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Hristo_
03-09-2005, 01:19 AM
Could be a plecebo, but when I take Mk108 I can feel the plane become more sluggish compared to 4 MG151/20s.

As if it also adds some armor along with MK108s, as the difference between two cannons + ammo is negligible, especially in a 4.5 ton plane.

faustnik
03-09-2005, 01:53 AM
A9...sluggish? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Speed loss for the Mk108 conversion was 3-4 mph (source: Nowarra).

Hristo_
03-09-2005, 02:14 AM
In another WW2 online sim, loading MK108s turned the plane into a Sturmbock, alogn with added armor. Probably isn't the case here, but still wondering.

Hetzer_II
03-09-2005, 02:32 AM
I ´have no evidence for this, but i also have this feeling.
Imho with the mk108 it begins to snapspin a bit earlier and is a bit worser to handle.

But thats not only the case with the A9 and mk108, i feel the same difference between the normal a4-a5-a6 with 4 20mm weapons and its reduced counterparts with only 2 mg151...

Thats the reason why i often choose the less armed versions of the 190....

tigertalon
03-09-2005, 03:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hetzer_II:
But thats not only the case with the A9 and mk108, i feel the same difference between the normal a4-a5-a6 with 4 20mm weapons and its reduced counterparts with only 2 mg151...

Thats the reason why i often choose the less armed versions of the 190.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, I always thought that decrease of weight because of lacking outer cannons was offset by adding bomb-rack... because you cannot have Fw without outer cannons AND without bombrack...

BTW, Hristo, nice new sig. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hetzer_II
03-09-2005, 04:08 AM
Im quiet sure that Oleg said that the drag factor of the bomb-rack is not simulated currently... I´m not sure, but i would say this is the case when the rack is installed without a bomb...
An a6 with bomb-rack after dropping the bomb is slower than an a6 that started with the reduces armermant and the bomb-rack.... So i guess the drag is only modeled if you chosed to carry a bomb.

But i cannot make any trials now.. maybe tomorrow.

Greets

p1ngu666
03-09-2005, 07:33 AM
190A9 is surprisingly resistant to 50cals head on, ask fish and megile http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

A9 is extremely tough, to my defensive fire when we was messing around last night, just didnt take damage like any other plane

and yes i was hitting alot, fish said it was hard to aim cos plane was shaking so much from hits http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedNeckerson
03-09-2005, 08:07 AM
No discernable difference for me.

The MK108 was pretty compact for a 30mm gun, and it carried fewer shells than an outboard MG151 would.

Diablo310th
03-09-2005, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hetzer_II:
Im quiet sure that Oleg said that the drag factor of the bomb-rack is not simulated currently... I´m not sure, but i would say this is the case when the rack is installed without a bomb...
An a6 with bomb-rack after dropping the bomb is slower than an a6 that started with the reduces armermant and the bomb-rack.... So i guess the drag is only modeled if you chosed to carry a bomb.

But i cannot make any trials now.. maybe tomorrow.

Greets <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's modeled in teh Jug. I would be interested if it wasn't on the FW. A D10 outrolls a D27 easily.

faustnik
03-09-2005, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
190A9 is surprisingly resistant to 50cals head on, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the A9 has excellent frontal armor. The cowl ring armor thickness was increased to 10mm in the A9. The BMW801 is really tough too. For some reason, which I can't understand, it is much tougher than the R-2800???

********************
OT:

Diablo,

Do you have shots of the D-27 (or similar Jug) without the big wing racks? A jug with the maneuverability of the D-10 and the power of the D-27 would be great!

We have a scripted DF with ground targets that we run on Forgotten Server that is just Jugs (all models) vs. Fw190A6s & A8s. It's our version of the man show and it kicks a$$!

faustnik
03-09-2005, 10:03 AM
CWOS Fw190 Forum (http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=35)

We opened up our Fw190 forum, please check out all the data we have there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
03-09-2005, 04:29 PM
I can't say I notice any real difference... but I do fly 100% of the time with MK-108 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

horseback
03-09-2005, 05:20 PM
Sometimes the amount of extra weight doesn't matter as much as where the extra weight is...

If my ex had put that extra 30 lbs somewhere other than her backside, I might have stuck around longer. But her performance definitely suffered...

cheers

horseback (sexist pig)

New_York_Flyer
03-09-2005, 06:32 PM
The Anton with the Dual Mk108s is a real monster. It can obliterate anything in the sky, which is what makes it such a challenge to shoot down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

She's an awesome plane, which takes skill to use, which is why I respect the pilots who fly it.

Regards
Moses

VW-IceFire
03-09-2005, 06:37 PM
Actually I'm pretty sure Oleg told me, during the P-47 roll rate fiasco that many of you will not remember, that he had taken out the calculations of the bomb racks. Evening the scores with the FW190 or something.

I could be VERY mistaken and stuff may have changed since then but Oleg's argument was that the P-47s roll rate declined steadily between D-10 and D-27 and that by D-30 it was not rolling nearly as well as it had been. On the other hand, Oleg also said that its not a fighter (or somesuch) which is either a bad translation or based on the VVS report of the P-47 which regarded it as poorly armed (by their standards) and not agile enough to be a VVS fighter (by their standards). Different strokes for different folks is the conclusion that I get from it.

But no, don't be quite so sure about bombrack modeling.

p1ngu666
03-09-2005, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
190A9 is surprisingly resistant to 50cals head on, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the A9 has excellent frontal armor. The cowl ring armor thickness was increased to 10mm in the A9. The BMW801 is really tough too. For some reason, which I can't understand, it is much tougher than the R-2800???

********************
OT:

Diablo,

Do you have shots of the D-27 (or similar Jug) without the big wing racks? A jug with the maneuverability of the D-10 and the power of the D-27 would be great!

We have a scripted DF with ground targets that we run on Forgotten Server that is just Jugs (all models) vs. Fw190A6s & A8s. It's our version of the man show and it kicks a$$! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

for sure, bmw keeps on going when no other will, me and leadspitter did some tests http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

all other engines conk out with a couple of bursts, bmw keeps on going...

ill haveto upload track and stuff sometime http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Daiichidoku
03-10-2005, 08:09 AM
part of the reason the BMW is a timex may be from the armored oil cooler ring and armored cooling fan? just a thought

yes, the Jug is tuff in the fuselage for sure...but the R-2800 seems to be a glass jaw, and instantly quits far too often, even with the slightest BB hits, meanwhile IMHO the same engine in hellcats and corsairs keep on chuggin away....heck, merlins seem to hold up better than the Jugs R 2800...to say nothing of russian engines http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

while im at it, the Jug loses control surfaces and/or control cables more often than I think it should....but then, im totally biased inthis regards, heheh....but it is funny how much ammo she will absorb in the fuselage, yet slingt tail or wing hits knock off ailerons, rudder etc....probably no more than any other type I imagine

odd tho, how often one gets PK'd in a Jug from 6 oclock, given that the headrest armor is SO oversized compared to RL

but when one can get PK'd in a He 111 (or any other medium or heavy bomber) from 6 oclock, suppose this isnt bad

the D 22 still doesnt have the paddle prop that was started in D 21s

the D 27 still doesnt have the dorsal fin ext or "spine spline" that was started from D 25 onwards

not that it matters, doesnt seem to be any difference in lateral stability between D10/D22 and D27, but would be nice to see anyhow

wonder why the D30s were given compressability recovery flaps? never have any compress in Jug in FB, regardless of speed or althttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



sorry fo rthe thread hijack

Ive only recently started to fly Antons, and only use Mk108s...quite a diff, seein genemy explode in front of me, instead of having to pick and pick and pcik with .50s hehehe

will try 20mms and reduced guns soon

yea...190s and 47s....real mens planes, not for nancy-boys in spits n 109s

Daiichidoku
03-10-2005, 08:16 AM
hmmmm real men like jugs n 190s....both radial engined...(the D9 looks like a radial)

nancy-boys always take spits n 109s..inline engines

radials, especially the cowl in a Jug, look....well...female....

inlines...well...that "nose" pointing so far out....seem...phallic



hmmmmmmmm

Cippacometa
03-10-2005, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
hmmmm real men like jugs n 190s....both radial engined...(the D9 looks like a radial)

nancy-boys always take spits n 109s..inline engines

radials, especially the cowl in a Jug, look....well...female....

inlines...well...that "nose" pointing so far out....seem...phallic



hmmmmmmmm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, what about those maniacs taking those DOUBLE pahllic P-38s?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Or the A-20 and the B-25 with that double... what?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

faustnik
03-10-2005, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
part of the reason the BMW is a timex may be from the armored oil cooler ring and armored cooling fan? just a thought

yes, the Jug is tuff in the fuselage for sure...but the R-2800 seems to be a glass jaw, and instantly quits far too often, even with the slightest BB hits, meanwhile IMHO the same engine in hellcats and corsairs keep on chuggin away....heck, merlins seem to hold up better than the Jugs R 2800...to say nothing of _russian_ engines http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did some testing on different HMGs (M2, Mg131, UBS) and was shocked at how easily the R-2800 in the F4U flames up from a 6 oclock hit. I used only twin gun setups in the P-39Q, Bg109G6 and Yak 3 to test. There was little difference between the F4U and a Spitfire. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif The 190 had good resistance, like a radial should. Good but, not too good.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Cobravs190.jpg

MEGILE
03-10-2005, 04:35 PM
FW-190A9 + MK-108 is new best

Airmail109
03-10-2005, 04:39 PM
Note to self......after last night i decided to "keep the hell away from Pingu in his B25"! The fire he laid down from the rear gunner was amazingly accurate........even from 0.89 i had my engine shot to bits! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

p1ngu666
03-10-2005, 06:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aimail101:
Note to self......after last night i decided to "keep the hell away from Pingu in his B25"! The fire he laid down from the rear gunner was amazingly accurate........even from 0.89 i had my engine shot to bits! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

did some tests with leadspitter, and most engines go with a few hits, the bmw really was chugging along fine. notice in your screeny that bmw seems tobe still spinning?

test had leadspitter cruise upto my b25 that i had level stabilsed, and i opened fire around .20ish on the engine, im not sure if i managed to kill a bmw actully http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

btw i know about ring and fan, but its massivly tougher...

p1ngu666
03-10-2005, 07:10 PM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//bugtest3.zip

track from offwhine
guess range is 10metres or so, and onwhine guns are what 50% or more? less effective...