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View Full Version : Bug in MG151/20 shells modelling



XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:08 AM
Edit:
Since Oleg is here, obviously in good mood ;-), I'll try to ask him again about this...

I report a minor but irritating bug.
According to Oleg's post MG151/20 fires: // APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG.

The problem is that in game animation of shells explosion does not correspond to their type.
These picture were taken flying in arcade mode, where each arrow corresponds to a shell fragment.

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~tipoman/grab0000.jpg


This is probably the HE round effect (slight explosion with fragments) - absolutely correct...

But here is the problem:
http://galileo.spaceports.com/~tipoman/grab0002.jpg


This, according to the animation effect should be an MG shell i.e higher TNT load, higher explosion, but as you can see THERE ARE NO SHELL FRAGMENTS. Looks like the shell inflicts a damage of a simple AP round.

I've tested many other cannons (VYa, ShVAK, MK-108,NS-37) and they all seem correct.
MK-108 MG shell for example also causes a similar explosion animation effect but it is accompanied with a lot of fragments.
Furthermore the sequence of shells is not APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG ! It looks like the MG shells (or HE shells) are simply missing since now MG151 fires much more AP shells..


This really can be annoying when you place a good salvo of shells on a wing of some aircraft, see huge explosions , but when you switch to externals you see the wing completely intact, since the damage effect of a MG round is simulated as an AP round.

Edited:
Trying another links...
Edited:
This has nothing to do with bias, overmodelling or undermodelling a plane. It's simply irritating to know that we have accurate modelling of different kind of shells but their implementation in MG151-20 is mistaken...



Message Edited on 07/14/03Ô 10:48AM by TipoMan

Message Edited on 11/06/0308:53AM by TipoMan

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:08 AM
Edit:
Since Oleg is here, obviously in good mood ;-), I'll try to ask him again about this...

I report a minor but irritating bug.
According to Oleg's post MG151/20 fires: // APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG.

The problem is that in game animation of shells explosion does not correspond to their type.
These picture were taken flying in arcade mode, where each arrow corresponds to a shell fragment.

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~tipoman/grab0000.jpg


This is probably the HE round effect (slight explosion with fragments) - absolutely correct...

But here is the problem:
http://galileo.spaceports.com/~tipoman/grab0002.jpg


This, according to the animation effect should be an MG shell i.e higher TNT load, higher explosion, but as you can see THERE ARE NO SHELL FRAGMENTS. Looks like the shell inflicts a damage of a simple AP round.

I've tested many other cannons (VYa, ShVAK, MK-108,NS-37) and they all seem correct.
MK-108 MG shell for example also causes a similar explosion animation effect but it is accompanied with a lot of fragments.
Furthermore the sequence of shells is not APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG ! It looks like the MG shells (or HE shells) are simply missing since now MG151 fires much more AP shells..


This really can be annoying when you place a good salvo of shells on a wing of some aircraft, see huge explosions , but when you switch to externals you see the wing completely intact, since the damage effect of a MG round is simulated as an AP round.

Edited:
Trying another links...
Edited:
This has nothing to do with bias, overmodelling or undermodelling a plane. It's simply irritating to know that we have accurate modelling of different kind of shells but their implementation in MG151-20 is mistaken...



Message Edited on 07/14/03Ô 10:48AM by TipoMan

Message Edited on 11/06/0308:53AM by TipoMan

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:23 AM
the pictures dont work m8

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:29 AM
http://tipoman.tripod.com/grab0000.jpg

and

http://tipoman.tripod.com/grab0002.jpg





Message Edited on 07/14/0304:30AM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 12:20 PM
certainly looks like you are right about the fragments.. this really needs to be fixed

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 12:25 PM
Hmmm, it is certainly good to mention this, however, we will know better after the patch.

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XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 01:08 PM
Interesting. Let's wait for the patch. If it's still weak then, we can dig this one out /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 01:14 PM
20mm have some very nice power in the latest patches.

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 01:24 PM
And these patches are avaible to those with good connections, I suppose /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 02:35 PM
Willey wrote:
- Interesting. Let's wait for the patch. If it's still
- weak then, we can dig this one out

Well..
From my experience in this community I've been always waiting for a patch or/and update or/and add-on.
Usually when a bug was reported in this forum there always came some guy with the :
"Wait till patch 2.67.89 is released, we'll discuss it then!"...and ofcourse patch 2.67.89 didn't fix that problem , so the actual argument after 1 month was :
"Wait till patch 2.67.89.2 is released, we'll discuss it then!"

:-)

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:54 AM
bump...

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 10:17 AM
TipoMan wrote:

- This is probably the HE round effect (slight
- explosion with fragments) - absolutely correct...
-
- But here is the problem:
<img
- src="http://galileo.spaceports.com/~tipoman/grab00
- 02.jpg">
-
-
- This, according to the animation effect should be an
- MG shell i.e higher TNT load, higher explosion, but
- as you can see THERE ARE NO SHELL FRAGMENTS. Looks
- like the shell inflicts a damage of a simple AP
- round.

The Minengescho├č round is a thin walled HE-packed grenade. It has very poor fragmentary damage and relies on blast and overpressure to damage targets.

Theory: There are no secondary arrows because there are no fragments simulated from the blast of a Minengescho├č round. The damage from blast is not simulated by arrows but is represented by the blast only.

There's no problem that I see but I defer to those with a greater inner knowledge of the sim.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 11:11 AM
hobnail wrote:
- The Minengescho├č round is a thin walled HE-packed
- grenade. It has very poor fragmentary damage and
- relies on blast and overpressure to damage targets.
-
- Theory: There are no secondary arrows because there
- are no fragments simulated from the blast of a
- Minengescho├č round. The damage from blast is not
- simulated by arrows but is represented by the blast
- only.

Well maybe you are right, but tha MG shell of an MK-108 produces a lot of arrows, ie fragments. Furthermore concerning the theory the explosion of a MG roung should cause fragments! It's true that it will do less fragmentary damage than a HE roung but tha fragments are still there. The body of a MG shell still weights about 50-60 grams, which when exploded should cause fragments. Now even the 12,7mm HE round causes fragments (its body weights about 30grams i.e half the weigth of a 20mm MG shell).

Test the results of MG roung hits on wings, you will see that they cause much les damage than HE rounds, I don't think this is correct...

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 01:42 PM
Almost like the hits are APIT's?


Neal

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 03:45 PM
cc, MG ammo doesnt have fragments, well, could have but so tiny ones, no much damage by those. butt that Mg round really seems to make far less damage when comparing to other rounds. that what makes me wonder. and it is not TNT what those rounds have in, i think its something like H4a1 stuff, far better than TNT.

i would want incendiary ammo to have some effect on targets too, to ignite fuel tanks, now it seems almost impossible, engine hits are almost only case when can make enemy AC burn.

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:55 PM
I had been wondering about type of shell sometime since I attacked light tanks in behind and able to destroy it. Also more better result is do it in high angle. I think main cause of destroy is thin armor on top of engine bay and top of turrel. I had heard that men manned 50.cal MG in high level building can destroy tank if aim at top of turrel. Of course, We would like hear oleg's comment on type ammo. Maybe, we should search for old messages about ammo type to see if Oleg already comment on it.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 11:01 PM
it depends what tank ur firing at, some have better top armor etc, and so it with front armor, side armor too, light tanks could be destroyed by shooting it sides.