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frapeforte1
02-04-2005, 05:53 PM
Sorry for the stupid question here. Can someone tell me if the Betty is flyable in PF? I thought it was but I cant seem to locate it anywhere.

Thanks

frapeforte1
02-04-2005, 05:53 PM
Sorry for the stupid question here. Can someone tell me if the Betty is flyable in PF? I thought it was but I cant seem to locate it anywhere.

Thanks

cwojackson
02-04-2005, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by frapeforte1:
Sorry for the stupid question here. Can someone tell me if the Betty is flyable in PF? I thought it was but I cant seem to locate it anywhere.

Thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good day and I hope you continue to enjoy it.

Currently in PF the Betty is AI only, you can't fly it. It is commonly assumed to be one of the aircraft that had it's panel removed before the game was shipped in order to save space on two CDs.

"Attention: We simply ran out of space on our 2 CDs and had to remove some cockpits for
several flyable aircraft. Free add-on containing these aircraft will be made
available at http://www.pacific-fighters.com for a free download. (Nov 2004)"

Hopefully it will be part of that download whenever it is released.

carguy_
02-04-2005, 06:46 PM
Betty will be flyable in some time.

JunkoIfurita
02-04-2005, 06:52 PM
It was an unfortunate mistake on all counts.

1C:Maddox Games were not responsible for the packaging of the game, nor the documentation booklet (or at least that's what I was told when I offered to rewrite it for free ^_^).

Although the Betty may be included as flyable in a patch, it wasn't intended as flyable with the original release. UBI made a mistake on the packaging, perhaps there was a miscommunication, and there's been a hell of a lot of fuss about it since.

Relationships between distributers and developers are usually terse and distant. Valve and Vivendi - Valve had to miss their expected release date of HL2 because Vivendi objected for some reason, even though copies were already on the shelves. Valve gets blamed for 'lying' even though in this case it was beyond their control.

I'm personally not interested in the Betty (I can't level bomb for the life of me), but I do hope that all who are waiting won't have their hopes dashed. All I'm saying is that there is more to any situation than is readily apparent, so cut people all the slack you can.

frapeforte1, my apologies for the long confusing reply - this is a topic that is being debated hotly (and in some cases in an infantile manner) in the forums at the moment.

----

LEXX_Luthor
02-04-2005, 07:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Betty may be included <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
May Indeed. But I know from lurking at netwing that AI Avia http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif and Fokker have just been integrated into the game last week or two, but no updates there either. So here's hoping. I need the G4M really bad for missions, something "different" from He~111 and B~25, and old cockpit pics look really fascinating.

Yimmy
02-04-2005, 07:57 PM
I can't wait to get my hans on the Betty, not that I can level bomb, but i guess I will be able to ~20m bomb with it as I do with the A20....

In fact, I am so desperate to get it, that two weeks on Thursday I shall start holding my breath for it.

Mr_Nakajima
02-05-2005, 02:32 AM
A G4M 'Betty' can carry torpedoes as well as bombs, so you will be able to conduct low-level anti-shipping strikes in it.

Should be fun in a large target notorious for bursting in to flames at the least provocation!

LEXX_Luthor
02-05-2005, 03:00 AM
Been thinking. With its excessively large range and good speed, why they didn't use it as a sort of surface skimming "flying" torpedo boat, never flying at high altidude, always skimming the waves, dropping torpedoes at whatever ship it may find. That could solve the radar detection problem that helped get Betty's massacred by fighters.

Mjollnir111675
02-05-2005, 08:52 AM
Hey Lexx:
They DID do that!!
Except one has to remember that the Avenger had quite possibly the best a/c radar set that could pick them up even at low altitude. At which time they would vector in fighters. So it wasn't that they lacked the use of the "wave top torp platform" or the tactic to employ them as such.They just couldn't escape the radar.

Heres an excerpt from" The Buzzard Brigade" by Stephen Moore:

"With her final recoveries,the Enterprise began retreating northward with task force 58.1.During retirement,long range Betty bombers came after Task Force 58 again that night in vigorous attacks. By midnight it was over,and the only ship damaged was a destroyer which had its rudder knocked off. A Betty bomber surprised the BIG E shortly after 2000, skimming past overhead and delivering a torpedo which thumped into the carrier on her port side amidships. The Enterprises great luck had continued when the japanese torpedo failed to explode!!"
I guess I could go on but I wont.


There are almost TOO many refs to the use of the radar set in this book. If they could pick up the faintest of geographical objects(ex: an outlying Atoll) at zero altitude I am sure they wouldn't have any probs in picking up an aluminum plane skimming along at 50-100 ft..

But heres just a lil on the perf of the radar set: taken again from the same book:

"His ability to pick up their carrier was crucial to making it home.Standard radar distance had been about 70 miles,but a new circuit had doubled the range to a maximum of 140 miles with- although the circuit had not been fully tested yet.
Still,picking up the homing signal was the only way Lawton was going to bring his new division home.Calling back to radioman Jim Geyton, Lawton said," See if you can pick up the ship."
Geyton turned on the set and quickly picked up the Big E's signal at 136 miles,giving his pilot the correct steer.An amzed Ernie Lawton muttered,"Thats about correct."
"Thats what I got," Geyton assured him. This test run of the super powerful aerial radar proved right on, for the TBF's were shortly right above the Enterprise."

HEY 1-C: PIMP OUR TORP PLANES!! And the TBF/M's radar set!!

LEXX_Luthor
02-05-2005, 07:15 PM
Wow. So there was a cat and mouse game of night fighting just above the waves, with Avenger carrying the radar? Did they vector day fighters until they could spot them visually? How did they down the Betty's at night? Thanks.

Aztek_Eagle
02-05-2005, 09:10 PM
there were night fighters wiht radar aswell on the navy carrier based inventory, afther the betty started to get slaughter in day role, it moved into nite torpedo atacks wiht some sucess, till the night carrier based fighters apeared, then the posivility of sucess became even smaller, there were some carrier born night fighter aces if i am not mistaken

Aztek_Eagle
02-05-2005, 09:18 PM
cant seem to find anything about carrierborn fighters wiht radar in my books... perhaps they were just indeed vectored till eye contact?

LEXX_Luthor
02-05-2005, 09:24 PM
Thanks. I never knew about this, must look it up. I am fascinated by this. I usually think of WW2 nite fighter ops like RAF high over Germany, and some even Ju~87 prowling for Russian nite bombers on occasion I heard. I knew about nite attacks by the Japanese, but not the attempts to intercept them.

cwojackson
02-05-2005, 11:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aztek_Eagle:
cant seem to find anything about carrierborn fighters wiht radar in my books... perhaps they were just indeed vectored till eye contact? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I believe there was a varient of the Hellcat that had a wing mounted radar pod.

Artic_Wulf
02-06-2005, 02:13 AM
The torpedoe carrying version of the Betty Bomber, sunk the The Battle ship HMS Prince of Wales and battle cruiser HMS Repulse off the coast of Maylaya, in December 41.

Total disaster for the Royal Navy in the far East, there best 2 capitol ships sunk, only days after the US Navy was disabled at Pearl Harbour.

I think it was the Genzen wing, they where especially transfered to a secret air base to deal with Prince of Wales and Repulse if they came out of Singapore to fight when hostilities started.
It was learned after the war, ( from interviews with POWs that where part of the command structure of the IJNAF) that before hostilities even began in the Pacific, these Japanese aircraft where specificatly based in the area to deal with Prince of Wales and Repulse.

S!

FoolTrottel
02-06-2005, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aztek_Eagle:
cant seem to find anything about carrierborn fighters wiht radar in my books... perhaps they were just indeed vectored till eye contact? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not a fighter, but carrierborn, and with radar:
http://server3.uploadit.org/files/FoolTrottel-AvengerAEW.jpg

Akronnick
02-06-2005, 03:21 AM
F4U-2 was a night fighter with a radar in a pod on the wing.

http://www.vought.com/heritage/products/html/f4u-2.html

There were also Night fighter versions of the Hellcat, i.e. the F6F-3N and the F6F-5N

http://www.warbirdresourcegroup.org/NARG/hellcat.html (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/NARG/hellcat.html)

badaboom.1
02-06-2005, 08:32 AM
WOW!!!Nice link Akronnick!!!!,Love those Hellcat pics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gifbtw Mjollnir111675 how is/was the book you quoted in your above post?Would you recommened it? Is it available online? thanks.

Mjollnir111675
02-06-2005, 10:13 AM
Badaboom:
Yes sir the book is great!! I would def recommend it.
it is dealing with Torp Squad Ten aboard the Enterprise for its first 2 cruises and then on the Intrepid for their 3rd.
And of their tech firsts aboard these vessels.
Such as the first ever successful cat launch (both night AND day) aboard the Enterprises deck cats (not hangar bay) cats, radar training and co-op between fleet and an airwing aloft, night fighting tactics later to be evolved amongst the 10ths fighter units and even the first tbf with "homemade" 50's that the crew ad hoc'd into place under the wings. Very funny in its own right!!!! Plus its scope is not limited to just this airframe as many other pilots of the 10th's fighting and bombing units are also covered.
So yes it is very informative!! NOTE: This is more of a unit history dealing with the use and employment of such planes not a tech ref with blueprints or the like.
I purchased mine on-line on ebay through Aerohoots which is also Aeroplane Books.
Their phone #: 757-597-7008
But it is hardcover,318 pgs.,high gloss high quality paper(not the paper with tree bark chips in it!!)
. It came in library quality with a book jacket cover and it came packed better than gold bars at Fort Knox!!
So yes its a very good book!! I am sure you'll enjoy it if you have atleast a minimal interest in the torp plane or their pilots. One thing I am getting out of it is how indespensible these planes really were!!

HEY 1-C: PIMP OUR TORP PLANES!! Mop Em' Up!!

badaboom.1
02-06-2005, 12:12 PM
Hey,That's great!,Thanks much for the detailed review[it defenitly got my intrest]I'm just finishing a very good book in it's own right clled FIRE IN THE SKY by ERIC.M.BERGERUD,It's real life accounts from the pilots of both allied fighter pilots & bomber crews& thier JAPENESE counterparts is gripng!!!!!,It's 679 pgs & at times can be a bit to winded[a bit to much tech info] but all in all a very good read,some good pics to,How about FLYBOYS ? Have you or anyone else read that?BTW sorry to hijack the thread but who better to ask about books than the people who enjoy the same things I do!!Thanks Mjollnir111675 for your response I will be looking for THE BUZZARD BRIGADE in my local book store tomarrow,if they don't have it I'll take advantage of your info from your post.

DuxCorvan
02-06-2005, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
Maybe not a fighter, but carrierborn, and with radar
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and mostly postwar, FoolTrottel. You could the same post a Tomcat there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ijnpilot
02-06-2005, 12:48 PM
Heck, who needs a Betty when you can have
THIS ?

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/Ijapilot-japbetty1.jpg

Artic_Wulf
02-06-2005, 10:30 PM
The Black Cats where the true Pacific Marauders after dark, using Radar.

They flew some very dangerouse missions after dark,( and some during the day) yet not a single Black Cat PBY was ever lost in action.

cwojackson
02-06-2005, 10:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Artic_Wulf:
The Black Cats where the true Pacific Marauders after dark, using Radar.

They flew some very dangerouse missions after dark,( and some during the day) yet not a single Black Cat PBY was ever lost in action. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>For some reason most folks think of fighter pilots when they think of bravery in the air. I think of Swordfish, C-47 and PBY pilots.

Ijnpilot
02-07-2005, 10:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For some reason most folks think of fighter pilots when they think of bravery in the air. I think of Swordfish, C-47 and PBY pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think of the unfortunate souls that had to be belly gunners in a B-17 in the turret with failed hydraulics that needs to do a belly landing.

WTE_Gog
02-07-2005, 02:31 PM
Why? Do you think he stayed there during belly landings? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Fraid not old chum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Indianer.
02-07-2005, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ijnpilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For some reason most folks think of fighter pilots when they think of bravery in the air. I think of Swordfish, C-47 and PBY pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think of the unfortunate souls that had to be belly gunners in a B-17 in the turret with failed hydraulics that needs to do a belly landing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah that kinda freaks me out too, along with getting burned alive in the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

any1 who got into the air knowing that they might die has gotta be somewhere in the bravery stakes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aztek_Eagle
02-08-2005, 06:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Artic_Wulf:
The Black Cats where the true Pacific Marauders after dark, using Radar.

They flew some very dangerouse missions after dark,( and some during the day) yet not a single Black Cat PBY was ever lost in action. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

then it was not so dangerous! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aztek_Eagle
02-08-2005, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indianer.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ijnpilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For some reason most folks think of fighter pilots when they think of bravery in the air. I think of Swordfish, C-47 and PBY pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think of the unfortunate souls that had to be belly gunners in a B-17 in the turret with failed hydraulics that needs to do a belly landing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah that kinda freaks me out too, along with getting burned alive in the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

any1 who got into the air knowing that they might die has gotta be somewhere in the bravery stakes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

when u burn in copit..... if it is minor, it hurts like a ...... if it it major doesnt hurt lol......... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but the meltal trauma, is huge,.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Shangko
02-08-2005, 07:06 AM
Maddox announced G4M flyable in launching of Pacific Fighters, but for not enough CD space, in early pacth it flyable...

More of 3 months later...

Ô┬┐Where is G4M?

Ô┬┐Somedoby see any picture of cockpit, bombardier or gunner positions of G4M?

Announced G4M flyable is a.. Ô┬┐lie?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

p1ngu666
02-08-2005, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ijnpilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For some reason most folks think of fighter pilots when they think of bravery in the air. I think of Swordfish, C-47 and PBY pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think of the unfortunate souls that had to be belly gunners in a B-17 in the turret with failed hydraulics that needs to do a belly landing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bomber crews too, and recon pilots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

id be most interested to read about japanease bomber stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Sir-Tiedeman
02-08-2005, 11:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ijnpilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For some reason most folks think of fighter pilots when they think of bravery in the air. I think of Swordfish, C-47 and PBY pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think of the unfortunate souls that had to be belly gunners in a B-17 in the turret with failed hydraulics that needs to do a belly landing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bomber crews too, and recon pilots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

id be most interested to read about japanease bomber stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



porr russian soldiers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

F19_Olli72
02-08-2005, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
id be most interested to read about japanease bomber stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pingu, if you havent read it already here u go:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/9601/kurita.html Hmm ... makes me wish there was a Ki-67 in progress for PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

p1ngu666
02-08-2005, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sir-Tiedeman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ijnpilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For some reason most folks think of fighter pilots when they think of bravery in the air. I think of Swordfish, C-47 and PBY pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think of the unfortunate souls that had to be belly gunners in a B-17 in the turret with failed hydraulics that needs to do a belly landing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bomber crews too, and recon pilots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

id be most interested to read about japanease bomber stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



porr russian soldiers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah i know some stuff about russian soldiers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
19,000 russians, or russian soldiers i forget, died a day to destroy the invader.

olli, ill have a gander, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
02-08-2005, 02:47 PM
ah broken url http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Sharkey888
02-08-2005, 04:04 PM
Don't forget to check out this site:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/betty.jpg


http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/

F19_Olli72
02-08-2005, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
ah broken url http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm works for me....