PDA

View Full Version : Why does FW-190 torch as well as a zero??



mortoma
02-17-2005, 11:05 PM
I started flying the P-40C as an easterm front Russian plane instead of in the Pacific and have been amazed by something. The P-40C has only two .30s and two .50s, so it's not all that well armed. But I noticed that every time I go up against the FW-190A4 that it's much easier to down than the 109s are!! I find that's it's easy to set them alight as if they were Japanese tinder-box fighters. Not a whine, just wondering if anyone else had noticed this tendency?? Maybe some of you guys could try this comparison in QMB? I mean the 190 was known to take a lot of damage and had a tough airframe, while the 109 was not.

HelSqnProtos
02-17-2005, 11:07 PM
so why bother with a post in ORR?

LeadSpitter_
02-17-2005, 11:23 PM
GIVE IT A REST LUFTWHINERS the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!!

KGr.HH-Gotcha
02-18-2005, 12:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
GIVE IT A REST LUFTWHINERS the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Lord has spoken !
Now take two plates of stone and write down his wise words as they might guide us in the future.... *irony

Nothing better to offer than an accusation LS ?

lbhskier37
02-18-2005, 12:35 AM
Go away lead. Yes FWs are easy to light if you hit them in the right spot, but when you fly them you should keep that right spot away from guns if possible.

JtD
02-18-2005, 12:35 AM
Mortoma, your observation is correct, the FW catches fire way more easily than the 109. It was this way already when I did this damage test back in AEP 2.0 days:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/aep/0303.html

I don't know why it is that way and I don't think it is correct, but the FW had a ring shaped oil cooler right in front of the engine and if it is hit and oil is leaking, the oil would easily be ingited by the hot engine. At least there is one reason for the FW to burn. There were similar problems with almost all planes, though, and the oil cooler can hardly be hit from 6.

You have to attack 109's from angles where you can hit the engine, they simply will not burn when beeing attacked from 6. FW's will, however. I considered the 109's behaviour at least as buggy than the FW's, so be aware you are comparing two extremes, it's not that the 109 is a good base for comparism.

IvanoBulo
02-18-2005, 01:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Nice joke! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tigertalon
02-18-2005, 02:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
GIVE IT A REST LUFTWHINERS the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He he he, LS, please, show me JUST ONE other plane in game, that becomes as uncontrolable as D9 for example after a SINGLE wing hit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Generally, whenever enemy hits me in my Fw, no matter how many hits he land on me, I consider myself lost. I will probably never make it back to base because of a fuel leak bug. If I miraculasly do, I will probably not be able to land because of uncontrolability at slow speed due to damage. And if I do land perfectly, game will in most cases still award the one who hit me with a victory, so what's the point?

carguy_
02-18-2005, 03:11 AM
Ofcourse it was the toughest cuz you Yank n00bs fire from ranges up to 500m LOL

Your whining has ruined the FW190 DM completely,now it is even weaker than Me109.

Half sec burst from allied MG kicks it out of the fight immediately.Along with other FW type bugs it is the most badly modeled aircraft in this sim.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
02-18-2005, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
GIVE IT A REST LUFTWHINERS the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lead....very poor of you, now STFU

BlackStar2000
02-18-2005, 06:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
Ofcourse it was the toughest cuz you Yank n00bs fire from ranges up to 500m LOL

Your whining has ruined the FW190 DM completely,now it is even weaker than Me109.

Half sec burst from allied MG kicks it out of the fight immediately.Along with other FW type bugs it is the most badly modeled aircraft in this sim. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SAID IT ALL, TRUE ALL THE WAY

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-18-2005, 06:36 AM
once it torched down 4 FW 190's in a hurriIIb, in a tunrfight, with deflection shoots at the engine, and wingroot area..., next mission I shoot all my bullets in one 109F4 from 6 o'clock, which continued flying with some holes all over the plane....
somethings defenetly wrong ...

VW-IceFire
02-18-2005, 07:02 AM
For some reason, the FW190s structure is very tough but its fuel tank is made of a thin version of paper.

Any hit to the fuel tank will either empty its contents in 3 minutes OR cause a nasty fire.

La-5FN's are essentially the same or more durable because of the lack of this instant fuel tank fire.

Fehler
02-18-2005, 07:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
GIVE IT A REST LUFTWHINERS the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GIVE IT A REST LEADWHINER the 190 is one of the quirkiest planes in the game!!!!

moksha
02-18-2005, 07:44 AM
ditto what Icefire said
btw mortoma where are you hitting the 190 when you get this flaming? Just below or behind the pilot?

gates123
02-18-2005, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
GIVE IT A REST LUFTWHINERS the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



He couldn't be anymore right. 190's are the complete package, especially the late Antons.

p1ngu666
02-18-2005, 10:07 AM
pretty sure 109's got tougher in last few patches...

190 isnt that strong, id say beufighter was strongest ingame

il2 is often pretty weak now aswell...

faustnik
02-18-2005, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:

il2 is often pretty weak now aswell... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IL-2s got hacked with DM. From "Cement Bomber" to "Plaster Bomber". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

p1ngu666
02-18-2005, 10:29 AM
yep http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

the armour just doesnt seem to exist, wonder if thats a generic problem. 190 would come off bad, cos it had armour behind fuel tanks?

btw saw mossie guncam vid, 109 and 190 both flamed up bad, but all planes did irl...

mortoma
02-18-2005, 10:43 AM
Luftwhiner?? Me?? I'll have you know I have equally whined about planes from every nationality and then some. I have even whined about planes that are not in the sim!! Now that's dedicated whining!! I'm an EOW, 'equal opportunity whiner'!! By the way, has anybody noticed that the Spad VIII breaks it's landing gear too easily on landing??

Seriously, that was no whine, nor am I a dedicated German flier, I fly everything, even that stupid Polish plane they have in the sim.

It was a serious observation and it ( FW-109 ) does for sure light up like a Zippo lighter on the fourth of July. Much easier prey than is the 109, which the P-40C guns hardly scatch. Ever try this?? Try fighting the P-40C against FWs and 109s before you cast a negative comment against me. And that includes you too, Mr. Leadspitter!!!!

mortoma
02-18-2005, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:

il2 is often pretty weak now aswell... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IL-2s got hacked with DM. From "Cement Bomber" to "Plaster Bomber". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I too have noticed that the IL2 is meat on the table with only a few pings, even a light MG will melt an IL2, as if it were made of warm butter or margarine. It's amazing to see them literally disintegrate into a pathetic conflagration of rubble with only a few hits. And it's the original sims' namesake we're talking about too!!!

mortoma
02-18-2005, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
GIVE IT A REST LUFTWHINERS the 190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What a cwazy dude! If I'm a dedicated Luftwhiner I wouldn't be caught dead in a P-40C!!!! Maybe he doesn't read so well?? A Luftwhiner would be flying the friggen A4 and be complaining about how easily a P-40C shoots it down, not the other way around for cryin' out loud.

NorrisMcWhirter
02-18-2005, 11:36 AM
Hi,

Nice troll, Lead - the undisputed maestro of Ami whining - you only have to go into WC to see that.

Most of the comments here are correct:

a. FW190 lights up like an Xmas tree with a
small number of hits.

b. FW190 runs out of fuel due to the old 'light brown/grey smoke fuel leak gag' which only reappeared a few patches ago.

c. Piss poor 20mms turn the Butcher Bird into more of a 'Vegetarian Bird'

d. FW190 suffers major speed reduction and becomes completely uncontrollable with just a few holes in the wing.

Not to mention the other jokes which have occurred to it of late including the top end speed reduction following bomb drop caper.

All of these problems are hilarious, I'm sure you'll agree, if you are on the allied side.

Of course, I can never understand why the FW190 is still feared by allied fliers when it's been ruined steadily over time. OK, the FM has improved but so has the FM for everything else which negates it. Still, if it wasn't easy to shoot down the 'bad guys' just like in the movies, half of the crybabies would be returning their game to the stores and using the money on buying some similarily biased John Wayne WW2 movies, instead.

Cheers,
Norris

HayateAce
02-18-2005, 11:36 AM
Dunno guys,

I'm really like the 190 series as of late. Get multiple kills per sortie and rtb~ing at a much higher percentage rate. Seems like a great rolling jug-tough plane to me.

ANd teh firepower!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

I take some hits but she keeps on fighting. Sometimes a fuel leak but not too bad. I don't get this wing hit and my life is ended though. Seems a wing hit is OK if you know how to properly fly 190~style in teh first place.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fly 190~style, and learn to be one of teh 190 greats before complain please.

Practice Well and saloot!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bull_dog_
02-18-2005, 11:59 AM
The Fw is my ride of choice when I fly luftwaffe and I am racking up mega kills in it too I might add....yes I get my lunch handed to me when I'm bounced at low altitude by either La's or Mustangs....but few other planes can match it unless I am totally taken by suprise.

In addition, those La's are pretty helpless if I meet them at 5 or 6 thousand meters...I've bagged multiple bogies as a covey of these prized gamebirds chased me around at that altitude...the experience players dive down out of the way but the inexperience keep on flying into my shower of lead helplessly complaining about how uber this is and how porked that is....

No the Fw is just fine...Oleg please don't change a darn thing...if anything needs adjusting it is the DM's of russian aircraft...not the power of the mg151's...those cannons seem to do wonders on mustangs and spits and of course Jugs and lightnings are the toughest of the tough so I expect a little trouble...a yak should fold up under a good blast and they rarely do...la's, laggs and yaks routinely take two or three such blasts.

sikira_SG
02-18-2005, 12:02 PM
Hello!

Hayateace..I dont know you,except from the forums where you appear to write questionable posts.

On what server do you so successfully fly the
190 so I can see how uber technic you got?
Why dont you log on,on WC and show the Blue team show a real master like you dominate with the 190.

Cheers

JV44Sikira

gates123
02-18-2005, 12:41 PM
Well online at Greatergreen the 190 has a positive kill/death ratio against every adversary except the Yak-3. The plane if flown right can be dominating as the statistics show. The only reason I can think of its poor preformance vs a yak-3 is pilot error and getting stuck in a bad turn fight situation. All other planes it has on the average a positive result. The A-6 stats pretty much sums it up since they are not armed with 30mm's. They have a 2.62 k/d ratio against a Jug and a 1.60 k/d against a Spit MkIXCLP. MG-151/20's work, be sure.


Stats can be seen here, just select a 190 varient vs all:

http://www.greatergreen.com/stats/il2/aircraftmatchups.php

faustnik
02-18-2005, 12:44 PM
The fw190 DM has its quirks but, overall it is a tough plane to knock down. The main question that I have is the wing hit/lift loss deal.

The comment on the Mg151 easily knocking down Spitfires and Mustangs really needs to be qualified. Those inline fighters have very vulnerable engines, but, their structure is very resistant to Mg151/20 fire. It would be great if 1C took at look at Mg151.

GR142_Astro
02-18-2005, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull_dog_:
No the Fw is just fine...Oleg please don't change a darn thing...if anything needs adjusting it is the DM's of russian aircraft...not the power of the mg151's...those cannons seem to do wonders on mustangs and spits and of course Jugs and lightnings are the toughest of the tough so I expect a little trouble...a yak should fold up under a good blast and they rarely do...la's, laggs and yaks routinely take two or three such blasts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Interesting take on the 151s.

SparrowThree
02-18-2005, 02:28 PM
Note to self...disregard any posts written by Leadspitter or Norris McWhirter.

NorrisMcWhirter
02-18-2005, 03:12 PM
Pardon?

Norris

LeadSpitter_
02-18-2005, 04:13 PM
I stick by my story give it a rest, 109, ki84 p51 p47 p40 p38 yak la lagg iar80 g.50 b239 i153 i16 basically all planes when shot in the wing will dip a wing and loose alot of speed. Ki84 b239 f2a2 p40 i16 i153 j8m cr42 are close to the 190s roll with same effect I wouldnt exactly call them uncontrollable either. But you would know that if you flew all ac

NOW GIVE IT A REST

and ami whining? most americans fly german specifically so maybe they are amiwhiners for a german cause http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
02-18-2005, 04:18 PM
the yaks are worse in the wing thing, for sure
how often do u get into a terminal spiral dive in 190 with a hurt wing?

in yak, its pretty commen...

tigertalon
02-18-2005, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I stick by my story give it a rest, 109, ki84 p51 p47 p40 p38 yak la lagg iar80 g.50 b239 i153 i16 basically all planes when shot in the wing will dip a wing and loose alot of speed. Ki84 b239 f2a2 p40 i16 i153 j8m cr42 are close to the 190s roll with same effect I wouldnt exactly call them uncontrollable either. But you would know that if you flew all ac

NOW GIVE IT A REST

and ami whining? most americans fly german specifically so maybe they are amiwhiners for a german cause http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello, LS!

I'm not sure if you checked, but this is Il2FB+ACE+PF sim forum, maybe you confused it with some other game?

ZG77_Nagual
02-18-2005, 05:16 PM
the antons have a couple of weak spots - first off high wing loading - which makes them twitchy once you've taken a few wing hits. Then there is the thin armor at the sides of the pilot - and the rear fusilage tank - which is vulnerable - particularly from below. These are well documented. I saw them in a russian dogfighting manual. then certanly don't go up like zeros though.

Bull_dog_
02-18-2005, 07:22 PM
From a statistical standpoint look here http://www.battle-fields.com/stats.php and check out some of the kill:death ratios of various aircraft, particularly the Fw types.

Now this is a cockpit off server so gunnery is much easier and suprise is much harder. This server has very limited icons but you had better be sound tactically and be able to get the most of your aircraft because you have little chance of suprising an enemy and of course less chance of evading due to the lack of cockpit.

I would suspect kills in a Fw without Mk108's would be harder in a full cockpit server due to the annoying cockpit bar that obstructs the sight picture....but I still suspect that in its performance envelope of choice, the Fw aught to do real well.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
02-19-2005, 07:26 AM
that the FW190s do so well looking by statistics on servers like GG and WC is simply because FW190 jocks know what they are doing and mostly not flown by n00bs and newbies, fact.

Im 190 jock and i do well and have no problem staying alive in it, not because the plane is rugged and tuff, i simply dont get in to situations were the enemy gets a good shooting solution.
fly it BnZ extend and away in and out of the fight is the way, alot of us FW jocks do that and stay alive, so no wonder the stats tell us that.

ZG77_Nagual
02-19-2005, 07:32 AM
The cockpit view is the only real limiting factor in the 190. It's performance is quite excellent in all respects. If you are flying cockpit off you are not really flying a 190 since you've removed the only disadvantage it has.

NorrisMcWhirter
02-19-2005, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I stick by my story give it a rest, 109, ki84 p51 p47 p40 p38 yak la lagg iar80 g.50 b239 i153 i16 basically all planes when shot in the wing will dip a wing and loose alot of speed. Ki84 b239 f2a2 p40 i16 i153 j8m cr42 are close to the 190s roll with same effect I wouldnt exactly call them uncontrollable either. But you would know that if you flew all ac

NOW GIVE IT A REST

and ami whining? most americans fly german specifically so maybe they are amiwhiners for a german cause http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With respect to the roll business, the only other planes I fly often are the Spitfire (not as bad as 190), 109 (as bad as 190), P51 (not as bad as 190), P47 (not as bad as 190), Zero (don't get chance to find out as you're on fire), Beaufighter (does this plane have any DM at all?), P40 (not as bad as 190), P38 (what damage?).

Cheers,
Norris

JtD
02-19-2005, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you are flying cockpit off you are not really flying a 190 since you've removed the only disadvantage it has. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


...in this game, maybe.

In the FW I'm not really sure what I should consider more realistc, all those bars that limit your field of vision to an unrealistic level, or switching the cockpit off and improving your field of vision by an equally unrealistic amount.

I know it's more fun to fly the FW without the bars.

mortoma
02-19-2005, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I stick by my story give it a rest, 109, ki84 p51 p47 p40 p38 yak la lagg iar80 g.50 b239 i153 i16 basically all planes when shot in the wing will dip a wing and loose alot of speed. Ki84 b239 f2a2 p40 i16 i153 j8m cr42 are close to the 190s roll with same effect I wouldnt exactly call them uncontrollable either. But you would know that if you flew all ac

NOW GIVE IT A REST

and ami whining? most americans fly german specifically so maybe they are amiwhiners for a german cause http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you try tkaing the P-40Cs weak guns against both FW-190s and 109s??
Nedd I even ask this?? Of course you didn't try it. You are very afraid I'd be proven correct. But you'd probably still deny it.

TooCool_12f
02-20-2005, 04:55 AM
the P40C has six guns if I remember correctly... two in the nose and four in wings


anyway, the FW has its ring oil cooleer around its nose that's vulnerable, it also has the tank the pilot sits on (as the 109), just these two weak spots are enough to set it afire, and it's only normal. If you hit it in the wing at your convergence distance, you have a chance to snap it too... and that's also normal...

if you hit the plane elsewhere, or just marginally by just a few bullets (one?), you won't do any particular damage... it's a rugged bird in theis game, as the real one was

IvanoBulo
02-20-2005, 05:36 AM
FW190 A3 cutway (http://luzyanin.pisem.net/images/fw190_cutway.gif)

Diablo310th
02-20-2005, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigertalon:

He he he, LS, please, show me JUST ONE other plane in game, that becomes as uncontrolable as D9 for example after a SINGLE wing hit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Generally, whenever enemy hits me in my Fw, no matter how many hits he land on me, I consider myself lost. I will probably never make it back to base because of a fuel leak bug. If I miraculasly do, I will probably not be able to land because of uncontrolability at slow speed due to damage. And if I do land perfectly, game will in most cases still award the one who hit me with a victory, so what's the point? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen many 190 and LW pilots claim this. I can tell for a fact that I've hit many a 190 in the wings and not seen any problems in their handling. In fact I've had many turn right around and smoke my butt after....so i really find this hard to believe that 1 50 cal round renders a FW unflyable...I've also gotten many to leaking fuel and watched the NTRK later to see them fly well over 5 mins. back to base and land sucessfully without me getting credit for teh kill. Maybe what you all are saying is true..I've jsut not seen it.

p1ngu666
02-20-2005, 07:58 AM
well, alot of 190 pilots have probably never flown a yak9, so they think there wing damage is worst cos thats all the fly....

p47 can trim out the damage abit, which is why i like full axis trim on aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
02-20-2005, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diablo310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigertalon:

He he he, LS, please, show me JUST ONE other plane in game, that becomes as uncontrolable as D9 for example after a SINGLE wing hit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Generally, whenever enemy hits me in my Fw, no matter how many hits he land on me, I consider myself lost. I will probably never make it back to base because of a fuel leak bug. If I miraculasly do, I will probably not be able to land because of uncontrolability at slow speed due to damage. And if I do land perfectly, game will in most cases still award the one who hit me with a victory, so what's the point? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen many 190 and LW pilots claim this. I can tell for a fact that I've hit many a 190 in the wings and not seen any problems in their handling. In fact I've had many turn right around and smoke my butt after....so i really find this hard to believe that 1 50 cal round renders a FW unflyable...I've also gotten many to leaking fuel and watched the NTRK later to see them fly well over 5 mins. back to base and land sucessfully without me getting credit for teh kill. Maybe what you all are saying is true..I've jsut not seen it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Trust me, getting hit in the wing in a FW190 is a terrible terrible thing. You have to excessively over control the aircraft to try and keep it working again.

The guy who smoked you with the damaged wing was two things: 1) Insane 2) Really good.

In a P-47, you get hit in the wing and you can trim it out, plus the effect is much less overall anyways. But in a FW190 its very severe. Pingu is right too...the Yak's wing damage is the worst of all. The strange part about it is in the fact that a single bullet will cause the behavior. It happens on all planes, just more visibly on the FW. Its just odd...thats all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The fuel tank problem is more of a bug. The rest of it is fairly normal across the board.

IvanoBulo
02-20-2005, 10:22 AM
Made few tests trying to torch the planes. (http://luzyanin.pisem.net/tracks/torch_test.zip)

The test bench:
* I'm flying I-16 (type 18). I could take P-11 but it is too slow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
* The test subjects are the following planes: Bf109G6, Bf109F2, FW190A6, LAGG3(4), Spitfire Mk Vb, P40E, P39D1, P51B

The results of tests (shooting from dead six usually):
1. The planes torches best are:
* Zero
* FW190 (not much harder than Zero)
* P39
2. The planes tourches not good:
* P40
* MiGG
* Spitfire
3. Planes I wasn't able to torch at all (they smoke but not get in fire):
* Bf109 (was very surprisingly for me)
* P51 (but the engine dies fast)
4. LaGG-3. The ultimate plane! It eat bullets like kids eat icecream http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif H.e. no smoke, no visible damage - only the dead pilots...

LeadSpitter, could you look at these tracks and after that please say again that the "190 is one of the toughest planes in game!!!!"? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

harryklein66
02-20-2005, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The fuel tank problem is more of a bug. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not sure this is a bug, it look's that it depend of the round calibre that cause the leak, 20mm or more tend to pierce the 2 tanks, while 12.7 or less pierce only 1 tank in the most case.

OldMan____
02-20-2005, 05:30 PM
FW is very strange DM. Or it completely ignores damage.. it may happen with .303 and sometimes with a few .50 bullets at greater range... even saw this rare times with 20mm Shvak

or....

It behaves like a Mk108 had hit him even for a .50 round.

The wing problem wiht FW is that you need to apply aileron to keep lfyig.. and since ailerons are HUGE sensitive in FW.. it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep on fight whenever you have your wing slightly damaged.



Also I have my own statistics... since I die a lot I have a lot of them :P. And 83% of my deaths on FW190 since I started recording deaths are PK!! Other 14% are mistakes that brings the ground to act unilaterally against me. Second plane I get closer to that PK level is Bf109 with 19% !!!! I really can't explain that!! Think my virtual pilot head must be huge!!

VW-IceFire
02-20-2005, 06:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by harryklein66:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The fuel tank problem is more of a bug. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not sure this is a bug, it look's that it depend of the round calibre that cause the leak, 20mm or more tend to pierce the 2 tanks, while 12.7 or less pierce only 1 tank in the most case. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Still, once you get a hit in that area, you drain the entire tank in 4 minutes. No other aircraft that I've flown in the game (and I've flown most/all) has that sort of trouble.

It seems buggish to me. But thats just me.

For a fairly well procted plane the FW190 is fairly weak. OR...the other aircraft are generally too strong. Could be either way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
02-20-2005, 07:03 PM
think the pilot sits pretty high, and the armour doesnt cover his head well. i do agree its easy to be pk'ed in 190
also in p47, d27 it was really easy awhile ago
think in d27, pilot is fairly open to the sides, only reason i could think off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

also with yak, sometimes u cant apply enuff aliron to even maintain flight!

BBB_Hyperion
02-20-2005, 09:45 PM
How comes pilot sits very high he can hardly see over the nose ?

IvanoBulo
02-21-2005, 02:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
For a fairly well procted plane the FW190 is fairly weak. OR...the other aircraft are generally too strong. Could be either way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think both - the FW190 is weak (but only for the small caliber weapon) and most alied planes are too tough... BTW, I think that the Bf109 is too tough too.
Althought I don't think that DM bugs will ever be fixed... If they fix MG151/20 ammo belt it would be enough for me...

OldMan____
02-21-2005, 03:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
think the pilot sits pretty high, and the armour doesnt cover his head well. i do agree its easy to be pk'ed in 190
also in p47, d27 it was really easy awhile ago
think in d27, pilot is fairly open to the sides, only reason i could think off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

also with yak, sometimes u cant apply enuff aliron to even maintain flight! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In fact I think is another thing. Think collsion detection on PK may be based solely in bullets hitting cockpit. Pit on a FW190 is big if compared to other planes, there is a large "tail" on the glass coverage, and is all that is considered PK target.. that is a possibility.


The fact is FW190 has nasty damage effects: Summ all up:

- Huge loss of speed on ANY MINOR damage. 1 or 2 .50 bullets and you loose 40-60 kph... think little bit hard to beleive. If it was a 20 mm explosive round would be OK.

- Big problems of control only minor damage on wing.


- Complete fuel depletion faster than any plane.

- Very high PK probability.


Some other planes have DM issues.. don't denie that.. but none of them have all 4 and is flown a much as FW190 is...

As I said.. FW are unpredictable. I already received hispano hits on an A9 engine hood and kept flying wiht no problems other than an ugly texture (although that is not common)... but I also faced single .50 hit bringggind down speed by 50 kph ... lots of PK and everytime I am hit on wing I have to bail (other damages you can get to home.. but this one is hard)

p1ngu666
02-21-2005, 06:59 AM
maybe... when ive flown offline in arcade mode, sometimes bullet thru the head does nothing, sometimes u hit say the ear, and hes dead..

AndyHigh
02-21-2005, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Much easier prey than is the 109, which the P-40C guns hardly scatch. Ever try this?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice joke. Have you ever flown 109 in this game? Take it against some bombers with rear gunners and your engine is basically gone if you got hit by a single .303 MG. So don't get stuck into position where they have even slightest theoretical oppurtinity to hit you. Oil on windscreen, smoke or engine stops instantly. Often just one bullet is enough, and you're engine is gone sooner or later. Or how about the magic bullet sucking gunsight which leaves you shooting into the space in dispair. Rudder brokes easily too.

Just check your aim if you can't take 109 out with 4 MGs.