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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 01:12 PM
Woohooo!
This bad boy will rule in Forgotten Battles.
<img src=http://www.americanairpowermuseum.com/images2/P-47%20e.jpg>

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 01:12 PM
Woohooo!
This bad boy will rule in Forgotten Battles.
<img src=http://www.americanairpowermuseum.com/images2/P-47%20e.jpg>

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 01:17 PM
Hope ROF will be corrected for the guns, as Oleg mentioned. If not some would become very surprized by the actually inefficience of 0.5" in IL-2.

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 01:46 PM
.50 are currently well modeled. Synchronized ones have a poor ROF, but the ones mounted in the P-39Q-1's wings have a reallistic ROF.
8x.50 will certainely be trong, but remember they only fire bullets. I'm sure the 4x20mm of the Hurricane (and Fw190) will be stronger.

The Jug will be a true brute. Powerfull, rugged and well armed. But dont hope to rule low altitude furballs with it /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 01:53 PM
IMHO some guns are too undermodelled, but thatÔ┬┤s not the topic now.

To the P-47, as you can see at the HL, if the T-Bolt is flown as 95% of the virtual pilots prefer flying, youÔ┬┤re on the bad end sitting in the Jug, same with the upcoming Pony.

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 02:38 PM
It will be ok for the peaple who B&Z but dont try to turn with it,look at this site for proof


http://hjem.orangenet.dk/~wai44027/lv/

No1RAAF_Pourshot

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/p39p.jpg


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 02:38 PM
A BnZer pur-sang. I'll be probably harder to fly then even the FW190.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote
that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is
in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy
brother, Let me pull out the mote
out of thine eye; and, behold, a
beam [is] in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out
the beam out of thine own eye; and
then shalt thou see clearly to cast
out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 03:07 PM
I'm afraid that the whining will just kick up a notch when the P-47 comes out.

First, it will be an early war model with lower performance that the late war models that we've all read about.

Second, it will be operating outside of its high-altitude element. The Jug is not a low-and-slow turn fighter.

Third, as someone else mentioned, those .50's won't have the hitting power of the cannons. For those of us who have downed planes using the P-39's 4 x .30's, we know that the 6 x .50 will be a step up from those but not a heck of a lot more.

Fourth, JimmyGiro will teach us all how to use one! (Yeah, I'm still in shock over the pasting I saw him give folks in his 190A-4).

-- 777_Cossack_AVG (One day, you're terrorizing the Ukraine on horseback, the next day, flying a P-39!)

http://421chaos.8m.com/sig04clean.gif

"Do they have to turn on the air raid siren everytime I try to land?"

ZG77_Nagual
10-24-2002, 03:12 PM
We're getting a d22- performance will be good - better climb due to new props. Probably a bit like a fat 190.



http://207.237.116.20:8080/omess/files/p51b.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 03:46 PM
There will be two versions, early and late IIRC.

"Like a fat 190" seems a good comparition.

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 03:53 PM
The Yak-9U will kick the P-47s a$$ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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A nice site http://www.pimms-pages.co.uk/
Another good site http://www.newarkairmuseum.co.uk/

I'm cute so lets dance /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 04:20 PM
P-47 is voted as the heaviest single-engine prop fighter in WWII. I also read some infromation says: "fly a P-47 just like fly a 190,but maybe harder " It can BnZ only, if you are not good at 190 now, then forget about 47 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


= Rifle wins the war! =
= Gewehr gewinnt den Krieg! =

BlitzPig_Rock
10-24-2002, 04:22 PM
Cossack13 wrote:
-
- Fourth, JimmyGiro will teach us all how to use one!
- (Yeah, I'm still in shock over the pasting I saw him
- give folks in his 190A-4).
-

Yer! - Some of us have never fully recovered from being pasted by him /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I went 1v1 - best I could manage was hitting him with some debris from my exploding plane /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 11:35 PM
The jug, the acemaker, the lead sled. Just some of the names given to the 47.I don't know what the Russians made of it. Thier first requirement of a fighter was to be able to land and take off in a potato field. Not the Jugs strongpoint. Robert Johnson was able to get on the tails of the scoffing spit pilots by using the rate of roll.It needs to be used from up on high. Its reluctant to leave the ground and eager to get back on it. The rate of climb will be less than the Emil. The .05 has a flat tragectory compared to cannons. 8 of then will be a good shot gun. Better for poor shots like me.

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2002, 11:44 PM
Pah! rubbish, i think you'll find that the .50 cal machine gun fired a little more than your standard FMJ (full metal jacket), it could fire trace/incendiary rounds, armour piercing rounds and to top the lot it COULD fire explosive rounds, thats what made it so effective, it was'nt simply punching small bullet holes, they were exploding and armour piercing small bullets, and i say small in terms of comparing it to your bigger 20mm cannon say, because theres no way you'd say it was small if an explosive round hit your as*, more like your as* would'nt be there any more, for that matter now would your legs. lol. Go check it out on the web you'll find i'm right

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 12:09 AM
0.5 cal are better as 13mm germans mg,i think 8 are not bad

this plane is at sealevel not fast and has many poor maneuver as a8 and bad accelerate,by b&z is not allow to make one mistake,then you dead

g6/as can you make mistake and has good chance to survival



Message Edited on 10/25/0202:23AM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 12:18 AM
the other thing aboout the 'Jug' was that it was so strong that at altitude you could put it into a dive and dive so fast that it is rumoured that you could almost break the sound barrier, due to its immense strength and weight pulling it down.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 12:23 AM
The .05 has a flat
- tragectory compared to cannons. 8 of then will be a
- good shot gun. Better for poor shots like me.
-
-


If i rememeber correctly the early Hurricanes had 8 x .303 calibre guns (more like 7.6mm I think) and the reason initially given was just that a "shotgun" approach, however in combat the convergence was actually set quite close so all 8 guns would hit in a fairly tight pattern

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 12:47 AM
The P-47 will most likely be a poor low-altitude dogfighter.

It should rule the roost, however, at 20,000 feet and above.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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SkyChimp@msn.com

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 01:02 AM
I think the P-47 will mostly be used as a mudmover. Some people (myself included) will try to learn to DF with it but I seriously doubt it will be effective below 5,000m.

----------------------------------------
"All I want in life is to be happy"
That seems fine to me
How f*cked things can be
Everytime I get ahead
I wind up dead./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 01:05 AM
I consider the P-39 Q-1's .50 cals to be effective. The 2 firing through the prop are synced bad, and are only firing at half the RPM. So in reality the 3 (2 on the wing, and 2 1/2 on the knose) do a good job, 8 will do a damn fine job! Plus you have a nice lead spread. The P-47 will rule with proper B&Z tactics. Just dont try to turn her. She dont like that without crounds under her. But man, can she dive!!! Hows the zoom climb? Better then the FW 190 or not?

Gibbage

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 01:06 AM
The P-47 is gonna rule at high alt.! can't wait for those 50 cals!!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 02:45 AM
Thanks to the extra weight, zoom climb will certainely be good.
But sustained climb will not be impressive. Again, pretty like the 190 for earlier types, a little better for the later (something like a 109E-4 or F-2).

Much better at high altitude than at low level, but you all already know.

Weapons will do the job, no problem. Eight barrels will give a lot of lead, not need of sniper talent for this one !

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 02:54 AM
The P-47 was known for its excellent zoom climb.

One of the best things about the P-47 was its excellent turbosupercharger. The P-47 could climb to 30,000 feet without losing any horsepower due to the excellent unit.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 02:58 AM
To bad nobody fights high enough for the P-47 to be of any advantage.

Gibbage

SkyChimp wrote:
- The P-47 was known for its excellent zoom climb.
-
- One of the best things about the P-47 was its
- excellent turbosupercharger. The P-47 could climb
- to 30,000 feet without losing any horsepower due to
- the excellent unit.
-
- Regards,
-
- SkyChimp
-

"Openions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one, and they all stink."

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 03:01 AM
They'll have to fight high if they want me /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

Regards,

SkyChimp

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SkyChimp@msn.com

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 04:17 AM
ill get my me262 or 190 d9 and get up there.

http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.mudie/whinners.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 04:35 AM
Eight 50's will do just fine. You won't find me in any low furballs either. Come up and get me.

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 04:38 AM
LMAO!! Playing this game too long, you guys think even 20mm does little (that the impression I get). Firstly, .303 and .50 are VERY different. The amount of power each round excerts in joules in around 20,000 (joules) iirc. Theres a reason P-47 regularly blew apart enemy aircraft, regularly.

Robert Johnson did own a Spitfire with his P-47 (unsaid it was D model, but cross referencing date of new prop and date of each model used by 56th FG, I have strong opinion its D model). He owned a Spitfire Mk9B. Out accel, out run, out climb, out dive, out roll. He didn't outturn, but la-de-da.

The model with the P-47 specific propeller won't easily be outclimbed, will never be outdived, and will own every zoom climb. "Climb like a 109E4". LOL.

P-47's were among the first to discover the sound barrier in their power dives. I forgot who, but diving from 33,000 ft (IIRC) the flight testers "discovered" it when the controls completly locked up. Would have bailed out, but at last second regained enough control to pull it out of the dive.

Some have turnfought a P-47 on the deck and won against a 109.

P.S. Spitfire Mk9B was at 5,000 ft. OMG thats not possible! LOL.

Edit: For those who don't know, 5,000 ft is around 1.7 KM.


Message Edited on 10/25/0203:39AM by Elfunko

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 04:49 AM
yea i would say a few a8s might won turn fights against la7s on the deck 2 once or twice, it would handle sumthing like the a8 its heaver and has less firepower, i fly the a8 online 4 20mms its tuff but a suspect the p47 will have it tuffer.

http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.mudie/whinners.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 06:15 AM
So, you won't be coming down to stop the Stukas or help the Sturmoviks then?

Hey, it might be fine in DF, but that strategy won't work in Coop.

-- 777_Cossack_AVG (One day, you're terrorizing the Ukraine on horseback, the next day, flying a P-39!)

http://421chaos.8m.com/sig03clean.gif

"Do they have to turn on the air raid siren everytime I try to land?"

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 06:30 AM
Oh man, I'm going to be using the Jug so much, I love that plane.

Fire is within
Bleed for your beliefs
Come on and bleed with me

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 06:59 AM
Q. How do you take evasive maneuvers in a P-47?

A. Undo the shoulder straps and run around the cockpit!


Still I am looking forward to it.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2002, 10:06 AM
Elfunko wrote:

P-47's were among the first to discover the sound
- barrier in their power dives. I forgot who, but
- diving from 33,000 ft (IIRC) the flight testers
- "discovered" it when the controls completly locked
- up. Would have bailed out, but at last second
- regained enough control to pull it out of the dive.


Because the Spitfire had the highest limiting Mach No of any aircraft during the mid-war period,and airframes of the reconaissance versions were cleaner than those of fighters a Mark XI was chosen for the series of high speed diving trials conducted at Farnborough in the spring of 1944 to explore handling as aircraft dived at speeds close to the sound barrier.

No1RAAF_Pourshot

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/p39p.jpg


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 12:02 AM
re rate of climb a captured 109E tested by the British air ministry achieved the following rate of climb 3100 ft per min.The same ministry tested a 47 D rate of climb 1650 ft per min. It later tested the 47D21RE rate of climb 2750ft per min.

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 12:03 AM
I'm amazed at where this thread has gone.

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 12:14 AM
The challenge i now set, destroy all P-47's you see with I-16's, I-153's and P.11's!!!

http://www.boomspeed.com/kurttank/moviealien1.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 12:16 AM
Hmmmmmmm

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 12:17 AM
Its possible /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.boomspeed.com/kurttank/moviealien1.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 12:18 AM
Hmmmmm

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 12:20 AM
Oh stop with the hmmmmmm'ing, ill show you, ILL SHOW YOU ALL!

http://www.boomspeed.com/kurttank/moviealien1.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 01:02 AM
Will we be getting Ricocheting / deflecting tracer rounds in FB? It would look great tracer rounds deflecting off other planes and the ground. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 01:49 AM
pourshot wrote:
- Elfunko wrote:
-
- P-47's were among the first to discover the sound
-- barrier in their power dives. I forgot who, but
-- diving from 33,000 ft (IIRC) the flight testers
-- "discovered" it when the controls completly locked
-- up. Would have bailed out, but at last second
-- regained enough control to pull it out of the dive.
-


Would have bailed out?

At Mach 0.9 and no ejection mechanism???


I would prefer my chances in the aircraft to climbing out at that speed.

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 02:02 AM
Cossack13 wrote:
- So, you won't be coming down to stop the Stukas

Let those bolts of thunder come down to my stuka /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've got a few surprises for him /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2002, 04:21 AM
With a Jug:

All Your AAA Belongs To Me

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2002, 02:49 PM
Cossack13 wrote:
- So, you won't be coming down to stop the Stukas

StG77_Kondor wrote:
- Let those bolts of thunder come down to my stuka
- I've got a few surprises for him

Rgr that, Kondor. There's a reason that the high altitude fighters didn't shine on the Eastern Front: the battle wasn't taking place way up there!

-- 777_Cossack_AVG (One day, you're terrorizing the Ukraine on horseback, the next day, flying a P-39!)

http://421chaos.8m.com/sig03clean.gif

"Do they have to turn on the air raid siren everytime I try to land?"

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2002, 03:27 PM
Anyone know if they will carry rockets? They'd better!

"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell. You can bear this warning voice to generations yet to come. I look upon war with horror"-

General William Tecumseh Sherman
Speech to the Grand Army of the
Republic Convention,
August 11, 1880

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:53 AM
.50s need justice



Message Edited on 09/09/0307:55AM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:02 AM
the 8 50s are very under powered its a joke !!!!!!

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063032436.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:07 AM
I'm curious about this rate of climb. I do not own books on the P-47. The only books I have give the 47D a rate of climb that varies from an initial 2,800-3,200 fpm down low.

the spitfire mk IX is said to climb at 3,900 fpm to 4,100 fpm in books that I have.

what books list the 47D climbing better than the spit IX in sustained climbing, not a zoom climb, but a low speed sustained climb.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:19 AM
This thread is ancient,but still relevent,I guess....Anyway,I just finished a co-op mission in a D22 and sawed a 109 in two easily....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 02:16 PM
Just took a D27 up in QMB to test the 1.11patch. Went headon with Herr Graf on Ace setting ( a 50-50 proposition at best). While I've won these before I never did so in such a spectacular fashion. Hit with those 50s around .50 in range he exploded into about a million pieces, none of which was large enough to causew structural damage to the P-47 as it flew through the debris. Did cause some engine damage, but kept running. Impressive firepower to say the least.

Zayets
09-09-2003, 02:18 PM
cuteness wrote:
- The Yak-9U will kick the P-47s a$$

This is a true statement.Watch yer six!

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 02:59 PM
Cossack13 wrote:
- For those of
- us who have downed planes using the P-39's 4 x
- .30's, we know that the 6 x .50 will be a step up
- from those but not a heck of a lot more.

On the basis of equal striking velocities, an 8 gun battery of .50cal should have about 5.5 times the striking power of 4 x .30cal. And the .50's will retain their velocity better than the .30's due to their better ballistic performance.



Blutarski

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 03:23 PM
That is the problem w/ the 47 is it a high altitude fighter and most FB fights are done by Tree Huggers and water skiers. Down low a Jug is in serious dis-advantage. So most will not go up to you but try to draw you down to them.

Down low Jugs should work in groups. However as alot of pilots are lone wolves their 47 is working not at it's best ablility.

Even in "mud moving" the ideal is for it to have back up.

Best range for the 47 guns seems to be 200-300m. One of our guys Blew up a 190 from a quartering rear shot at this range w/ a 2 sec burst in a coop and thats w/ the newest patch patch


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p8300767ece778ba1571db9c8976a897a/fc12df55.jpg

Rule of combat: A Stupid idea that works isn't stupid

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 03:25 PM
If im at a higher alt and i see your little plane down below, ill dive down and blow it to little peaces.


If i miss, well thats ok, you wont cach me any way lol

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 03:31 PM
wow, this thread is like a year old, who dug it up?

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 03:36 PM
Offline the 109's seem to blow to pieces with a nice .50's from p47, online, it removes all their controls and get's em smoking.



S!
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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 05:36 PM
Hhhmmmm.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 06:11 PM
the p47 turning rate is somewhat inferior to any bf 109 early or late, the only good thing about that plane is the capacity to absorb punishment in combat..he he...a couple of nights ago I shot all my ammo to one of those, and nothing! #$@#$%%^& somebody shot me down on my way back....

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif

[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:37 PM
fnebump

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif

[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif