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PhantomKira
12-12-2010, 12:41 PM
Situation:

Campaign - Fighter South
Aircraft - Fw190A4, A8, D9
Rank - Oberst

Problem:

AI second flight will not join up. 1st and 2nd flights will join on each other, and fly together fairly well, but an eight aircraft formation won't happen because #5 leads his element off on his own, regardless of what I ask him to do (break, Rejoin, etc). This has had a few (very few) good points, #2 flight did get two on my last mission that my guys wouldn't have gotten as they were already in the landing pattern (with brains turned off).

I attempted to follow the guide for AI management that's floating around this forum somewhere or other in the stickies, to some success - I have 30 kills, and wingmen with 37, 34, 25, and 15 highest respectively. It's great that I'm keeping these simguys alive, but it'd be a lot easier if I tackled a large formation with eight aircraft instead of four.

Any ideas why they won't join up, and any thoughts as to how to get them to do so?

Thanks all.

As a side note, I find it very interesting how quickly speed can build up in the Fw-190. During one attack on bombers during the last flight, I noticed my aircraft shaking, and checked the airspeed indicator, to find it pegged against the 750kmh mark (no TrackIR yet, my scan stinks). I've recently learned the trim settings needed for high speed flight and landing with neutral stick on the Fw-190A4, and have found pre setting for the required speed to be quite useful. Instead of "trimming off" the heavy stick, I "fly on" a light stick. It works quite well, especially with that wonderful AOA trim gauge in the FW (left panel, under your left arm).

Ba5tard5word
12-12-2010, 01:04 PM
Should do the break/rejoin/cover me thing at the very start of the mission before they start going into their own routine. Also it kind of depends on if their waypoints line up with yours and whether you're following your own waypoints.

Sometimes telling them to rejoin and cover you works, sometimes not, it's a real weakpoint in the AI coding.

PhantomKira
12-12-2010, 07:59 PM
Well it works. Sorta. Heh. It'll keep their flight nearby, but then, when a few enemy show up, they whittle it down, then all go after the same target. And we know what happens then! "ARRRHHHH" (x5 or 6 or so, accompanied by a ginormous ball of fire as they all collide with one another.) Yep.

Well, sometimes, anyway. As you said, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Thanks for the reply, it's better than nothing and when it works, the results speak for themselves.

Through micromanaging I can sometimes get them to break off a mass attack. (Second Flight, Loiter Here [last waypont], First Flight or wingman attack my target). But at least they're with me now so I can make the decision in the first place.

DKoor
12-13-2010, 06:20 AM
Even tho they are sometimes ******ed, they are more or less godlike compared to average human Joe playing this game... who never ever covers his ai buddies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif .

Joke aside, Ai is all about its routines, if you set them up properly before engagement I think they will do good job unless jumped or overpowered or something like that.
Also when you do ground attack missions, you always need to specify the targets some time before they enter final run, for instance if you wanna hit flak they wont be able so before you enter (and them too) the range of attack... and then if you don't order it very quickly they will likely miss depending on aircraft type, ordnance and other setup.

Same with A2A actions... if you order your wingie to cover you, and he does so, then if someone jumps you and you think you have few seconds of your life left, your ai buddy may just save you... happened to me a lot of times.
Sometimes I wasn't even aware of enemy presence at all, he quietly closed in on me but my trigger happy ai buddy raked him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Also some advice... if you pursue enemy ai and your side is clear winner, don't be jumpy to join the pursuers and make collision possible, instead wait your opportunity on your flights tail, when they catch E/A and make their passes, if E/A still flies then you get a pass on him.
I can't recall just how many times I died in collisions if I don't watch my buddies.

For me best orders are "attack fighters" or bombers, "cover me"... but they work as predicted only when your flight is still cohesive i.e. prior to the fight.
Once the fights starts, issuing further orders in hectic melee sometimes actually leads to losing the battle... it's all about setup prior to that.

Ba5tard5word
12-13-2010, 10:07 AM
Also padlock and "attack my target" (after you padlock a plane or ground target) is supposed to work best for telling them to attack a specific target. I think the game was set up to depend too much on padlock back when nobody had TIR. I never use padlock because there's no use for it with TIR.

PhantomKira
12-13-2010, 01:22 PM
True about the average human! I've started (just started) to maintain the level of situational awareness required to prevent such things. Right now, I've lost exactly one person, (wounded, in hospital) and maybe ten airplanes, if that in 34 missions. Admittedly, I'm "cheating", doing things like HQ: "Attack that airfield" Oberst: "F U!", and simply passing the waypoint at altitude. I know full well the AI aren't smart enough to survive concentrated AAA. I also do things like flying on my side of the lines parallel to waypoints instead of following them over an enemy city. Get in, do your business, and get out is my new philosophy, and it seems to be working quite well.

In the beginning, however, it was a different story. I'd loose so many airplanes, the warning would come up about "Your squadron has only X airplanes left!". Of course, no AI lived long enough for me to know its name. Now, I have five Majors and only one Lieutenant, yet to be promoted.

I've also altered my approach strategy considerably, turning away from the first cruise waypoint and gaining altitude before turning back into the engagement zone.

It is nice to avoid the barrel roll over the target with bomb release, isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif It seems that the window for ordering ground attacks is a very small one and you have to time the order just right, or else.

One of the reasons my wingies have such high scores (well, a few, anyway) is that I've gone from active involvement in fights to overseer/manager. I tell my guys to attack, then circle over the fight, looking for someone in trouble, and dive in to protect them; then it's back up on the perch. Front aspect attacks are something I'm beginning to get the hang of, too.

Those are the orders I've used too. "Cover Me" for flight 2 as Ba5tard5word pointed out, keeps them with me, then, depending on the target makeup, either attack "All", "Fighters" or "Bombers", though I usually send flight 2 after the fighters.

Padlock Attack Target was in the recommended use stuff from that guide, but I find that unless there are only a few targets, it's better just to use "Attack All". It's too easy for someone to get missed and zip in on your tail otherwise.

TIR, TIR... Christmas is coming! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif