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WereSnowleopard
11-20-2004, 12:24 PM
oooops, I mean "How many Vals does it take to sink a US carrier?"
Do you feel that PF's IJN's naval strike is so weak "antonym+uber" against US Carrier force with playable plane D3A1 Val?

Regards
Snowleopard

Bewolf
11-20-2004, 12:35 PM
I don't know anything about the Val. But I sincerly hope it had other arming options then only a 250kg+2x60kg bombs.

Not much you can do with that.

NegativeGee
11-20-2004, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WereSnowleopard:
oooops, I mean "How many Vals does it take to sink a US carrier?"
Do you feel that PF's IJN's naval strike is so weak "antonym+uber" against US Carrier force with playable plane D3A1 Val?

Regards
Snowleopard <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We could also ask the question how many H81A-2 P-40B or C's does it take to shoot a Val down at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Jieitai_Tsunami
11-20-2004, 12:52 PM
I know this one.. About 8

But vals weren't supposed to sink a carrier they just caused a lot of mess for the crew to clean up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. The US made there decks out of wood so they were easy to mess up.

The kates were supposed to sink the carriers after the vals had finnished but for now they are online Ai.. Betty soon though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Check my movie to see vals sinking a US carrier http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

http://tinypic.com/jzpz5

http://www.203ku.com/Nihonkaigun.mov

Fliger747
11-20-2004, 01:33 PM
The final sum of the experience of all of the carrier vrs carrier battles of WWII was that it generally took an airgroup to sink a carrier, in other words it took a whole cariers plane strike to generally sink an opposing carrier. Defense was better (generally) than was initially thought.

There is an interesting book out called 'Fleet Tactics' which anaylizes the development of carrier warfare tactics during WWII in one of it's chapters.

Most of this is irrelevent to this sim, but thre was 'Pacifc Air War' many years ago which did take fleet tactics into it's fold.

chris455
11-20-2004, 01:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We could also ask the question how many H81A-2 P-40B or C's does it take to shoot a Val down at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Negative, you hit that one on the head! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

xanty
11-20-2004, 01:43 PM
Talking about the D3A Val....

yes, it's pay-load is pitiful when it comes to hit a carrier. I am having a great deal of trouble on Midway.

I am also experiencing a new thing in 3.01... at bomb-dives I keep loosing the gears at only 500Km/h (true air speed) and it is very frustrating. Anyone can confirm this? Loosing landing gear at 500Km/h (TAS) when diving?

Thanks

NegativeGee
11-20-2004, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We could also ask the question how many H81A-2 P-40B or C's does it take to shoot a Val down at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Negative, you hit that one on the head! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

At least the Vals wing mounted fuel tanks seem vunerable to catching fire now which is a step up up on 3.00, I noticed this when I was seeing if there had been any changes on the damage model for the Curtiss.

Well, I was thinking that for about 2 seconds before the other Val took out my alierons, elevator and rudder controls with a hit or two. Sucks to be me I thought as I grabbed my 'chute http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

And xanty, a few people have mentioned about the bug with fixed landing gear breaking off at high speed. Apparently affects th Ju-87 and Rufe as well.

J30Vader
11-20-2004, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bewolf:
I don't know anything about the Val. But I sincerly hope it had other arming options then only a 250kg+2x60kg bombs.

Not much you can do with that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It didn't have the power to carry a 1,000lb bomb. So yeah, you're kind of stuck.

DIRTY-MAC
11-20-2004, 03:02 PM
Man that Val is a mighty good dogfighter
I love it

J30Vader
11-20-2004, 03:04 PM
Now if the Kate was flyable:

Armament: (B5N1) One x 7.7 mm machine gun, in rear cockpit

Underwing racks for 2 x 250 kg bombs or 6 x 60 kg bombs

(B5N2) Twin 7.7 mm machine guns, in rear cockpit

Two x 7.7 mm machine guns, fixed, above forward fuselage

Fuselage centreline rack for one 800 kg (18-inch) torpedo or 3 x 250 kg bombs

azpilot
11-20-2004, 04:04 PM
IRL, one of the biggest drawbacks of the Val(aside from lack or protection) was that it couldn't carry heavy loads, which meant that large numbers of Val's were needed to threaten a carrier.

269GA-Maxmars
11-20-2004, 04:19 PM
Heh if we could just fit a couple of Tiny Tims into a Val, we could sink a CV with only one plane!

Feathered_IV
11-20-2004, 04:23 PM
Hmmm. It only takes one H81A-2 P-40B or C' to destroy a val - providing it's parked on the flightline and you crash into it doing an out of control wingover on takeoff.

Hendley
11-20-2004, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am also experiencing a new thing in 3.01... at bomb-dives I keep loosing the gears at only 500Km/h (true air speed) and it is very frustrating. _Anyone can confirm this? Loosing landing gear at 500Km/h (TAS) when diving? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has been reported elsewhere, but not only Vals, but Rufes and Stukas are loosing their undercarriage at 400km/h or so. The assumption is that it'll be fixed in the next patch. Hope so--just spent the evening online landing one-legged Stukas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Willey
11-20-2004, 06:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xanty:
Talking about the D3A Val....

yes, it's pay-load is pitiful when it comes to hit a carrier. I am having a great deal of trouble on Midway.

I am also experiencing a new thing in 3.01... at bomb-dives I keep loosing the gears at only 500Km/h (true air speed) and it is very frustrating. _Anyone can confirm this? Loosing landing gear at 500Km/h (TAS) when diving?_

Thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep fixed gears and outer Rufe floaters come off at ~420 IAS.

VF15_Muto
11-20-2004, 06:51 PM
The U.S. did dive bombing well.

The IJN did torpedo attacks well.

Typically, when a U.S. carrier was sunk, it was due to torpedo damage. Conversely, when an IJN carrier was sunk, it was nearly always bomb damage (U.S. torpedo technology was horribly infantile compared to the Japanese). One of the reasons the U.S. dive bombing was so effective was because the IJN had wholly inadequate fire control technology and procedures on their carriers. Similar bomb hits to both a U.S. and IJN carrier resulted in much more damage on the IJN carrier because fire swiftly spread out of control. USN damage control was swift, effective and state-of-the-art.

However, one well placed (i.e. lucky) bomb could ruin a whole ship's day ... one 250-kg bomb in the forward magazine could sink one of the world's largest battleships (USS Arizona), and it was the fires from bomb damage on Lexington which caused the gasoline fumes released by torpedo damage to later ignite and explode below decks and on the hangar deck which mortally wounded Lady Lex.

If a sim modelled a couple 'hot spots' on each ship which were difficult to hit but which caused significant and possibly fatal damage if hit, that would be welcome realism.

S~!
VF15_Muto

p1ngu666
11-20-2004, 08:11 PM
well, if the vals fm is correct, id say u could carry heaveier bombs
usn carries 3x 500lbs which is 750kg or so
val is 370kg?

mind u, the val needs to dodge about, and ive found the val tobe pretty weak, but great tnb aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

chris455
11-20-2004, 08:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Hmmm. It only takes one H81A-2 P-40B or C' to destroy a val - providing it's parked on the flightline and you crash into it doing an out of control wingover on takeoff. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

chris455
11-20-2004, 08:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

However, one well placed (i.e. lucky) bomb could ruin a whole ship's day ... one 250-kg bomb in the forward magazine could sink one of the world's largest battleships (USS Arizona),

S~!
VF15_Muto <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bomb that destroyed USS Arizona weighed
1,763 lbs and was a converted (16"?) AP shell.
It was dropped from a Nakajima B5N Kate topedo bomber flying in the level bomber role.
FYI http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WereSnowleopard
11-20-2004, 09:00 PM
Yes! That's what I was talk about "hot Spot" critial area. I knew most of US carrier got few bombs hits plus few torpedoes but never sunk itself by air strike unless US destroyers/Japanese submarines finish heavy damaged USN carrier. I wonder if Oleg will model damage effect on ships in more reality way in BOB2005?

At Midway, IJN carriers sunk because of bombs, torpedoes, and planes was pile up on top of flat as they was re-armed, so they may be different result in PF. I wonder if flyable Kate should have that special "16" bomb.

Cheers
Snowleopard

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 09:05 PM
After the fleet D.M. just add in a lil' evasive maneuvering fer the fleet and its cherry!!!

yes I could see the DM coming from SHIII. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VF15_Muto
11-21-2004, 12:44 AM
Roger on the Kate AP bomb on Arizona ... the point is that a well-placed 600-lb bomb can do the same thing if the fuse was delayed-action and the deck was wooden.

S~!
VF15_Muto

Dunkelgrun
11-21-2004, 02:52 AM
Have a look at this guys: http://www.pacificamilitary.com/chapters/html/clash.htm

These poor sods in Vals had to attack an invasion task force armed with nothing more than 60kg bombs, then ditch on the way home (those that were left).

Cheers!

xanty
11-21-2004, 04:57 AM
The Kate should be able to carry:

* 6x60kgs bombs
* 2x250kgs bomb
* 1x800kgs bomb
* 1x800kgs torpedo

Unfortunally, this is not well modelled in the game. I hope, if the Kate ever becomes flyable, that it will be corrected, as well as the bomb-racks of the single bombs placed more forwards, as indicated here: http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/B5N_1.jpg

Regards

WereSnowleopard
11-21-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xanty:
The Kate should be able to carry:

* 6x60kgs bombs
* 2x250kgs bomb
* 1x800kgs bomb
* 1x800kgs torpedo

Unfortunally, this is not well modelled in the game. I hope, if the Kate ever becomes flyable, that it will be corrected, as well as the bomb-racks of the single bombs placed more forwards, as indicated here: http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/B5N_1.jpg

Regards <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Xanty,
I like your post in my message even that screenshot is worth in thousand words. Can you please post that message in Oleg's ready room to ask if they can correctly add bombs in one of patches in futures please. Thank you.

Regards
Snowleopard