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View Full Version : I've said this before, and now I'll say it again



Sharpe26
03-17-2009, 06:44 AM
If Il2 gets you interested in the ww2 era, your best chance on finding info isn't really here on the web.

Its in those second hand books stores that you've never bothered to look in. The chances of finding something that was written when those recollections were fresher then they are now increases expotentially.

crucislancer
03-17-2009, 08:11 AM
Good point.

But, you can come to the web first to get an idea on what you are looking for. I would have had no idea that Adolf Galland wrote "The First and the Last" if I hadn't checked the web.

ytareh
03-17-2009, 08:54 AM
Mmmm not so sure here ...I believe the more recent sources tend to be more accurate/reliable....Take the russian/soviet stuff for example ...pre 89 could be ,well , 'sketchy' ...and very hard to access this side of the Iron Curtain.As a tiny example Clostermann (in his excellent The Big Show) speaks of regular encounters in his book with "TA152"s when modern sources would suggest they were a very rare plane in operational service...
In one of the most respected Bf109 volumes of the 50s-70s by Nowarra practically all the variants are listed as having the same top speed!

danjama
03-17-2009, 10:11 AM
I like the sound of that Galland book!

What brought on this thread anyway, something must have triggered it?

I personally have been interested in WW2 since i was old enough to understand it. One of my best resources for material is my local library, on days like today when it's nice and sunny i go and grab a book and a chair and sit by the window and just relax. The library has such a great range, i remember the first time i discovered it i was overwhelmed. And of course little book stores as you say. Theres a great one in Upminster i like to look in. And one round the corner from the London IWM, the name is lost on me now but it sells models too. Really good shop.

I dont think you should underestimate the internet though. There are hundreds of websites dedicated to old units with stories from the veterans themselves, which i think is wonderful. It can only mean this stuff is more easily accessible right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

jarink
03-17-2009, 01:37 PM
Actually, I find the various fighter and bomber group association websites, plus forums such as those at armyairforces.com and the Warbird Information Exchange are invaluable sources for all things related to WWII aviation.

It's not just the data you can find on the web, it's the contacts.

vpmedia
03-17-2009, 01:56 PM
lost knowledge in the second hand book store http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sounds like a harry potter book...

megalopsuche
03-17-2009, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Sharpe26:
If Il2 gets you interested in the ww2 era, your best chance on finding info isn't really here on the web.

Funny, I thought most of us come to sims like this because of a previous interest in historical aviation. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-17-2009, 02:06 PM
I never read anything in a book I could not find on the www.

Dance
03-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Books are better than taking your notebook to the can, if you run out of paper http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Still, I like my books, although the interfneb has its uses http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

pwengland
03-17-2009, 03:17 PM
I have bought about 35 books about WWII from second hand book stores. Most are fairly recent books in mint condition that I get for half price or less, but I've found quite a few gems that have been out of print for thirty or forty years that you just can't find anywhere else.
Sure there is a wealth of information on the web, but to stare at a monitor for several hours just isn't the same as a comfortable chair and a good book!

DKoor
03-17-2009, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Sharpe26:
If Il2 gets you interested in the ww2 era, your best chance on finding info isn't really here on the web.

Its in those second hand books stores that you've never bothered to look in. The chances of finding something that was written when those recollections were fresher then they are now increases expotentially. Yes.
Even average book is a lot better. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

slipBall
03-17-2009, 04:11 PM
Is it google that plan's to put every book ever written on the web?...I feel a bad case of eye strain coming on http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hookecho
03-17-2009, 04:15 PM
A squadron mate picked up a used copy of Bud Andersons book "to Fly and Fight" and it had both his and Yeager's signatures inside the cover....pretty cool

now if I can find a copy of Bluenosers and Contrails for under $200 I'd be a happy camper

danjama
03-17-2009, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by slipBall:
Is it google that plan's to put every book ever written on the web?...I feel a bad case of eye strain coming on http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sony made a device to store thousands of "virtual books" but it hasnt taken off yet, almost certainly because it just isnt the same as sitting there with a book and cuppa

Cant remember what the damn thing was called, but i didnt like the sound of it 1 bit

DKoor
03-17-2009, 05:06 PM
Would be cool if they invent some kind of interactive electronic paper, so you can store a lot of books in it and the text would appear when you want, so you can easily read, and carry only one (or very few) paper with you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . Plus it could look "realistic" .
Can happen... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

But it'll be only a substitute for a real thing, as nothing can replace books http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .

Dustysquareback
03-18-2009, 03:23 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle

http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/p...J64W8:m1KUZNR4TVZSMM (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m2S5YCKCJJ64W8:m1KUZNR4TVZSMM)

R_Target
03-18-2009, 10:24 AM
Older books have value if they're first-person narratives. With most everything else, newer books benefit from greater access to information and more diligent research.

Choctaw111
03-18-2009, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
I never read anything in a book I could not find on the www.

And the web keeps getting bigger with more resources. Just look at how much the web has grown in the last couple years.
I must say though, that there are some things I have in books that I cannot find on the web. Very specific things pertaining to WW2 and WW1 aircraft.

crucislancer
03-18-2009, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by ytareh:
As a tiny example Clostermann (in his excellent The Big Show) speaks of regular encounters in his book with "TA152"s when modern sources would suggest they were a very rare plane in operational service...

I'll admit that "The Big Show" isn't fresh in my mind, but I don't recall him mentioning the Ta-152 all that much. He tends to run into Doras quite a bit, though.

I understand what you are saying, though. It seems that some of the older books lack in important info. While this is true in some cases, sometimes the older works can help get a feel for how things were preceived at the time, and in the case of pilot memoirs you learn what it felt like, as much as that's possible for the reader, to be in that situation, day in and day out.

Also, pilot memoirs should always be taken with the thought that it might not be the most accurate book on the subject. Combat doesn't do good things for the memory, and in some cases all they have to go on is their memory, or a log book or after action reports based on their memory.

Clostermann used his log book to write "The Big Show", but I think even he admited to having difficulties remembering certain things, sometimes after combat. Compare Boyington's "Baa Baa Black Sheep" with Bruce Gamble's superlative "The Black Sheep", and you wonder just how f'd up Boyington was from drinking, or if he was just a liar, or both.

Still, if you want to know what air combat was like, that's the place to go.

I think the internet is great for a start, but hunting down a book on the subject, sometimes several books on the same subject, is better in the long run. The two should work together, the internet as the doorway to the vast amount of books available on the subject.

R_Target
03-18-2009, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I must say though, that there are some things I have in books that I cannot find on the web. Very specific things pertaining to WW2 and WW1 aircraft.

Be sure. I have piles of books that cannot be found online. That's why I had to buy them.

berg417448
03-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:

I'll admit that "The Big Show" isn't fresh in my mind, but I don't recall him mentioning the Ta-152 all that much. He tends to run into Doras quite a bit, though.



I think there may be revised versions of his book which corrected some errors. Perhaps someone knows for sure.

My copy is fairly old and he refers to fighting Ta-152s on July 2, 1944 near Caen. I think it is clear he's made an small error here since they didn't see combat until 1945 and he's likely confused it with a Dora. I can't really fault him...when I think back to some things that occurred to me I often can't remember a lot of details.

Tab_Flettner
03-18-2009, 03:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I must say though, that there are some things I have in books that I cannot find on the web. Very specific things pertaining to WW2 and WW1 aircraft.



Be sure. I have piles of books that cannot be found online. That's why I had to buy them.



+1 on that!

danjama
03-18-2009, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:

I'll admit that "The Big Show" isn't fresh in my mind, but I don't recall him mentioning the Ta-152 all that much. He tends to run into Doras quite a bit, though.



I think there may be revised versions of his book which corrected some errors. Perhaps someone knows for sure.

My copy is fairly old and he refers to fighting Ta-152s on July 2, 1944 near Caen. I think it is clear he's made an small error here since they didn't see combat until 1945 and he's likely confused it with a Dora. I can't really fault him...when I think back to some things that occurred to me I often can't remember a lot of details. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also, does it really matter whether it was a TA or a Dora?? The fact is the man flew against these german visions of superiority http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

There are official records to determine exactly what they were! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I really enjoy his book and may dig it out to see exactly when he refers to fighting Ta152's....

Also since we're on books, has anyone read "Alert In The West" by Willi Heilmann? I really enjoyed it.

killersquad1960
03-20-2009, 03:59 PM
i have to disagree I found many web sites with history of pearl harbor for example
you can find it of course if your lazy you wont find it