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WereSnowleopard
04-25-2005, 09:46 AM
Hello men and women from high sea. Can you post your experience how danger on speed of wind in open sea on 200 ft/60 meter lenght boats. (VII's lenght: 67 m or 218 ft)I used to ride on fishing party boat which is 50 ft/15 m as I get idea how dangerous in degree of wind effect on low profile and short beam boat compare to high profile with better rails around wide beam boat what I stand on. Main reason I want post is try clear up why can not manning the guns in high wind. I hope that post can be sticky to clear up many posts about why can not manning the guns in storms. Also maybe someone can post pictures in real-life boat vs high wind in open sea. Sorry if my english loook bad. Let me know to edit it. Thank you.

Regards
Snowleopard

Franzen
04-25-2005, 10:50 AM
Hi WereSnowLeopard,

I worked for 5 years on the north west atlantic ocean, the areas between Maine and Nova Scotia and also between Nova Scotia and Iceland. I've seen some interesting weather.

I have SH3 but cannot play since I have only a laptop pc at this time. It's kinda a game/anti-game situation. I have no idea of what the gameplay or graphics are like but I've seen many complaints in the forums about not being able to use the deck gun in storms. I'll offer my 2 cents.

A u-boat sits very low in the water and due to its shape (long and thin) I believe being on deck in even moderate whether would be very dangerous. I've seen footage of a u-boat in 5 meter waves and wished I was there, but only on the coning tower. I imagine the feeling would be a slight pressure going into the wave until the wave reaches the coning tower, then there would be a sudden shuddering thump.

Something else, as a hunter you learn never let the end of your gun barrel touch the snow. Believe it or not, people have died or seriously injured themselves when they fire there gun, not realizing they got a little snow in the end of the barrel. What happens is the gun literally explodes at the breach, closest to your face. The pressure of the exploding shell inside cannot push the snow out fast enough and the gun cannot contain the pressure.

Now, imagine being on a u-boat in a storm. The bow breaks through a wave and water ends up in the barrel. You wanna be standing beside it when it fires?

Another thought is how can you possibly aim when your gun is going up and down. You may hit a seagull or a perch. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Also, knowing how a u-boat cuts so cleanly through a wave, would you want to be on deck? You wouldn't be there for long and even with safety straps you wouldn't survive the impact of the wave.

I'm sorry that in all my time at sea I never once took a camera. Salt water, even in the air quickly destroys the camera. Many times I wished I had brought a camera cause I know nobody would believe what I was experiencing.

I remember my friends telling me I should see the movie "The Perfect Storm". I thought it would be boring and ridiculous that they made a movie about this. Finally, bored out of my mind, one night I decided to watch it. I was amazed at how realistic it was, with acception to George Clooney hanging on a boom with blow torch trying to cut a chain. That was very Hollywoodish.

But the walls of water rising about the boat and breaking over it was very realistic. Once we even capsized and were rolled back over so quickly we only suffered cuts and bruises, luckily no one was on deck.

By the way, they this movie was based on real events. I remember the storm and they even mentioned my village in the movie(Digby). Like so many others we sat in front of our TVs(before we lost power for over two weeks) and waited to hear news about the boat and its crew.

I loved those days on the sea. The work is hard and sometimes extremely dangerous. A few times we were sure we wouldn't see land again. At this point you are not afraid and you welcome each wave. The adrenaline is rushing and you lose fear of everything. It's hard to explain but you wish for the next wave to be your last. I don't know if it's because you want it to end or if it's because you want to be closer to the fight.

Sorry to run off like that. It's a very interesting experience that you cannot share and only few get to see it. The boats I worked on varied in size from 40ft to 270ft. I fished for lobsters(most dangerous but most exciting) and also did handlining, trawling, and dragging. I lost a few buddies to the sea but that's the job. Atleast I know they died doing something they loved.

As I said, I haven't seen the game and don't know how well they were able to model the water. But I feel in moderate weather the deckgun would have been impossible to use.

Fritz Franzen

Bergman
04-25-2005, 02:44 PM
I sail on vessels of about 100 meter. With heavy cargo and the waves abeam it can be hard to keep standing without holding on to something in a force 9/10 gale. And then you have to pass live ammo through the submarine to the deckcrew? Also nobody is crazy enough to go on deck then as they will be washed away in the next wave, those kind of waves are strong enough to flatten steel plates if you sail at full speed into them. Problem with waves is that they might look small but have a lot of weight.

Dominicrigg
04-25-2005, 04:08 PM
Also in game they look small but are big, its hard to get an idea of size in game from the roving camera.

Eg if you set a torp to 9 metres below the surface and watch it, it doesnt look that deep at all.

Once i had a bug in the sink the couragous mission where i could man the gun though it was 7m/s waves. And so i took photos

Maybe they could stay on if they are holding on here and ready, but they couldnt fire and prepare for that wave.
http://img260.echo.cx/img260/7412/bigwave2fz.jpg

Mmm looking pretty bad at this point.
http://img260.echo.cx/img260/549/gluglug8yr.jpg

Just the tops of their heads showing lol
http://img260.echo.cx/img260/6831/proof3gl.jpg

The thing is no one who wants the guns to fire in rough seas, has come forward with any evidence for them having ever been fired in rough seas.

A cool video on the deck gun in action can be found here at the excellent uboat net

http://uboat.net/special/videos/

The "On board" movie has some cool deck gun footage, shows you the power of the gun too!

Hope thats of interest to you.

WereSnowleopard
04-26-2005, 09:18 PM
Hello everyone whom already posted messages on my topic, thank you. I see about salt water effect on camera. Maybe someone will show us shots from inside pilot house. I hear new tv show will show about most dangerous job in world as crew filming commerical fisherman in action at sea near Alaska.

Regards
Snowleopard

Franzen
04-26-2005, 10:50 PM
Hi Weresnowleopard,

I had a couple buddies who had gone west to see if they could make some money at crab fishing off Alaska. They said the weather in the north Pacific is about the same as the north Atlantic. I guess it's a "north" thing.

If you live anywhere near a beach just thik of the pressure of a 1 meter wave hitting you. You are standing on solid ground. Now, Imagine your solid ground is constantly moving horizontally and vertically. Also, add 10 to 15 knots to the speed of the wave, compensating for the boat's speed.

Those pics posted above of the crew trying to man the deckgun cracked me up. There is a bug in the game! The crew seems to have survived. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

About the camera, well, one day we were in a storm. I was working just behind the wheelhouse, facing the bow, while my partner was with me facing the stern. I happened to look up and saw a wall of water coming right over the wheelhouse. I'm happy my friend wasn't too big cause I threw him into the wheelhouse but could get in myself. As the wave broke over us is had control of me and was washing me to the stern. I was lucky enough, reaching for anything, to grab onto some of our gear. It washed me and the gear to the stern and almost pulled me over.

When things cleared a little it didn't take long for my partner to help me up out of the mess of ropes and and gear. All the glass in our wheelhouse was gone. We even lost some of our electronics. To add to the excitment we had an electrical fire in the "cud" and could find the fireexstinguisher for about 5 minutes. Fire is your worst fear 100 miles out to sea.

Once the fire was out the captain ordered us to dump all our gear and even our catch( live catch for the animal activists) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

We made it back in and were laid up a week for repairs. It took us another week to reclaim our gear(2 miles from where we dumped it)and repair it.

In these times you don't think of bringing a camera, or if you had brought one, you don't think of using it.

Believe it or not, I miss those times.

BTW, as for pressure of waves, 3 of my buddies were lost when a wave took their wheelhouse right of the boat. We guessed that they were in the wheelhouse when it happened. The next day the hull was found washed up on the beach. One guy was found lodged between the engine and the hull. They never had a chance. May they rest in peace.

Fritz Franzen

KarlSteiner
04-27-2005, 04:23 AM
Hi WereSnowLeopard,

I am a Sailor an Captain of an own Long_Range_Cruiser.

I will give a link to you and all the other interested sealords related to all things about seamenship.

American Practical Navigator:

http://pollux.nss.nima.mil/pubs/pubs_j_apn_sections.html?rid=187

Best regards

Karl

WereSnowleopard
04-28-2005, 04:46 PM
Thank you again as much more information!

I remembered some stuff when I was early teenage as my friends ask me to join to salmon run fishing party on boat for first time however it keep cancel several time as they simple said " too windy" as I don't understand that don't effect salmon in water until finally I get on boat then I understand how much effect that they don't want inexperience people on open board in rough sea in fishing trip.

Cheerful
Snowleopard

WereSnowleopard
04-28-2005, 04:51 PM
Oh one more thing add to fishing trip...I bet lot of inexperince people will get bad case of seasick! LOL It doesn't effect me because of my deafness.

Cheerful
Snowleopard

Twelvefield
04-28-2005, 09:22 PM
I remember reading a magazine article written by a fisherman whose boat sank in bad weather. A very sad story, as the boat was crewed by family, so the guy lost many of his relatives.

The fisherman was floating (more or less) in one of those safety suits that are supposed to protect against cold and drowning. He described bobbing like a water-logged cork amongst these gigantic waves. When he was at the crest of the wave, the howling wind would tear at him like he put his head against a band sander. When he was in the trough of a wave, he would be in a lee, and it was almost serene, so that he could look up and see the storm raging above him, but he was untouched in the valley between the waves.

The dark, the cold, the noise, and the repetitive movement all lulled him into a wierd fugue state, where just like Fritz Franzen was saying, he welcomed the next wave. He had the strong feeling that he was directly in God's hands, and more or less lost track of his physical senses, like sensory deprivation. He believed that he was dead and in heaven.

Eventually, the storm broke up enough that he could be spotted for rescue, and he was plucked from the sea. He was incredibly sad about what happened to his family, but also incredibly moved in a spiritual way by his experience -- it was the most momentous thing to ever happen to him. His writing was extremely haunting, and a very unusual piece to see in one of those best-bets travel magaizines you find in your dentists' waiting room.