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View Full Version : Were the 332 FG "Red Tails" an insperation?



JSG72
02-09-2008, 05:26 PM
Any thoughts?

They certainly seemed to do "The Job" without loss of their charges. But without scoring too highly themselves.

Success or failure?

Bremspropeller
02-09-2008, 05:35 PM
Success.

JSG72
02-09-2008, 05:42 PM
Agree!

Funny? How we like to quote from "The Aces".

CUJO_1970
02-09-2008, 06:20 PM
How could they possibly be regarded as anything but a success?

JSG72
02-09-2008, 07:03 PM
Any thoughts. From accross "The Pond"?

DKoor
02-09-2008, 07:35 PM
Bombers were real winners in war.

Fighters were there to assist in such operations mostly.

So... I'd say 332 did awesome job.
The best there can be.

Bremspropeller
02-09-2008, 07:36 PM
Bombers are real winners in war.

Fighters are there to assist mostly.

Depends...

biggs222
02-09-2008, 07:48 PM
well I have to agree. the bombers were the ones that crippled enemy production, not the fighters. but the escorting fighters allowed for the successful bomber sorties.

fighters are more glamorous, so thats why they get the glory.

JSG72
02-09-2008, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
well I have to agree. the bombers were the ones that crippled enemy production, not the fighters. but the escorting fighters allowed for the successful bomber sorties.

fighters are more glamorous, so thats why they get the glory.

Barring the 332 FG apparantly.

They flew fighters and protected their charges.

Was their something wrong with their ethic?

biggs222
02-09-2008, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by JSG72:
Was their something wrong with their ethic?

No Im just agreeing with DKoor, in that bombers were the war winners IMO. believe me, Im a fighter person myself, so dont think I have a bias. im definately not taking anything away from the likes of the 332.

Bearcat99
02-09-2008, 09:32 PM
They were for me. I am sure I am not alone...

Loco-S
02-09-2008, 09:39 PM
Red tails kicked tailfeathers , in combat and at home, those guys had CLASS.

Avont29
02-09-2008, 09:59 PM
Heck Yea they were!!

Not a single bomber lost.

I didn't even know much of the tuskegee airmen before i played this game. And thats a shame cause im black, but they dont even teach this in school.

They might teach it in a black history class though.

berg417448
02-09-2008, 10:06 PM
This report of the records stirred things up a while back:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-04-01-tuskegee-airmen_N.htm

No matter what, it doesn't take away the things that they overcame and achieved.

Bearcat99
02-09-2008, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Avont29:
Heck Yea they were!!

Not a single bomber lost.

I didn't even know much of the tuskegee airmen before i played this game. And thats a shame cause im black, but they dont even teach this in school.

They might teach it in a black history class though.

They did loose a few.... that was recently discovered by the historian of the chapter that I belong to. Still though.... their record was impressive.. especially when considering the "other war" that they had to fight.

Feathered_IV
02-09-2008, 10:25 PM
An inspiration, not insperation.

Patriot_Act
02-09-2008, 10:53 PM
Most telling is that, as potrayed in the movie, white bomber units requested the 332 as preferred escort.
It may be lost today as to how impressive that really was. In the 1940's it was unheard of for a white man
to lower himself to make such a request of a black man. Reason is they were excellent escort. They did noe
cut out and attack for glory. I would have to guess that survival took president over racism.

A salute to Lee Archer, the only known Black ace of WWII.

P.A.

RegRag1977
02-10-2008, 04:14 AM
Originally posted by Loco-S:
Red tails kicked tailfeathers , in combat and at home, those guys had CLASS.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

John_Pimlott
02-10-2008, 05:44 AM
SUCCESS!

http://www.webdesign-guru.co.uk/icon/wp-content/uploads/approved.gif

To the B-17 pilots and crews, they were the "Little buddies" of choice. Enough said?
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hoenire
02-10-2008, 05:52 AM
Any attribution of inspiration should go the people that actually let the squadron come into existence in the first place. Kudos should be given to those higher up the chain of command who had the balls to let the squadron go and fight.

They were just another USAAF squadron so they shared in the overall success of the USAAF. So far as combat is concerned they don't appear to have stood out in any particular way.

Hoenire
02-10-2008, 06:15 AM
And I expect that they were, and are, an inpiration to many black Americans suffering under any kind of extreme or insidious prejudice.

CUJO_1970
02-10-2008, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by Hoenire:
Any attribution of inspiration should go the people that actually let the squadron come into existence in the first place. Kudos should be given to those higher up the chain of command who had the balls to let the squadron go and fight.

They were just another USAAF squadron so they shared in the overall success of the USAAF. So far as combat is concerned they don't appear to have stood out in any particular way.


I have to disagree that they were "just another USAAF squadron".

They were black men.

That is a very big difference in the 1940's when you consider the lack of civil rights and racial barriers they had to overcome simply because of the color of their skin. Some even in the USAAF didn't want them to succeed!

But I will agree with you that there were also many whites that went against what was popular at the time to help the Red Tails along their way to success.

CUJO_1970
02-10-2008, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by Hoenire:
And I expect that they were, and are, an inpiration to many black Americans suffering under any kind of extreme or insidious prejudice.

Not just an inspiration to blacks, but to whites, reds, yellows, etc.

BrotherVoodoo
02-10-2008, 08:03 AM
They were for me. I am sure I am not alone...


Your not alone, The Red Tails were the best squadron ever IMO. Any WW2 history buff has to respect the accomplishments 332nd.

Monterey13
02-10-2008, 10:57 AM
If you are interested in what kind of **** they had to go through, read here.
http://www.indianamilitary.org/ATTERBURYAAF/Tuskegee%20...n/TuskeggeAirmen.htm (http://www.indianamilitary.org/ATTERBURYAAF/Tuskegee%20Airmen/TuskeggeAirmen.htm)

I wish the 477th could have had their chance.



Salute!

nealn
02-10-2008, 11:10 AM
SUCCESS of course. They completed their mission objective and quite well at that. Had the objective been to shoot down enemy fighters they would have been sent only on free range missions over enemy territory. They were assigned to bomber escort, to get the bombers through, and they excelled.

Neal

stalkervision
02-10-2008, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by BrotherVoodoo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They were for me. I am sure I am not alone...


Your not alone, The Red Tails were the best squadron ever IMO. Any WW2 history buff has to respect the accomplishments 332nd. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You have apparently never heard of these guys then..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56th_Fighter_Group

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ad/56fg-p47.jpg

Credited by the Air Force Historical Research Agency with the destruction of 665.5 aircraft in air-to-air combat, the 56th Fighter Group had more air-to-air kills than any other fighter group in the Eighth Air Force, was the top-scoring P-47 group during World War II, and recorded the second-highest number of air-to-air kills of any USAAF fighter group.[1] The 56th also claimed 311 fighters destroyed on the ground.[2]

> These guys fought agains't the cream of the Western Luftwaffe btw! <



or on the German side the JG-52! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JG_52


Lets just not get rediculosly carried away about the 332. That would be a disservice to the fine men who flew in it...

Bearcat99
02-10-2008, 01:04 PM
You have apparently never heard of these guys then..

Of course he has heard of them.. don't be silly!! Who has not heard of the Wolfpack? His opinion is his opinion... and of course he doesn't need me to defend him... but it just kills me that you feel you need to correct him or insinuate that there is some kind of ignorance or denigration of other units on his part simply by holding his opinion... which is a fallacy.

In my opinion this is one reason (http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/lynching.htm)(more on the subject (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAlynching.htm)) why their service was so special. To hold their service as special is in no way at all to denigrate the service of other white units in any other branch of the military or civilian life for that matter..... but consider that for a black man in America at that time... the above was the stuff that was common fare for black men in America particularly in the south. In the north where their necks were not being stretched their heads were being bashed in and they were being shot by police in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, St. Louis and I could go on.

This was the world that these men existed in. Yet.. when their country, that allowed this dehumanizing to go on with little or no redress needed their service, even though it did not want them in the capacity that they were willing and more than capable of serving, and had to fight tooth and nail every step of the way to even exercise the RIGHT to defend their country... they came. From the farms, cities, colleges and towns all across the nation.. they came. While everyone else's service was welcomed and they were allowed to have the freedom to at least try... these men had to push and push.... AND PUSH. In may ways they were like the X-Men... gifted individuals fighting often to the death to defend a world that hated and feared them... because they were different. The same can be said for the 442nd (http://library.thinkquest.org/CR0210341/442nd/splash442nd.htm) and the Navajo (http://bingaman.senate.gov/features/codetalkers/) & Comanche (http://www.turtletrack.org/Issues00/Co06032000/CO_06032000_Codetalk.htm) code talkers.

This in my opinion its the thing that separates their service from others.. not rendering the other service any less valiant or valuable or praise worthy, but placing their service in a place that is different. That is a fact. If it sticks in your craw then so be it.. I didn't make it that way... but that's how it was... and I believe that this nation is the better for their service.

airdale1960
02-10-2008, 05:12 PM
They did what an escort was meant to do, protect the bombers. One of, if not, the best record in the USAF History, in spite of new evidence. I saw them at Balad AB, they are still insiring, shocking how old they are getting!

Patriot_Act
02-10-2008, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by airdale1960:
They did what an escort was meant to do, protect the bombers. One of, if not, the best record in the USAF History, in spite of new evidence. I saw them at Balad AB, they are still insiring, shocking how old they are getting!

The situation they were in required ridgid adhearance to the escort role.
Chasing the Luftwaffe for kills would have resulted in stories of how the N... cut and ran at the first sight of the enemy.
The result was that they became the best and preferred excort group in USAF history.
Obviously there were some very talented airmen there who would have racked up impressive kill scores.

P.A.

ploughman
02-10-2008, 06:26 PM
Good for them.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
02-10-2008, 06:56 PM
Some people would have loved to have seen them fail. That they succeeded is a lasting tribute to all of them. Truly inspirational.

Tator_Totts
02-10-2008, 07:04 PM
I remember talking to them at a reunion.

I ask them what motivated them to stay with the bombers and not chased after fighters for personnel glory. He responded when we look at the faces in those bombers, we saw their grandchildren. Wow. Class act.

stalkervision
02-10-2008, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
[QUOTE]You have apparently never heard of these guys then..

Bearcat..
Of course he has heard of them.. don't be silly!! Who has not heard of the Wolfpack? His opinion is his opinion... and of course he doesn't need me to defend him

I am not so sure of that given his statement. Don't you believe it is more then a little over the top even if it is his opinion? Talk about going into Hyperbolic Warpdrive! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif



Bearcat/
but it just kills me that you feel you need to correct him or insinuate that there is some kind of ignorance or denigration of other units on his part simply by holding his opinion... which is a fallacy.

Not to denegrate him whatsoever but just to point out that his statement leaves a whole lot of excellent units with much better war records totally left out in the cold including many outstanding german units. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I say give credit where credit is do. The 332 was a very fine unit that had to endure racism besides enemy action. Let their fine achievements speak for themselves.

I am very impressed that you would mention that there is a common falacy that says the 332 never ever lost a bomber to enemy action and corrected it.

To admit such a thing shows you value the truth over everything else as I do. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Pss.. Racism isn't only a "black thing" unfortunately many fine army units from other colors were discriminated agains't to. What about the Japanese internment camps?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d6/Japanrelocationwwii.jpg/325px-Japanrelocationwwii.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

How about these guys..?

http://www.goforbroke.org/


Unfortunately racism knows no bounds... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Bearcat99
02-10-2008, 07:44 PM
You forget I know Rock.... He knows about the 56th.. and his opinion of the 332nd like mine in no way at all diminishes the contributions of any other units. For me.. when it comes to the pilots... I have a great deal of respect for them all... from Rall to Davis... and all points in between.

stalkervision
02-10-2008, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
You forget I know Rock.... He knows about the 56th.. and his opinion of the 332nd like mine in no way at all diminishes the contributions of any other units. For me.. when it comes to the pilots... I have a great deal of respect for them all... from Rall to Davis... and all points in between.


Same as me then. To me a fighter pilot is a fighter pilot no matter what the color he is and all deserve our respect. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Thanks for mentioning these guys btw..

Bearcat
In may ways they were like the X-Men... gifted individuals fighting often to the death to defend a world that hated and feared them... because they were different. The same can be said for the 442nd and the Navajo & Comanche code talkers.

I read your post much to quick and didn't notice the ending.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Bearcat99
02-10-2008, 08:47 PM
LOL... well.. bear in mind that when Stan Lee created the X-Men it was his way of addressing the whole race issue at the time... and this was 25 years later (from WWII)..

BrotherVoodoo
02-11-2008, 09:25 AM
Just got back to this thread, thanks for the cover BC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I realize other squads had more kills and the example of the Wolfpack is a good one. Why I think the 332nd is the best squad in my opinion not only has to do with their record of being the best and most requested bomber escorts around but more importantly the racial war that this squad had to overcome. The dedication and teamwork they demostrated I highly respect. The Tuskegee Airmen were and are an inspiration to many.

waffen-79
02-11-2008, 11:43 AM
TOTAL SUCCESS

EXITO TOTAL

no question about that

Jaguar_99th
02-14-2008, 06:39 PM
There is no doubt in my mind they are!

Noun

The act or power of exercising an elevating or stimulating influence upon the intellect or emotions; the result of such influence which quickens or stimulates; as, the inspiration of occasion, of art, etc.

The 332nd today (IRAQ)

Wing supports mission at 'critical time'


by 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing
Public Affairs

2/6/2007 - BALAD AIR BASE, Iraq (AFNEWS) -- The 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing is the most forward-deployed Air Force wing in Iraq. The wing has pioneered modern warfare tactics using advanced weapons systems such as the F-16 Fighting Falcon, A-10 II Thunderbolt and the MQ-1 Predator unmanned aerial vehicle for close-air support and traditional and non-traditional intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions.

Jaguar_99th
02-14-2008, 06:53 PM
Just for FUN (http://www.af.mil/specials/332AEW/gallery/content.html)