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View Full Version : How did those Germans ever hit those Russians with the BF 109?



XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:08 PM
After weeks of playing IL-2 FB I think the bf 109 is very difficult to fly. Even the 1st Russians planes fly a lot easer than the bf 109. Where the Russians that bad or is there a problem with the flight model?? After all the Germans shot down a lot of Russians with the bf 109.

Good Hunting
Jaws43

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:08 PM
After weeks of playing IL-2 FB I think the bf 109 is very difficult to fly. Even the 1st Russians planes fly a lot easer than the bf 109. Where the Russians that bad or is there a problem with the flight model?? After all the Germans shot down a lot of Russians with the bf 109.

Good Hunting
Jaws43

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:24 PM
The 109 is not dificult to fly, but you may neeed some time to get the hang of it. When you'l do that all it's gonna be just a piece of cake(literaly).
After a few good years of Il2 and FB,I just love the 109. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
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XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:26 PM
The german guns have the worse ROF and accuracy for a new player in the game. God the 109 shakes like a washing machine during the spin cycle so properly line up a shot is a task. But when you mastered it youll be a online surgeon in the 109.

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:28 PM
whine whine whine. Man, these forums have gone down the crapper.

I aint a pimp no mo. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:32 PM
Jaws. Get close enough, then get even closer /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

109 is a dream to fly IF you handle it right

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XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:35 PM
the 109 is one of the best planes in game it does take work ,but put the time in and you will love it, try diff types and find the one you like ,LONG LIVE THE 109 and fear not lol ,DEATH TO THE LA7

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:42 PM
LONG LIVE
- THE 109 and fear not lol ,DEATH TO THE LA7
-

HALELUIA!!!!
The first plane I flew in Il2 was the 109 G6, I crashed on takeoff(with easy settings(!!!)).
Now There is no secret sbout it for me.
This plane is the Master of the Skyes, if flown well.....It's simply is a joy to fly....

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.hobby.ro/roarmy/aviatia/greceanu%20tudor/1.jpg
A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:48 PM
DEATH to the BF

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>
<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] HAHAHAHAHAHA <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
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XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:50 PM
What part of the 109 is hard to fly? It seems like a pretty mellow plane with no bad habits to me.

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XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:52 PM
BUZZ...your picture is 2 big!!/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif lol it realy is/i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif

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<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:55 PM
I find it's gotten beat up a little in the latest "patch".
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:58 PM
So is yours knucklehead. 400x200../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 12:01 AM
your's 31 kb/i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif

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Bearcat101
09-07-2003, 12:22 AM
Im glad they botched the 109s.

Less luft-chickens

"-When in doubt, empty your magazine.
-Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you are.
-Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder.
-If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.
-No plan survives the first contact intact.
-All 5 second grenade fuses burn down in 3 seconds." Excerpt from Murphy's Laws

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 12:28 AM
Bearcat101 wrote:
- Im glad they botched the 109s.
-
- Less luft-chickens

DEATH to YOU!

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.hobby.ro/roarmy/aviatia/greceanu%20tudor/1.jpg
A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

Bearcat101
09-07-2003, 12:39 AM
Death to me while I watch you careening towards the deck with one wing and a rudder made in Japan.


I'll fly away in my shiny P-47 and intercept your buddies. When you meet your them in your afterlife, tell them I sent ya. They'll remember me, or at least the business end of my .50 cals.

"-When in doubt, empty your magazine.
-Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you are.
-Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder.
-If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.
-No plan survives the first contact intact.
-All 5 second grenade fuses burn down in 3 seconds." Excerpt from Murphy's Laws

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 01:08 AM
fear not jaws, i fly the 109 exclusively and its not all bad. in time you'll be beating up on some of the uFo like russian aircraft.

when flown right the 109 can be deadly. a good phrase is 'the 109 is a murder weapon, not a dueling toy'. you aren't going to be able to keep up with alot of the russian planes in a straight up turn fight, you need to stay fast and use the vertical. always try to enter the fight higher than them unless you got a few friendlies around you. the 109 is more of a thinking mans plane. you gotta know when to push it and when not to.

sometimes you'll find yourself doing the patented run09. where you've blown your speed and didn't get the shot and now you got some sick twisty plane all over you and the only thing left to do is run.

if you having problems with your gunnery, maybe seeing it being done will help. click the movie in my sig for some 109 gunnery luvin. its mostly 109E4's vs. Mig3's.

i admit on some of the crazy shots (not all) i had the cockpit off.. but it was still a great shot nonetheless.


[EDIT]
actually i've got another movie, but its only partial. i quit working on it till FB gets patched again. but is good enough for viewing.

its mostly 109G6's and 109K4's (full realism), its about 10mb or so.
http://www.bellsouthpwp.net/G/u/Gutted/EdgeCrusher_partial.wmv


hope this helps. always glad to get more 109 pilots in the skies.

- Gutted

-------------------------------------
Check out my IL-2 Movie:

SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) [b](30.5mb)
Make sure your Windows Media Player is up to date.

Message Edited on 09/07/0312:10AM by gutted_666

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 01:19 AM
Centralized armament means:

less dispersion + greater concentration of firepower + less effected by convergence

However, it also means:

1) Since dispersion is less, the 'shotgun effect' is also much less - 'spraying' at ranges will be less effective than compared to planes with multiple guns on wings.

2) The concentration of firepower, only works if you aimed it right. A well aimed 20mm burst with consecutive hits on a single spot, will take down a tougher plane lot faster than even the P-47 - but the problem is, getting that "well aimed" status needs a lot of practice.

The pros and cons are clear. You'll need a bit more discipline in firing at targets, compared to the planes that have guns in their wings. However, once you get the hang of it, the firepower is devastating.





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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:44 AM
Von_Zero wrote:
- Bearcat101 wrote:
-- Im glad they botched the 109s.
--
-- Less luft-chickens
-
- DEATH to YOU!
-

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Amen brother!
A 109 is hard to fly, it needs some konledge, some trimming, lots of discipline, some brains (enough to stay out of turning fights) and guts. Because it take lots of guts to get to 100m of the target at 500+ kph, but if you do and manage to get some 20mm shots in the right spots, you won't need to do it again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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<

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:01 AM
Ok I will practice more to get that @#! bf 109 under control. Thanks for your replies.

Good Hunting
Jaws43

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:35 AM
gutted_666 wrote:
-sometimes you'll find yourself doing the patented
- run09. where you've blown your speed and didn't get
- the shot and now you got some sick twisty plane all
- over you and the only thing left to do is run.
if you are in a 109G14 /g10 tell me how can you run far away from la7?

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:24 AM
I never fly Russian to make any comparison but the 109 never felt difficult to fly in any way.
If anything it was always much more forgiving than a 190 both in Il-2 and FB, patch or no patch.
It always felt pretty straightforward once you got it off the ground.

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:28 AM
the 109 is a good plane but the 109 k is a little hard to fly right now.

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Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 11:30 AM
The early bf109's had peashooters for guns, the 20mm is the only effective weapon on the craft, get close so that the enemy is practically looming in your view then gun it with the 20mm. I use the small cal weapons for harrassment and forcing th enemy into maneveurs they can't complete

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:57 PM
Jaws43 wrote:
- After weeks of playing IL-2 FB I think the bf 109 is
- very difficult to fly. Even the 1st Russians planes
- fly a lot easer than the bf 109. Where the Russians
- that bad or is there a problem with the flight
- model?? After all the Germans shot down a lot of
- Russians with the bf 109.
-
- Good Hunting
- Jaws43

The 109's weak armament is also it's strenght in a way:

The armament is closely grouped together which makes it devastating at close range.

If you compare with most other aircraft with wing armament, you have to set your harmonisation at some range: set to far away and your rounds will pass on either side of your opponent even if your aim is perfect!. Set it to close in and your fire will cross before reaching the target with the same result.

Now in the 109, everything you got is concentarted in your nose and if you get close (20-100m) every round you pump out is gonna ring the bell!

Try approaching low from behind, zoom up from below and rake your opponent. It takes some fire with the 20mm but with a 30mm round you barely have to touch the trigger before they are gutted!

Ich liebe mein "beule"!

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 03:05 PM
its actually no different than the Yaks as far as armament goes and the 109's actually have more ammo than the Yak's

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 04:18 PM
The ShVAK machinegun has a higher Rate of fire - higher muzzle velocity iirc - and a spot of TNT in the bullet. SO the ShVAK is IMHO a nicer MG, the bullets delivers almost twice the energy

C!

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 04:40 PM
ROSHKO_69.GIAP wrote:
- The ShVAK machinegun has a higher Rate of fire -
- higher muzzle velocity iirc - and a spot of TNT in
- the bullet. SO the ShVAK is IMHO a nicer MG, the
- bullets delivers almost twice the energy


For exactly the same reason russian MGs and cannons produce more recoil, which means that first shots will be on the target, rest of them will be off. Bf-109 should have less recoil, and even if the hits are not so strong, it should clearly land more bullets on the target.

Currently all russian planes fire recoilless weapons though in reality they suffered the most from recoil effects.


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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:04 PM
neah...hard to fly? Watch this...broke the wing of A JUG with a burst of MG and cannon. I flew a Bf-109G6(plaine and not the better "late" version) vs a Jug, the D-27 version.
It never had a chance.
So, AIM CAREFULLY! It has all the weapons in the nose, the cone of fire is much line a line, so it is more like a sniper weapon. Also, the plane tends to be AN UNSTABLE FIRING PLATFORM UNDER ~400 km/h. So, BE PATIENT, line up your self, give it the required lead when aiming and fire short bursts. Spray and pray method is no choice in this plane. Also, when slowe than 400km/h, be gentle with the stick and rudder, unles you know how to catch the plane, you will overcorrect more and more...which angried youhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Good luck.

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:51 PM
Nice sig Sobo. maybe an explanation would be oportune,cuz i doubt too many ppl know about that flight /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.hobby.ro/roarmy/aviatia/greceanu%20tudor/1.jpg
A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:59 PM
Here's what I do in 109's, and even in my I-16 which I fly most of the time.
Get your deflection to where you think your on. Harrass them with the MG's until they get into a manuever that gives you a good shot then stop. In the pause they will settle down trying to figure out what you are doing.
Then just tap the cannon fire button, correct your aim, and tap again. I've found that in the right places it takes very few rounds on target to down an aircraft.
I've shot down aircraft on multiple occasions in every cannon equiped plane I've flown even without all the guns in the nose. With a mere 4 cannon rounds or two taps of the trigger.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:09 PM
sobolan wrote:
- neah...hard to fly? Watch this...broke the wing of A
- JUG with a burst of MG and cannon. I flew a
- Bf-109G6(plaine and not the better "late" version)
- vs a Jug, the D-27 version.
- It never had a chance.
- So, AIM CAREFULLY! It has all the weapons in the
- nose, the cone of fire is much line a line, so it is
- more like a sniper weapon. Also, the plane tends to
- be AN UNSTABLE FIRING PLATFORM UNDER ~400 km/h. So,
- BE PATIENT, line up your self, give it the required
- lead when aiming and fire short bursts. Spray and
- pray method is no choice in this plane. Also, when
- slowe than 400km/h, be gentle with the stick and
- rudder, unles you know how to catch the plane, you
- will overcorrect more and more...which angried youhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
- Good luck.


Sobo, nobody says it can't be done, but it should be easier to keep the target in sights after first burst with Bf-109G than with Yak1b and late. Yaks had bigger recoil.


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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:30 PM
Greetings-I'm addicted to the 109. I fly other planes just so I can feel good when I get back in it. Something about it just suits me.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:50 PM
Just be patient when aiming in a Bf 109. It's difficult to aim in it, so you'll have to be near, and then, don't try to follow your target constantly. Just calculate its movement and yours and let it fly inside you gunsight alone. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

And if it escapes, don't follow! Disengage and try from far again, or you'll be in a turning fight, losing energy and speed to your disadvantage.

- Dux Corvan -

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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 08:00 PM
sobolan, lol ur funnay, try doing this wiht time set to normal, the matrix time slowdown does not show ne skill you have with bf.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 09:56 PM
I find the 109 a lot harder to fly with the new patch also. It bleeds speed awful so don't turn with it. Just B&Z like your supposed to.