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p-11.cAce
01-28-2007, 08:59 AM
Buried by Fox Studios quite possibly the funniest & scariest movie ever made!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
The cause (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOh-oMZI-QQ)
The hospital (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSDRNc-SLos)
Fox News in the future (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlSa7KxsR8M)
The trial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2izZYZVhEA)
The president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAeyWap3yMQ)

capt_frank
01-28-2007, 09:09 AM
My wife was a real trooper and watched it with me. She hated it whereas I thought it was downright hilarious, mixed with a bit of the absurd. Loved the use of the middle finger... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Catch it at your favourite Blockbuster.

Waldo.Pepper
01-28-2007, 10:14 AM
Ow my balls!

Agamemnon22
01-28-2007, 04:14 PM
Just saw this 2 days ago, frakkin brilliant!

Lucius_Esox
01-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Funny stuff,,, didn't even know this film existed...

EyeoftheChicken
01-28-2007, 05:42 PM
Is Dr Lexus the mac guy?

Waldo.Pepper
01-28-2007, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by EyeoftheChicken:
Is Dr Lexus the mac guy?
Yes, Justin Long.

p-11.cAce
01-28-2007, 06:22 PM
Funny stuff,,, didn't even know this film existed...

Yeah - Fox Studios BURIED it...seeing as how it makes fun of 99.9% of their viewing audience I understand why. I think they released it to 130 screens to satisfy some legalize in their contract and it was never screened to any critics, received no marketing, and did not even get a lobby poster. Seeing as it basicaly confirms what most people believe the future will become I imagine it will do very well now that it has hit DVD and YouTube.

fordfan25
01-28-2007, 06:31 PM
I feel very offended by that movie. i hopes the next'un will be more better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

lbhskier37
01-28-2007, 06:31 PM
Sounds like a movie based on the NOFX album War on Errorism. I definitly gotta see that!

Waldo.Pepper
01-28-2007, 07:36 PM
based on

Nope based on a sci fi story from the 50's called The Marching Morons.

Feathered_IV
01-29-2007, 03:00 AM
The best bit is when President Camacho takes out a Tiger tank with a .50 cal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

RCAF_Irish_403
01-29-2007, 03:50 AM
Future?!!? My @SS! We're there now

bazzaah2
01-29-2007, 03:51 AM
too true, lol.

And it's spreading.

RCAF_Irish_403
01-29-2007, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by bazzaah2:
too true, lol.

And it's spreading.

Dude, i've felt that way for a long time now.

Too bad something like this had to get buried by The Suits at Fox Studios....prolly too close to the truth for 'em

RCAF_Irish_403
01-29-2007, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">based on

Nope based on a sci fi story from the 50's called The Marching Morons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Have to look into that

ploughman
01-29-2007, 06:28 AM
The guy being 'rehabilitated,' dressed up in a bunny suit and getting run over by the monster truck lawnmower.

I'm still weeping with mirth. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

p-11.cAce
01-29-2007, 06:46 AM
Some more:
Carl's Jr. Vending machine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNjWJd8ufw)
10 minute fan cut trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYvSaLoMZHE)

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-29-2007, 07:33 AM
Now I know what our next 'Family-movie-night' feature is going to be. You guys are great. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

PFflyer
01-29-2007, 08:06 AM
I am an american, telling you out there that this is precisely why the rest of the world should fear the United States so much.

The USA is ground zero for "de-evolution", and it has reached a point here where indeed it has taken over the highest levels of our government.

This de-evolution is a plague, and should be fought and resisted by all the peoples of the world as such.

Do not imitate americans, long for their lifestyle, clothing, etc.. If there is anything that will be the end of the human race, this is it right here, please do not be a part of it.

THank you.

georgeo76
01-29-2007, 08:10 AM
Much like Bevis and ********, this move seemed to target the same audience that it spoofed. Too many **** and fart jokes for my taste.



The USA is ground zero for "de-evolution", and it has reached a point here where indeed it has taken over the highest levels of our government.

Careful with that social Darwinisim Eugine.

p-11.cAce
01-29-2007, 09:46 AM
For anyone interested in a fascinating legal opinion regarding the governments rights in reproductive areas check out Buck v. Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell)
Somehow I think the republicans of today would be shocked by the outcome of this case and the brilliantly worded ruling written by Republican (Teddy Roosevelt) appointed Oliver W. Holmes. Keep in mind that this ruling was LAW until 1974. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

XyZspineZyX
01-29-2007, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by PFflyer:
I am an american, telling you out there that this is precisely why the rest of the world should fear the United States so much.

The USA is ground zero for "de-evolution", and it has reached a point here where indeed it has taken over the highest levels of our government.

This de-evolution is a plague, and should be fought and resisted by all the peoples of the world as such.

Do not imitate americans, long for their lifestyle, clothing, etc.. If there is anything that will be the end of the human race, this is it right here, please do not be a part of it.

THank you.

Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!

SeaFireLIV
01-29-2007, 10:27 AM
wow. I thought this was rubbish at first, but it actually has a very serious message that I think might herald this film as a rare classic in time. `Dumbing down` is not only a problem in games, but something that`s creeping slowly into every facet of society.

You know, I`ve even been recently considering getting rid of my TV because of the continuous rubbish it spouts and everyone seems to think it`s fine. Even a lot of the news doesn`t seem to really tell it as it is. And this is in the UK! I even recently got access to CNN and I wasn`t impressed. Very biased.

joeap
01-29-2007, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
wow. I thought this was rubbish at first, but it actually has a very serious message that I think might herald this film as a rare classic in time. `Dumbing down` is not only a problem in games, but something that`s creeping slowly into every facet of society.

You know, I`ve even been recently considering getting rid of my TV because of the continuous rubbish it spouts and everyone seems to think it`s fine. Even a lot of the news doesn`t seem to really tell it as it is. And this is in the UK! I even recently got access to CNN and I wasn`t impressed. Very biased.

You've never watched Fox have you? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif Be glad, be very glad. BBC I still like but I get most of my info from the net and newspapers.

georgeo76
01-29-2007, 01:24 PM
Social Darwinism is fascist, and it's conclusions are inevitable.

XyZspineZyX
01-29-2007, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by georgeo76:
Social Darwinism is fascist, and it's conclusions are inevitable.

You know, a Social Darwinist will never under any circumstances drink water.

PFflyer
01-29-2007, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PFflyer:
I am an american, telling you out there that this is precisely why the rest of the world should fear the United States so much.

The USA is ground zero for "de-evolution", and it has reached a point here where indeed it has taken over the highest levels of our government.

This de-evolution is a plague, and should be fought and resisted by all the peoples of the world as such.

Do not imitate americans, long for their lifestyle, clothing, etc.. If there is anything that will be the end of the human race, this is it right here, please do not be a part of it.

THank you.

Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your response shows that you are part of the problem.
Great americans, don't run when there are problems in the country, they stay and fight for what is right to make America a better place, as they did in the Revolutionary War, as the North did in the Civil War to end slavery, as Martin Luther King did in his time to end bigotry, and as brave american journalists have done to rid the country of MCarthy's communist witch hunts, and the scoundrels of watergate. The list goes on and on.

A bad american, or any other closed-minded idiot, would not know or be aware of this history though, or the meaning of being an American and would tend to make un-intelligent remarks like yours, you should have been in the movie in question!

carguy_
01-29-2007, 07:24 PM
The funniest thing about it is that the idiots who watch it laugh.....laugh at themselves without even noticing it.

Those parts I did not find hilarious.If anyting,I felt like I wanted to suffocate every stupid b_stard in this movie.Not good.

p-11.cAce
01-29-2007, 08:06 PM
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
Theodore Roosevelt Roosevelt Association (http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/quotes.htm)

ImpStarDuece
01-30-2007, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by georgeo76:
Social Darwinism is fascist, and it's conclusions are inevitable.

Tell me about it!

I'm only ever a Darwinist when I'm at parties as well.

joeap
01-30-2007, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by PFflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PFflyer:
I am an american, telling you out there that this is precisely why the rest of the world should fear the United States so much.

The USA is ground zero for "de-evolution", and it has reached a point here where indeed it has taken over the highest levels of our government.

This de-evolution is a plague, and should be fought and resisted by all the peoples of the world as such.

Do not imitate americans, long for their lifestyle, clothing, etc.. If there is anything that will be the end of the human race, this is it right here, please do not be a part of it.

THank you.

Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your response shows that you are part of the problem.
Great americans, don't run when there are problems in the country, they stay and fight for what is right to make America a better place, as they did in the Revolutionary War, as the North did in the Civil War to end slavery, as Martin Luther King did in his time to end bigotry, and as brave american journalists have done to rid the country of MCarthy's communist witch hunts, and the scoundrels of watergate. The list goes on and on.

A bad american, or any other closed-minded idiot, would not know or be aware of this history though, or the meaning of being an American and would tend to make un-intelligent remarks like yours, you should have been in the movie in question! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smart people know the meaning of sarcasm. I do agree with staying to fight the problem though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ploughman
01-30-2007, 04:07 AM
If it's satire it's too late.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/2/K/jesse_animated.gif

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 05:06 AM
Originally posted by PFflyer:

Your response shows that you are part of the problem.
Great americans, don't run when there are problems in the country, they stay and fight for what is right to make America a better place, as they did in the Revolutionary War, as the North did in the Civil War to end slavery, as Martin Luther King did in his time to end bigotry, and as brave american journalists have done to rid the country of MCarthy's communist witch hunts, and the scoundrels of watergate. The list goes on and on.

A bad american, or any other closed-minded idiot, would not know or be aware of this history though, or the meaning of being an American and would tend to make un-intelligent remarks like yours, you should have been in the movie in question!

Dear Mr. School teacher:

"America" did not exist before the American Revolution. "They" did not want to "make America a better place". For your information, men like John Hancock were perfectly happy until the Crown cut into their smuggling money.

It's funny to me as a Bostonian born and raised, the son of a History teacher, who could take you to his Dad's study and show you a powder horn on which one of my ancestors scratched a sketch of the battle of Breed's Hill (you know this as "bunker" hill if you know it at all), to be told by a know it all that deigns to 'warn' other to not becomne like Americans, that I need to learn some American History. Perhaps you'd like to sit on the bench and let me enlighten you?

The North did not fight the Civil war to end slavery, you misinformed dupe. The social, economic, political, and industrial ramifications of the 1860s both here in the USA and in Europe mean nothing to you, it was "North fights to end slavery". Do a Google serach. You might even find out what textiles had to do with it.

Thank God you at least have an inkling about Dr. King. You probably enjoy his birthday off but couldn't tell me what day he was shot

Your interpretation of American History is predictably biased by popularlist accounts and what you "feel" is correct. You're the type who learns these shocking 'truths' from films like this that are 'repressed', and suddenly the world makes sense to you and you are able to go Teach the Truth now

Learn what you're preaching about before the next time you feel you should deliver me a sermon

SeaFireLIV
01-30-2007, 05:06 AM
This film was pushed to the side because it hits upon an uncomfortable truth. People are being dumbed-down into stupidity. TV(with pointless shows), Adverts, News, Social changes, even food are shovelled at people in a desensitised formula. Few seem to mind, few seem to worry. People seem more upset about perceived racism from a stupid girl in a Big brother house than what might be happening in the middle east or even in their own backyard!

Those who do protest become so few in number they can be safely ignored.

The way it`s going, they`ll be able to release a nuke in some foreign country and most people won`t even lift their heads from their TV sets to see what the flash was.

RCAF_Irish_403
01-30-2007, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
This film was pushed to the side because it hits upon an uncomfortable truth. People are being dumbed-down into stupidity. TV(with pointless shows), Adverts, News, Social changes, even food are shovelled at people in a desensitised formula. Few seem to mind, few seem to worry. People seem more upset about perceived racism from a stupid girl in a Big brother house than what might be happening in the middle east or even in their own backyard!

Those who do protest become so few in number they can be safely ignored.

The way it`s going, they`ll be able to release a nuke in some foreign country and most people won`t even lift their heads from their TV sets to see what the flash was.

Right on the money!

The first minutes of the film makes this Good Liberal worried though....Judge could've done without the "Dumb people breeding faster than Smart people" gig.

However, having watched those clips it's pretty evident that this film is about the intellectual decay brought on by television and mass consumerism. The dumbing down of culture isn't just inconveniant or funny, it can be dangerous if our collective expectations fall to certain low.

p-11.cAce
01-30-2007, 06:51 AM
Learn what you're preaching about before the next time you feel you should deliver me a sermon
I know you are a long time forum poster and avid online ace (NOT being sarcastic) but when you fire off an opening salvo which many (including myself) feel is overly strident and closed minded you know you will get a strong response.
I love America, and I believe that what Roosevelt said is correct -

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
However for the past 6 years to do this very thing has often resulted in the response being exactly what your first post boils down to - well if you don't like it leave! You and I both know that it is far from that simple.

SeaFireLIV
01-30-2007, 07:27 AM
"Where`s your tattoo? Tattooo?"

I`m telling you they`re even today trying to get us to get used to the idea of a `tattoo` on all of us.

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Learn what you're preaching about before the next time you feel you should deliver me a sermon
I know you are a long time forum poster and avid online ace (NOT being sarcastic) but when you fire off an opening salvo which many (including myself) feel is overly strident and closed minded you know you will get a strong response.
I love America, and I believe that what Roosevelt said is correct -

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
However for the past 6 years to do this very thing has often resulted in the response being exactly what your first post boils down to - well if you don't like it leave! You and I both know that it is far from that simple. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are being critical of what I posted, but you are not looking at what I was repsonding to closely at all

Pfflyer's post is more than a message of "Well the US has done X Y and Z that I don't think is right"

He just told everyone that the US was a plague-nation, and that it's citizens were plague-bearers. he also just told the World that he was the one to open their niave eyes and see what he sees, because he sees the facts

Pardon, but I reserve the right to think that's a bunch of hooey on every level http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lucius_Esox
01-30-2007, 09:13 AM
Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!



Truth of the matter is you can't escape. No way. The power of the dollar and what that can do (good and bad) pervades most who live on this planets lives.

As has been pointed out in this thread it aint always a good influence either, because mostly profit in a financial not social sense is the main aim.

I don't hate profit but when it becomes the prime motivator, i.e excessive it seems to make people do/behave in bad ways.

Greed and might is right of course

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!



Truth of the matter is you can't escape. No way. The power of the dollar and what that can do (good and bad) pervades most who live on this planets lives.

As has been pointed out in this thread it aint always a good influence either, because mostly profit in a financial not social sense is the main aim.

I don't hate profit but when it becomes the prime motivator, i.e excessive it seems to make people do/behave in bad ways.

Greed and might is right of course </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taken out of context, almost anything I say or do can be judged and determined wrong

The post you've quoted me on is in reply to somebody who condemns the US as being a place that is bad for the world. How anyone with a shred of moral decency can continue to live in a country which is for them a subject of embarrassment and a source of ill-feeling is beyond me.

The problem I am referring to is not Mighty Money, it is how one can stomach residing in a place they consider a blight on the world

RCAF_Irish_403
01-30-2007, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!



Truth of the matter is you can't escape. No way. The power of the dollar and what that can do (good and bad) pervades most who live on this planets lives.

As has been pointed out in this thread it aint always a good influence either, because mostly profit in a financial not social sense is the main aim.

I don't hate profit but when it becomes the prime motivator, i.e excessive it seems to make people do/behave in bad ways.

Greed and might is right of course </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taken out of context, almost anything I say or do can be judged and determined wrong

The post you've quoted me on is in reply to somebody who condemns the US as being a place that is bad for the world. How anyone with a shred of moral decency can continue to live in a country which is for them a subject of embarrassment and a source of ill-feeling is beyond me.

The problem I am referring to is not Mighty Money, it is how one can stomach residing in a place they consider a blight on the world </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem with "America, Love It or Leave It" is that its just as intellectually lazy as "America, root of All Evil." Should critics just go away? Wouldn't that just leave us with a pretty boring, homogenous and stunted America? Besides, who has the money and resources to just up and leave even if they wanted to?

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!



Truth of the matter is you can't escape. No way. The power of the dollar and what that can do (good and bad) pervades most who live on this planets lives.

As has been pointed out in this thread it aint always a good influence either, because mostly profit in a financial not social sense is the main aim.

I don't hate profit but when it becomes the prime motivator, i.e excessive it seems to make people do/behave in bad ways.

Greed and might is right of course </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taken out of context, almost anything I say or do can be judged and determined wrong

The post you've quoted me on is in reply to somebody who condemns the US as being a place that is bad for the world. How anyone with a shred of moral decency can continue to live in a country which is for them a subject of embarrassment and a source of ill-feeling is beyond me.

The problem I am referring to is not Mighty Money, it is how one can stomach residing in a place they consider a blight on the world </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem with "America, Love It or Leave It" is that its just as intellectually lazy as "America, root of All Evil." Should critics just go away? Wouldn't that just leave us with a pretty boring, homogenous and stunted America? Besides, who has the money and resources to just up and leave even if they wanted to? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, I did not say "America, Love it or leave it". You and others are wildly understating my sentiments. I am not addressing the problem of not likeing how the US does things sp either get staying or leaving and deal with it.

I am addressing an individual who clearly states there is no margin and no help for the US. His standpoint is a superlative. Read the post he made. He gives nothing to work with, no redeeming facets or even hope of redemption. His message clearly says "beware, we are beyond hope, do no duplicate what we have wrought". To him, to read his post, there are two options, and nothing can be changed.

To that type of individual, I can see no reason for staying with the Lost Cause. He describes defeat and loss. He indicates no struggle; to him it is already over, and the pieces already put away. I on the other hand am not a doom n gloomer. I say phooey to his hooey. If the US is what he says, no morally conscious person should stay here. If that that is his USA, he has options to make his life what he wants it to be. He's free to go and find it. It can't be here, because he describes the game's over and we lost it. If he doesn't think the US can be redeemed or saved or changed, which is what he's saying when he says "don't become like us", he's saying it's all over, we just became the second coming of Rome after the fall.

"USA:Love it or leave it" is the mindset that what "the government" says is right, no question, if you don't like it, go someplace else


This is NOT my mindset, and I did not say that

RCAF_Irish_403
01-30-2007, 11:48 AM
Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!


So what does that mean?

p-11.cAce
01-30-2007, 11:55 AM
To that type of individual, I can see no reason for staying wit the Lost Cause. He describes defeat and loss. He indicates no struggle; to him it is already over, and the pieces already out away. I on the other hand am not a doom n gloomer. I say phooey to his hooey. If the US is what he says, no morally conscious person should stay here. If that that is his USA, he has options to make his life what he wants it to be. He's free to go and find it. It can't be here, because he describes the game's over and we lost it
I agree with him that the game is over and we lost it...at least for now. I believe there was a time when Eisenhower's prediction may have been avoided, but that time is now past. Events which are far larger than any of us have the ability to influence are occurring in our name. CNN this morning was all about Iran and it seems we have heard this record before. My moral conscience cries over what has been done in our name, and while I may technically have the "freedom", and financial means to do so I am unwilling to leave my family, friends, clients, or land. I do not dispute that your posts present your position with elegance and subtlety, but there is more to ones conscience than personal morality. A mother can love her murderous son despite her moral conviction that he should be jailed. I can love my country despite my moral conviction that my government is acting unjust.

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!


So what does that mean? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely what it says. If the ship has sunk, hit the rowboats

if you can;t see this difference between this and "love it or leave it", I will clarify:

There's more than two choices. There's a third option called "fix it"

The pessimists and doom and gloomers apparently think that's too hard

"no need" to be part of dumb eveil America is pretty self-descripive, and it's a far cry from "don't like it? get out" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RCAF_Irish_403
01-30-2007, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Have you heard? You aren't required to live in the USA. Hoo-ray! You can escape before it's too late! Pick a country you like, and go live there No need to be part of dumb ol' evil America. You don't like it here so please, understand you are free to go, you aren't under arrest. Spread your wings, baby, and chase that dream!


So what does that mean? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely what it says. If the ship has sunk, hit the rowboats

if you can;t see this difference between this and "love it or leave it", I will clarify:

There's more than two choices. There's a third option called "fix it"

The pessimists and doom and gloomers apparently think that's too hard

"no need" to be part of dumb eveil America is pretty self-descripive, and it's a far cry from "don't like it? get out" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then we agree

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To that type of individual, I can see no reason for staying wit the Lost Cause. He describes defeat and loss. He indicates no struggle; to him it is already over, and the pieces already out away. I on the other hand am not a doom n gloomer. I say phooey to his hooey. If the US is what he says, no morally conscious person should stay here. If that that is his USA, he has options to make his life what he wants it to be. He's free to go and find it. It can't be here, because he describes the game's over and we lost it
I agree with him that the game is over and we lost it...at least for now. I believe there was a time when Eisenhower's prediction may have been avoided, but that time is now past. Events which are far larger than any of us have the ability to influence are occurring in our name. CNN this morning was all about Iran and it seems we have heard this record before. My moral conscience cries over what has been done in our name, and while I may technically have the "freedom", and financial means to do so I am unwilling to leave my family, friends, clients, or land. I do not dispute that your posts present your position with elegance and subtlety, but there is more to ones conscience than personal morality. A mother can love her murderous son despite her moral conviction that he should be jailed. I can love my country despite my moral conviction that my government is acting unjust. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We we are partly arguing semantics

But I also beleive that a government's first job is not to be morally 'clean', it is to look after the country's best interests. We did morally reprehensible things in 1945. So did England, the USSR, Germany, Japan...times have changed and there are difficult challenges affecting us all. Abandoning morality would never be my advice; but I do suggest casting an eye on the morality questions of yesteryear. How did we deal with those problems? The country is different now, for one thing "instant morality" is possible with the avalanche of "news" shows we worship, amny of which have a political slant disguised as information. Weighing choices and consequences is our national business, but no rules say the outcome is going to be a happy one in every case. We're playing the hand we were dealt. No one can see all ends, and it's very likely that there is no "good guy" now, just like there wasn't one in 1945.

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 02:55 PM
Maybe this will help people understand what I mean here

When I was in High School, I went to a school run by the Christian Brothers. I had to take Religion classes, we talked about morality and divinity and humanity. Interesting books like "An ineffectual life of Jesus". Sounds anachronistic, right? They taught this book at Catholic school

I became a Peer Minister at school, ran retreats and whatnot for the freshmen. Maybe it was because I could see this iisue clearly, and I understood why we were asked so many hard morality questions and examined so many tough morality situations in religion class:

There's no Rule that says there's a Right and Wrong. A lot of times, there IS no correct answer, only lots of Wrong answers. How you choose which wrong answer is how to determine your morality. How you approach wanting to do Right and dealing with how to make decisions when you don't have the option of the perfect answer was the point of these classes.

Picking the "right thing to do" is easy when there is a Right thing to do. Where is the rule written that says the Right thing to do will always be a choice? A great quote from a Holy man:

"That which I would do, I cannot, and that which I would not do, I do constantly"

It would be great if Life was as easy as just ferreting out the correct answers for everyone and following through but unfortunately, life doesn't work that way

What's that got to do with this?

name a moral Government for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2007, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:

then we agree

It would appear so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

zoinks_
01-30-2007, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
name a moral Government for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gilligan's Island? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DuxCorvan
01-30-2007, 04:35 PM
Eh...?
http://i.somethingawful.com/fashion/streetstyle/01.jpg

BaldieJr
01-31-2007, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by lbhskier37:
Sounds like a movie based on the NOFX album War on Errorism. I definitly gotta see that!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

p-11.cAce
01-31-2007, 07:18 AM
There's no Rule that says there's a Right and Wrong. A lot of times, there IS no correct answer, only lots of Wrong answers. How you choose which wrong answer is how to determine your morality. How you approach wanting to do Right and dealing with how to make decisions when you don't have the option of the perfect answer was the point of these classes.
Nietzsche reviews this exact concept in his "Genealogy of Morals" - and comes to the conclusion, as you did, that from an objective standpoint there is no such thing as right or wrong. I find existentialism very attractive in many ways...and admire the incredible grasp of history, philosophy, & psychology that Nietzsche possessed. From that point of view the responsibility for our collective moral values falls squarely on our shoulders. The tension thus created is caused by disagreements within the collective.
I personally believe the war we are now engaged in is wrong. The collective society I was born into has decided, through a democratic process, that it is right (regardless of the polls now a majority endorsed this action and our elected representatives continue to do so either through action or inaction). I do not have enough power to affect the inertia of the collective decision regarding the morality of this action. This creates inner tension, and a certain sad frustration. I also have tension created by the fact that as a member of this collective I am supporting these activities with taxes and identified with them by nationality.
There are those who would say that I should then take up the fight, pack up and leave, or do affect some other action - but the effort of daily life, and the consequences of such action, outweigh my inner tension regarding the collective action.
Nietzsche stated that "If men really believed in God they would still burn heretics at the stake". I don't disagree. I guess if I really believed in my moral conscience I would pack up and leave.

Worf101
01-31-2007, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">based on

Nope based on a sci fi story from the 50's called The Marching Morons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
+1 Ya beat me to it ya Bastiche!!!!! Mumble Grumble... Where's my Batlef!!!

Da Worfster

XyZspineZyX
01-31-2007, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There's no Rule that says there's a Right and Wrong. A lot of times, there IS no correct answer, only lots of Wrong answers. How you choose which wrong answer is how to determine your morality. How you approach wanting to do Right and dealing with how to make decisions when you don't have the option of the perfect answer was the point of these classes.
Nietzsche reviews this exact concept in his "Genealogy of Morals" - and comes to the conclusion, as you did, that from an objective standpoint there is no such thing as right or wrong. I find existentialism very attractive in many ways...and admire the incredible grasp of history, philosophy, & psychology that Nietzsche possessed. From that point of view the responsibility for our collective moral values falls squarely on our shoulders. The tension thus created is caused by disagreements within the collective.
I personally believe the war we are now engaged in is wrong. The collective society I was born into has decided, through a democratic process, that it is right (regardless of the polls now a majority endorsed this action and our elected representatives continue to do so either through action or inaction). I do not have enough power to affect the inertia of the collective decision regarding the morality of this action. This creates inner tension, and a certain sad frustration. I also have tension created by the fact that as a member of this collective I am supporting these activities with taxes and identified with them by nationality.
There are those who would say that I should then take up the fight, pack up and leave, or do affect some other action - but the effort of daily life, and the consequences of such action, outweigh my inner tension regarding the collective action.
Nietzsche stated that "If men really believed in God they would still burn heretics at the stake". I don't disagree. I guess if I really believed in my moral conscience I would pack up and leave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nietzsche's full of it, sorry. Can't agree he had much of a grasp. He cubby-holed and rationalised. People don't fit into his little slots. Most pyschology seems to rely on people fitting into categories neatly, and that's why I think that particular 'science' is snake-oil sales

Take the burning heretics quote for example. Nietzche give a limited scope of possibilities there that's very much a product of his times- a limited viewpoint skewed by his personal theology. I can't take that stuff seriously. He and guys like Jung have ideas that sustain themselves only in their own ideal models. he gives two options for heresy- burn, or not burn. Kinda limiting. Sounds like a rulebook to me

Worf101
01-31-2007, 07:38 AM
"There's more than two choices. There's a third option called "fix it"

Now you're talkin'. Don't "wait on the world to change" go out and try to make it better. That's my preference... Talk less, do more!!!

Da Worfster

RCAF_Irish_403
01-31-2007, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There's no Rule that says there's a Right and Wrong. A lot of times, there IS no correct answer, only lots of Wrong answers. How you choose which wrong answer is how to determine your morality. How you approach wanting to do Right and dealing with how to make decisions when you don't have the option of the perfect answer was the point of these classes.
Nietzsche reviews this exact concept in his "Genealogy of Morals" - and comes to the conclusion, as you did, that from an objective standpoint there is no such thing as right or wrong. I find existentialism very attractive in many ways...and admire the incredible grasp of history, philosophy, & psychology that Nietzsche possessed. From that point of view the responsibility for our collective moral values falls squarely on our shoulders. The tension thus created is caused by disagreements within the collective.
I personally believe the war we are now engaged in is wrong. The collective society I was born into has decided, through a democratic process, that it is right (regardless of the polls now a majority endorsed this action and our elected representatives continue to do so either through action or inaction). I do not have enough power to affect the inertia of the collective decision regarding the morality of this action. This creates inner tension, and a certain sad frustration. I also have tension created by the fact that as a member of this collective I am supporting these activities with taxes and identified with them by nationality.
There are those who would say that I should then take up the fight, pack up and leave, or do affect some other action - but the effort of daily life, and the consequences of such action, outweigh my inner tension regarding the collective action.
Nietzsche stated that "If men really believed in God they would still burn heretics at the stake". I don't disagree. I guess if I really believed in my moral conscience I would pack up and leave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nietzsche's full of it, sorry. Can't agree he had much of a grasp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's strange because reading Nietzche is great for exercising your mind....you just can't take his views seriously, tho.

p-11.cAce
01-31-2007, 08:03 AM
I guess I need to point out that I'm the IT manager for a religiously affiliated non-profit social service agency - and my degree is in History with a minor in Philosophy. I get it from both ends all day long http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif There are none more computer illiterate than LSW's.

PBNA-Boosher
02-09-2007, 01:19 PM
What I can see of this movie points out a number of the things I see in my country, the United States, and hate about it. I'll admit that there are times when I'm ashamed of my country. I'm ashamed of big business just as often as I'm ashamed of Unions. I'm ashamed of our public school situation, ashamed of our lack of work-ethic at times.

But you will never EVER hear me say that I am giving up on my country. Yes, the USA is pretty ****ed up. So is every country in the world. Take a look at your own customs and wonder "Why in all hell do we actually do that?" Stop treating movies like this as a reason to bash America, or any other country for that matter, and use it for its intended purpose- to point out that something is wrong that needs to be corrected... and that won't happen by us just sitting around on a forum. Get out there, tutor someone! I open my dorm room at my college to any student that wants to review history with me so long as they notify me before hand. If my application gets through I'll be working at the writing center, helping kids write better essays. This summer I might even get a job giving tours at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. There are endless possibilities, but the best part is that all it takes is that ONE spark to ignite someone's imagination. Look at our own fascination with airplanes. We can't get enough of this stuff! Branch it out, inspire people to find something they love and they'll do it.

RCAF_Irish_403
02-09-2007, 02:48 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

i spend four hours a week helping 1st-4th graders learn how to read. These kids are more often than not dirt poor and come from less than ideal home environment. This is strictly volunteer work.

Easily one of the best decisions of my life was to get involved even though it can be emotionally taxing