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View Full Version : Beatiful colour film of Spitfire V's and IX's in the Med, 20mm Hispano..



Xiolablu3
06-30-2008, 10:02 AM
Just found this and though some would like it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPSyiBTPYgY&feature=related

NMotice how there is no muzzle flash from the 20mm as its firing, that really need to be corrected in IL2 where we see flames. There is just puff of smoke...

PLus Lancs and B17's after the Spits on this clip..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgVcTnAjpTg

Wildnoob
06-30-2008, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
NMotice how there is no muzzle flash from the 20mm as its firing, that really need to be corrected in IL2 where we see flames. There is just puff of smoke...

it's something that I think already a long time.

in some guns I see the fire from the barrel, while in others not. I know there's a device used to cut the flash called "cut fire".

but I are in doubth about it. for example, in LOMAC the gun flash don't appear, but I already see SU-27 footage where it fire's the 30 mm GSH-30 cannon and there's a clear flash in the barrel.

here it is :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFYSPG20R90

1 : 29 - 1 : 32

like I've saied above, I are in doubth about this. if someone could explain I would be glad.

DKoor
06-30-2008, 11:02 AM
Whow... nice video, certainly one of the best I saw on Spits.

Bewolf
06-30-2008, 11:15 AM
Films from that era are of very low quality compared to modern day films and cameras. A lot of the light spectrum was not captured propperly. Not that I want to say there were huge muszzle flashes...in fact, I have no idea.
But, keep the limitations of films back then in mind.

Wildnoob
06-30-2008, 11:57 AM
Bewolf, I think the film quality depends.

I already watch a lot color films from 1930's and 1940's and their quality was excellent. I higly doubth if a viewer can tell the difference of a 1940 color film to a 1970 for example.

a good footage depends from a lot of factors, such as ligth conditions.

but that's just my view.

Xiolablu3
06-30-2008, 12:09 PM
The Muzzle flash has already been toned down from ealrier IL2 patches.

I couldnt find any footage of the old IL2 muzzle flash but I certainly remmeber seeing it recently and thinking its been toned down for the better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz0_nee2sl0

Kurfurst__
06-30-2008, 12:52 PM
You only rarely see muzzle flashes on film - the reason being the flash rarely synchronizes with the camera itself, which goes at ca 25frames/sec, and the camare may well 'miss' the flash.

I recall the werkfilm of 'Scarface', they had to specially syncronize the cameras to get nice and lots of muzzle flashes after some Latino types meet Tony`s lil` friend. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wildnoob
06-30-2008, 01:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKRGDCR28g0

it's a modern footage, and still there's not flash on the barrel.

PS : at least for me.

PanzerAce
06-30-2008, 07:43 PM
There are going to be three things that affect if flames come out the muzzle, and a fourth that affects if it is captured on camera.

First: Barrel length. The longer the barrel, the less chance there is for the powder to not completely burn. For example, with that A-10, I don't know exactly, but i would guess that nothing appeared on film simply because there was no fire left.

Second: Powder type. The type of powder used is also going to change the chance that the flame exits the muzzle. Generally, loads are formulated to compromise muzzle velocity with visible report.

Third: Flash suppression. (Wildnoob, I think this is what you were referring to). On longarms, you can attach a muzzle device designed to allow the powder to continue burning, but to restrict it to a certain area, so that little to none of the flame exits the area immediately in front of the barrel.

Fourth, and this only applies to getting it on camera: As mentioned earlier, frame rates vs. trigger control. It could simply be that the flame isn't on film because b/w frames it appeared and then disappeared already. I'll see if I can find some pictures showing just how short a time that the flame appears in...

PanzerAce
06-30-2008, 07:57 PM
Ok, here we go:

but first: another comment. The third item that I mentioned (flash suppression), doesn't really matter for aircraft, since AFAIK, next to no aircraft mount them


Ok, two examples. The first is a picture of my housemate firing an AK-47 with an AK-74 style brake (which INCREASES the visible signature). The camera took all of the frames in ~1/2 of a second.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8514/dsc01956bu5.jpg

As you can see, b/w the second and third frames, the flame has already happened and gone (yes, I know it flames, if you pay attention live, you can see it). Bear in mind, this frames are about .03 seconds apart. Yet the flame still did not appear on camera. (Side note, fourth frame you can see the bolt carrier fully recoiled, extracting the fired case, which you can see in the air in the sixth frame).


Now, to show the other side. This is an image of a shotgun being fired, same camera settings as the AK:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8562/dsc01965wz9.jpg

As you can see, VERY obvious flame. But on the other hand, in the very next frame, you can see that most of the smoke has already dissipated. It took about 20 tries before we managed to catch the muzzle blast.

Here is another image, same shotgun and loading, with the flame front having exited the muzzle b/w the...5th and 6th frames:

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7331/dsc01971vm3.jpg

Bear in mind now, these pictures are with modern cameras, running about the same, or more, FPS that old video cameras would have been running.