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View Full Version : One extremely Important Feature FB is missing



XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:34 AM
Fuselage overstressing, will it ever be brought to fb, one it will stop the bat turners and external view yank your stick in all directions avoiders. Also thats what the fuselage support cables are for and they are put on the 3d models.

http://www.ww2fighters.net/images/p47/fireballDAM.jpg


Its very important and should be added to fb to add a more realistic feel, and an option to turn it off for those who cant handle it.

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter



Message Edited on 06/26/0305:58AM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:34 AM
Fuselage overstressing, will it ever be brought to fb, one it will stop the bat turners and external view yank your stick in all directions avoiders. Also thats what the fuselage support cables are for and they are put on the 3d models.

http://www.ww2fighters.net/images/p47/fireballDAM.jpg


Its very important and should be added to fb to add a more realistic feel, and an option to turn it off for those who cant handle it.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter



Message Edited on 06/26/0305:58AM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:11 AM
Im in with my vote!!

Also would love to see total loss of stick when overexceeding compressibility.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:14 AM
i'm too stupid for this kind of thing, but if it's more realistic i want it.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 07:51 AM
RGR That!

I would like to see crappy riveted La5 wings come off at high speed or Yak wings to fold if they 20mm hits at high stress loads. It might simulate some of the poor manufacturing techniques!

For example the P-39 (IIRC) was known for overstressing, if you pulled out of steep high speed dives too quickly.

And in my G-6 - Oh my wooden tail! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:48 AM
I vote for this feature!

++ 88.IAP_Manuc ++

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 09:17 AM
Good idea! However, there must be an element of overstressing already since your plane breaks apart in a steep dive. If a P39 exceeds 700 there is a large chance rudders, and even wings get teared off. So it can't be that far away. Maybe its impossible to overstress the planes in turns. Maybe any plane works nicely beyon 5+ G where we pilots faint and loose control.

I would like to have a G-meter (vertical and horizontal axis) as well. Real pilots use their body. I don't even need a belt on my office chair when flying. So I have a hard time knowing exactly how close to the limits i fly.

Petter

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 02:55 PM
Overstressing is modelled very little in FB , you can notice in some extreme situations but not to a degree I thought it would be modelled in FB.

I thought finally people could easily be divided to people who can fly and newbies who yank their stick like there is no tomorrow.

If overstressing the fuselage works only in extreme speeds (i think VVS planes withstand high speed too well) and in case of damage it isnt that useful.

As it is you cannot really rely on it in case of escape diving.

Nice feature it would have been, mayby in next sim.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 02:58 PM
... if not a G-meter or other warning, some rivet popping or creaking sounds would be great ... vibration, as in stall buffeting, that sort of thing.

falcon

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:12 PM
It would be cool if you damaged someone's wing, and they tried to turn too hard, then it would break off.

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XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:08 PM
That is my dream /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
RayBanJockey wrote:
- It would be cool if you damaged someone's wing, and
- they tried to turn too hard, then it would break
- off.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:21 PM
yea and have the ability to sabotage their planes!!!! like have ur pilot going all acrros the fields to an enemy basem and be like "hey whats up dude good hunting" and when no one is looking at u u go to some ones plane and cut some cables off!!!!

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:35 PM
gets my vote

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:47 PM
yes overstress, that's not a simple feature, it's something that is missing!

I would also like some effect (e.g. gunsight shacking) that shows the strength a virtual pilot is using when pulling the stick


quiet_man

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:49 PM
OMG

Aztec you are the worse troll I have ever witnessed..

I mean there is nothing you agree on that would better this sim. Unbelievable..

Structural fatigue played a big role in air combat you know , then I again after your comments I dont have high hopes on you.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:30 PM
Got my vote!

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 12:47 AM
.

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:16 AM
oh man...this game would totally make a huge leap in realism
if that was properly modeled.

it woulb be more of an adventure to fly

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:36 AM
But couldnt Yaks with foot diameter holes in the middle of their wing pull enough G's to black out in real life? I thought that was a feature of deltawood. Interesting concept you speak of.

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Message Edited on 06/26/0307:38PM by lbhskier37

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:58 AM
Lets think about this. Most planes are rated to easily support load factors of 10G+, with a huge safety margin to boot. Barring any manufacturing defects you could expect your average fighter plane to keep it together up till high double digit load factors.

Even with full trim and full stick force, you can hardly do 7-8Gs in FB. If you don't believe this, fly the P-47 see how high you can get the Gs to go.

Its my understanding that sturctural failure in real life is usually caused by a combination of high speed and high loads (ie. dive pullout), or as a result of manufacturing defect (ie. defective materials, poor labour).

It is unrealistic to expect any of the flybles in FB to disintigrate at the relatively low load factors that the aircraft experience, even in so called "bat turns". That is, unless you want to model random failures or manufacturing defects.

It would be nice if it could be implimented for damaged planes, but you can understand how difficult that would be to impliment in a realistic and historically correct manner.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 02:17 AM
Sabatoge planes,cow strafing....whats next Aztek-Eagle/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:33 AM
Id support this Idea all the way

"Fuselage overstressing"

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:37 AM
for it!

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:53 AM
In real live WWII combat pilots worried more often to overstress their own a/c instead of beeing shot down by a enemy!
During combat the a/c is put through a lot of stress that a sane pilot would not dare to perform in piece time simply because he is not so eager at wrigling his plane in impossible turns to get a shot opertunity at the enemy or maybe even more so in order to avoid offering a shot opertunity!

If rightly modeled the Uberplane in FB will become Unterplanes, because the lightly build Polikarpovs for instance should simply fall apart during the manuevres they perform with the current flight model!

Lets keep this sim 'the best' by giving it new dimensions of realism!

I hope that sounds of the airframe beeing overstressed will be featured in order to give pilots a chance of dealing with it realisticly, that would help aswell if the landing gear would make noise before it breaks off when overstressed !

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:59 AM
I would love to see this feature if it was implemented realistically, even if that meant random structural failures/production defects. To be more practical it would probably be better to implement it as far as damaged planes go or when performing extreme maneuvers. Either way I would love it, even if it meant my beautiful Tempest will occasionally lose it's tail!

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:39 AM
StG77_Fennec wrote:
- Lets think about this. Most planes are rated to
- easily support load factors of 10G+, with a huge
- safety margin to boot. Barring any manufacturing
- defects you could expect your average fighter plane
- to keep it together up till high double digit load
- factors.
-
- Even with full trim and full stick force, you can
- hardly do 7-8Gs in FB. If you don't believe this,
- fly the P-47 see how high you can get the Gs to go.
-
-
-
- Its my understanding that sturctural failure in real
- life is usually caused by a combination of high
- speed and high loads (ie. dive pullout), or as a
- result of manufacturing defect (ie. defective
- materials, poor labour).
-
- It is unrealistic to expect any of the flybles in FB
- to disintigrate at the relatively low load factors
- that the aircraft experience, even in so called "bat
- turns". That is, unless you want to model random
- failures or manufacturing defects.
-
- It would be nice if it could be implimented for
- damaged planes, but you can understand how difficult
- that would be to impliment in a realistic and
- historically correct manner.


Not true from what I've read. It was not hard to lose wings pulling out of power dives. VVS planes had a lot of problems with delamination (at times) in normal flight. Those wooden wonders could not survive much battle damage. In the sim you can pound them and they will still pull 6+ G loads that would definitely cost them a wing. I've read of many airframes of various nationalities being overstressed in combat or even simulated combat without taking fire. After combat pilots treated their airframes gently, lest they find that some damaged structural part was ready to let go.

Think of it another way. In the sim, your plane's wings will fold in normal flight eventually if the damage is sufficient. That's as light of a load as you can get. Surely you can see that less damage will cause them to fail somewhere short of max turning load...and much less than design load.

It's not super difficult to implement. It doesn't have to be made to high fidelity. Even modeling of a single failure load increment after some percent damage to the wings would be an improvement over what we have. Red Baron 3D had it (perhaps in multiple levels.) Once your spars took some hits, you had to cut back on your turn rate, or you would lose a whole wing. And there were some planes that would lose a wing in excessively tight turns (you heard a warning "creak", then a "snap" if you didn't back off immediately.) BoB's Spitfires will shed wing tips coming out of a dive.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:20 AM
get my vote !

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:03 PM
.

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:07 PM
Lol you guys are so excited over this,it will not be implemented in FB/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:59 PM
Thats cause the vvs would pay the highest penalty.One of the reasons I think yhe Yak9u superceded the Yak3 in real life.



Message Edited on 06/29/0312:03PM by WalterMitty

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:21 PM
you paranoid !

i fly VVS and i ask this feature,i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one flying "red" in this thread...

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:59 PM
Great idea.



"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 07:20 PM
how about overstressing with bombloads too?? i saw this thing on the history channel and the p47 pilots said what they worried most about pulling out of a dive after bombing was pulling up too fast and ripping their wings off due to the heavy bombs.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 09:22 PM
MOH_TRACKER wrote:
- how about overstressing with bombloads too?? i saw
- this thing on the history channel and the p47 pilots
- said what they worried most about pulling out of a
- dive after bombing was pulling up too fast and
- ripping their wings off due to the heavy bombs.

Uhhh...wouldn't the bombs no longer be on the wings after bombing?...not that bombload stressing wouldn't be a good idea.

It would be great if the bombloads were damage modeled while on aircraft. Presently, scoring a massive number of hits on bombs won't cause an explosion...unless you score it as bombs are released.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 11:28 PM
You wouldn't believe how many times I lost the lower wing on the newport from that.

RedHarvest wrote:
-
- StG77_Fennec wrote:
- Red Baron 3D had it (perhaps in
- multiple levels.) Once your spars took some hits,
- you had to cut back on your turn rate, or you would
- lose a whole wing. And there were some planes that
- would lose a wing in excessively tight turns (you
- heard a warning "creak", then a "snap" if you didn't
- back off immediately.) BoB's Spitfires will shed
- wing tips coming out of a dive.
-
-
-
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 01:09 AM
Cragger wrote:
- You wouldn't believe how many times I lost the lower
- wing on the newport from that.
-
- RedHarvest wrote:
--
-- StG77_Fennec wrote:
-- Red Baron 3D had it (perhaps in
-- multiple levels.) Once your spars took some hits,
-- you had to cut back on your turn rate, or you would
-- lose a whole wing. And there were some planes that
-- would lose a wing in excessively tight turns (you
-- heard a warning "creak", then a "snap" if you didn't
-- back off immediately.) BoB's Spitfires will shed
-- wing tips coming out of a dive.


Oh yes I would! I lost many a wing on the "Bebe" from that. It was quite sensitive.

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 04:29 AM
I agree.b

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XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 06:25 PM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 03:36 PM
I wonder why this wasn't included with the new DM

quiet_man

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:38 PM
Aye I vote for it as well and also for the warning creaking of overstressed parts about to fall off

by the way in terms of sound we could use more of these, planes don´t creak only when about to fall apart, they creak in heavy turbulence and even during "safe" maneuvers

proper sounds add to realism and immersion quite a lot

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:20 PM
Absolutely missing,
i really wonder why, much else is done with so much love for detail, so many factors put into the model, but not really this one which is so basic...
II/JG54_Zent

And btw: Aztek Eagle is SUPERTROLL !

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:47 PM
a BUMP for structural overstressing !


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XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 07:45 PM
Although I completely support this feature, I don't believe it would be included in the game because of the manufacturing defects owing to the Russian aircraft of the time period. This would most likely agitate alot of Russians to be chasing a fw190 in their yak, and when the fw190 decides to dive, wing panels start coming off of the yak's wings, or the wings fall off when the Russian attempts to recover from the dive too quickly.

Also--
Whats the deal with late war Bf-109 yellow cockpit glass?

Didn't a Russian ace (Pokryshkin I believe) complain about this in his La-5, that he could hardly see out the side glass because of the "yellowing" on the glass?

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 11:57 PM
bump

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:18 AM
i'm for it too, this is an important feature missing in FB

wooden Yaks were known for losing wings in long dives, that won't happen in FB, this is unrealistic