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Kuna15
10-31-2005, 07:04 PM
Which one of two types was better performing aircraft of those two in game that we have?

I really don't know much about these types, and since we will get J2M3 flyable at some point, I was curious... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

This site ahs some useful info about types
http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/kawanish/n1k2j.htm

Doug_Thompson
10-31-2005, 07:20 PM
Here's some stats from Francillion:

Shiden: 369 mph at 5,600 meters.
Climb to 6,000 meters -- 7 minutes, 22 seconds

Raiden (J2M3) 365 mph at 5,300 meters
Climb to 6,000 meters -- 6 minutes, 14 seconds

Kuna15
10-31-2005, 07:24 PM
Well it seems that we are getting slightly more powerful type flyable (judging by the info you posted and also some figures from Object Viewer within game).

Also I have noticed that two machine guns on N1K1-Ja model are displayed in game but that type had only 4x20mm cannons. That is a small bug http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, since only N1K1-J model had them.

Doug_Thompson
10-31-2005, 07:53 PM
Francillion again:

"In operation the N1K2-J revealed itself as a truly outstanding fighter capable of meeting on equal terms the best Allied fighter aircraft. Its qualities were demonstrated spectacularly by such pilots as Warrant Officer Kinsuke Muto of the 343rd Kokutai who, in February 1945, engaged single-handed 12 U.S. Navy Hellcats, destroying four American aircraft and forcing the others to break off combat. Against the high-flying B-29s the Shiden Kai was less successful as its climbing speed was inefficient and the power of its Homare 21 fell rapidly at high altitudes."

A section on the Raiden compares the two aircraft:

"Service pilots still complained about the [Raiden's] poor lateral and rear visibility, and performance ... once again fell below par when the heavier but better armed Raiden Model 21 was built. Accordingly in Jne 1944, the Navy decided to adopt the faster Kawanishi Shinden [emphasis added] as its main interceptor fighter and to continue Raiden production at a reduced pace until the Mitsubishi Reppu could be placed in production."

However, the Raiden was successfully modified with a supercharger. This gave a later varient much better performance against high-flying B-29s than the George ever achieved. This new version put the Raiden in great demand, according to the same source. However, we're not getting this version, the J2M5. We're getting the main production version, I belive, the J2M3. As for the service life of the "Jack":

"Although a small number of Raidens had been deployed to the Philippines, where they earned the code-name "Jack," they were mainly used in the defences of Japan. In this role it's good performance, powerful armament and adequate protection as the attributes of a successful fighter were at lasat recognized by their pilots who preferred it to all other Japanese operational fighters as a bomber destroyer."

Kuna15
11-01-2005, 01:02 AM
Many thanks for the info. It is what I have been asking for http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. It appears that in game Shiden fighter is designated N1K1-J, but should perhaps be N1K2-J as you mentioned because K2 is land based variant while K1 is floatplane. I guess I may be wrong about this but...


http://www.j-models.org/raiden1.jpg J2M3 "Jack"
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Pacific_Fighters/fb_j2m3_cockpit_01.gif WiP J2M3 "Raiden" cockpit

KIMURA
11-01-2005, 01:55 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kuna15:
Many thanks for the info. It is what I have been asking for http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. It appears that in game Shiden fighter is designated N1K1-J, but should perhaps be N1K2-J as you mentioned because K2 is land based variant while K1 is floatplane. I guess I may be wrong about this but...
QUOTE]

Not fully correct.

The "<span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>" defines the naval fighter "N1Kx" that started as a float a/c design and turned to a land-based version with undercarriage. Navy designs, like J2Mx and A6Mx, which started as carier/land-based a/c from beginning didn't receive that <span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>

<span class="ev_code_RED">N</span> still defines a fighter seaplane, so the <span class="ev_code_RED">J</span> had to been apply to clarify that the design turned to a land-based fighter.

N1K1 (float a/c)
N1K1-<span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>(land-based)
N1K2-<span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>(land-based)

nakamura_kenji
11-01-2005, 02:04 AM
me it

j2m3 better intercept plane
n1k2j better allround fighter

plane n1k1j have game differnt from version may get flyable n1k2j which lower wing much clean design nose around engine short land gear think differnt engine also think.

KIMURA
11-01-2005, 02:07 AM
The AI N1K1-J we got in PF had the NK9B Ha-45/11 (Homare 11), while the N1K2-J got the slightly "better" NK9H Ha-45/21(Homare 21).
NK9B/NK9H were navy codes for the Ha-45 Homare series.

One think I would like to know about the upcoming Shiden-Kai. Does SaGSoN modelling the N1K2-J or the N1K2-J Ko?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

nakamura_kenji
11-01-2005, 02:15 AM
look for shiden no like fly a6m late war it complete out perfrom other plane p_q

*dream kawasaki had fit ha-45 to ki-61 instead ha-112 bomber engine ^_^*

KIMURA
11-01-2005, 02:26 AM
The appyling of the Ha-112-II into the Ki-61 body was a big relief to the ground crews that known the Ha-40/140 as a sheer mightmare for maintenance(as well as the Homare was). The Ha-112 was reliable, had a good reputation while fitted in the Ki-45 and gave the Ki-61(now Ki-100) a good all around performance. Keep in mind reliability is the biggest factor of performance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DIRTY-MAC
11-01-2005, 02:31 AM
wasnt the Raiden faster down low

nakamura_kenji
11-01-2005, 02:36 AM
more raiden info

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/j2m.html

kimura i joke ki-100 with ha-45 1990hp instead ha-112 1500bhp is interest think ^_^ big thing alway fell ki-61/ki-100 lack power sad great plane look for best engine never get

Kuna15
11-01-2005, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by KIMURA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
Many thanks for the info. It is what I have been asking for http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. It appears that in game Shiden fighter is designated N1K1-J, but should perhaps be N1K2-J as you mentioned because K2 is land based variant while K1 is floatplane. I guess I may be wrong about this but...


Not fully correct.

The "<span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>" defines the naval fighter "N1Kx" that started as a float a/c design and turned to a land-based version with undercarriage. Navy designs, like J2Mx and A6Mx, which started as carier/land-based a/c from beginning didn't receive that <span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>

<span class="ev_code_RED">N</span> still defines a fighter seaplane, so the <span class="ev_code_RED">J</span> had to been apply to clarify that the design turned to a land-based fighter.

N1K1 (float a/c)
N1K1-<span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>(land-based)
N1K2-<span class="ev_code_RED">J</span>(land-based) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for clarifiyng that, I really didn't know that fact that they were designated with letter "J" on that criteria.

So the fighter that we have in game is in fact N1K1-J(a) and not N1K2-J (it is correctly named in game)?

nakamura_kenji
11-01-2005, 02:45 AM
yes n1k1j wing mid fusalage nose bit like ki-84/100 where n1k2 wing much low have clean design smooth nose and all gun in wing and no in wing gondala thing

n1k1j
http://aircraftresourcecenter.com/Fea1/601-700/Fea645_Shinden_Fuquay/01.jpg

n1k2j
http://www.ipmskalamazoo.org/Aircraft/48th/js-n1k2j-1.jpg

n1k2j may flyable get russia addon sasquon people make

KIMURA
11-01-2005, 02:51 AM
haven't the game handy now. But (IIRC) there are 2 Shiden as AI. The N1K1-J (pre serie) and the N1K1-Jko(version a). Both fitted with 20mm gondolas(correct me if I'm in error). There was a 3rd version of the Shiden, the N1K1-J Otsu(version b) with 4x20mm cannons fitted in the wings.

Kuna15
11-01-2005, 03:29 AM
You are right Kimura. Funny thing it appears that the only thing that is visually different between two types in game (N1K1-J and N1K1-Ja) is skin (slightly different paint scheme).

N1K1-Ja model have visually displayed two nose machine guns in spite of the fact that it did not have them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif. N1K1-J has them, so that is correctly displayed...

N1K1-Ja has more rounds per cannon - 100 (type 99-2 cannon) while N1K1-J has 60 rounds per one cannon (type 99-1 cannon). N1K1-J machine guns have 525 rounds per one gun (type 97 MG).

nakamura_kenji
11-01-2005, 03:37 AM
i find odd also both model still have hole in nose for mg

Type 99-I Japan 20 x 72RB (142 g) 490 rpm 555 m/s 23 kg A6M Zero license-built Oerlikon FF F

Type 99-II Japan 20 x 101RB (142 g) 490/750 rpm 750 m/s 36 kg A6M Zero development of Oerlikon FF L

i take the Type-99-II always over I version ^_^
4x Type-99-II N1k1ja/ N1k2J i all much here usn pilot cry ^_^

Doug_Thompson
11-01-2005, 07:43 AM
IIRC, the N1K1-J was the first land-plane version, which took the mid-wing floatplane design and put wheels on it, among other changes. It was a good plane but the long landing gear had failure problems.

The N1K2-J was a redesign where the biggest change was to lower the wing. This allowed shorter, stronger landing gear. Streamlining and such was improved, too. The better, more streamlined cowling, however, was dropped because the older model cowling was already under production and the need for the plane was desperate.

The next development was the two prototypes had the machine guns mounted in the cowl. This happened because the Shinden's center of gravity was off. They lengthened the plane by 6 inches, which created enough room for MG ammo, so they stuck a couple of guns in the cowling for good measure.