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Arant1r
12-27-2010, 10:41 PM
pros and cons of M&M so far/what do most players not like about M&M6.

Well,after looking at different forum topics,I've came to a conclusion(and so did lots of other M&M 6 forum userd) that lots of traditional HOMM will be 'cut out'/not present in M&M 6.

Firstly,of course,only 5 factions and no alternative upgrades...meaning that there will only be 90(7creatures per town*2 upgrade/non upgrade*5 towns) non-neutral creatures in the game...if to compare that to the two most liked games of the whole series,HOMM 3 and HOMM 5 ToE,HOMM 3 has 7 factions(118 non-neutral creatures),and HOMM 5 ToE has 8 races+alt upgrades for every creature,meaning 168 non-neutral creatures..
Now,compare M&M 6 with its 5 races/90 creatures to HOMM 5 Toe 8 races/168 creatures and you will get almost 100% more creatures in HOMM 5 ToE than in the M&M 6..A huge step backwards,dont you find?

Secondly,the recources.If there really are going to be only 3 recources(4th is gold) in M&M 6 it will only mean a shortened non-strategic adventure map phase.Ill explain:If for example you're playing as inferno and you have lots of recourse mines under control,and you conquer a Necro town you will be able to buy all the buildings straight away because 3 recources means that all towns will need exactly same types of resources to build the buildings in town.A huge step backwards again because this will shorten multiplayer games alot..

Thirdly,no or 2D town screens.Not that big of a problem,but still after HOMM 5 pieces of art of towns its a step backwards.

4 and the last,No RMG-most useful tool cut out of multiplayer games=fail..sorry but i had no other word to name the absence of RMG with.

Conclusion:myself I won't buy M&M 6 by the looks of what it is going to be when it is released,and i think that there are plenty of others who think the same way i do about all those 'cuts of features'

People who agree with me that those features that ive listed and that are most likely to be cut out of M&M 6,put a little '+' in this topic as a response so developers might consider bringing all those features back in M&M 6 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
sorry 4 my bad English

GamerGeek87
12-27-2010, 11:29 PM
First off, youre comparing H6 to H5 TotE which had two expansions on it. H5 had 6 factions in the vanilla game, and no alternative upgrades. So still it will be a little less non-neutral creature, but not as much as you said. If the lower faction count resolves in more balance thats a good tradeoff, balance wasnt that great in H5.

Secondly, cutting down resources makes it MORE strategic not less. In H5 if you dont have enough resources for one building you just build something else that uses a diffrent resource. This time you will need to choose what you want to buy. And once you get your second town in H5 you can usually upgrade whatever you want anyway. They are going forward in this case IMO.

Thirdly, I think most players miss the 2d town screens, which is why they are changing it back. Personally I dont really care on this one.

Lastly, I will also miss the RMG. In H5 it was introduced in the first expansion, if its the same with H6 Im fine with it but I really want it back.

SwampLord450
12-28-2010, 02:26 AM
I'm leery about the new creature tier system and the removal of long-standing resources, but I'm willing to give it a fair chance. All series need to adapt and change with the times, and Heroes is no exception. It's also a great relief to see that the devs seem to be very much so in touch with the fanbase this time; I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

GoranXII
12-28-2010, 02:36 AM
Secondly, cutting down resources makes it MORE strategic not less. In H5 if you dont have enough resources for one building you just build something else that uses a diffrent resource. This time you will need to choose what you want to buy. And once you get your second town in H5 you can usually upgrade whatever you want anyway. They are going forward in this case IMO.
Disagree, the fact that there were more buildings in H5 didn't make it easier to build towns, if you didn't have the right rare-resource for the building you wanted right then you might have been better saving those resources for later than spending right away on something you didn't want until later.

GamerGeek87
12-28-2010, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
Disagree, the fact that there were more buildings in H5 didn't make it easier to build towns, if you didn't have the right rare-resource for the building you wanted right then you might have been better saving those resources for later than spending right away on something you didn't want until later.

Obviously poeple will disagree on this stuff. I still beleive they are going in the right direction though. I often find myself with lots of resources I dont need, and none that I do need. Still getting something every turn because I have resources I dont need for my main buildings. But I guess well when the game comes out if they made the right choice.


I'm leery about the new creature tier system

Same here. It sounds good in theory, I hope it ends up good.

GoranXII
12-28-2010, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by GamerGeek87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoranXII:
Disagree, the fact that there were more buildings in H5 didn't make it easier to build towns, if you didn't have the right rare-resource for the building you wanted right then you might have been better saving those resources for later than spending right away on something you didn't want until later.

Obviously poeple will disagree on this stuff. I still beleive they are going in the right direction though. I often find myself with lots of resources I dont need, and none that I do need. Still getting something every turn because I have resources I dont need for my main buildings. But I guess well when the game comes out if they made the right choice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Less resources means less versatility, with only 4 resources you can't have skills like artificier. Also, the fact that you always ended up with a bunch of unused resources was not a fault of the number of resources, after all, wood and ore were useless after a town was built, but we still have both of those. Also, Arcane Library was a nice addition, and you could buy stuff with rare resources at the Artefact Merchant, trade them in at a Market, etc.

GamerGeek87
12-28-2010, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
Less resources means less versatility, with only 4 resources you can't have skills like artificier. Also, the fact that you always ended up with a bunch of unused resources was not a fault of the number of resources, after all, wood and ore were useless after a town was built, but we still have both of those. Also, Arcane Library was a nice addition, and you could buy stuff with rare resources at the Artefact Merchant, trade them in at a Market, etc.

In a way it is a design fault. There is no point in having a bunch of extra resources you dont need just to trade them for something you do need. In earlier games you still needed them if you found a town of a diffrent faction, but with the ability to convert towns that is no longer necessary.

You might still need resources to buy artifact and stuff like that, but this time around you will have to choose. Get the artifact or get a building, atleast earlygame.

Hopefully having only 4 resources will also make it easier to balance the need for wood and ore.

Wo could probably argue like this til the game gets released. There are ups and downs to both systems. I think there are more ups with the new system though, but we wont know until we get our hands on the game.

GoranXII
12-28-2010, 08:49 PM
In a way it is a design fault. There is no point in having a bunch of extra resources you dont need just to trade them for something you do need. In earlier games you still needed them if you found a town of a diffrent faction, but with the ability to convert towns that is no longer necessary. That would be more effective if it didn't also apply to wood and ore, of which we still have both.

You might still need resources to buy artifact and stuff like that, but this time around you will have to choose. Get the artifact or get a building, atleast earlygame. Which is no different from how it used to be, artefacts were f*** expensive in H3, Endless Sack Of Gold for example cost 50,000 on H3, but only 10,000 in H5, the +4 Attack weapon was 20,000 in H3, but only 10,000 in H5, or Tomes 100,000 in H3, but only 20,000 in H5.

Wo could probably argue like this til the game gets released. There are ups and downs to both systems. I think there are more ups with the new system though, but we wont know until we get our hands on the game. And I think there are more downs, and if it's balance then it shouldn't be that hard to jigger around with things to make each town need approximately the same rare resources.

wdcryer
12-29-2010, 12:14 PM
I figure with 5 factions they can put a lot of effort into balancing the factions and making them all interesting.

I didn't care much for the old resource system, so I am happy about that change.

I found myself largely ignoring the 3d town screens and just using the UI.

An RMG would be nice, if well-implemented, and I do wish there were more maps off the bat.

I'm definitely going to buy this game because of the changes they are making. I'm looking forward to a fresh experience. I think people should at least give it a chance. Read the reviews when it comes out, then decide. Don't write off the design changes just yet, the developers may have very good reasons behind their decisions.

kodial79
12-30-2010, 09:02 AM
PROS:
1. Getting rid of the cartoonish feeling that H5 had.
2. Re-introducing Might and Magic Heroes to every faction.
3. The new levelling system: No more random skills.
4. Area of Control seems interesting enough.
5. Boss fights in the game.
6. More tactical depth to battles.

CONS:
1. No RMG.
2. Only one rare resource.
3. Only five factions in the initial release.
4. Probably there's going to be fewer buildings per town.
5. No 3D Town Screens.
6. Learning spells like skills, not through visiting Magic Guilds.

mcgslo
12-31-2010, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by kodial79:
PROS:
1. Getting rid of the cartoonish feeling that H5 had.
2. Re-introducing Might and Magic Heroes to every faction.
3. The new levelling system: No more random skills.
4. Area of Control seems interesting enough.
5. Boss fights in the game.
6. More tactical depth to battles.

CONS:
1. No RMG.
2. Only one rare resource.
3. Only five factions in the initial release.
4. Probably there's going to be fewer buildings per town.
5. No 3D Town Screens.
6. Learning spells like skills, not through visiting Magic Guilds.

Agree... except No 3D Town Screens... 3D is not really better than 2D or 2,5D... and i would rather bring 2D or 2,5D town screen.

Learning spells like skills? what? Are there no Magic Guilds in H6?

My thoughts:
I will just say CONS... everything else is PROS:
So CONS:
-No Random Map Generator!!
-really low map count in initial release... usualy maps from noob map makers are mostly fail. I am getting bored with same map even if i play it once... i then know everything where is at and it looses that unknown, explore feeling... so that is also why i love RMG. So what 4 of 8or 10 maps from release will be good for hotseat... and that will get boring prety fast!

HOPES:
-good AI and specially FAST one not like in H5.
-ADDONs with at least 4 more factions.
-dificult scale for monster stacks

As for resources... it could well be good balanced since you will have to fight for them since every one needs them.
Wood or ore could alse be used for creatures building ... bows or swords cabt be made from thin air right? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif except magic

GoranXII
12-31-2010, 03:37 AM
Technically buildings can't be built without wood or ore either, but Halls certainly were. Oh, and wood and ore already are used in creature buildings, if that's what you call dwellings.

Niphire
01-04-2011, 11:04 AM
Pros:
1. The screenshots of the adventure map so far look awesome!
2. I'm basically pro all factions shown thus far.
3. Towns evolve on adventure map.
4. Only 4 resources. In H2, crystals and gems are cool features. In H5 I am pretty tired of capturing yet another mine, and still be stalling on yet another resource.
5. No alternate upgrades. They add nothing, you just choose the best one of them every time.
6. Mixed wandering creatures. In map generator, I'd like to be able to choose between "random one type stack, lvl X" and "random mixed stack, lvl X", preferrably also with checkboxes for upgrades or no.
7. It's easy to make mods. (Or so they say, Q&A oct 15)
8. Customizeable heroes in multiplayer.

Cons:
1. Low initial map-count. It's a big problem with an easy fix. Pay me! I'll make tons of them for you! =P Take a look at the maps of heroes 2 and 3. Many of them are quite fun. H2 King of the hill, H2 Seven lakes, H3 Warlords and H5 the School among others. Making versions of them for heroes 6 shouldn't take that much time, and would probably increase sales with 150% or so... I don't care much about random map generator, because those maps are mostly quite poor anyway.

2. New levelling systems, no more randomness. This could be quite good, but I'm afraid that you'll find THE build for each faction and then just do it every time, and knowing exactly what level 5 will bring to your hero every time. SOME randomness is nice. See what you get and adapt your strategy to what you find. Maybe you could get to choose between 2-4 "main" (like H5 Logistics) secondary skills (more at early levels) and 2-4 "secondary" (Like H5 pathfinding) secondary skills, 6 picks in total for each level up compared to 4 in H5.

3. Square tiles in combat. Hexagons rule!

4. Boss fights. Like someone said, this isn't Super Mario Bros. Cutting dragons from factions to make boss fights seems like a poor deal. Although I might be wrong here.

5. Only 5 factions. Obviously you are setting up expansions. Expansions suck. I didn't buy H5 until all the expansions were released, and I don't think I'm going to buy H6 without expansions either. I've got H2 to play with in the waits. It's got 6 factions and no expansion. =)

6. I'm sceptical about the new tier system. Seems like there will be fewer buildings too.

7. Lack of diversity within factions. There seems to be no big difference between the maniac, tormentor and juggernaut, for example. Yet another thorny, fiery beastie, so?

Nightmus
01-04-2011, 07:39 PM
There's lots to point out, but I'd rather wait for more information to be provided. Right now I have one big complaint - I don't like the way factions were chosen.

We have Haven and Necropolis, which are staples and could not be left behind anyway. There are demons for the role of main antagonists. The orcs represent pure might I guess. Hope there's no magic users in that faction or magic suppressing talents like in H5 - it's stupid for a race that ignores magic to sit and learn how to counter various magic schools.

My favourite towns are Academy/Tower, Dungeon and H5 Preserve. Yet there's none of them present. Let's assume Ubihole wants to freshen things up and diversify the towns. Then who am I supposed to choose for a magic-oriented gameplay if I'm not into necromancy? There's no wizards, no warlocks. Haven are defensive healers, Inferno is too army-oriented, Necropolis is just not for me and the Orcs are outright might.

Will the secret new race fit? From what I understand the towns can be divided as chaotic/lawful, good/evil, might/magic and by spell schools. Then we have:
- good lawful might Haven with light magic
- evil lawful magic Necropolis with dark/earth
- evil chaotic mixed Inferno with dark/fire
- neutral(?) chaotic might Orcs with no magic (or primordial?)

By this logic we are left with:
- good balanced magic New_Secret_Race with water/air magic

Is this the race that compensates the lack of mages/warlocks? Do they have elemental destruction magic? Summoning? Support magic?

If not, then Haven would better be able to specialize their magic heroes into something else than support&heal light. If my assumptions are not right, then it looks like H6 has undergone not diversification of town gameplay styles, but has been cut down and simplified.