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View Full Version : I've been away for a while - what's up with trim in 4.01?



drapis
09-07-2005, 03:34 PM
Greetings,

I haven't played Il-2 for a while and recently I've installed it back, installed latest patch and with horror watched myself to be barely able to keep off ground.

Planes are constantly banking to the side, so I guess it's the new flight model I've been hearing about. I tried to counter this with trimming, but only with limited success. It's very speed dependable.

Any suggestions? And what am I supposed to do about planes with no rudder trim (aka 109)?

thx

drapis
09-07-2005, 03:34 PM
Greetings,

I haven't played Il-2 for a while and recently I've installed it back, installed latest patch and with horror watched myself to be barely able to keep off ground.

Planes are constantly banking to the side, so I guess it's the new flight model I've been hearing about. I tried to counter this with trimming, but only with limited success. It's very speed dependable.

Any suggestions? And what am I supposed to do about planes with no rudder trim (aka 109)?

thx

EiZ0N
09-07-2005, 04:08 PM
Engine torque causes the planes to turn to the left (or so I'm told)

Hard rudder right when taking off, and I simply use the < and > keys to keep the plane flying straight. Or I just hold the stick (I've never really bothered with trim, it always seemed slow and unresponsive).

VF-29_Sandman
09-07-2005, 05:30 PM
isnt any rudder trim on 109's after take-off; that's set by ground crew, and that includes airleon trim. some russian planes also doesnt have adjustable trim either..il-2 being 1 of em.

drapis
09-07-2005, 06:01 PM
yes, I'm aware that you can counter torque with rudder, but planes keep banking left even in flight. I'm able to counter this with rudder trim (if available), but amount of trim required is constantly changing (depends on speed), so I end up trimming my plane all the time ...

So, is this the only way, or am I missing something?

FoolTrottel
09-07-2005, 06:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So, is this the only way, or am I missing something? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's the only way.
Fortunately they invented cruisin' speed for this.
Aircraft with few(er) trim controls tend to be trimmed for that speed ...
Keep it at that speed ... (untill .... action!)

It helps if you put them trim-things on a slider!

Oh, and welcome back!
Have Fun!

LEXX_Luthor
09-07-2005, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">is constantly changing (depends on speed) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed that's how it works. In an attempt to prevent Online Slider Trim Cheat, Oleg crippled FB's trim control, and so had to severely tone down the effects of trim. With the 4.0 New FM, trim effects have been brought up to more realistic levels, but we also have returned the ability to control the trim. I suggest mapping elevator trim to mousewheel -- it gives a more realistic feeling control without any slider effects.

drapis
09-07-2005, 07:16 PM
I too do remember RBJ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-07-2005, 07:21 PM
oops, I was editing the idea behind my post -- more explanation, less Slogan.

And Ya, SPOCK! to RBJ (of the Luftwaffe) for keeping attention to the crippled trim, something the http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif "hard core" Old Timer internet dogfighters hated him for.

RBJ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Eraser_tr
09-07-2005, 07:53 PM
The constant banking left could be your joystick as well, it might need to be recalibrated.

On the issue of trim though, I wish we could have a difficulty setting or key to toggle automatic trimming. I appreciate the realism and accuracy added to the FM, but I bought the game for combat, not adjusting my plane every altitude and speed change. That other sim that everyone so venomously hates has a convenient crtl+a and trim is taken care of for you, while still letting you adjust it manually if you like.

LEXX_Luthor
09-07-2005, 08:06 PM
You may try turning OFF the Tork setting, or other FM settings. I never tried turning them OFF to see how it effects trimming requirements, but according to the posts above, the Tork helps cause the Bank. Try it.

LEBillfish
09-07-2005, 08:42 PM
In a 109 and the like slow your throttle once up to cruising speed down to say 40%...you'll keep the same speed but the plane will not have the torque so will trim out........As it really was supposedly.

drapis
09-08-2005, 06:04 AM
ok, trim on the slider it is ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JerryFodder
09-08-2005, 08:10 AM
You need a slider on the stick you use, if you do not then you cannot do it. The nearest suggestion is to set the elevator trim to the mouse wheel but i've not figured out how to do this exactly. Personally I use crtl+ up/down arrows multiple times and guess it.

If you are spinning on takeoff then suggest more airspeed and being gentle on the stick - you are stalling.

IL2-chuter
09-08-2005, 01:07 PM
A tired horse here, but the 190 didn't need constantly retrimmed for different speeds above 220mph (or, for different speeds below 220mph). Of course, trim varied with load and fuel. I don't know if there are variations in trim modeling within the game or not . . . can't quite tell.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

NonWonderDog
09-08-2005, 02:03 PM
Trim works pretty much like it should now. I can't vouch for the amount of trim you need, but it doesn't seem very wrong.

Every plane needs to be retrimmed on every axis for different speeds. Even a Cessna Cardinal I've flown needs a little bit of side pressure on the yoke at "high" speed. It's not too much of a stretch to think that a warbird with a huge engine, assymetrical wings or tailplanes, and a huge speed range would do this a lot more.

The engine torque tries to rotate the plane directly and the prop causes a few assymetric and spiral propwash efffects. These effects vary with power and, to a lesser extent, AoA. To keep the plane flying straight, it's trimmed against these forces. Trim effects vary with airspeed (EAS, I believe).

Obviously, there's only one trim setting for each airspeed, power setting, altitude, and weight that will result in perfectly straight and level flight. Even in a FW-190. Even in a Piper Cub.

If you actually ****** the throttle and RPM when cruising (try about 65% for starters), you won't have to worry too much about trim. Just don't expect the plane to fly perfectly level on its own at every speed; no plane can do that.

LEXX_Luthor
09-08-2005, 05:32 PM
JerryFolder:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">set the elevator trim to the mouse wheel but i've not figured out how to do this exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At the bottom of the input menu is the HOTAS section. Click on the elevator trim box (this activates the box for the next input) -- then roll mousewheel either way. I forgot which way is positive Z axis or negative Z axis, but if your mousewheel trimming moves the opposite the way you want it, go back to the input menu and roll the mousewheel into the trim box the other way.

Bluedog72
09-08-2005, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EiZ0N:
Engine torque causes the planes to turn to the left (or so I'm told)

Hard rudder right when taking off, and I simply use the &lt; and &gt; keys to keep the plane flying straight. Or I just hold the stick (I've never really bothered with trim, it always seemed slow and unresponsive). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem with just ignoring it is that your plane in general will be very slow and unresponsive if badly out of trim.
Rudder trim in particular is important to keep the plane going straight through the air, not kicked sideways a bit.

There is no way you will ever reach maximum speed without using rudder trim in a plane that has it.

Try trim again, it isnt anywhere near as slow and unresponsive as in previous versions of the game.

Oh, and BTW, lock your tailwheel for takeoff, it makes it much easier, you still need rudder imput, but not anything like as much.

antifreeze
09-10-2005, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There is no way you will ever reach maximum speed without using rudder trim in a plane that has it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not saying you're wrong, but I've found the opposite in the game so far.
I thought applying any trim created more drag, and rudder more-so because
it increases side-slip of the fuselage?

Tully__
09-10-2005, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Antifreeze:
...I thought applying any trim created more drag, and rudder more-so because
it increases side-slip of the fuselage? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At most power settings the prop wash pushing on the vertical stabilizer causes some side slip. For best maximum speed you need to use rudder or rudder trim to cancel the prop wash induced slip. Check the slip indicator (the "ball" in most aicraft) for confirmation.