PDA

View Full Version : Decided to make some NEW aircraft for SH3 (Learning 3DS MAX)



JU88
07-21-2006, 03:30 PM
Just learning the ropes with MAX. Ive decided to (try) and make some more units for SH3, starting with some planes.
How possible is it to add new models in the game without the SDK? surley there is some kind of work around - what with all the new ships being added recently.

Here is a viewport snapshot from Max of a Lockheed Hudson Im working on.... early days I know - but I will post updates (hope I can keep the poly count down to reasonable level)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/hudsonweb.jpg

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/aircraft_images/main_images/hudsoniiia.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VikingGrandad
07-21-2006, 04:24 PM
The Hudson's looking good JU88 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I used to play around with 3D modelling software some years ago. It's very rewarding.

Hopefully someone can help you build a mod. Maybe then you could try modelling a Mosquito! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kaleun1961
07-21-2006, 04:42 PM
I wonder if you could replace an existing aircraft within SH3? If so, then you could get rid of the Hurricane in favour of a more historical ASW plane.

JU88
07-21-2006, 04:49 PM
thanks guys, dontworry VG -i plan to do the following...

Hudson
Mosquito
Beaufighter
Armstrong withworth whitley

Then maybe a halifax or B-17 -not sure yet, but probably the former as the B-17 would be a harder job...

JU88
07-22-2006, 07:17 PM
Heres an update....

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/hudson2-1.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

trident42
07-22-2006, 07:24 PM
very nice, wish i had the time to try something like that. Any mod that adds more planes to the game would be fantastic. I too would like to see the mosquito!! Good work!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Baldricks_Mate
07-22-2006, 07:30 PM
What is the story with the oversized rear ball turret on the Hudson. Looks like someone knocked it off from a B 17.

"honest injun, Skipper, it was there after we landed from the last raid!"

Please please, do a Mosquito http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

JU88
07-23-2006, 02:57 PM
Almost ready for skinning now! Ill do a mosquito next - due to overwhelming public demand. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/h3-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/h2-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/h1-1.jpg

hueywolf123
07-23-2006, 03:30 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Looking fantastic, can't wait till it's ready

Goose_Green
07-23-2006, 04:06 PM
Looking great http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

It would be excellent to replace the Hurricane with something a bit more historically correct.

A Mosquito would be a great idea - I'm sure they used them in an anti-shipping role.

The_Silent_O
07-23-2006, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by trident42:
very nice, wish i had the time to try something like that. Any mod that adds more planes to the game would be fantastic. I too would like to see the mosquito!! Good work!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

My mouth is watering, but I'll add I'd like to see a Mossie THAT LAUNCHES ROCKETS like they really did in the big one against subs. Same goes for the Beaufort.

Good work JU-88! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

JU88
07-24-2006, 02:03 AM
Ill do a mosquito, then maybe a beaufighter
I'd also like to add the Whitworth Whitley, B-17 and maybe a halifax. (As all of these aircraft attacked and/or sunk many Uboats)

I dunno if people want to see the Hurricane deleted/gone from the campaign, but I would at least want to see them become as rare as rocking horse sh*t.

As much as Id love to make working rockets for the mosquito and Beaufighter, I would not have a clue as to how to do that, I think It may not be possible - abit like trying to get Elcos to launch fish (SDK is required)
How ever I think It might be possible to model a Mosquiro Mk.XVIII armed with the Autoloading Molins 57 mm cannon, only 27 of these were made originally for an anti-tank role, but proved inadiquate against German armour - so they were turned in to U-boat hunters instead. For SH3 they could make amends for the missing rockets.

BTW I REALLY NEED A PIC OF A MOLINS EQUIPED MOSQUITO!!

Guys, Im gonna need all the help in the world to get my models modded and working in to SH3...
Once I have a few planes ready - maybe (4 or 5) I will need major help from the highest ranks in the SH3 modding community. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

VikingGrandad
07-24-2006, 02:55 AM
I found some on Google:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/248sqnmosquitoxviii.gif

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/mxiii_small.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/dh98tsetse-2.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/jun2_t.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/Mosquito20XVIII20CFS3.jpg


More Google results here (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=mosquito+xviii&btnG=Search&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=)

The more I look at that nose cone with the cannon and machine guns, the more scared I get! I wonder if it will be possible to replicate its firepower? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Celeon999
07-24-2006, 04:08 AM
Excellent work http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


Celeon cant wait to see it in action http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JU88
07-24-2006, 04:55 AM
Sweet!!! thanks VG thats great help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I reckon we can replicate its fire power!
on sub sim some guy mounted a bismark turret on a catalina!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
Me thinks it would be possible to give it the firepower properties of say -an armed merchant gun turret, reduce the damage but give it more rapid fire!
Im sure it can be done, we have the technology http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only problem is I cant decide what do now, either skin the hudson (which is now complete)
or start bulding me a 'skito' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

....I cant tell you how exited I am about this little project.

VikingGrandad
07-24-2006, 05:36 AM
Before you spend a lot more time on the Hudson or the Mossie, it might be a good idea to post your ideas on the subsim forum, to find out from the modding experts what is possible/impossible. I think you will get a better response there than you would on the Community Creatives forum here. Or maybe ask one of the expert modders who visit this forum, e.g. Teddy B¤r or Beery?

I had an idea about modding the wing-mounted rocket launchers - I wonder if it would be possible to treat these as artillery guns, in a similar way that you are suggesting for the Molins canon? It may well be impossible to have an actual rocket projectile fire from its mounting on the aircraft, but it's the firepower and resulting damage we're primarily interested in bringing to the game, not the eye candy. So, even though you wouldn't see a rocket, I wonder if 8 rocket launchers could be simulated with 8 cannons with 1 round each, or even 1 cannon with 8 rounds?

Also, if you need some help with the skinning, I would be happy to offer my Photoshop expertise - e.g. camo patterns, insignia, wear and tear, rust, etc.

JU88
07-24-2006, 07:12 AM
thanks VG i will need help with skinning although Im decent with photoshop, my current headache is that I dont know how to skin the model appopriatly for the game, Im experimenting with max's UVW unwrapper (which is supposed to unwrap the model and lay it flat for easy bitmap creation, but its not as simple as it sounds), also I dont know how to create alpha channels http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

In fact I would honoured if you (VG) or some one could help me with skinning them.
Btw the current poly count for the model is about 2000-ish (since its about 900 facets), you think its is ok?

(a facet is a square face [quad],
polygons are triangles, so 2 triangles to make a square)

VikingGrandad
07-24-2006, 03:31 PM
I only understand enough about 3D games to know that polygon count is critical to game performance. I have no idea is 2,000 is high or low, relative to the other models in SH3.

By alpha channels, do you mean in Photoshop or 3DS Max? I've been using Photoshop alpha channels/masks for years. I have noticed that many of SH3's graphics (the TGA files) have an alpha channel. I'm not familiar with the specifics of 3DS Max alpha channels, but have used them in other, more primitive 3D programs (many years ago!) so I do understand the theory at least.

I just dug out some renders of two models I made over 10 years ago...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/CAT1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/Komatsu2.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/Komatsu3.jpg
(the last two are/were a work in progress)

These were made in a long-extinct program called Infini-D, and took many hours to render just one camera view! I'd like to get back into 'modelling' again one day - I hear the money is good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JU88
07-24-2006, 05:30 PM
Arrggghhh, I spend all day doing a darn mosquito but it turns out someone (Sergbuto) already done a mosquito for for SH3!!! Meh....
its not availiable for download... yet....

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/mosquitomodel.jpg

WilhelmSchulz.
07-24-2006, 09:06 PM
Although I can not modd I would like to contrubuite. Any thing I can do to help?(Skin reasearch) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

And also do you know to do the aircraft behaviors? ALL MODERS HELP! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Sounds good too. I might leave my Flotilla to have this! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

WilhelmSchulz.
07-25-2006, 05:31 PM
Dont forget the B-18

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9929/b18boloxa9.jpg

WilhelmSchulz.
07-25-2006, 09:02 PM
Hear is a Beaufighter for you JU88.
IL2 but....
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1489/il17kc8sb0.jpg

Kaleun1961
07-25-2006, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by WilhelmSchulz.:
Although I can not modd I would like to contrubuite. Any thing I can do to help?(Skin reasearch) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif


Yeah, you can run the spell checker for the documentation package.

Just having fun. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kaleun1961
07-25-2006, 09:11 PM
Having the Beaufighter in this game would really make things interesting. We all know how easy it is in this game to knock down Allied planes, but in real life it was no easy thing.

The Sunderland was a good ASW plane but is easy to kill in the game. Same with the Swordfish, which did enjoy some successes against the U-boats in the earlier years of the war.

With the swarms of Allied planes over the Bay of Biscay in the summer of 1943, the Germans were desperate for a solution. One idea they had was to equip some boats with extra flak guns and sail them in groups on the surface. This was also a disaster for the Germans. A group of Beaufighters mangled U-441 in one attack in July '43, after which the Germans abandoned this tactic. With the introduction of the schnorkel they were able to minimize their surface running time and losses to aircraft declined.

Yes, I'd love to see the Beaufighter in the game. It would really make our careers more interesting.

WilhelmSchulz.
07-25-2006, 09:17 PM
Shutup K61. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Wasint that a Soviet sub #?

Kaleun1961
07-25-2006, 09:27 PM
I watched a documentary last night about the Battle of the Atlantic. It said that U-441 was a U-flak which was shot up by Beaufighters, forced to withdraw from the battle.

hueywolf123
07-25-2006, 10:05 PM
My grandfather, before he went to Mosquitoes, was in Bleheims, then did a short stint in Beafighters the night-fighter version.When he went to mossies, He flew a lot of sorties with that bloody great cannon slung under the nose, and I remember him telling me that when you hit the trigger for it, the noise and the recoil used to jar him and make his hearing numb for several minutes. He also said you never actually got to see what it did to targets unless you were last in line on the approach, it all happened too fast

JU88
07-26-2006, 10:50 AM
Dont worry- I definatly will the following....

Beaufighter
Beaufort
Whitworth whitley
Halifax
B-17
Anson

in that order.

Might do a B-18 Bolo, gruman hellcat and B-25 michell if i get time.

Hudson and Mosquito done and ready for skinning, any volenteers?

Realjambo
07-26-2006, 11:26 AM
Hey JU88, I can't offer any technical advice sadly but I can offer my praise and encouragement - this all looks really exciting and I'm really impressed.

Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see the end results. I'm sure 'those in the know' will give you the help you need to 'get them off the ground' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Don't give up!

JU88
07-26-2006, 01:58 PM
The idea is virtually scrap the hurricane as the main ASW plane in SH3. If i have it my way, you wont see a hurricane Unless you are raiding a British port or making a trip up the Thames, (eg -be very near the caost) I plan to adjust airbases so that Hurricane sightings will become as rare as rocking horse ****. And i will remove their bombs!!!

Replacing them, will be historic ASW planes
Early war planes will include:

Avro Anson
Armstong witworth whitley
perhaps an early Wellington (one with out radar masts)

After 1939/40 I want these aircraft to dissapear
and be suitably replaced by

Lockheed hudson
Beaufighter
Mosquito

for 1941/42 I want to make beufighter and mosquitos a common sight over biscay, and permenant one from 1943 onwards. I dont know about you but Ive traveled though Biscay in 43/44 unmolosted more often than not.

All new aircraft i add will have MachineGuns and bombs/Depth charges.

Virtual rockets have been created by sergbuto but there are problems with them at the moment

I should beable to create a dencet modlins cannon for the mosquito, with a bit of help from the guys at sub sim...



The Sunderland, Catalina and B-24 can stay obviously, and I hope to add the B-17 and Halifax also.

I want to ensure that there are no Avengers or swordfish taking off from Land airbases what so ever, and that they only spawn from carriers.

I promise I wont give up on this project guys, its gonna take a lot of my spare time, dont expect to see any thing other and pics for the next few months. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JU88
07-26-2006, 02:07 PM
BTW i desperatly need blue prints for the

Armsrong whitworth Whitley
Handley page halifax
and
B-18 Bolo

VikingGrandad
07-26-2006, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by JU88:
Hudson and Mosquito done and ready for skinning, any volenteers?

Can you send me some kind of plan to work to? I'd love to get stuck in!

WilhelmSchulz.
07-26-2006, 02:22 PM
Here ya go. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Armsrong whitworth Whitley (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot/ww2planes/ww2usa/armstrong-whitworth-whitley.gif)
http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/272/whitley.gif

B-18 Bolo (http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/272/bolo.gif)

Handley page halifax (http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/272/halifax.gif)

Main sight.
http://www.suurland.com/blueprints.php?catagory=13&order=name

WilhelmSchulz.
07-26-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by JU88:
The idea is virtually scrap the hurricane as the main ASW plane in SH3. If i have it my way, you wont see a hurricane Unless you are raiding a British port or making a trip up the Thames, (eg -be very near the caost) I plan to adjust airbases so that Hurricane sightings will become as rare as rocking horse ****. And i will remove their bombs!!!

Replacing them, will be historic ASW planes
Early war planes will include:

Avro Anson
Armstong witworth whitley
perhaps an early Wellington (one with out radar masts)

After 1939/40 I want these aircraft to dissapear
and be suitably replaced by

Lockheed hudson
Beaufighter
Mosquito

for 1941/42 I want to make beufighter and mosquitos a common sight over biscay, and permenant one from 1943 onwards. I dont know about you but Ive traveled though Biscay in 43/44 unmolosted more often than not.
Uhhhh the Witly sank U-Boats well into 1943. And I think it was used the whole war.

JU88
07-26-2006, 04:06 PM
Thanks whilhelm! thats a great help!
And thanks fro the tip about the Whitley http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VG I will try and sort a plan out for you over the next few days.... Im still kinda scratching my head over that one, time to stick my head back in to the 3DS Max 7 bible me thinks...

Heres the finished moquito complete with Molins

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/mosquito-complete.jpg

Iggins01
07-26-2006, 04:23 PM
I've been messing around with the properties of the SH3 aircraft recently, i'd love to fool around with the AI for them if i can figure out how to do it. If i can be of any assistance just drop me a line.

Kaleun1961
07-26-2006, 05:39 PM
JU88, I'm really pleased that you are taking on the task of adding new aircraft to the game. If I can ask one favour, if possible please modify the ridiculous AI routine that sends a whole squadron after one U-boat. It just didn't happen like that. ASW planes usually patrolled alone. Group attacks occurred when the Germans tried the U-flak group tactic. Beaufighters attacked these surfaced U-boat groups by attacking simultaneously from several different directions. When the Germans abandoned the group sailing of their subs, the aircraft flew solo again.

It really is silly to see something like 12 Sunderlands at once going after one U-boat. For most of the war there was a shortage of ASW aircraft. The Allies didn't have the luxury of being able to send them out in squadron sized patrols.

Goose_Green
07-26-2006, 05:41 PM
Excellent progress do far JU88, Keep up the good work! I am sure many of us are eagerly anticipating your finished results!

WilhelmSchulz.
07-26-2006, 07:13 PM
But I do belive they patroled in pairs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

JU88, will you be able to smoth out the skin of the Mosquito?

Kaleun1961
07-26-2006, 07:54 PM
I believe the big planes like the Sunderland, Hudson, B-24's and the like flew solo. Fighter type AC like the Wildcat [Brits called it the Martlet] flying from carriers may have operated in pairs. I'm not trying to be dogmatic about this. Up until about 1943 the supply of planes dedicated to ASW were inadequate. The Allies tried to spread them out over as much ocean as possible in order to maximize the efficiency of operations. With planes in short supply, sending two out together would mean there would be a gap somewhere else.

For the British, the shortage of ASW planes was mainly because "Bomber" Harris hogged the bombers [much like Goring in this respect] for his much beloved "strategic" bombing of German cities. Although at the outbreak of war in 1939 the British were woefully underequipped for ASW patrols, by late 1940 into 1941 there were plenty of planes available. It was just that Harris jealously guarded them for Bomber Command. Once the Allies made killing the U-boats a priority, Churchill forced Harris to hand over long range bombers to Coastal Command. When the Americans began supplying VLR [Very Long Range] B-24's and escort carriers, the Mid-Atlantic gap was closed and the convoys enjoyed end to end air cover.

JU88
07-27-2006, 02:27 AM
yeah, 6+ sunderlands attacking at once in a line Is really gamey, i dont mind two or three though.
You gotta remember that once a plane to picked up a uboats scent, It was common for it to keep its distance while it called in other aircraft once a second or third plane arrived, they would attack the boat from different angles to overwhelm the AA gunners.

VikingGrandad
07-27-2006, 01:20 PM
JU88 - looks like you're getting some useful support in the subsim SH3 forum. Looks promising!

BTW - I like your subsim sig JU88 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Kaleun1961
07-27-2006, 03:03 PM
When a patrol plane spotted a surfaced U-boat it almost always immediately commenced an attack run. The reason for this is that a surfaced U-boat might dive away at any moment. You had to attack when you could. Most of the time, in daylight, the U-boat could spot the plane and dive before it got close enough for an accurate attack.

The best time to drop ordnance was when the U-boat was still on the surface or had just dived. The spotting plane would make one or two attack runs, dropping bombs or depth charges, then it would circle the area and report the sighting. Even if it had no ordnance left, it would try to hang around to see if its attack had damaged the sub and would force it to surface. If the sub came up again, the first plane could beacon in other planes.

Flying around and calling in other planes wasn't the standard thing to do until the Germans started sailing their subs in groups with a U-flak. In that circumstance, one plane attacking solo was unwise. The Germans didn't do this for long, for the reason I mentioned in a previous post. A group of Beaufighters mauled a group sailing with a U-flak and the Germans soon abandoned this tactic.

What turned the tide against the U-boats as far as aerial attacks was concerned was the introduction of airborne radar and the Leigh Light. During good weather, the U-boat could usually dive away before the plane got close enough for a good attack. In bad weather, the chances of a plane accidentally bumping into a surfaced U-boat were extremely rare. Once the planes started carrying radar, they could detect a surfaced U-boat and commence an attack run before the U-boat could see it visually. The combination of Leigh Light and radar allowed patrol planes at night to approach to within a mile or two of a surfaced U-boat undetected and then turn on the light to see the U-boat and attack before it could dive.

With Allied planes carrying radar and Leigh Lights, the U-boats lost the cloak of darkness and poor weather. It then became risky to run on the surface at night or in low visibility daylight weather. Radar detectors helped for a while, until the Allies changed their radar wavelengths again. They eventually introduced a radar that could detect the schnorkel head. The Germans lost the technology race in the Battle of the Atlantic. By the time they had a really dangerous U-boat in the Type XXI it was too late.

VikingGrandad
07-27-2006, 03:13 PM
Great summary K61 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

You should be a history teacher!

hueywolf123
07-27-2006, 03:27 PM
Don't forget K61, that although single seaters may have attacked then radioed, all other aircraft would have been radioing updates before during and after the attack, giving position etc. Most of the time, an aircrafts patrol radius was overlapped on both sides, therefore within the hour three or more could be there, also, it wasn't just the aircraft who recieved the messages, sometimes any DE in the area also came over to help