PDA

View Full Version : This could be very promising for flight sims



Alexi_Alx_Anova
03-08-2005, 01:45 AM
Provided they're not too expensive or generate too much heat/noise, this idea sounds fabulous and quite applicable to the physics-rich nature of flight sims.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21648

http://www.ageia.com/

[EDIT]
Just found this interview;

http://www.gamers-depot.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm

Alexi_Alx_Anova
03-08-2005, 01:45 AM
Provided they're not too expensive or generate too much heat/noise, this idea sounds fabulous and quite applicable to the physics-rich nature of flight sims.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21648

http://www.ageia.com/

[EDIT]
Just found this interview;

http://www.gamers-depot.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm

HotelBushranger
03-08-2005, 01:59 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Wow! Looks good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I wonder how much it will cost though... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-08-2005, 03:29 AM
Once it becomes part of the gaming culture, they will charge as much as video cards. If its as powerful as they say, the limits to capabilities would be the Developer's and Gamers' own imagination limitations. For example, I can see having HyperUltra GPU and SuperNew PPU but the flight sim Devs and their simmers still have nothing more than the old little white "flak puff" Flight Sim Clouds. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ElAurens
03-08-2005, 05:27 AM
Hmmmm, an outboard CPU really.

Kinda makes you wonder about all this emphasis on making every componenet smaller.....

LEXX_Luthor
03-08-2005, 06:53 AM
Dunno, they seem to be stuck at getting smaller so they can get higher speeds. What's funny is they all Boast about dual core...but that will only double the speed theoretically, much less in reality. To get faster speeds, they must add more cores. To double the speed again (in theory) they need 4 cores, then 8 cores...etc...they are stuck.

It can help though, dumping FM calculations into one core, AI calculations into another, surface unit battlefield combat into another core, while a 4th core runs Dymanmic Mission Builder which during the game creates new missions based upon current battlefield situation and damage/losses from previous missions and Features re~arm and re~fuel for both Player and AI aircraft and...

...I got carried away again, sorry. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
03-08-2005, 07:04 AM
Hmmm that is interesting........

DuxCorvan
03-08-2005, 07:32 AM
Since many people could find its purpose rather obscure, and companies could find it comercially hard to introduce as a stand-alone device, I see not much future for it unless CPU or video card manufacturers take the challenge of merge these devices with their products to have self-contained multipurpose processors (the same way math co-processors were built-in in CPUs years ago). I think.

LEXX_Luthor
03-08-2005, 07:47 AM
Most (real life) computer users find gaming grafix cards "obscure." These are the world's Normal People doing everyday stuff only and doing it with the mass produced and highly profitable but bottom performance integrated motherboard grafix. I was one of these normal people until I got the FB and for the first time needed obscure grafix gaming hardware to run FB properly (I started with Trident integrated motherboard grafix). Thanks to Oleg, I am now most Abnormal.

Gamers will flock to UltraPro PPU like rich fattened sheep herded to slaughter because gaming physics is not obscure to them, and the PPU makers' slaughterhouse prices will reflect this.

Beirut
03-08-2005, 07:57 AM
Well, we can just wait for the ATI XT1000Pro Platinum with 1024 megs of RAM set up for DX10 with a an onboard PPU.

That should make BOB fun to fly! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Obi_Kwiet
03-08-2005, 08:23 AM
Mwahaha! Another hunk of silicon to brag over and overclock!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

stubby
03-08-2005, 09:11 AM
It's cool but I'm affraid it will be a novelity. The only way to force this upon the frugal masses would be for the game makers to make their games require the physics card as requirment like DirectX or a GPU. The only other alternative which I don't see happening, would be for the game makers to build in scalability such that folks with the physics card would take full advantage of its bells and whistles while folks without would miss cool stuff mentioned in the chips white papers.

To be honest, the long term evolution of gaming rigs will lie in what already exists in data farms - true hyperthreaded technology like Unix minis running Solaris OS. Three or Four moderate CPUs on a motherboard that when working together in parallel could run Il2 Pacific Fighters with true physics, dynamic weather. complex war engine, etc.. at 100+ fps while tracking hundreds of planes. As long as gaming machines are a crafted with single CPU and GPU, growth of the genra will be minimal.

Alexi_Alx_Anova
03-08-2005, 11:02 AM
I agree that with both Intel & AMD heading for dual core CPUs before the end of this year, the same effects could be obtained by partitioning your program's physics to one core. In fact, the decreased latencies would make this much quicker than an add-in board. But which will be cheaper over the next two years? A new dual core CPU or an PPU add-in?

crazyivan1970
03-08-2005, 11:09 AM
Very cool Stuff, thanks for sharing.

fordfan25
03-08-2005, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexi_Alx_Anova:
Provided they're not too expensive or generate too much heat/noise, this idea sounds fabulous and quite applicable to the physics-rich nature of flight sims.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21648

http://www.ageia.com/

[EDIT]
Just found this interview;

http://www.gamers-depot.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


o boy yet another componet ill have to buy just to play a frign game. YA 4 ME!!!! lol

EnGaurde
03-08-2005, 01:40 PM
if it gives me the difference between the 2mb S3 video card i used to use, and the original 3dfx voodoo, ill certainly find money to buy it.

IF.... it works like the snake oil salesmen say it will? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

imagine the finer points of energy capable in every object modelled in the game.

imagine clouds / bullet trails / ground mist / fog swirling around your aircraft as you fly thru them.

imagine realistically tumbling bombs en route to desctruction.

imagine aircraft that dont simply explode in every collision... you can ride that b24 back to base in your now bulletless and utterly ineffectual ki43.

guns can burn out.

dear god if it is what they say it is, this is just too big to be ignored http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

whats our options.... dual core cpus may be fine, but is dual core blah a big enough leap to inject new life into everything?

Troll2k
03-08-2005, 02:48 PM
Ubisoft and Ageia.

From the Ageia website:

http://www.ageia.com/pr_03082005b.html

Tully__
03-08-2005, 04:27 PM
The interview mentions that GPU's are easy to sell using side by side screenshots as a marketing aid. I think that PPU's will need side by side game video captures (complete with the original framerates).

This technology will make scripted explosions a thing of the past if it takes off. Events like landslides, collapsing buildings, floods, vehicle crashes etc will all be able to be simulated real time rather than scripted as they usually are now. DM's will be revolutionised.

The reduced physics load on the CPU should make many more CPU cycles available for AI engines. This will allow some improvement of AI routines, but not as much as might at first be expected. The increased complexity of the environment will soak up most of that. In flight sims however the AI may be able to improve a lot as there isn't much interaction between aircraft and terrain.

It occurs to me that dynamic weather should be easier to manage with this technology too.

Speedfellow
03-08-2005, 04:47 PM
Hell if it works who cares about size or format bring it on !!

Beirut
03-08-2005, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexi_Alx_Anova:
I agree that with both Intel & AMD heading for dual core CPUs before the end of this year... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So we'll be able to have dual AMD64 FX-55s with dual SLI 6800 video cards?

I'm selling the furniture and the dog and gettin' me one o' those.

Leningrad with perfect settings and 100+ planes and a full blown ground war underneath.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

EnGaurde
03-08-2005, 05:28 PM
someone get on the blower to Olegs PR person and gee em up on whats happening with this as yet vapourware PPU (seeing its in junction with UbiSoft and hes all about physics), and its intended application to the BoB sim.

id do it myself, but i doubt i have any pull in those circles http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

EnGaurde
03-08-2005, 05:46 PM
like stubby said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As long as gaming machines are a crafted with single CPU and GPU, growth of the genra will be minimal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

id say wed all be happy if we had mil-spec software running on our servers. I read many whines on here that seems to me that individuals expect this.

what we need is hardware, capable of giving us physics and not relying on developers inventing software tricks to emulate physics. What happens, is the endless screams about how my sim bullets dont reflect my own obvious experiences with WW2 era german 30mm and 20mm cannon etc etc.

No software comlpexity, relatively speaking, would hopefully free up testing and bug rid time for more content.

in a perfect world, anyway.

i dont see how we cant need this, frankly. Its just so short sighted to NOT push this, if we want the real world we think of when it comes to sims.

Day-amn, i WOULD pay HUNDREDS (low, of course) of $$ to get my hands on a PF that had been built by a truly huge team of devs working to manufacturer data, an industry record-setting testing schedule, and a rock solid clear as crystal set of design aims not influenced by forum "experts" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif all wrapped around a hardware level dedicated physics engine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

if PF had a base of this PPu and its reported use?

yeah.

*smacks lips and applies for second credit card*

BaldieJr
03-08-2005, 09:40 PM
Two words for ya: 3d porn.

JR_Greenhorn
03-08-2005, 10:09 PM
And now a word from the 2+2=5 Department:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
This technology will make scripted explosions a thing of the past if it takes off. Events like...vehicle crashes etc will all be able to be simulated real time rather than scripted as they usually are now. DM's will be revolutionised. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm, bearing in mind the above-mentioned partenership with Ubisoft, you don't suppose that Oleg's screenshots of the modelling of the internal structure of airframes has anything to do with all this?

If I'm understanding all this correctly, the PPU would allow much more accurate modelling of the fragments of HE rounds exploding--including their effects, provided the aircraft's internal structure were modelled.

Someone more knowledgeable please confirm; Is this a possibility?

Tully__
03-08-2005, 10:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
And now a word from the 2+2=5 Department:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
...stuff... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm, bearing in mind the above-mentioned partenership with Ubisoft, you don't suppose that Oleg's screenshots of the modelling of the internal structure of airframes has anything to do with all this?

If I'm understanding all this correctly, the PPU would allow much more accurate modelling of the fragments of HE rounds exploding--including their effects, provided the aircraft's internal structure were modelled.

Someone more knowledgeable please confirm; Is this a possibility? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Something like that... at its best it would even allow single objects to be bent and twisted real time in the game instead of replacing an untouched item with a prebuilt damaged one. In a flight sim it may even allow (depending on speed and PPU RAM) modelling of the aerodynamic effects of the damage realtime. It's going to take some development of both the hardware and the associated drivers & games/sims before it gets that advanced though. It appears at this stage to be aimed at simpler situations encountered in fps games (you shoot a house with a tank gun and the damage is based on where you hit, not scripted. Bomb craters can exist. That sort of thing...).

Badsight.
03-08-2005, 10:28 PM
this promises just what we are after

sounds too good to be true

if this delivers , it means great things for future games for sure

EnGaurde
03-08-2005, 10:47 PM
now all the card has to do, is actually work ( and be implemented ) like the blurb claims.

meaning, i want the ****ed thing to make a difference, not be just a techhead wow-its-0.000043887652229387252-seconds-faster-than-NOT-using-the-card situation.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

JunkoIfurita
03-08-2005, 11:11 PM
So then: Two things - it's all in the hands of

a) The **** thing actually being what it appears to be (none of that eDimensional '3D' glasses stuff)

b) Developers who are willing to code for a piece of hardware that's not going to be in the price range of many people for a long time yet. (Put it on par with, say, the 6800. I've been saving spare cash for 5 months and I'm only halfway there).

But if this meant Oleg & co. taking the time out to program the real physics of gas (clould) and liquid convection into the BoB engine, then I'd commit to getting one tomorrow. I'd have to sell my soul to the devil (John Howard), but I'd get the cash somehow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

And just think, in 2010, when we see then next gen Maddox Pacific sim, there WILL be 50-foot storm waves washing over the decks of the wildly careening, buttoned down carriers (and darn it, the weather was so stable when I took off half an hour ago...where did that storm front roll in from?), making it **** near impossible to trap.

Hell, why not model a hurricane? I mean typhoon. Darn it, isn't there ANY abnormally large storm pattern that wasn't once a British warplane?

----

Old_Canuck
03-09-2005, 12:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Two words for ya: 3d porn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh .. I think that's 3 words but it DID set my single brain cell to sparkin'

Alexi_Alx_Anova
03-09-2005, 01:14 AM
Yet more news and interviews about this new tech.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/08/news_6119895.html

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/08/news_6119896.html

[EDIT]
Yet another one.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21681

Potatodip
03-09-2005, 07:54 AM
hmmm overstressing a plane...rivets breaking off.....metal starts to twist, old scars and bumbs on the fuselage, 3d rendered parts breaking off your plane, eatch drop of Oil is random in the windscreen. oooooh....coool...metal fatiqe fully modeld and shown......Just have to sell the house to get all that......but looks promising, throw in a pare of 3d glasses and you would have virtual reality that scares the hoots of you

TPN_Cephas
03-09-2005, 09:05 AM
This sounds great and is very exciting but....

Game development has already become an incredibly labor intensive task to reach the level of realism we curently enjoy. The man hours required to tweak a complex game like a flight sim for a niche market is one of the key factors leading to the downturn in flight sims. Now while we have an amazingly broad and enjoyable game in Il2, imagine how much more time it would take to develop a game when you try to make it so that every pice of every model is able to interact with each other. You just upped the time required to produce a single model by a factor of at least 5 I would imagine. Il2 has already taken many years to reach the level it is at now and the engine is ready to be retired. Publishers will not fund a game in development for 10 (or even 4) years. If you can not bring money in until you have a finished product developers can not afford to make a game and sell it directly without publishers.

Taking this into account, I see this technology most likely not making games with incredibly intricate modeling of physics, i.e. every stringer in a wing modeled for damage effects, but rather a more accurate representation of current effects like an entire wing or wingtip being lost.

About 5 years ago I was thinking that it would be logical for a new sort of company to arise that specializes in making highly accurate 3d models and then licensing them (hopefully affordably) to game developers to be included in games, therefore drastically reducing game development times. This has already started to become a reality. If developers could focus on game engine optimization and physics and then add some pre-made planes as needed they could reduce those development times and be more profitable (hopefully).

I also imagine that more highly developed physics might return the flight sim genre back to the days of the specialized sim that focuses on a single aircraft to achieve higher fidelity. The current trend of multi-plane sims is, in my opinion, very taxing on the developers and causing many problems due to the complexity involved (especially in games like LOMAC)

My two cents.....

Alexi_Alx_Anova
03-09-2005, 10:27 AM
You have a valid point Cephas and I think the enthusiastic and detailed imaginings of some of the posts here are just that... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Time will tell who designs software that takes advantage of the PPU and how extensively they use it, but it looks like the company is already mindful of this.

"NovodeX SDK, a leading software and hardware physics engine, Novodex Rocket a stand alone application that allows you to load and physically simulate a scene, plug-ins to the standard 3D modeling tools, Microsoft XNA, and more specialty tools that will allow for game developers to add physics content at a click of a button that will be announced soon."

RE: XNA, see; http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21659

If it's implemented intelligently, it could in fact free up development time by releaving the designers of nearly all physics programming. Just a 50% increase in model complexity coupled with real-time physics behaviour would be fabulous.

EnGaurde
03-09-2005, 08:41 PM
Fabulous?

Yes darling, simply faaaaabulous.

*sits hand on hip...*

CadMan_99
06-27-2006, 07:01 PM
AGEIA Inks Publisher-Wide Agreement with Major Russian Publisher 1C Company

http://ageia.vnewscenter.com/press.jsp?id=1151323090169

Flying_Nutcase
06-28-2006, 02:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CadMan_99:
AGEIA Inks Publisher-Wide Agreement with Major Russian Publisher 1C Company

http://ageia.vnewscenter.com/press.jsp?id=1151323090169 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Deep breath, cross fingers.

thx for posting.

sg1_gunkan
06-28-2006, 04:21 AM
http://int.games.1c.ru/
The information is too in the 1c home page.

Here there is a video of something like "a plane" crashing:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H9O0ahYjls4&search=ageia

Just imagine something like this in the hands of magic Oleg... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif AGEIA must pay to Oleg for using it! He will make the card famous!!!

Bearcat99
06-28-2006, 06:04 AM
Ooooooooooooooooooooo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV
06-28-2006, 07:42 AM
We`ll see. But I always find that things like this promises wonders, but the reality is always much more muted.

If everything had happened that`d been promised 5 years ago, we would`ve had computer run homes, cars that drove themselves and holographic 3D visual games by now...

But nope, all the advances are almost unnoticable when you switch your PC moniter on...

smokincrater
06-28-2006, 11:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:
I'd have to sell my soul to the devil (John Howard), but I'd get the cash somehow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

---- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh well the goverment is not interested in buying stuff,just selling and by the way I`m not the devil! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif