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XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 06:27 PM
I am thinking of making a series of Stalingrad missions, involving ground combat in the (non-destroyed) industrial part in the north city.

The airfields for Soviets are pretty obvious, a few beyond the Volga. Now, for the Germans there are three airfields just outside of Stalingrad on the map, but should I use the airfields much farther away? Basically, when the Germans were inside Stalingrad, did they use the airfields of Stalingrad for basing Stuka or fighter missions? Fighters taking off there would not gain a hysterically accurate altitude advantage before getting over Stalingrad--if they don't make a rather detoured route. I think I will be using the farther airfields, as the three Stalingrad airfields seem too close to front to use. I dunno. Its this kind of airfield info that you never read about and never think of until you mess with FMB.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I am going to use non-destroyed city cos the ground units don't fire at each other unless they are ~very~ close or have a clear line of sight--a rare situation in the dense industrial parts of FB maps. The problem is if you "destroy" the map, the ground units treat the terrain as open field--they shoot and move through rubble. Also, there are no single trees in the industrial sector, and so there is no need to "destroy" the map to get rid of them so your ground units don't get stuck *every* time.

Thanx



Message Edited on 10/09/0305:29PM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 06:27 PM
I am thinking of making a series of Stalingrad missions, involving ground combat in the (non-destroyed) industrial part in the north city.

The airfields for Soviets are pretty obvious, a few beyond the Volga. Now, for the Germans there are three airfields just outside of Stalingrad on the map, but should I use the airfields much farther away? Basically, when the Germans were inside Stalingrad, did they use the airfields of Stalingrad for basing Stuka or fighter missions? Fighters taking off there would not gain a hysterically accurate altitude advantage before getting over Stalingrad--if they don't make a rather detoured route. I think I will be using the farther airfields, as the three Stalingrad airfields seem too close to front to use. I dunno. Its this kind of airfield info that you never read about and never think of until you mess with FMB.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I am going to use non-destroyed city cos the ground units don't fire at each other unless they are ~very~ close or have a clear line of sight--a rare situation in the dense industrial parts of FB maps. The problem is if you "destroy" the map, the ground units treat the terrain as open field--they shoot and move through rubble. Also, there are no single trees in the industrial sector, and so there is no need to "destroy" the map to get rid of them so your ground units don't get stuck *every* time.

Thanx



Message Edited on 10/09/0305:29PM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 07:33 PM
I'm far from an expert, but I'll give what little information I have. First you may want to define a more precise time table. I do not know the locations of Luftwaffe airfields early on in the advance on Stalingrad (June-September), but I do know they consistently moved as close to the 'front lines' (more precisely, where the fighting was occuring) as was practical, in order to support the ground forces, maintain air supremacy, and strike enemy supply columns. It should be noted that with air supremacy, the Germans were able to force back the VVS, so its airfields were normally considerably behind the 'front lines', to avoid Luftwaffe attacks. I believe it was August when the Germans began the push through Stalingrad city.

As winter closed in, the situation became quite desperate at Stalingrad; the Germans did control the city, but were encircled (Operation Uranus by the Soviets). Supplies could only be flown in, 2 of the main airfields used were Pitomnik and I believe Gumrak (the Gumrack closest to Pitomnik in FB), but of course not nearly enough supplies arrived to save the Paulus and his 6th Army, who was forced to surrender (late January 1943).

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 07:37 PM
I think those airfields, especially Gumrak (sp?), were used primarily for transport of material by Ju-52s and He-111s (especially after encirclement), there would also likely be some Storchs- not sure about Stukas and 109s though.

Bumping your thread for a better response (than mine):]



Message Edited on 10/09/0307:48PM by Cold_Gambler

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 08:23 PM
The Rumanians and some German Stukas used Karpovka (near Stepnoi village in FB) until SGrad was surrounded.

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 11:23 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- I am thinking of making a series of Stalingrad
- missions, involving ground combat in the
- (non-destroyed) industrial part in the north city.
-
- The airfields for Soviets are pretty obvious, a few
- beyond the Volga. Now, for the Germans there are
- three airfields just outside of Stalingrad on the
- map, but should I use the airfields much farther
- away? Basically, when the Germans were inside
- Stalingrad, did they use the airfields of Stalingrad
- for basing Stuka or fighter missions? Fighters
- taking off there would not gain a hysterically
- accurate altitude advantage before getting over
- Stalingrad--if they don't make a rather detoured
- route. I think I will be using the farther
- airfields, as the three Stalingrad airfields seem
- too close to front to use. I dunno. Its this kind of
- airfield info that you never read about and
- never think of until you mess with FMB....
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- I am going to use non-destroyed city cos the ground
- units don't fire at each other unless they are
- ~very~ close or have a clear line of sight--a rare
- situation in the dense industrial parts of FB maps.
- The problem is if you "destroy" the map, the ground
- units treat the terrain as open field--they shoot
- and move through rubble. Also, there are no single
- trees in the industrial sector, and so there is no
- need to "destroy" the map to get rid of them so your
- ground units don't get stuck *every* time.
-
- Thanx
-
-
Hi Lexx
You might want to look at this site, I think that it's the one I used quite a lot.
http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/
Go to Highlights> Stalingrad Airlift> Map of the Airlift. I tried to make historic missions around Stalingrad but gave up. Unfortunately the Stalingrad map really is awful. The north part of the city (Red October Works, tractor factory etc) where you want to set your missions, isnt modelled at all, just a big blank space.
One of the airfields, not sure which, is in the wrong place. The Volga is wrong too, it was much narrower and had no reservoirs, unlike the FB map.
Towards the end there was an airfield on the edge of the city, Stalingradski (?), which isn't in FB, but you can make your own landing ground in more or less the right place with some camp fires and buildings.
The airfields that the Airlift operated from are outside the scope of the map, so you will have to start your transports in the air. The Fw200 should be in the paid-for patch, so that will give you another option to add to the Ju52s and He111s.
Sorry if some of my statements are a bit woolly but I'm operating from memory here. Drop me a PM if you want any further info (websites, books and odd stuff I might have discoverd (!)).
Cheers!


<CENTER>


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Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 11:29 PM
real real cool ,there are good maps etc in book here http://www.antonybeevor.com/index.html

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 11:42 PM
what i seen the the strips were 10km and 15km back with the biggest been about 40km back , from stralingrad front line ,9 january 1943 with ring been about 60kms long ways by 40 km wide,base been at pitomnik ,gumrak, stalingradsky

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 02:54 AM
Thanks everybody. Most very helpful.

Two ideas:: Attack Red Army "barges" going down Volga and attack LW air transports landing at the fields next to Stalingrad. If I ever get the code going, the results should effect later ground units on missions. What to use for the "barges" though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Also, anti~artillery missions would be cool, as the artillery make a mess of the built up industrial area, and do occasionally hit a ground unit. But to fire at each other, the ground units must be so close the artillery hits both sides. I guess that did happen alot though. Katyushas are amazing to watch eat up the city. Neat to watch the rockets come over the horizon too but you can't always see them. Must find out why. Just wish they had some city near the Volga though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Message Edited on 10/10/0301:59AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 04:12 AM
I am not sure whart aspect of the "Battle of Stalingrad" you are trying to to focus on.

However if you plan on making missions where the Germans are trapped in the pocket (as opposed to the initial German attack to capture the city itself) then the air war really revolved around the attempts to keep 6th army supplied.

There were actually 7 airfields within the "Pockets". Of those sevens, only Pitomnik was equipped to handle large-scale operations. The others, with the exception of Basargino, were no more than bare grass landing strips, lacking all necessary communications and air traffic control equipment.

The 7 airbases were:

Pitomnik
Bolshaia Rossoshka
Stalingradski
Gumrak
Basargino
Voroponovo
Karpovka

These 3 air fields handlerd most of the transoport/supply aircraft.

Pitomnik
Gumrak
Bolshaia Rossoshka

Heres a good link for airlift info

http://216.198.255.120/germanpart/mainpage_airlift.htm

Heres a link to the main Stalingrad link

http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/

Be sure to check out the maps

http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/maps/map_index.htm

Heres a map showing 4 of the 7 airfields

http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/maps/stalingrad_map_12.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 06:16 AM
Yes, the idea is to have ground units (note the lack of specificity here) fighting each other inside the big industrial area up north. Thanks, but I was just wondering about which airfields to base the Fb109s and Stukas from. The three airfields near Stalingrad seem too close for this purpose.

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:10 AM
there is no need to keep all LW planes in side the ring you can bring in from out side as they were escorting trainsport planes in and out too

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:26 AM
nap, Pre-Ring Stalingrad. About October/November. So I can switch maps to winter when the time comes. An interesting change of scenery.

Let me clarify. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif What airfields should I base the Stukas from for attacks on northern Stalingrad and Volga? (Stukas were bombers only)

Forget the Fb109s and "transports" for now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 07:29 AM
btw, that was an awesom map, thanks ya'll.

http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/maps/stalingrad_map_12.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 08:01 AM
http://216.198.255.120/germanpart/airliftmap.jpg


most of the airfields were to the west toward rostov. So the airfields west about 200-250 km west would be good.If you just want some close airfields then it doesnt really matter just use what you have.

The Soviets controlled the area North of Stalingrad and west mostly following the River Don. It was from a few small bridgeheads on the west bank of the Don that the Soviet northern pincer was launched (see operation Uranus map).

Go through and look at all the maps.

Heres a map showing the initial German movements into the city

http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/maps/stalingrad_map_9.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2003, 11:39 AM
http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/maps/stalingrad_map_9.htm

Yes JG53_Wotan, about where 100th Infantry division goes into the northern part. Its sad we don't have the factories near the Volga. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Maybe they could redo this small part of Stalingrad map for the paid addon before the BoB thing.

In FMB you have to zoom in real close and set dozens of waypoints so the tanks and armoured cars don't get trapped by buildings, but the buildings also prevent firing unless the units have line of sight which is comparatively rare. Awesome effects there especially with 20mm armed vehicles like T~60 and PzII yet they don't fire continously because they can rarely see each other for all the buildings.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 02:20 AM
If you want real historic information take a look at the book "Stalingrad" by Anthony Beaver... i great book on Stalingrad, by the guy who recently brough out the book "Berlin" or the "Battle of Berlin" i can't exactly remember. It's got loads of useful info, like excatly where the airfields were and number and types of planes used and lost and when each airfield was overrun by the Soviets. PS the 6th Army surrended fully by the 2nd of Feb 1943

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 03:05 AM
Boloshevesk

http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/

http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/aceshigh.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 10:34 AM
- but there was only one concrete airfield close to the city right? - the one to the west just north of the train station.

S!

M0NS (authorized P39 pyrotechnician)



"Blow up the outside world"

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My garage!

Zayets
10-15-2003, 10:50 AM
ianboys wrote:
- The Rumanians and some German Stukas used Karpovka
- (near Stepnoi village in FB) until SGrad was
- surrounded.
-
- _____________
- Ian Boys
- =38=Tatarenko
- Kapitan - 38. OIAE
-

FYI :Is and was always since the beginning , Romanians not Rumanians. And the information is correct. For more details,not only about Stalingrad,involving Romanian troops see this link : http://www.worldwar2.ro/?language=en


Zayets out

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