PDA

View Full Version : skidding the plane



ali19891989
03-29-2008, 01:42 PM
How much was the rudder used to skid the aeroplane in evasive maneuvers. Was it just adding a little opposite rudder in turns etc? I'm sorry if this isn't very clear but I hope someone can get the general idea of what i'm on about.

Wild.Bill.Kelso
03-29-2008, 02:22 PM
Yes, I think it was using opposite rudder in turns. How much it was used I don't know. I use it in a pinch to throw off their aim. Sometimes it works.

There was a great History Channel Dogfights episode of a SBD taking on a bunch of Zeros. He did tight turns and used that skid manuever to avoid them and he lived to tell about it...

Klemm.co
03-29-2008, 02:46 PM
You can use rudder to speed up rolls. But if not used carfully, this can lead to a spin very quickly. And of course this is not a truly evasive manouver, more an offensive one. But it can be used in evasive action too.

general_kalle
03-29-2008, 02:49 PM
try applying full rudder (do it gently) and at the same time using ailron to keep it level if you succeed at flying full rudder without the plane flipping around you flight will be very wierd and difficult to calculate deflektion on.
practice it so you will be able to do it quickly and its a good evasive maneuver. eventually practice it with you favorite plane as all planes act differently.

Airmail109
03-29-2008, 02:52 PM
Rudders the hardest axis to correct for when deflection shooting, use it plenty.

Also learning to keep your aircraft in a level turn when banking is a good idea as well, helps your shooting.

FoolTrottel
03-29-2008, 04:22 PM
try applying full rudder (do it gently) and at the same time using ailron to keep it level if you succeed at flying full rudder without the plane flipping around you flight will be very wierd and difficult to calculate deflektion on.
That's true...
But, one needs to be aware of one big disadvantage when using the sideslip: loss of speed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I do use it to evade enemy fire. Swaying left and right...

But, it's also a great way to loose excess speed on landing approach...it really slows you down!

Airmail109
03-29-2008, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">try applying full rudder (do it gently) and at the same time using ailron to keep it level if you succeed at flying full rudder without the plane flipping around you flight will be very wierd and difficult to calculate deflektion on.
That's true...
But, one needs to be aware of one big disadvantage when using the sideslip: loss of speed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I do use it to evade enemy fire. Swaying left and right...

But, it's also a great way to loose excess speed on landing approach...it really slows you down! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Less than tight turns, which are about as effective as light/medium rudder application if an veteran is behind you

R_Target
03-29-2008, 06:40 PM
If you end up in a head-on, you can try skidding through the merge and make a deflection shot as the bandit goes by.

Airmail109
03-29-2008, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by R_Target:
If you end up in a head-on, you can try skidding through the merge and make a deflection shot as the bandit goes by.

+1

it's also great if you want to "cold" merge and throw off the guys aim. Generally if he opens fire in a dead straight head on he's silly enough to bank as hard as he can to get on your tail. You can then use your superior energy state to go into the vertical and come back down on him.

general_kalle
03-30-2008, 05:19 AM
as said Skidding makes you loose speed, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing.
for landing and for making the enemy overshoot skidding is a good thing.

another hint for slowing down is to apply full elevator trim up and then correkting it with you elevator controls. but be ready to trim it back otherwise you will stall sooner or later

a challenge is to both skid and trim the plane downwards+correkting it...at the same time.

funkster319
03-30-2008, 05:48 AM
I'll often use the skid to slow down for a quick combat landing .

The other use is when you have a bandit tight on your six. I put throttle to idle, dive and put a skid (Full rudder, oposite Aileron) - this will 90% of time cause the bandit to overshoot, as soon as you see him start to overtake , end the skid, throttle up and as he passes get on his six.

I've found this to be very effective, evasive and reversal tactic. The only problem is when the bandit is either to savy and spots it or when he's not close enough and gets some shots off into your six as you slow down.

But with a bit of practise it can get you out of scraps and reverse the situation.

K_Freddie
03-30-2008, 06:38 AM
In this movie (15MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Movies/DancingCloud.avi) I've used full elevator, full rudder and full aerolons to throw the Me109 out the way.
You can see the near stall condition via the wing/condensation trail angles.

When doing this type of thing it's all about how much and for how long.. the timescales are around 0.5 - 1 second, so it's very quick.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Yellow_Sub
03-30-2008, 07:16 AM
Interesting thread.

Is it just me or do the control surfaces never move in your video (elevator,aileron,rudder). Is it because of the format? Would be more educating otherwise.

JG14_Josf
03-30-2008, 07:23 AM
Was it just adding a little opposite rudder in turns etc?

ali19891989,

A slip and a skid are easily confused.

Many of the pilots who wrote about their experiences in WWII air combat comment on rudder use as a means of evasion. I can find an example of you want one.

LovroSL
03-30-2008, 07:46 AM
Skidding is very usefull in evasive- combine it with negative G turns (I love it when bandid mimics your wing position only to find out you slipped below his nose, when he tries to follow just reverse and catch the bugger in sissors).

The only problem with skidding is loss of speed and the fact that at low speeds you will "ride the stall" and every wrong move could be fatal.

PBNA-Boosher
03-30-2008, 08:21 AM
Don't forget that skids and slides can slow you down drastically, which makes them a possible fatal move for combat, but also highly useful if you're coming in a little too fast on landing.

buzzsaw1939
03-30-2008, 12:16 PM
Maybe I can help with those that don't understand the slip and skid.

emagine your driveing on a banked left turn on a highway with a little ice on it, if your tail goes to the right, your skidding, if it goes left your slipping, if your level, your skidding, if your decending, like for a landing, it's called a slip, like in forward slip, to loose altitude!

Hope this helps. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

funkster319
03-30-2008, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
In this movie (15MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Movies/DancingCloud.avi) I've used full elevator, full rudder and full aerolons to throw the Me109 out the way.
You can see the near stall condition via the wing/condensation trail angles.

When doing this type of thing it's all about how much and for how long.. the timescales are around 0.5 - 1 second, so it's very quick.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

In what combination freddie?

Full Left Rudder, Full Elevator up and Full Right Aileron?

M_Gunz
03-30-2008, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
Maybe I can help with those that don't understand the slip and skid.

emagine your driveing on a banked left turn on a highway with a little ice on it, if your tail goes to the right, your skidding, if it goes left your slipping, if your level, your skidding, if your decending, like for a landing, it's called a slip, like in forward slip, to loose altitude!

Hope this helps. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Then there's the 'other' slip condition:

Flying straight and level path with nose pointing off to the side and high at full power
and complaining that the FM must be wrong cause of being slow is also Slip but in that case
it is due to ignorance of half of what the rudder is for but hey it happens, just takes a
few posts to find the details out. Other big clue is "hey my guns don't shoot where I point
them, this game sucks!".

EDIT - Other really big clue is "hey what's wrong with this game, I can't turn without spin!".

Only reason I write this is because it's the punchline to maybe 100 threads since 4.01.

buzzsaw1939
03-31-2008, 02:43 AM
I've noticed!.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

M_Gunz
03-31-2008, 03:51 AM
Awareness is the first step along with good teachers like our pros here.
The climate on this board has also gotten to where it's cool to discuss without totally devolving.
I likes it!

buzzsaw1939
03-31-2008, 03:57 AM
Me too buddy!.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif