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View Full Version : Why sooo difficult, Help.



XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:59 PM
Been playing il2fb a while now, and can't believe how difficult it is too even keep a bead on and shoot down even a friendly transport or bomber, not to mention enemy fighters! have tried even mild difficulty settings etc... but can't seem to get the hang of it. Any Veterans that could give me some combat advice or tactics would help me a lot. Thanks, Bon.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:59 PM
Been playing il2fb a while now, and can't believe how difficult it is too even keep a bead on and shoot down even a friendly transport or bomber, not to mention enemy fighters! have tried even mild difficulty settings etc... but can't seem to get the hang of it. Any Veterans that could give me some combat advice or tactics would help me a lot. Thanks, Bon.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:01 AM
I'm not sure I'm a "veteran", but I'm sure most here would agree that practice is your best bet....

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:02 AM
Keep cool/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"degustibus non disputandum"

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<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:05 AM
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

and then...PRACTICE some more...

Good luck...

Codex

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:07 AM
you shouldnâ´t shoot until you are atleast .40 from the target for two reasons:
One: Damage increase the closer you get to the target.
And two: The chanses of hitting are almost null at .60 and higher if the target is turning, so the closer the better!
And try to aim at the same point all the time, wonâ´t do you any good to have a bullets spread out all over the plane, concentate on one point preferably the wing root, this mostly goes for bombers, the fighters you give a burst whenever you can because they move around and itâ´s difficult to fix in on one point!


http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/pics/F19%20Lejon%20sm.jpg

http://www.f19vs.tk/

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:09 AM
If you find your joystick aiming seems to jump alot and won`t stay steady, try adjusting your stick settings so they respond smoother. That was my initial trouble.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:10 AM
Common mistake is to shoot at the aircraft when it is dead centre on your crosshair. This is OK when you are both level, but if it's a turning fight and you're banking, by the time your bullets arrive the aircraft has left that point in space and your bullets will hit air.
Aim in front of the aircarft (deflection shot). Depends on the angle and speed how far in front you aim, but you will soon figure that out...

Oh and you have to be quite close.
Have a toy with convergeance as well to get the most effective firing range...
And lots of practice.
Took me ages to get my first kill!

Message Edited on 08/11/0312:19AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:11 AM
I really am not a veteran in any sense but after practicing for a while today I got to teh point when I was able to down two avarage P51 with Fw190d9

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:11 AM
Deflection shooting is your best friend.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:45 AM
Try this:

If you're really keen an interested you should look into buying this book.

"Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manoeuvring" by Robert L. Shaw

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0870210599/qid=1060558630/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-8855960-6875257

This is THE bible on how to fight in the air. Many of the topics cover jet combat but remember the close quater and guns only tactics used by jet pilots were first fought out during WW1 and WW2 and so they apply to all aspects of air combat IL-2 FB. If you want to learn how to get an edge on those unbelievably "tweaked" I-16's (joke Oleg) this is the book to read.

Codex
319th Melbourne Raptors
http://home.iprimus.com.au/masis/






Message Edited on 08/10/0311:50PM by Codex1971

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:50 AM
Just practice, there's nothing else you can do.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:10 AM
Watch all the tracks that came with FB. Watch where their aiming when they shoot. It will help you understand deflection shooting.

Buzz25th
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------47|FC=-
<center>
"No Guts No Glory"
<center>
http://www.fighter-collection.com/p-47d/img/jug.jpg


Message Edited on 08/10/0305:18PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:15 AM
Ditto. Gotta practice. Don't make the mistake I did and practice with time compression. The best thing to do is go the the QMB and fly vs Rookie, then, Avg, then Vet then try to tackle the Aces. Its the only way. Oh,. use full real settings.

http://utenti.lycos.it/AEREOFAN/images/saetta.jpg

caccia buon!

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XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:24 AM
1) Trim the aircraft for level flight (in a 109 also apply right rudder to centre the ball.
2) Set convergence to a reasonable figure like 200-300 metres

When practicing ..

Use Quick Mission Builder to generate a mission with a novice bomber as target initially give it no ammo.

Drop game speed to quarter spped and practice at this speed.
Replay tracks of your shooting from the targets perspective to see what is happening.

As you get better increase game speed, give the bomber ammo and increase the bombers skill.

If you like eventually take game speed up to double, if you can still hit at double speed you are getting pretty good.




<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:54 AM
The killer AI will be toned down a bit with the patch so take heart. ...... and Practice....... arent you glad you cant just saddle up and rule the skies in a week?

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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michapma
08-11-2003, 09:04 AM
Combat aircraft are basically flying weapons platforms. Even when you are shooting with a high rate of fire, in order to hit anything&mdash;even a stationary target&mdash;at a distance of over 100m, you've got to have a stable platform. The first thing to do when training from zero is to learn to fly the airplane well. You have to be able to hold the airplane steady. Consider studying the basics of flight. After that you can start learning about gunnery, i.e., compensating for the effect of gravity, how to estimate how much lead you need in a deflection shot, etc.

I recommend you start at the full difficulty settings, except for views: use real gunnery, head shake and so on. To learn gunnery of course give yourself unlimited ammo, but after you pick up some gunnery skills learn how to effectively use short bursts. Don't learn to rely on unlimited ammo, it's less fun anyway.

There is some good training information in the document you can download at the site linked in my signature. Even though the doc is not compete there's already a lot of useful info for you there.

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

â =69.GIAP=Chapâ

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:37 AM
laca25 wrote:
- I really am not a veteran in any sense but after
- practicing for a while today I got to teh point when
- I was able to down two avarage P51 with Fw190d9
-
You did well to down two P51's! They're not even in the sim!



I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

Tully__
08-11-2003, 09:43 AM
Trim for the speeds you tend to do most of your shooting at.

Get close. I don't expect to get good hits at more than 0.20 (200m) from the target.

Set your gun convergance at or just over the range you're shooting at.

Practice.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:48 AM
- You did well to down two P51's! They're not even in
- the sim!

really? because I could've have sworn there are P51s


anyway, this helped me http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/fb/cms/index.php/filemanager/fileview/33/ it's a WWII RAF training doc on deflection, also PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE but someone said that already

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:53 AM
I agree with all above mentioned. "Practice is the mother of perfection"

Furthermore AND MAYBE MOST IMPORTANT is to adjust your joystick. Which is your joystick? Someone will give you some good settings for the joystick you have and then it won't "jump" each time you push it in any direction.
For example the default settings are very-very bad for my X45. I can't shoot anything easily with these settings, but since I changed them I have a very steady movement and targeting.

Tell us about your joystick....

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:00 AM
ELEM wrote:

- You did well to down two P51's! They're not even in
- the sim!

Oh, you must have the stripped-down discount version of FB then! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cheers/slush

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You can't handle the truth!
Col. Jessep

michapma
08-11-2003, 10:15 AM
ELEM, the P-51s are available as AI in FB.

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

â =69.GIAP=Chapâ

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:24 AM
Bonfleck , the best way to get better is to join a squad,
its your lucky day cause we are recruiting and we have a serious good trainingprogram with ace-trainers:
check it out : www.666th.com (http://www.666th.com)

ur most welcome, w'll help you in dogfight and coop missions, and its more fun with friends online squadflying.
we use teamspeak for comms

http://www.666th.com/uploads/forumsigs/2-devbleuscreen2.gif



papercuts are the worst

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:27 AM
training!!! but if you exercise do it on full real (you can leave speed bar on and maybe callsigns too) but cockpit on no externals. Will be hard in the beginning but therefore it's more useful than to train without cockpit and stuff, believe me.

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

fluke39
08-11-2003, 10:53 AM
there is alot of good advice above - i mostly agree with Galway - this is basically how i practiced. i would how i would do it:
practice:

in Quick mission builder against bombers with ammo set to "Empty"

use a plane that is a stable gun platform - hurricane IIc is probably best bet - but is not very fast

gradually increase "skill" level ie by making bombers smaller - then giving them ammo - then giving them fighter escort etc etc

also a joystick is a must - i'm sorry if i'm stating the obvious but not everyone has one and aiming is one of the things that a joystick makes a alot easier - if you have no joystick - get one - and in the mean time slowing the time down in game helps improve accuracy ( also as Galway says you can do this with your joystick too)

HOWEVER - practising with slow time and empty load bombers (especially empty bombers) can lead you into bad habits if you are not careful - attacking bombers from directly behind is ok for starting practice but not good in real combat as you will be dead pretty quickly. try praticing slashing attacks from above and the side when you have improved your aim /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:06 AM
IF the game is too hard, then atleast start flying with more n00b-friendly VVS-planes.. then move on to German planes, if you are up for the challenge (read: fw190) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Or you just wait for the patch..

____________________________________



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