed to live. It was amazing. So sometimes the AI giveth, sometimes the AI taketh away.

Da Worfster

Goes to show -- The ME109 is porked as the A-20 can run rings around it and win.
SO let's not hear of any complains about bombers-vs-fighters - if you do not know how to 'drive' that is not our problem
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aaron_GT
10-05-2008, 11:36 AM
Example1: you in US aircraft zero follows you in dive all the way

If you look at the WW2 dive tests the USAAF did in WW2 it is actually surprising how little the separation actually is compared to expectations. I can't remember the exact details but it is something like 200 yards after a 10,000 ft dive. Misjudge initial energy conditions it's not impossible that you wouldn't shake a Zero in a short dive, or at least not get out of gun range (e.g in a short dive if he is close you might open a 100 yard range to 200 yards).

In long dives the Zero should be left behind, but that presumes that a long dive is possible. But the Zero is going to hit factors limiting its speed before, say, an F4U so it's an argument for using high speed and especially high cruise speed wherever possible as the Zero will hit a speed brick wall even in a short dive then. It's another argument for not turning as it will bleed your speed.

Of course if the game isn't enforcing the speed limit all bets are off.

DKoor
10-05-2008, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Example1: you in US aircraft zero follows you in dive all the way

If you look at the WW2 dive tests the USAAF did in WW2 it is actually surprising how little the separation actually is compared to expectations. I can't remember the exact details but it is something like 200 yards after a 10,000 ft dive. Misjudge initial energy conditions it's not impossible that you wouldn't shake a Zero in a short dive, or at least not get out of gun range (e.g in a short dive if he is close you might open a 100 yard range to 200 yards).

In long dives the Zero should be left behind, but that presumes that a long dive is possible. But the Zero is going to hit factors limiting its speed before, say, an F4U so it's an argument for using high speed and especially high cruise speed wherever possible as the Zero will hit a speed brick wall even in a short dive then. It's another argument for not turning as it will bleed your speed.

Of course if the game isn't enforcing the speed limit all bets are off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://i35.tinypic.com/4gsvtj.jpg

You have dive limit enforced on you by the game if you surpass it you lose part of your aircraft, Ai does not have such limitations and can actually follow the P-47 in a power dive all the way.

LEBillfish
10-05-2008, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
m........So after all the griping, they detuned them again.

K2

Ok sorry to say this but what's your proof? I really want to know what games out there have really good AI in terms of what this community wants? I don't want to hear "BoB" without some proofs please I hear that a lot without generalities. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


& p.s. to my first response......Just look through the thread at all the (mostly bogus) assumptions about how great the AI is......How is it hard to believe when they tactically flew much, much better that the whiners did not win out.

Though frankly I suspect you're simply trolling.

K2

M_Gunz
10-05-2008, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Example1: you in US aircraft zero follows you in dive all the way

If you look at the WW2 dive tests the USAAF did in WW2 it is actually surprising how little the separation actually is compared to expectations. I can't remember the exact details but it is something like 200 yards after a 10,000 ft dive. Misjudge initial energy conditions it's not impossible that you wouldn't shake a Zero in a short dive, or at least not get out of gun range (e.g in a short dive if he is close you might open a 100 yard range to 200 yards).

In long dives the Zero should be left behind, but that presumes that a long dive is possible. But the Zero is going to hit factors limiting its speed before, say, an F4U so it's an argument for using high speed and especially high cruise speed wherever possible as the Zero will hit a speed brick wall even in a short dive then. It's another argument for not turning as it will bleed your speed.

Of course if the game isn't enforcing the speed limit all bets are off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

10,000 ft is short of 2 miles, call it 3 miles or a 5000 yard run in a steep dive and figure
the whole distance is not at top dive speed of either plane.

Straight dives to escape... unreal anyway, a good way to get shot up.

JSG72
10-05-2008, 05:56 PM
Charts !

Nobody said, their would be charts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

M_Gunz
10-05-2008, 07:11 PM
Yep, lets not let facts get in the way of opinions.

WTE_Galway
10-05-2008, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Yep, lets not let facts get in the way of opinions.

Facts are merely opinions were you have had more time to selectively collect the right data and eliminate anything that contradicts your opinion as an "outlyer".

TheFamilyMan
10-06-2008, 01:20 PM
My experiences with the AI is that among other things it's moody: it'll do your bidding or completely ignore you. I've yet to figure out if it's because I'm not being polite or something. As for its god-like performance, my fav story was a coop mission we did flying me262s taking on AI b24s with AI p51 escorts. Upon rtb, one of the p51's persued and caught up with us after about 2.5 minutes of 750 kph flight. And no, it was not diving down on us. We gave up on that mission after that.