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SlowBurn68
04-21-2007, 02:44 PM
Just happened in Beaufort SC. Houses on Fire. More to come...

slipBall
04-21-2007, 02:51 PM
Bummer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

SlowBurn68
04-21-2007, 03:02 PM
Witness Scott Houston told CNN in a telephone interview that he saw six Blue Angels jets flying low behind a grove of trees at the end of an airshow in Beaufort, S.C., and only five emerged.

A cloud of smoke was seen rising from the area.

Stackhouse25th
04-21-2007, 03:04 PM
hope the pilot ejected

heywooood
04-21-2007, 03:10 PM
I hope no one was injured - preliminary report says a house or houses are on fire...

One of these crashes could end flight demonstration teams performing altogether..that would be a bad thing.

major_setback
04-21-2007, 03:24 PM
A SAAB Gripen (Griffin) crashed in Sweden on Friday, though I suppose that sort of thing is common with operational aircraft.
The pilot was unhurt, he ejected.

p-11.cAce
04-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Nothing confirmed yet regarding the condition of the pilot or anyone on the ground - hope everyone is ok http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

VF-17_Jolly
04-21-2007, 03:36 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://www.beaufortgazette.com/breaking_news/story/6477257p-5768379c.html

leitmotiv
04-21-2007, 04:37 PM
Eyewitnesses said one in a tight formation suddenly dropped behind, lost altitude, whacked into a tall pine tree, and the remains kept going through residences. Suspicion is, obviously, engine failure.

Bearcat99
04-21-2007, 04:38 PM
Report: Blue Angel Crash in S.C. Kills 1
By The Associated Press

2 hours ago
BEAUFORT, S.C. - A Navy F-18 Blue Angel plane crashed during an air show Saturday, according to televised reports. The county coroner's office said one person was killed.
Witnesses said the planes were flying in formation during the show at a Marine air base, and then one dropped down below the trees and apparently crashed.
"The next thing I seen was just a big black cloud of smoke," Gerald Popp, who lives nearby, told CNN.
At the Blue Angels command headquarters at Pensacola Naval Air Station the petty officer duty said he "had no comment at this time."
A woman who answered the phone at the county coroner's office said one person died in the crash. It was not immediately clear who it was.
More than 100,000 were expected to attend the air show, and the Blue Angels were the main attraction. The elite aerial-demonstration team, which is based at Pensacola Naval Air Station, recently celebrated its 60th anniversary.
Beaufort is about 35 miles northwest of Hilton Head.


~!S!~ Rest in peace.....

WarWolfe_1
04-21-2007, 05:00 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-21-2007, 05:01 PM
heywooood::
One of these crashes could end flight demonstration teams performing altogether..that would be a bad thing.
It might be a good thing if they eased the show envelope, making things safer at airshows and in practice. I never saw the point of the fancy and rather silly tricks they try to perform. Best airshow performance I saw was one of the last, possibly the last, public F-106 flying displays at an airshow in Mississippi. No silly little tricks, just flying around alone demonstrating stunning zoom climb and afterburner bang. The advertised "highlight" of the airshow was to be the ThunderBirds flying later, fancy tricks and all. I left the show after the -106's lone performance and talking to pilot and chief mech (two bodies -- one mind). There was no reason to stay for anything else.

leitmotiv
04-21-2007, 05:05 PM
I find it incomprehensible a maneuver was performed over a residential area---this was absolutely Verboten I thought---if it wasn't, it ought to be. If nobody on the ground died, it was an absolute miracle.

berg417448
04-21-2007, 05:17 PM
Looking at the Google Earth image of the roads mentioned as the crash location...the area is largely woodland.

Sergio_101
04-21-2007, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
heywooood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One of these crashes could end flight demonstration teams performing altogether..that would be a bad thing.
It might be a good thing if they eased the show envelope, making things safer at airshows and in practice. I never saw the point of the fancy and rather silly tricks they try to perform. Best airshow performance I saw was one of the last, possibly the last, public F-106 flying displays at an airshow in Mississippi. No silly little tricks, just flying around alone demonstrating stunning zoom climb and afterburner bang. The advertised "highlight" of the airshow was to be the ThunderBirds flying later, fancy tricks and all. I left the show after the -106's lone performance and talking to pilot and chief mech (two bodies -- one mind). There was no reason to stay for anything else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had the privilege to see a F-106 fly, only once.
An awesome flying machine.
Louder than a F-4 at full burner.

The pilot did not survive the crash today.
He rode it in. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Sergio

Bremspropeller
04-21-2007, 05:20 PM
Sad.

Dagnabit
04-21-2007, 05:32 PM
sad loss.

StellarRat
04-21-2007, 05:36 PM
This is very sad for me. I've seen the Blue Angels perform many times. These men are the top pilots in the Navy (actually in the world for that matter) and are dedicated and super skilled at what they do. Anyone that has seen "A YEAR IN THE LIFE" would know that they are great people all around.

leitmotiv: THEY DO NOT DO TRICKS over residential areas! However, they do maintain their close formation around the airfield where they are performing. I'm waiting for more details about what happened.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

As a side note: There is now a female Thunderbird. I'm sure there will be a female Angel in the not too distant future.

tigertalon
04-21-2007, 05:46 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Bearcat99
04-21-2007, 05:52 PM
People have been dieing in airshows since the barnstorming days... I doubt if this crash will stop them. I hope it doesnt.
Why Bessie Coleman (http://www.ask.com/fr?q=Bessie+Coleman&desturi=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firstflight.org%2Fshrine% 2Fbessie_colman.cfm&fm=i&ac=5&ftURI=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ask.com%2Ffr%3Fq%3DBessie%2 BColeman%26desturi%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.firstf light.org%252Fshrine%252Fbessie_colman.cfm%26image src%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.firstflight.org%252Fs hrine%252Fimages%252Fbessie_coleman.jpg%26thumbsrc %3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fsp.ask.com%252Fsa%252Fi%252F fp%252Fbessiecoleman.jpg%26fn%3Dbessie_coleman.jpg %26f%3D2%26fm%3Di%26ftbURI%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fww w.ask.com%252Fweb%253Fq%253DBessie%252BColeman) died at an airshow in Florida in 1921.
http://www.bessiecoleman.com/images/10bessie_pic_left.jpg

The folks who do this sort of thing know the risks..... and they chose to do it because they love what they do... otherwise they would be doing something far more lucrative... He died doing what he loved...
I have seen the Blue Angels.. in fact I am wearing the Blue Angels Hellcats to Hornets T-shirt ironically, that I picked up when I saw them last year at Andrews... The things they do are not "silly tricks" they are examples of superb flying skills and precision teamwork.

leitmotiv
04-21-2007, 06:18 PM
Read the news reports: pieces of the airplane scattered all over a residential area---the airplane was lost during a low altitude maneuver in a tight formation.

PBNA-Boosher
04-21-2007, 06:33 PM
This is a sad loss indeed. Do we know who it was in the crashed aircraft?

StellarRat
04-21-2007, 06:35 PM
I read the news. My guess is that you have not actually seen them flying. They have a formation that is maintained at all times. It's a close formation. They do everything as a group. They were probably making a circle to come back over the field and were crossing over the neighborhood when the accident happened. The only way they could have crashed over the residential area was if someone had a problem with the formation or some kind of mechanical problem. Some people might call flying in close formation a maneuver (or even making a simple turn), but other than flying close it's not anything like a real "trick" like loop or an Immelman. The actual "maneuvers" are done over the airfield away from the crowd. Anyway, we will have to wait for more details.

leitmotiv
04-21-2007, 07:06 PM
StellarRat, the Navy isn't going to give you a Navy Cross for whatever it is you are doing---the eyewitnesses said they were engaged in a low altitude maneuver, one aircraft fell behind, lost altitude, hit a tree, and distributed itself over residences.

http://apnews.myway.com/image/20070421/Blue_Angel_Crash...0421&docid=D8OLA5GO0 (http://apnews.myway.com/image/20070421/Blue_Angel_Crash.sff_ALBIN103_20070421181713.html? date=20070421&docid=D8OLA5GO0)

Divine-Wind
04-21-2007, 07:14 PM
Very sad news. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif We just saw them this past Sunday here in Texas. Hopefully no one else was seriously injured (Or worse).

heywooood
04-21-2007, 07:35 PM
the Blue Angels perform at Miramar every year and have been doing so since the 70's without a misshap...that area is densely populated with the exception of the property off either end of the main runways and a few miles south where the landfill (city dump) is located.

I have spoken to many of these pilots and they are dedicated and highly professional - I don't think that what they do is 'silly' but there is a relatively high risk involved in pushing these planes around the sky at close proximity to each other and also to the ground...

There is a rule they don't talk about much that has to do with power or airframe failure during these shows. They are to point the plane toward an undeveloped area if possible and not punch out unless they are sure the plane can't hit anything but dirt.
Otherwise they must stay and do whatever they can to minimize the damage as much as possible, meaning they must ride it in.

There is risk involved - but there is always risk. More people are killed in traffic than by any other cause but we go into it every day anyway...

I am sorry for the loss of this pilot - but I am happy for him and proud of him also.
He did his duty. He flew for his Country and did it so well that he got to fly a fantastic machine in one of the most elite demonstration teams on the planet. He Did Ok.

TC_Stele
04-21-2007, 07:44 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Sad news, indeed. The name of the pilot hasn't been released until family is contacted.

SlowBurn68
04-21-2007, 08:34 PM
It truely is a sad day - The men and women of the Blue Angles tradition make me proud to be an American.

WarWolfe_1
04-21-2007, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by heywooood:
the Blue Angels perform at Miramar every year and have been doing so since the 70's without a misshap...that area is densely populated with the exception of the property off either end of the main runways and a few miles south where the landfill (city dump) is located.

I have spoken to many of these pilots and they are dedicated and highly professional - I don't think that what they do is 'silly' but there is a relatively high risk involved in pushing these planes around the sky at close proximity to each other and also to the ground...

There is a rule they don't talk about much that has to do with power or airframe failure during these shows. They are to point the plane toward an undeveloped area if possible and not punch out unless they are sure the plane can't hit anything but dirt.
Otherwise they must stay and do whatever they can to minimize the damage as much as possible, meaning they must ride it in.

There is risk involved - but there is always risk. More people are killed in traffic than by any other cause but we go into it every day anyway...

I am sorry for the loss of this pilot - but I am happy for him and proud of him also.
He did his duty. He flew for his Country and did it so well that he got to fly a fantastic machine in one of the most elite demonstration teams on the planet. He Did Ok.

Thanx heywoood http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sergio_101
04-21-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by SlowBurn68:
It truely is a sad day - The men and women of the Blue Angles tradition make me proud to be an American.

I just read that there is aready speculation that
the pilot blacked out in a high G turn.
Blue Angel and Thunderbird pilots do NOT
wear G suits.

If I can find the link, I will post it.

Sorry but I lost it while surfing.

Sergio

Akronnick
04-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Sergio_101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlowBurn68:
It truely is a sad day - The men and women of the Blue Angles tradition make me proud to be an American.

I just read that there is aready speculation that
the pilot blacked out in a high G turn.
Blue Angel and Thunderbird pilots do NOT
wear G suits.

Sergio </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's not engange in speculation, let's wait and see what the actual cause was.

p-11.cAce
04-21-2007, 10:13 PM
Let's not engange in speculation, let's wait and see what the actual cause was.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Its one thing to debate Fm's and Shockwave vs. Maddox, but this is nothing to debate about here. God Bless the pilot and his family.

Dagnabit
04-22-2007, 12:16 AM
One witness account said that he seen the plane come down in a "grove of trees" and that the plane was "clipping them off as if they were nothing", and then parts of the plane and debris began hitting the trailers and houses.
Like heywooood, I have also heard that if those guys have a problem they are supposed to try to point the plane away from crowds and residential areas.

regards
Dag

StellarRat
04-22-2007, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
StellarRat, the Navy isn't going to give you a Navy Cross for whatever it is you are doing... I'm not trying to do anything. You, on the other hand, seem to be saying they were being negligent without knowing all the facts. Your quote was:

"I find it incomprehensible a maneuver was performed over a residential area---this was absolutely Verboten I thought---if it wasn't, it ought to be. If nobody on the ground died, it was an absolute miracle."

How else should I take this?

Anyway, I'm done with this. I just feel sorry for the family of the pilot.

JG52_Helgstrand
04-22-2007, 01:48 AM
Wow sad indeed. I was stationed at Pensacola back in the 90's, saw a lot of the Blue Angels.
Did security for them at an airshow in Sicily once too... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

woofiedog
04-22-2007, 05:28 AM
Very Sad! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Bearcat99
04-22-2007, 06:53 AM
Dammit to h@ll some of you guys just friggin kill me!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif No matter what it is you have to jump into a thread with negative BS and turn it into a frackkin debate.... every d@mn time!!!!! Geeze Louise man... a guy is dead and you guys have to keep coming up with this BS. Un frickkin real.... If you have nothing positive to say about the situation then please... do us all a favor and just move on man..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

leitmotiv
04-22-2007, 12:18 PM
As the Poles say in PIECE OF CAKE: "Is c--k up"---there is nothing positive you can say about a c--k up. There is nothing anybody needs to say except that it is a c--k up.

Warrington_Wolf
04-22-2007, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Sergio_101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlowBurn68:
It truely is a sad day - The men and women of the Blue Angles tradition make me proud to be an American.

I just read that there is aready speculation that
the pilot blacked out in a high G turn.
Blue Angel and Thunderbird pilots do NOT
wear G suits.

If I can find the link, I will post it.

Sorry but I lost it while surfing.

Sergio </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I find it very hard to believe that they do not wear G-suits. They fly high performance jet aircraft for crying out loud.

VF-17_Jolly
04-22-2007, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Warrington_Wolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sergio_101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlowBurn68:
It truely is a sad day - The men and women of the Blue Angles tradition make me proud to be an American.

I just read that there is aready speculation that
the pilot blacked out in a high G turn.
Blue Angel and Thunderbird pilots do NOT
wear G suits.

If I can find the link, I will post it.

Sorry but I lost it while surfing.

Sergio </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I find it very hard to believe that they do not wear G-suits. They fly high performance jet aircraft for crying out loud. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't believe it either but

Blue Angels Website (http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/index.htm)

Why don't the pilots wear G-suits?
G-suits are designed with air bladders (pockets) that inflate and deflate to keep a pilot's blood from pooling in the pilots' legs while executing sharp, unpredicted combat maneuvers. Unlike combat flying, the Blue Angels demonstration pilots know the maneuvers they will fly prior to execution, so each pilot knows when one will be pulling heavy gravitational forces. Anticipating the changes in gravitational forces allows the Blue Angels demonstration pilots to combat the G-forces with muscle contractions. In addition, the Boeing F/A-18's control stick is mounted between the pilot's legs. The Blue Angels have a spring tensioned with 35 pounds of pressure installed on the control stick that gives the pilot a "false feel." This allows the pilot minimal room for uncommanded movement. The pilots rest their right arms on their thighs for support and stability while flying. Therefore, inflating and deflating air bladders in a G-suit would interrupt this support and stability, causing uncommanded aircraft movement. In this case, G-suits would detrimentally impact flight safety.

Divine-Wind
04-22-2007, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Dammit to h@ll some of you guys just friggin kill me!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif No matter what it is you have to jump into a thread with negative BS and turn it into a frackkin debate.... every d@mn time!!!!! Geeze Louise man... a guy is dead and you guys have to keep coming up with this BS. Un frickkin real.... If you have nothing positive to say about the situation then please... do us all a favor and just move on man..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
QFE

If all you're going to do is argue and debate, just don't come at all.

Platypus_1.JaVA
04-22-2007, 03:29 PM
I saw the team during one of their very very few visits in Europe, Holland to be precise. They gave away a great show wich was faultless in every way. You see them climbing into the cockpit in front of the crowd and they do not appear to wear G-suits. I am very sad to hear about the crash. Judging by their performance in Holland, I believe they are not the guys that do silly things when flying. I think some mechanical failure happened.

My condoleances to his family and the Blue Angels team.!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Sergio_101
04-23-2007, 02:45 AM
I just watched a video on CNN, they cut it just
before impact.
But you can see #6 turn in behind the others
in a violent turn.
Yes, it looked like a 9G turn, extreme even
for those guys.
Then the plane saggs downward a bit and......

The film is good enough to get data for estimating
the G forces. This one will not be a mystery.

Sergio

rnzoli
04-23-2007, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by Sergio_101:
This one will not be a mystery.

They rarely remain mystery. Remember the Thunderbirds crash in 2003 at Idaho air show?

Here is a link where experts debate the final report. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-483.html

Come to think of it, I can't remember any accident investigation without debate. Which I consider a good thing - no stone can remain unturned, in order to prevent it from occurring again.

BillyTheKid_22
04-23-2007, 04:11 PM
http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/officers/06.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/BlueAngelsFA18.jpg



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

NAFP_supah
04-30-2007, 10:09 PM
http://supah.gotf.net/foto/120606-Blue_angels/angel6small.jpg

A picture I took last year of the Jet! Different guy flying it though.

BillyTheKid_22
04-30-2007, 11:46 PM
www.blueangels.navy.mil/index.htm (http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/index.htm)



http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/images/photos/wp_03.jpg



http://www.firstblueangel.com/galleries/08_Blue_Angels_Pictures_and_Posters/Blue%20Angels%20Aircraft%201946%20to%202004.jpg

Treetop64
05-01-2007, 04:16 AM
~S~!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

To those of you who quickly want to speculate and argue on how something like this can happen; instead of being the monday morning quaterback, go up there and do what these guys do for a living, then come back and see if you can make the same words...

ronison
05-01-2007, 05:18 AM
As to speculation and arguing there can only be one thing said.... SOMETHING WENT WRONG. Be it macanical, human error etc... doesnt matter.

Bottom line is someone died. That in itself should mean that you leave the speculation alone for the experts. The only thing that words from non experts can do here is hurt and cause undue feelings that are not needed.

Hornor the man in the machine and please let it be. I'm sure he did what he could do to minimize any damages to property or lives.

As for thoes that think they preform over popluated areas I can assure you this is not the case. First off there are strict FAA rules against this. Second in order to preform the shows in most cases they have to fly over poplated areas. They do not preform here they just travel over to reposition for the manervers over the airfield. Another thing the FAA prohibits is any show that goes at the crowd. I have been to many airshows in my life from the age of 5 to present I have gone to about two on avrage a year. I was in Canada when a Chinook helecoptor had its front and rear roter hit and spray the crowd with shrapenel, I had just been standing where most of the casulties occured. If it wasnt for me looking for my parents at the time I could have been one of them.

Anyway please just let the speculation be and wait for the official word. I mean what exactly can you add?

rnzoli
05-01-2007, 07:02 AM
go up there and do what these guys do for a living, then come back and see if you can make the same words...
Well, sorry to put it this way, but sometimes even they don't come back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Stop "heroifying" them - they have got a very challenging job to do for a living, but that also means they are always in the limelight, mostly when they do spectacular moves, and unfortunately also when they suffer an accident.


wait for the official word. I mean what exactly can you add?
Food for thought. Questions, that the "official word" should better clarify 100%...

Bearcat99
05-01-2007, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
~S~!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

To those of you who quickly want to speculate and argue on how something like this can happen; instead of being the monday morning quaterback, go up there and do what these guys do for a living, then come back and see if you can make the same words...

Half these guys couldn't even do it in this sim.

rnzoli
05-01-2007, 07:20 AM
And? What is that supposed to mean? STFU just because we are lowly gamers, or what?

These guys make a living from being in the spotlight. They enjoy every bit of the appreciation deservedly. But when things go wrong, enduring questions, speculations, queries and investiagations are ALSO part of the job they chose. I find this argument "do it and then come back and talk" misleading. I am sure they can't do MY job, just as much I can't do their job.

Stop pretending these guys are infallable or superhuman. That would only help sustaining the reasons why one of them fell.

ronison
05-01-2007, 02:32 PM
From Bearcat:
"Half these guys couldn't even do it in this sim."

From rnzoli:
"And? What is that supposed to mean? STFU just because we are lowly gamers, or what?"

You know your funny rnzoli. Alot of the posts on this forum is "How do I take off" or "What is energy management" etc.. Bearcat is right. I am fairly decent at the game as far as shooting down enemy aircraft. But when it comes to flying formation that is a whole new ball game. You may be able to do it but again like Bearcat said I bet half of us that play the game couldn't do it to the extent that some people can. You should just get over your anger and leave this thread alone. Your detracting from what it is about and just starting another senseless arguement.

Sory to your all and this thread for geting into it but please guys leave the arguenents and speculation out of this. Its bad enough it happened but to fight over things or put your oppinion as to what happened when you weren't even there is pointless.

And by the way rnzoli the "official word" will be what is released from the FAA... that will be what any reaction by the government or Navy will be founded on. Not speculation from a comunity of people that werent even at the sight.

LEXX_Luthor
05-01-2007, 08:26 PM
I have to agree with rnzoli on this one. This the personal risk these pilots take for playing silly games in the air with multi-million paper-dollar jets -- I am not impressed. After seeing one of the last airshow performances of the F-106, I walked away from the upcoming "Thunderbirds" F-16 performance. The lone solo F-106 impressed me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


heywooood::
I don't think that what they do is 'silly' but there is a relatively high risk involved in <span class="ev_code_yellow">pushing these planes around the sky at close proximity to each other</span> and also to the ground...
Your definition of Silly is impeccable. Thanks

The ultimate price paid for playing silly, nay, stupid close formation games in the air was the crash of the second and faster XB-70 that held more Mach 3 research potential than the first aircraft along with the death of two (2) highly experienced test pilots, just to toss in the mix another example of the silly Bravado of close formation flying when its not needed (see below for the need).

I think close formation flying with dogfight planes went out of style after the Battle of Britain, and even earlier in Spain as far as Luftwaffe was concerned. Now, tight formations of bombers or torpedo planes does impress me, as I am sure it impressed many fighter pilots attacking these formations. But the bombers didn't play silly games during close formation flying, as it would break the formation and ruin the combined defense.

Treetop64
05-01-2007, 09:46 PM
Heh. Well, the guy is certainly entitled to his opinion...

Pirschjaeger
05-01-2007, 10:41 PM
Nice thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Badsight-
05-01-2007, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Dagnabit:
One witness account said that he seen the plane come down in a "grove of trees" and that the plane was "clipping them off as if they were nothing" over 16 tons empty

nothing living is going to stop that fast

rnzoli
05-02-2007, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by ronison:
You should just get over your anger and leave this thread alone.
Anger? No way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I am just in a mild state of shock when speculation altogether is treated as a thoughtcrime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I guess what Treetop and Bearcat is trying to say with good intentions that we shouldn't jump into conclusions, because we don't have enough information. Fine. But even in that case, their reasoning is wrong: if it was caused by an engine or instrument failure, a maintenance engineer will know much more than the pilots who go up there and do it (although the engineer remains on the ground). It is also irrelevant whether we can do it in this sim or not - since G-forces are not modelled properly in this sim, with this level of technology available. So even if you can do it in the sim, it has no relevance.


or put your oppinion as to what happened when you weren't even there is pointless.

And by the way rnzoli the "official word" will be what is released from the FAA... that will be what any reaction by the government or Navy will be founded on. Not speculation from a comunity of people that werent even at the sight.
You might be surprised that civilian aviation accidents are debated and speculated a lot.
http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/

Very often the most probably cause is predicted much earlier than the official reports (which might take years in case of NTSB, but the Army/Navy is usually faster). And you don't have to be there to see the video clips or read the eyewitness accounts.

Given that the G-load and fatigue effects are also regularly discussed in these forums, the entire subject isn't so much "off topic" either. But there could be more appropriate places to follow up the details, e.g.,

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3250854

GR142Pipper
05-03-2007, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
heywooood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One of these crashes could end flight demonstration teams performing altogether..that would be a bad thing.
It might be a good thing if they eased the show envelope, making things safer at airshows and in practice. I never saw the point of the fancy and rather silly tricks they try to perform. Best airshow performance I saw was one of the last, possibly the last, public F-106 flying displays at an airshow in Mississippi. No silly little tricks, just flying around alone demonstrating stunning zoom climb and afterburner bang. The advertised "highlight" of the airshow was to be the ThunderBirds flying later, fancy tricks and all. I left the show after the -106's lone performance and talking to pilot and chief mech (two bodies -- one mind). There was no reason to stay for anything else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>"rather silly tricks"? Good grief are you ever one ignorant mofo. Have a nice day.

GR142-Pipper

GR142Pipper
05-03-2007, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
People have been dieing in airshows since the barnstorming days... I doubt if this crash will stop them. I hope it doesnt.
Why Bessie Coleman (http://www.ask.com/fr?q=Bessie+Coleman&desturi=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firstflight.org%2Fshrine% 2Fbessie_colman.cfm&fm=i&ac=5&ftURI=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ask.com%2Ffr%3Fq%3DBessie%2 BColeman%26desturi%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.firstf light.org%252Fshrine%252Fbessie_colman.cfm%26image src%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.firstflight.org%252Fs hrine%252Fimages%252Fbessie_coleman.jpg%26thumbsrc %3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fsp.ask.com%252Fsa%252Fi%252F fp%252Fbessiecoleman.jpg%26fn%3Dbessie_coleman.jpg %26f%3D2%26fm%3Di%26ftbURI%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fww w.ask.com%252Fweb%253Fq%253DBessie%252BColeman) died at an airshow in Florida in 1921.
http://www.bessiecoleman.com/images/10bessie_pic_left.jpg

The folks who do this sort of thing know the risks..... and they chose to do it because they love what they do... otherwise they would be doing something far more lucrative... He died doing what he loved...
I have seen the Blue Angels.. in fact I am wearing the Blue Angels Hellcats to Hornets T-shirt ironically, that I picked up when I saw them last year at Andrews... The things they do are not "silly tricks" they are examples of superb flying skills and precision teamwork. Indeed. This is very demanding flying and error tolerance is minimal. That they perform many, many times in an accident free manner is testament to their capability and professionalism.

GR142-Pipper

LEXX_Luthor
05-03-2007, 12:50 AM
Pippers::
"rather silly tricks"? Good grief are you ever one ignorant mofo. Have a nice day.
If you feel like talking about it here, we can talk.

NAFP_supah
05-03-2007, 09:38 AM
Anyway .... nice to see my pictures are better quality then the official US Navy ones. Perhaps I should send a letter of application! Too bad I get seasick reasonably fast http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Divine-Wind
05-03-2007, 02:09 PM
As Pirsch said...

Great thread guys. Good to see we're all honoring that pilot.