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View Full Version : Germans stole US-aircraft design !!!



XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:56 AM
look here:

the US - Bell X-5

http://www.aerotechnews.com/phtoarc/webphot/x5/three.jpg



and the Messerschmitt P 1011 (crappy rebuild, I say!)

http://www.airventure.de/historypics/p1101__1.jpg


++ 88.IAP_Manuc ++

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:56 AM
look here:

the US - Bell X-5

http://www.aerotechnews.com/phtoarc/webphot/x5/three.jpg



and the Messerschmitt P 1011 (crappy rebuild, I say!)

http://www.airventure.de/historypics/p1101__1.jpg


++ 88.IAP_Manuc ++

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:05 AM
i think the Me was before the bell....


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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:10 AM
take a look here :

http://aerostories.free.fr/reaction/page13.html

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:10 AM
It happens...

"degustibus non disputandum"

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:16 AM
or look here, some of the prototypes of differents coutries, very interesting :

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/prototypes.com/index.html

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

Tully__
06-27-2003, 10:17 AM
Both sides spent a lot of time and effort trying to find out about the other sides secret weapons.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:18 AM
and they stole the russian design, too. right?

http://www.military.cz/russia/air/mig/Mig_9/images/MiG9FR.jpg

<center>Another BlitzPig</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:19 AM
yes...at the end of the war, all the ingenors or technician of the german were "captured" by the winners of the war.
I think the most famous is Werner von Braun, the V2, the Gemini program and the Saturn conceptor's....

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:21 AM
and the US actually invented Saurkraut and Lederhosen as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:24 AM
what is : Saurkraut and Lederhosen ???
I don't understand.....

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

fluke39
06-27-2003, 10:27 AM
Seb86 wrote:
- what is : Saurkraut and Lederhosen ???
- I don't understand.....

two very obviously german things


(ie cabbagey type stuff and traditional german costume)



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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:30 AM
ok!!

thank's!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:16 AM
Manuc, hmmm you just found large-scale industrie spionage ring...........but it confirm what we already knew. The Germans did copy all the stuff they had from US companies./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.geocities.com/kimurakai/SIG/262_01011.jpg


Kimura

Zayets
06-27-2003, 12:03 PM
Russians stolen more than the Germans from the Yankees. Besides , germany become us ally after the war , how ironic is that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.emicad.nl/~justdoit/il2/logo.jpg

Cpt.LoneRanger
06-27-2003, 12:18 PM
This is really funny.

Who do you think invented the rockets to put your astronauts in the orbit and on the moon?

Werner von Braun

and that was DEFINATELY no US engineer, LO

The US "invited" as many German engineers than they could, during the late war of the war. Aircraft engineers, nuclear scientists and all.

Infact they increased pressure on that recrutition program in the late war, because they needed the German know how for the nuclear bomb, since the tests to find out the critical mass would have taken another 2 years!!!

Remember, the Disc-Fighter, the flying-wings (B-2)prototypes and all the rocket and turbine-know how was brought into the US by German engineers. Same is for Russia.

So, I guess this post was intended to be a joke?


greets
Cpt.LoneRanger

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 12:29 PM
WTE_Galway wrote:
- and the US actually invented Saurkraut and
- Lederhosen as well /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-


Yes, and the Germans named their best battleship Bismarck after the capital of North Dakota.

MajorBloodnok

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Spouting evil commie brain-rot at, er, well Imperialists mainly, since like 1977, you know, when Star Wars came out?

Cpt.LoneRanger
06-27-2003, 12:30 PM
ROFLOL

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:44 PM
haaaaaaa,you crack me up.what your serious,doh!

After it was refeuled i climbed in.With many manipulations the mechcanics started the turbines.I followed their actions with the greatest of interest.The first one started quite easily.the second caught fire.In no time the whole engine was on fire.Luckily as a fighter pilot i was used to getting quickly out of the cockpit.The fire was quickly put out.The second plane caused no trouble - Adolf Galland (first time in a ME262)

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:57 PM
This reminds me of an old joke about US-Russia cooperation towards building a 5 stage manned spacecraft to head out to Mars.

US: We'll build 3 stages, you guys are going to build 2.
Russia: No, we're bigger than you are, we'll build 3 stages, you guys are going to build 2.
US: Once and for all, we're going to build 3.
Russia: But, but, but... why?
US: Our german engineers are better than yours.


http://members.shaw.ca/cuski4678/sig.jpg


Message Edited on 06/27/0302:58PM by cuski

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:59 PM
RIGHT, it was probably the other way around.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:18 PM
Germans hade good engineers. They invented the arrow-wing that hade good "high-angle" performance. The americans didnt understand it thouroghly. They found it out the hard way in Corea when the mig-15 was initially superior to the sabre.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:21 PM
Actually from what I understand, and i dont have the documentation to back this up but i am sure it is out there, if anything those designs were taken from the Germans.. I know the Mig..I forget which one but the first Jet..or the second one.... was actually almost a carbon copy of a German plane that the Russians got their hands on after the war. The Japanese had taken the Me-262 design to another level with stuff that was not seen till the 50s in allied aircraft. Truth be told the Germans were very much a part of the science that became our modern age.... even computers... they wer the first to really use computers..even though what they were using them for was diabolical....the were in bed with IBM and their hole punced card system.... the current life vests we have now?...the results of Nazi experiments on concentration camp victims, Their helmets?....can you say USArmy standard issue? It amazes me how much we all can share in the collective benifits and by proxy the collective blame for what we as a species have done over the centuries.... And lets not forget the B-2 bomber...can you say Horten Wing? In fact the Lockheed engineers went to the Smithsonians hanger in Maryland where there is a Horten in mothballs (To be made public when the new aeronatics wing opens at Dulles next spring!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) to get the design. Dont forget....modern stealth technology was first invented by....the Germans...by accident!!! While testing the Horten wing someone in the tower noticed that the plane barely showed up on radar...yes the Germans had it too in the end.... even though they were watching it with thier eyes!!! Stealth is born!!!! Amazing stuff.....


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Message Edited on 06/27/0306:45PM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:22 PM
blasphemy!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

"The Sturmoviks are as needed as water and bread" -J. Stalin

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:25 PM
Cpt.LoneRanger wrote:
-
- Remember, the Disc-Fighter, the flying-wings
- (B-2)prototypes and all the rocket and turbine-know
- how was brought into the US by German engineers.
- Same is for Russia.


That's a big missconception, Northrop was working on a flying wing long before The Hortons had any real success

http://www.airspacemag.com/asm/mag/supp/jj97/wing.html

Lets face it, it's one of those 100th monkey deals, Northrop, the Hortons and Alexander Lippisch all started working on and advocating the flying wing design at around the same time, and while Northrop did look at the Horton designs later before building the B-2, it was actually the continuation of designs he started as early as 1937/38.

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 11:28 PM
Of course, the Nazis weren't the only one to copy American ingenuity, check out the this rip-off!

http://www.10-david.com/pictures/gatling_gun_by_proximo.jpg

http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/images/gatling/gat1865.jpg

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:02 AM
Bearcat99 wrote:
- Actually from what I understand, and i dont have the
- documentation to back this up but i am sure it is
- out there, if anything those designs were taken from
- the Germans.. I know the Mig..I forget which one but
- the first Jet..or the second one.... was actually
- almost a carbon copy of a German plane that the
- Russians got their hands on after the war. The
- Japanese had taken the Me-262 design to another
- level with stuff that was not seen till the 50s in
- allied aircraft. Truth be told the Germans were very
- much a part of the science that became our modern
- age.... even computers... they wer the first to
- really use computers..even though what they were
- using them for was diabolical....the were in bed
- with IBM and their hole punced card system.... the
- current life vests we have now?...the results of
- Nazi experiments on concentration camp victims,
- Their helmets?....can you say USArmy standard issue?
- It amazes me how much we all can share in the
- collective benifits and by proxy the collective
- blame for what we as a species have done over the
- centuries.... And lets not forget the B-2
- bomber...can you say Horten Wing? In fact the
- Lockheed engineers went to the Smithsonians hanger
- in Maryland where there is a Horten in mothballs (To
- be made public when the new aeronatics wing opens at
- Dulles next spring!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) to get the design. Dont
- forget....modern stealth technology was first
- invented by....the Germans...by accident!!! While
- testing the Horten wing someone in the tower noticed
- that the plane barely showed up on radar...yes the
- Germans had it too in the end.... even though they
- were watching it with thier eyes!!! Stealth is
- born!!!! Amazing stuff.....
-
-
-

Surely you realise that the punch card system preceded the formation of IBM by years, and the very first computer was built by the same company that later became IBM, and it was built to aid in a US census? It reduced the time needed to count the census by about 7 years. The US Navy used computers in WWII, both in the fire control for Battleships, and aboard submarines. But the computer as it was known then had already been around in the US for years. It was designed and built by a US citizen, who was, I beleive, of German descent. So what? Like I'm a Navajo? Bottom line: the designer and builder was a US citizen. John Paul Jones was a Scot, and he's the Father of the US Navy. Point being: he wasn't born in the US either, and he served the US Navy and also, later, Imperial Russia's Navy. But he was an American citizen.

The Mig you are thinking of is the Mig-15. And yes, it borrows heavily from the Horten design.

Nazi helmets were not "Nazi" helmets, they were actually in use by Germany in World War One. They mimicked the Roman Legionnaire's he;met design. Current US helmet design reflects efficiency in protection, something every protective piece of headgear tries to emulate. the German helmet is similar to but not identical to the US design in use today. there similarities are less of a result of copying a design than the fact that that particluar shape is good for protecteing the head.

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:31 AM
BBB462cid wrote:
-

- The Mig you are thinking of is the Mig-15. And yes,
- it borrows heavily from the Horten design.
-
-

Nope, it was the Ta183 by Focke-Wulf.

---

What no one has heard of Dr. Frank Goddard who was testing liquid fueled rockets in the USA.

"In 1914, Goddard received two U.S. patents. One was for a rocket using liquid fuel. The other was for a two or three stage rocket using solid fuel."

"His rocket flight in 1929 carried the first scientific payload on a rocket, a barometer, and a camera. Dr. Goddard developed and demonstrated the basic idea of the "bazooka" two days before the Armistice in 1918 at the Aberdeen Proving Ground."

more at: http://www.geocities.com/duppim/VB04.html


There was also a Russian scientist that was quite active in early rocket research.



http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap18a.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:44 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
-
- BBB462cid wrote:
--
-
-- The Mig you are thinking of is the Mig-15. And yes,
-- it borrows heavily from the Horten design.
--
--
-
- Nope, it was the Ta183 by Focke-Wulf.
-
----
-
- I stand corrected: I was confusing the two aircraft

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:45 AM
F-86 Sabre

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/NAF-86.htm

Mig-15

http://www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com/Aircraft/Mig-15/Page1.html

Bell X-1

http://users.dbscorp.net/jmustain/x1.htm

Flying Wings

http://www.gsansom.demon.co.uk/vfaero/oneoff/vf11.htm


Message Edited on 06/28/03‚ 01:03AM by SECUDUS

Message Edited on 06/28/0301:09AM by SECUDUS

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:47 AM
But who put the rockets in the planes and flew them first and with success? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 01:47 AM
Right-o, guess a rocket engine is a rocket engine, no evolution ever taken place in this field.

I'd like to see your superior V-1 type rocket engine boost anything into outer space. Such wonder toys, too bad they had zero impact on the war, wonder why that is?

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:10 AM
Von Braun had little to do with the apollo program. He was a supporter of unmanned space probes. he saw the human publicity man flights to the moon as a death to nasa's exploration of space.

He was partly right for when the public interest on manned trips to the moon so did NASA's budget...

ps Horten flew successful there first flying wing 2 years b4 northrop did.

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:49 AM
Belrick wrote:

- ps Horten flew successful there first flying wing 2
- years b4 northrop did.
-

That was not the argument, it was stated that the development of the B-2 was based off the off the Horton brothers designs that were capture from the Germans after the war. when in fact many people were developing the idea long before that, including Hugo Junkers who patented a flying wing glider in 1910.

I'm just stating that the Bearcat, and the other guy are wrong in their assumption that had it not been for German tech developed during WWII there would be no B-2.

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:53 AM
Nice catch, I love this forum :\

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