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View Full Version : The term "Hashshashin" and its place in the game



Alpha_13
12-22-2007, 01:33 PM
Hello there. I am sorry if this has been mentioned previously, but I couldnt find anything. Either way, here it goes...

As some of you know, Steven Barnes, the writer behind "Assassin's Creed ( Book One ): The Invisible Imam", stated in late October that the all deal had been cancelled, despite the fact that it was already finished and ready to go. More info about said subject below:

http://darkush.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-even-care.html

Apparently, not only the book got chopped off but the game as well. Has anyone noticed that Talal's speech to Altair was changed as well, since the E3 2007 presentation...? Some of his lines plain vanished, like the term "hashshashin" and the fact he did not believe in God and stuff.

I dunno if it is relevant or not, but makes me wonder what else was cut before the game was released.

Either way, it was unwarranted IMHO. The term "fictitional" is supposed to stand for something. Share your thoughts please.

avsrule247
12-22-2007, 05:40 PM
Talal's speech was not the only thing that was cut. I could make a list of at least 20 things. Just watch the E3 06 demo and you will see the major things that were cut.

Nazgul2000
12-22-2007, 06:07 PM
like what??

Alpha_13
12-22-2007, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by avsrule247:
Talal's speech was not the only thing that was cut. I could make a list of at least 20 things. Just watch the E3 06 demo and you will see the major things that were cut.

In case you failed to notice, I am refering to the dialogue, not gameplay implementations ( such as the crossbow, walking on horse inside major cities, etc ) or scrapped scenery ( broken bridge, hanged people, etc ).

Zeon636
12-23-2007, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Alpha_13:
Hello there. I am sorry if this has been mentioned previously, but I couldnt find anything. Either way, here it goes...

As some of you know, Steven Barnes, the writer behind "Assassin's Creed ( Book One ): The Invisible Imam", stated in late October that the all deal had been cancelled, despite the fact that it was already finished and ready to go. More info about said subject below:

http://darkush.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-even-care.html

Apparently, not only the book got chopped off but the game as well. Has anyone noticed that Talal's speech to Altair was changed as well, since the E3 2007 presentation...? Some of his lines plain vanished, like the term "hashshashin" and the fact he did not believe in God and stuff.

I dunno if it is relevant or not, but makes me wonder what else was cut before the game was released.

Either way, it was unwarranted IMHO. The term "fictitional" is supposed to stand for something. Share your thoughts please.

I noticed that too, about halfway through the game. The Hashshashin were a real guild, so I thought using the real name added a layer of depth to game in that it made you feel like you were PART of something.

The word "Assassin" has such generic conotation today, that it makes Al Mualim's Order seem like they were just some random group of contract killers, instead of the ORIGINAL de facto order of hitmen.

So when Desmond is revealed to be an assassin at the beginning of the game, I wondered: what makes an assassin an Assassin? It would have been cooler if the doctor had refered to you as a Hashashin, because it really adds to the feeling of two age-old groups: Templars v. Hashashin.

DreamerM
12-24-2007, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by Alpha_13:

Either way, it was unwarranted IMHO. The term "fictitional" is supposed to stand for something. Share your thoughts please.

My thoughts are that any changes made to placate an ancient clan of killers are changes made for the best reason imaginable.

No Ubisoft producers were assassinated in the making of this game...

avsrule247
12-24-2007, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by Alpha_13:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avsrule247:
Talal's speech was not the only thing that was cut. I could make a list of at least 20 things. Just watch the E3 06 demo and you will see the major things that were cut.

In case you failed to notice, I am refering to the dialogue, not gameplay implementations ( such as the crossbow, walking on horse inside major cities, etc ) or scrapped scenery ( broken bridge, hanged people, etc ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And in case YOU failed to notice, I was also adding to the discussion because a thread talking about a piece of dialog is pretty pointless.

Zeon636
12-24-2007, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by avsrule247:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alpha_13:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avsrule247:
Talal's speech was not the only thing that was cut. I could make a list of at least 20 things. Just watch the E3 06 demo and you will see the major things that were cut.

In case you failed to notice, I am refering to the dialogue, not gameplay implementations ( such as the crossbow, walking on horse inside major cities, etc ) or scrapped scenery ( broken bridge, hanged people, etc ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And in case YOU failed to notice, I was also adding to the discussion because a thread talking about a piece of dialog is pretty pointless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. Read my post above.

Subtitled
12-24-2007, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Zeon636:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alpha_13:
Hello there. I am sorry if this has been mentioned previously, but I couldnt find anything. Either way, here it goes...

As some of you know, Steven Barnes, the writer behind "Assassin's Creed ( Book One ): The Invisible Imam", stated in late October that the all deal had been cancelled, despite the fact that it was already finished and ready to go. More info about said subject below:

http://darkush.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-even-care.html

Apparently, not only the book got chopped off but the game as well. Has anyone noticed that Talal's speech to Altair was changed as well, since the E3 2007 presentation...? Some of his lines plain vanished, like the term "hashshashin" and the fact he did not believe in God and stuff.

I dunno if it is relevant or not, but makes me wonder what else was cut before the game was released.

Either way, it was unwarranted IMHO. The term "fictitional" is supposed to stand for something. Share your thoughts please.

I noticed that too, about halfway through the game. The Hashshashin were a real guild, so I thought using the real name added a layer of depth to game in that it made you feel like you were PART of something.

The word "Assassin" has such generic conotation today, that it makes Al Mualim's Order seem like they were just some random group of contract killers, instead of the ORIGINAL de facto order of hitmen.

So when Desmond is revealed to be an assassin at the beginning of the game, I wondered: what makes an assassin an Assassin? It would have been cooler if the doctor had refered to you as a Hashashin, because it really adds to the feeling of two age-old groups: Templars v. Hashashin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that being their chosen name for the sect is debatable. From what my dad has told me (and he's from Jordan/Palestine) they didn't call themselves Hashashin, that's what others referred to them as, to put an air of negativity over them (hashashin means hashish user, which is a drug; and drugs were considered forbidden in mainstream Islam).

I forget what they called themselves, but it basically translated to "the new way," or "the new doctrine."

So, it makes more sense that no one in the guild would call themselves Hashashin. And the doctor, well, he really could've said either, but seeing as how the word evolved into "assassin" with the modern meaning, it would also make sense that he would just say assassin.

moqqy
12-24-2007, 04:26 PM
They called themselves the Nizari. Nizari Ismailis.

Nazgul2000
12-24-2007, 07:35 PM
u know at the asssassins creed trailer, where he kills the guy about to execute ppl. is that rly anywhare in the game??

Alpha_13
12-25-2007, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by avsrule247:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alpha_13:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avsrule247:
Talal's speech was not the only thing that was cut. I could make a list of at least 20 things. Just watch the E3 06 demo and you will see the major things that were cut.

In case you failed to notice, I am refering to the dialogue, not gameplay implementations ( such as the crossbow, walking on horse inside major cities, etc ) or scrapped scenery ( broken bridge, hanged people, etc ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And in case YOU failed to notice, I was also adding to the discussion because a thread talking about a piece of dialog is pretty pointless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fortunately enough, not everyone feels the same. End of off-topic. TKS Subtitled.


Originally posted by Nazgul2000:
u know at the asssassins creed trailer, where he kills the guy about to execute ppl. is that rly anywhare in the game??


Originally posted by DreamerM:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alpha_13:

Either way, it was unwarranted IMHO. The term "fictitional" is supposed to stand for something. Share your thoughts please.

My thoughts are that any changes made to placate an ancient clan of killers are changes made for the best reason imaginable.

No Ubisoft producers were assassinated in the making of this game... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fail to imagine one to be honest, especially having in mind the whole cancelled books affair.