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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:34 AM
Does anybody look forward to this crap?

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30500-12777448,00.html

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:34 AM
Does anybody look forward to this crap?

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30500-12777448,00.html

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:39 AM
I talked to my wife about this (she's from Texas, I'm
English) and she wasn't offended. She said anyone who
believes it is reality is stupid. It worries me that
there are many stupid people out there, sadly. Maybe
education isn't what it used to be, but then it probably
never was. Her father's father flew B17s in Europe, though,
and her mother's father, also a qualified pilot, somehow
ended up in the infantry fighting across north west
Europe.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:51 AM
They say it wont sell if a Brit was in the leading roll. I say put a well known US/British actor in! Like the guy who played Wolverine in X-men, or that other guy who got caught with a ******. I cant think of his name or anyting he played in. There are many Brits that are famous actors here, and many more who could play a Brit. I dont agree with what this movie is doing. BoB was won by British, and helped out a little by the US (some supplies, but a little late). They should get the credit they deserve.

Gib

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:01 AM
... let's bomb Hollywood ... ;-))

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:02 AM
They are gonna call the film "The Few"
Some RAF veterans might not be to happy about this


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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:04 AM
More Hollywood bullsh*t like Pearl Harbour(the cheesiest film ive ever seen)

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:05 AM
Well I think it stinks why the hell do we need a american in the lead roll we have plenty of good english actors that would do a better job of it.Oh well it's only history.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:07 AM
nifse wrote:
- They are gonna call the film "The Few"
- Some RAF veterans might not be to happy about this

Some?

Try all of them.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:38 AM
Oh man I thought the movie was simply about the first american to die in WWII. I didn't know they twisted it to make a guy who only flew 3 missions out to be a hero.
I think anyone who survived was a hero. From everything I've read the brit's simply threw every pilot, and plane with guns they had at the Germans.
Eventually through attrition the Germans had no choice but the back off their attacks.

I don't think it was some super mission that ended the BoB. I'll probably wait till it hits cable to watch it anyway. I never go to the movies.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:44 AM
http://www.uploadit.org/files/180903-silly.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:50 AM
Hopperfly22 wrote:
-- I think anyone who survived was a hero.

Those who died in the line of duty were not?

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:05 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- think of his name or anyting he played in. There
- are many Brits that are famous actors here, and many
- more who could play a Brit.

But if we put the famous ones in who are of roughly
the right age to be fighter pilots we'd have Robert
Carlyle, Ewan McGregor, John Hannah, and we'd have
the Scottish winning the Battle of Britain :-)

Seriously, are there any young, square-jawed English
actors left?

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:07 AM
It's just another 'How the Yanks won the war' job.


"Members of the Royal Naval Association were disappointed that the Hollywood film U-571 depicted Americans snatching a German Enigma device, as the vital events on which the film is based involved RN vessels. The only incident involving Americans took place in 1944, and had no significant effect on the war effort."

I wonder how many of our friends across the pond saw U571 and immediately assumed we Brits had bugger-all to do with it? As this newspaper clip above shows, that was not the case. The crew that went aboard the original captured sub came from a British vessel - but then nobody in the USA film industry seems to believe that anyone else had anything to do with winning the war, so I'm probably wasting my breath.

Having a 'poke a Yank in the eye' day - sorry if I upset any of my many American friends (and I do count them as some of the best), but this Hollywood bollocks really gets up my nose sometimes.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:08 AM
"The dead know only one thing...
It's better to be alive." - Full Metal Jacket

They gave all and deserve great respect for that. Yet calling a dead man a hero while good for loving memory purposes is about the equivilent of waiting till someone dies to go pay them back the $20 you borrowed from them.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:09 AM
". From everything I've read the brit's simply threw every pilot, and plane with guns they had at the Germans.
Eventually through attrition the Germans had no choice but the back off their attacks."


The BoB was won by the British because they knew what they were doing, and the Germans didn't.


Britain's air defense system was the best in the world, and they knew how to use it. The 11 group commander Keith Park was a brilliant tactician and the battle was fought with great care and planning. They did not throw every plane and pilot they had at the Germans, there was a system of Squadron rotation to rest and re-equip heavilly engaged units in quieter areas , besides the 11 group control infrastructure couldn't have handled more aircraft anyway.

The German command had no clear plan, faulty intelligence, and set about the battle in an improvised way trusting to what they thought was the innate superiority of their men and machines. Goering simply willed his jaeger to knock down Spitfires and Hurricanes in the 5:1 ratio they would have needed to gain air superiority. They never came close.

Park was a masterly air commander, a tough professional who had been a fighter pilot in WW1. Kesslering was a brilliant army general, but an airman he wasn't. He'd only learnt to fly a couple of years before the battle. It was his misfortune to be outfought by Park twice. First in the BoB, then again over Malta. Park never lost an air battle.

What you have read seems to be the commonly held 'Mythical' account of the Battle of Britain of the British hanging on by the skin of their teeth, throwing everything they had, and winning out against all odds and with luck on their side. The truth is somewhat removed from that.

This film is about Billy Fiske with 601Sqn, shot down 18th August 1940 crashing at Tangmere badly burned, and dying the next day from shock. The first 'official' American to die in WW2. What Hollywood is going to do with it is anyone's guess, but a gross distortion of the truth can't be ruled out!




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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:14 AM
Oh dear, just read the article. If they have the BoB won by Americans storming along kicking those 109 butts, and showing the Limeys how to do it...there's going to be a problem.

The comment about Saving Private Ryan is irrelevant. The film isn't about D-Day as such, or who won it, that was the backdrop...it's about the little band of guys who saved private Ryan..

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:14 AM
AaronGT wrote:

-
- But if we put the famous ones in who are of roughly
- the right age to be fighter pilots we'd have Robert
- Carlyle, Ewan McGregor, John Hannah, and we'd have
- the Scottish winning the Battle of Britain :-)
-
- Seriously, are there any young, square-jawed English
- actors left?
-
-
-
-
-

hmmm maybe Jude Law?

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:17 AM
Hollywood twists the facts? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif I'd never have guessed/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

I'm sorry, but they'll stay away in droves when it's shown over here, and I don't blame them.

As for me? Sorry Hollywood but I'll stick with the original thank you.

I might just wait for the dvd release and "borrow" it for curiosity's sake but I certainly won't pay money to see it.

AaronGT wrote:
- But if we put the famous ones in who are of roughly
- the right age to be fighter pilots we'd have Robert
- Carlyle, Ewan McGregor, John Hannah, and we'd have
- the Scottish winning the Battle of Britain :-)

Well, it was the Battle of Britain, not the Battle of England /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . There were plenty of Scottish pilots involved, along with the Irish, Welsh and pilots of numerous other nations too.

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Message Edited on 09/18/0311:46AM by Poprivet

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:26 AM
I loved the original BOB movie

How about the Brit actors in AMI movies like Sean Connery or the Brits in Lord of the Rings (I think?)

I think the X-Men guy was an Aussie (Hugh Jackman?)

How about Heath Ledger? hahahahaha

It is a real joke having history re-written. I will still see it if any good combat scenes are in it. Thats one thing I did love about Pearl Harbour, the lovely spit scenes. Even if they were doing unrealistic maneuvers

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:26 AM
I am a Yank, and I am quite insulted! By this film! Now I know why everyone hates us so much. Its all Hollywood's fault!!! I personally give all credit of BoB to the Brits, and lousy German tactics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Hitlers famous order "Ignore the RAF, go after the civilians! That will crush their sperits." That just happened to galvinize the country against the Nazi party, and give the RAF time to build up an airforce to fight off the Luftwaffa. The best thing the Germans ever did was NOT to invate Britin. They would have had a nasty azz-kicking. Tiger tanks are all good, but you cant get them accross the channel, let alone up the clifs of Dover http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

choxaway wrote:
- It's just another 'How the Yanks won the war' job.
-
-

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:30 AM
Well thats one film I'll go out of my way to.........



..........miss!

And I thought of Jude Law too......./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:30 AM
Well every country's history books are different. I could be wrong but calling for pilots from other countries to come fly, and flying everything from Spitfires, Hurricane's, and from what I've read such things as Gladiators up against the Germans sure sounds desperate.

I believe the actual word was persistant. I never said they blindly threw aircraft up at them. It wasn't meant to down the RAF any. Still the pilots were working some serious overtime.

The way you said it makes it sound like a cake walk.

fluke39
09-18-2003, 11:35 AM
why have a brit play the part of an american pilot?

why not just have brits playing the parts of Bader, Park, Malan, Tamblyn, Johnson etc and centre the film around them?

then in one scene while "us brits" are discussing tactics (in the foreground of the scene) - a lone spitfire could be seen going down in smoke in the background with a vague shout for help with an american accent?

a couple of days later malan or someone could make mention that one of the americans "bought the farm" yesterday

that would be much better.



(no offence meant to any person or persons who fought /died in the BoB)

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:38 AM
LOL@fluke.

Don't think Hollywood would buy it somehow.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:39 AM
Hopperfly22 wrote:
- "The dead know only one thing...
- It's better to be alive." - Full Metal Jacket
-
-
- They gave all and deserve great respect for that.
- Yet calling a dead man a hero while good for loving
- memory purposes is about the equivilent of waiting
- till someone dies to go pay them back the $20 you
- borrowed from them.

I am sorry, but to compare heroism and for many the ultimate sacrifice to protect others and die for what they believe in to a 20 dollar bill is quite an insult.



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:45 AM
lol good one fluke

No1RAAF_Pourshot


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Ride it like ya stole it.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 11:58 AM
Typical....


Should be about Johnny Johnson, a remake of douglas bader or even 'Sailor' Malan from 74 squadron - classic opportunity for the ultimate battle between him and Kommodore 'Vati' Moelders.

http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/Malan.htm

There were enough true stories out there for a really great film - but no.

Have a look at the listings of flew and killed at the end - aussies had 14 killed out of 21!.

RAF74 Taipan

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:05 PM
as raaf-dest pointed out wolverine from X-men was indeend Hugh Jackman, an aussie (yay!) born in sydney, but with british parents, so that might qualify him to do it (but i doubt the brits want a colional to do it (unless we dress Kylie Minogue as a guy) and @ fluke39, much to my dismay and wishfull thinking JE Johnson was a little to late for much BoB action (if any) joining no616 squadron when it was at coltishall -somewhat NNE of london- for replacement pilot training)


the purrrfect person for lead role would be chris barrie (ok yes i am joking about that bit)

Konigwolf

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:21 PM
after you find a billion dollars to spend - you could pick whoever you wanted to be in it as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

money talks in hollywood fellows!

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:26 PM
EPP_Gibbs wrote:
- The BoB was won by the British because they knew
- what they were doing, and the Germans didn't.

Well I'm English, but as I understand it the Germans would have won the air war, but they switched to targetting cities, giving the RAF the breathing space it desparately needed.

As for the film, it's pretty disgusting. All the furore over Saving Private Ryan was pretty embarrassing, a great film and I couldn't see the problem with looking at D-Day from an American perspective. Then came U-571 a disgusting re-write of the facts, with a historical veneer /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif ...now we get the US winning the Battle of Britain - it's too much. What next? Dambusters with B-17s? What's so pathetic is the extent to which Hollywood is prepared to patronise the rest of America - always aiming for the lowest common denominator /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:31 PM
Oh no, not again.

it would be like making a film about 9/11 but basing it on Canary Wharf Tower in London.

"The only way to get British bums on seats is to have the disaster set in Britain....."

said a spokesperson for the film company.


sheesh.




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"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:38 PM
I'll tell you what this is all about - Tom Cruise's ego

My best guess is Tom Cruise pushed this movie idea to the studios. He wants this movie and he has the star power to get it. He is a pilot in real life and even owns his own restored P-51 Mustang (bastage) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Why wouldn't you want to make a movie out of your favorite pastime???

I am also sure he wants to reprise his 80's movie 'Top Gun' except this time in WWII.

BoB would do just fine in the box office without Tom Cruise or the fictional rescue of the Brits by some short American with big teeth.

I am American but I feel shame in knowning some big name actors and studio execs cater to the lowest common denominator, ie. 16-24yr old males that on average probably don't even know what the Battle of Britian was.

Just for the record this American knows the Britsh fought admirally against almost certain defeat from the German's 4 to 1 superiority in aircraft numbers and still ended up stopping the Germans from invading England.

You guys are my heros >S<


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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:42 PM
Wow I bet Tom Cruise downs hundredes of german planes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:43 PM
Oh please....

Hollywood really has lost it...but wait, I can see the in-depth interviews where Tom Cruise and earnest producers tell us about the research they did, the hours of study and probably whilst standing in front of a Spit with 4 prop blades. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Will we see Hurricanes? Will they allow swastikas on those naughty Nazi planes (can't say Germans just in case they offend them).

Will all Brit officers automatically have Home Counties accents and be utter swine to those awfully decent colonials?

Will .303 shred metal like cannon and radar 'sweep' around.

This is great really - we should offer our services as technical advisors and start with a major script rewrite! After all, the film producers probably think ROC is the name of a cosmetics group /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:43 PM
Boycott Hollywood crap and buy "Dark Blue World" DVD!!



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Message Edited on 09/18/0301:09PM by Cippacometa

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:48 PM
What won the Battle of Britian?

5. British reslove fueled by Hitler decideding to bomb cities.

4. British pilots making the most of the Hurricane and having the superior Spitfie.

3. The Messerschmit 109 did not have the fuel capacity to stay over the target for any appreciable amount of time.

2. Germany never developed a long range 4 engine bomber. (This would really haunt them on the Eastern Front)


and the number one reason the British prevaled.......

RADAR.

P.S. In this movie we will find out that the P-51D saved the British empire! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif



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Message Edited on 09/18/03 04:53AM by Beebop-PBNA

Message Edited on 09/18/0304:53AM by Beebop-PBNA

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:50 PM
It's Dark blue world. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:07 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- It's Dark blue world. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-

Yep!
Sorry! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Gonna edit!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:13 PM
As someone mentioned, it does seem strange that they choose the Battle of Britain to tell the story about an american pilot; the US fought a lot of interesting air-battles throughout WW2, with plenty of heroes to choose from.

I'm sorry, but this reeks a mile off of revisionist cultural propaganda... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
No offense to the average yank, who is perfectly innocent in this.
And a big F-Y to propagandist Hollywood money-movers, and inflated-ego Scientologist Tom Cruise...

As for Billy Fiske, and anyone he might have left behind; he might not have been succesful measured in kills and mission perfomance, but he made a sacrifice past "the call of duty", and should be respected as such...





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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:15 PM
I remember in a speech by George W. Bush, he stated the very interesting (but extremely concerning) fact that one in four American teenagers believe that Germany was on the side of the Americans during the second world war. The whole concept of having the US winning the Battle of Britain is completely ridiculous and laughable. It is an insult to everyone who experienced the battle. What also worries me is that any British characters in the film will either be complete snobs or, worse still, cockneys. Hollywood must stop making this rubbish.

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:20 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- Tiger tanks are all good, but you cant get them accross
- the channel, let alone up the clifs of Dover /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Lol, I've said my bit about the film but in light of that statement I just couldn't resist this.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:24 PM
You cheated, those are Panthers, not Tigers.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:25 PM
EDtheHead6445 wrote:
- What also
- worries me is that any British characters in the
- film will either be complete snobs or, worse still,
- cockneys. Hollywood must stop making this rubbish.
-


heh, ill bet Britts will play German pilots, with funny German Accents; "Ze, bloody Americanz" "Himmel, we are loozing ze war"

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:30 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- You cheated, those are Panthers, not Tigers.

Yes but Panthers are better climbers than Tigers /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:32 PM
Poprivet wrote:
- Yes but Panthers are better climbers than Tigers

That's why it's called cheating. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:33 PM
Lol, nifse. Churchill will probably be played by Alec Baldwin, from Pearl Harbor, and the Americans will fly in their P51D Mustangs. It will also have the Hollywood version of the discussion between Goering and Galland:
Goering: "What do you need to win ze battle?"
Galland: "Ein squadron of ze Mustangs"
Goering: "Ja, zei are ze best fighterz in ze world"

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:35 PM
nifse wrote:
- heh, ill bet Britts will play German pilots, with
- funny German Accents; "Ze, bloody Americanz"
- "Himmel, we are loozing ze war"

No, they will use this when Hollywood does a remake of Allo' Allo where Americans lead the French Resistance.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:44 PM
Someone else hit it right on the head ...

This is nothing more than sawed-off little T-cruise stroking his own ego ... he pushed it along

they had to make it surrounded by BoB, so as they could use british extras, making TC fit right in and seem adult in stature... if they were to use Americans, he would be lost in the crowd, my teen daughter is taller and heavier than the little fella .. not knocking the height of the average brit, but anytime TC is in a movie here, all the supporting actors are forced to either bend or lean, as to give the impression TC is taller than 5'3"

He is an A$$


I'm 6'5 .. sat in the P51 at the Crawford Museum, and if shrimpboy owns one, it must have a fonebook glued to the seat...maybe seat is removed and he flys standing up ... to him a P47 would be like a winnebago

CC

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:45 PM
If T Cruise owns a P51,WHY OH WHY can't he make he make a film about the Yanks WW2 air battles over Europe later in the war.There are plenty of P51'S flying and some B17's and P47's so it could be done really well.
I would love to see a B o B film to todays standards ,Private Ryan/Band of Brothers hard hitting reality.but NOT the Hollywood version of what DID'NT happen.
How do we petition the Hollywood idiots,make them sit up and see REALITY,our reality not theirs.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:48 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- Poprivet wrote:
-- Yes but Panthers are better climbers than Tigers
-
- That's why it's called cheating. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


But what it comes down to is which is the better swimmer? The Panther or the Tiger? Either way they would have been exhausted after swimming the 21 miles from Calais to the base of the cliffs. Unless they caught the ferry of course /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

My wife also pointed out that if they'd have used the Channel Tunnel there would be no need to swim or scale the cliffs anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://www.poprivet.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Forums/Sig/ALTERNATE2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:50 PM
I'm from the US and I have to agree. Hollywood only cares about making money and not about history. If they want to make a movie about an American hero then why not make a FACTUAL movie about Chuck Yeager or Gabby Gabreski during WW2. Instead they have to make a lame attempt at rewriting history offending true WW2 vets and generally making everyone angry. They have the resources to make a truly epic movie about an important subject but what do we get .......Tom Cruise or Ben Assflick jumping out of a B-25 or Spitfire and saving the world. What a bunch of BS!
My favorite movie about the BOB is the one that stars Michael Caine and Robert Shaw which has been remastered and released on DVD in widescreen by the way. It doesn't get any better than this. Merlins in surround sound!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:02 PM
I can't say I'm surprised as hollywood has a long reputation for this misrepresentation. To say "...an American has to be the star..." is utter bullmalarkey!

Hugh Grant (the guy Gib was talking about) is well known and would fit well.

The sad part about this is I will probably see the movie if for no other reason than the aviation interest.

Label me an "enabler". Sorry.

http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif


http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:03 PM
Dystopian wrote:
- -
- -
- As for Billy Fiske, and anyone he might have left
- behind; he might not have been succesful measured in
- kills and mission perfomance, but he made a
- sacrifice past "the call of duty", and should be
- respected as such...
-
-
-
-
-
-
------------------------------------
-
- I will agree with all here that have commented on the CRAP that Hollywierd spoonfeeds us. As I stated in another thread, the solution is simple, don't buy a ticket.

Hollywierd won't care, the mindless mass of mostly teen viewers that they make film for will still line their purses nicly.

The thing that really gets my gall is here is the way thread after thread trivalises Fiske's contribution.

Did yanks win the BoB? no,
Did they even have a serios impact on the outcome? no
Did they even have to be there in the 1st place? NO!

I wonder what the real life Fiske would feel if he could read these posts and see the obvious contempt that him sacrificing his life is held in. By the very decendents of the people he died trying to help.

I like to think that since he had enough balls to volunteer in the 1st place, he would shrug it off and still choose to do the right thing..thanks for remembering something good about a yank Dystopian.

As for Bush and 1 in 4 saying we think Germany was on our side??? lol, He did a lot of partying in school. Don't give him to much credit for accurate statements. Most of us are very aware of who are allies were, then and now. Even if they do like to have "Poke a yank in the eye" day a bit often

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:19 PM
Tom Cruise's P-51K "Montana Miss" in the warbird registry:

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/registry/p51registry/p51-4412840.html

Another good pic:

http://www.p51.mustangsmustangs.com/survivors/p51/picfiles/44-12840/44-12840_05_mk1.jpg

*bastage*

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:25 PM
Let's hope he crashes in it before he start's filming/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hot Space

An Antelope is not just a Sex Toy - But it also host's Bondage Party's on a Friday Night!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:29 PM
RedSpar...love the BoB movie clip in your sig! Fantastic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

This is going a bit overboard but we'll see if this movie has any redeeming qualities. If they do manage to portray him not as a hero but as just another pilot in a war out of control then the movie MAY have a chance at being good even if its not historically accurate in that the character he plays never shot a plane down and flew only three missions.

Another crucial requirement will be for the accurate portrayal of any dogfights...that includes markings, tactics, and relative visual accuracy.

If they do their homework...and write the script properly...we can forgoe the actual historical events related to the singular pilot but I doubt that will happen because he's supposed to be a hero. Maybe a dead one...we'll see.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:30 PM
LOL, this movie will set new standards in the realistic WW2 aerial combat. First one to ever beat Star Wars in this regard, though Pearl Harbor was extremely realistic, too. Was disappointed though, looking at those aerial scenes, I missed the sudden appearance of a TIE Fighter..

And Americans will save the world. Again. Oh no, one American. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The Brits will be p*ssed off, though. Their version is slightly different, ie. how the RAF ruled over the LW every day, leaving alone some rhetorical question then how and why could England be bombed for 10 following months, between July 1940 and May 1941.


I think I will just watch the old BoB movie again, at least that was somewhat more balanced, not just the stupid onesided hero theme.


http://vo101isegrim.piranho.com/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:38 PM
I usually ignore this kinda stuff ... but every once in a while you've gotta raise your voice: Please don't do this film like this. As an American, we don't want to do this to ourselves, nor should we Tom Cruise be allowed to do it to us.

Any story about this history should be told from the British point of view.

A poignant story could also be told from the German side, contrasting the professional-side of the pilot core against the political and tactical betrayals of the top leadership.

Something along the lines of, it's been a jolly little war. We've seen Poland, we've been to Paris, and at little expense ... and now we've only to knock the Tommies on the head, and we'll be home for Weihnachtsferien.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:42 PM
Would not sell? Did the plan to make Braveheart's William Wallace from Denver? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

E.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 02:48 PM
Next Hollywood movie: "Napoleon":

http://www.uploadit.org/files/180903-napoleone005.jpg


Who was Nelson, anyway?
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:00 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Cippacometa, for God's sake don't give them any more ideas! Hollywood is just stupid enough to take you seriously. I like it though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>http://www.poprivet.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Forums/Sig/ALTERNATE2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:09 PM
Is it safe to assume that the Germans managed to lose the war all by themselves? Or was an American involved as well?

Just asking!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:15 PM
AaronGT wrote:
-
-
- But if we put the famous ones in who are of roughly
- the right age to be fighter pilots we'd have Robert
- Carlyle, Ewan McGregor, John Hannah, and we'd have
- the Scottish winning the Battle of Britain :-)
-
-

And what is wrong with having a Scottish actor? There were lots of Scots in the RAF during BoB.

---------

Sounds like this movie is another U-xxx with the Americans capturing the Enigma machine./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/west-battleline.jpg



"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:23 PM
I could care less one way or another...the only reason I watch movies like that are for the comat sequences anyway....... I do think they could have made a better movie idf they had made it about an RAF squadron and put Billy Fiske in as a supportting character..... I like Tom Cruise...good actor...... good dad..... dumped Nicole Kidman like a hot rock when she played him......even though she is drop dead georgeous.... One thing i really hate about Hollywood now ids that they only look at one thing...$$. A film like Dark Blue World could never have been made here......and it was one of the best WW2 films in recent years.....

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:26 PM
LOL!!


Good one Dogtail!

Liege-Killer

http://home.austin.rr.com/jasandtrace/images/archie1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:32 PM
Typical Hollywood!

This film is gonna be cut RIGHT from the mold of "WindTalkers".

Why have americans in it at all? You don't have to have Americans in it.

Liege-Killer

http://home.austin.rr.com/jasandtrace/images/archie1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:46 PM
Good grief folks, from what I read elsewhere the script hasn't even been written yet and already the movie's being slammed as "unrealistic"!!! You may all very well be correct but at least get informed before you cast judgment.

Tom Cruise has a part in the production of this movie and I personally think he is very much into serious scripts these days. Hollywood did indeed make disasters such as U-571 and Pearl Harbor but it also made Saving Private Ryan, Tora, Tora, Tora and many other movies that had a good factual foundations while being entertaining at the same time. Further, the movie is based on a book proposal by Alex Kershaw who has written some good historical works about the war. For all any of you know, the movie could be wonderful. At least wait and see.

Also, hate to tell you, but Hollywood is an American industry so don't be surprised that it is making a movie about an American. The Brits have already made a movie about that battle remember, it was called "The Battle of Britain". And for those of you that don't think Billy Fiske was a hero, remember that he voluntarily gave his life fighting in a war that wasn't really his when his own country was not even involved in the conflict. He is no less a hero that any other soldier that died in that war.


Ferd-

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:54 PM
Lol- very good Cippacometa.
Did you not know that Nelson was American and that Napoleon was a lifelong member of the Nazi party with very close links with the emperor of Japan? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Great work- its always good to take this thing a quite lightly, so thanks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:09 PM
S!
Good God us U.S. citizens who have any respect for history must figure a way out to stop hollywood. Just reading the article is a total insult the the British pilots who fought and died in the BoB. I must admit that I am not huge expert on BoB, i mostly get focus on the luftwaffe and its pilots as indivduals. But to think the Americans won the BoB is outrageous. Make note that there was a small american influence there in the eagle squad, but thats it. I loved the orginal BoB film, (never play it enoguh here in the states! and still looking for it on dvd) and i was hoping they were remaking that with just more special effects and bigger battle scenes. Looks like hollywood has let everyone down again. And Jeez Tom Cruise, there has to be someone better, i dont think that guy can even tell the difference between a spitfire and a Lancaster. To the vetrans and families of veterans from the BoB, i apologise in advanced for our filmakers utter lack of respect to history.

Watsup

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:14 PM
Ferdinand_L wrote:
- Good grief folks, from what I read elsewhere the
- script hasn't even been written yet and already the
- movie's being slammed as "unrealistic"!!! You may
- all very well be correct but at least get informed
- before you cast judgment.
-
- Tom Cruise has a part in the production of this
- movie and I personally think he is very much into
- serious scripts these days. Hollywood did indeed
- make disasters such as U-571 and Pearl Harbor but it
- also made Saving Private Ryan, Tora, Tora, Tora and
- many other movies that had a good factual
- foundations while being entertaining at the same
- time. Further, the movie is based on a book
- proposal by Alex Kershaw who has written some good
- historical works about the war. For all any of you
- know, the movie could be wonderful. At least wait
- and see.
-
- Also, hate to tell you, but Hollywood is an American
- industry so don't be surprised that it is making a
- movie about an American. The Brits have already
- made a movie about that battle remember, it was
- called "The Battle of Britain". And for those of
- you that don't think Billy Fiske was a hero,
- remember that he voluntarily gave his life fighting
- in a war that wasn't really his when his own country
- was not even involved in the conflict. He is no
- less a hero that any other soldier that died in that
- war.
-
-
- Ferd-

Well it's going to be unrealistic because if they make it realistic it's going to be a very boring movie since he only flew 3 sorties, scored no kills and while flying his 3rd sortie he crashlanded and died.

I respect him for volunteering to the cause and he is no less of a person then all the other veterans.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:14 PM
So they are not Tigers OR Panthers they are err...cheetahs!
*groan*

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:22 PM
charlie19sqn wrote:
- So they are not Tigers OR Panthers they are
- err...cheetahs!
- *groan*

It's German so it would be called Gepard. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But they already have one of those, fortunally not during WWII. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.militaryhobbies.ca/custom/productzoom/tm35099.jpg


<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:28 PM
Poprivet wrote:
- Cippacometa, for God's sake don't give them any more
- ideas! Hollywood is just stupid enough to take you
- seriously. I like it though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Hi hi hii!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Also your spider-tanks were not bad at all!!!!!
I'm still ROTFLLL !!!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:49 PM
AaronGT wrote:
- I talked to my wife about this (she's from Texas,
- I'm
- English) and she wasn't offended. She said anyone
- who
- believes it is reality is stupid. It worries me that
- there are many stupid people out there, sadly. Maybe
- education isn't what it used to be, but then it
- probably
- never was. Her father's father flew B17s in Europe,
- though,
- and her mother's father, also a qualified pilot,
- somehow
- ended up in the infantry fighting across north west
- Europe.
-
-

I think the respect to the history and the past heros should be essential!!!!!!
Movie:U-571 is already a joke!

***********
<img src=http://jackly.cpgl.net/bbs/attachment.php?s=&postid=19249>
It's Real, It's Fun!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:23 PM
This is not to throw more flames (...well, maybe yes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ), but just to keep on "USA movies changing history", I remember having read somewhere an american article over the last movie of Roberto Benigni "Pinocchio".

In his article (that I can't find anymore, sorry, but trust me!) this american journalist claimed that Benigni's movie was not respecting the REAL AND ORIGINAL Pinocchio's story from... Walt Disney !!!!!!!!!!!!

I had my jaw falling down when I read this!! So sad!!
I mean:

"Pinocchio", Walt Disney Cartoons, USA 1940:


http://www.miowebitalia.com/desktop/cartoni/pag3/pinocchio.JPG



"Le Avventure di Pinocchio", Carlo Collodi, Italia 1881:


http://www.pinocchio.it/media/carlo/avvpino.jpg


This is another example of how USA cinema (and sometimes medias) wish to change reality! This one is just a small stupid thing, but if you put them all together...
For all those american fellows here that are also aware (and worried!!) of that, please do something!!!!



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

Message Edited on 09/19/0309:26AM by Cippacometa

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:07 PM
only question is

why the hell tom cruise? another pretty boy adventure rewrite .id drop a twenty that the leading lady has collogenated lips!!!

MAD

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:17 PM
One thing you all may not have considered about why they're not using a brit in this role: possibly Tom C was the only truly stupid actor they could get into their probably horrible movie. We all know Tommy-boy would star in a commercial if they could make him look heroic. And what self respecting Briton (is that the correct term? Sorry if it ain't) would take part in a movie that so glaringly disrespects the memory of The Few?

Even Americans know that Hollywood is a tumor.


SSgt Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Forums!
-Accept Follow-on Patches and stuff!
-Take the Fight Online!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:43 PM
I love armchair quarterbacks.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:51 PM
Are americans so shallow that they wont watch a film if no american is in the leading role? Band of brothers - Plenty of british actors playing americans. Damien Lewis who played the main character Maj Winters is English. Black Hawk Down - Jason Isaacs, another Brit played Capt Steele.

Are american actors incapable of playing british characters. Or will hollywood just not let them. It really is pathetic. People are more influenced by fims than the history channel. In 20 years time, it wont suprise me if children think that america fought ww2 by themselves

In reality 12 americans fought in BoB. Yes they played their part and did their best and it helped, but it was nothing if you look at the whole story

Message Edited on 09/18/0305:53PM by Jimmy_Saville

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:58 PM
As much as it pains me to say this, Hollywood doesn't have exclusive control of rewrite-history-o-vision. Just look at the british film "Breaking the Sound Barrier" which was released in the US sometime after Chuck Yeager's X-1 adventure (he was in the premiere audience).

The film featured a pilot using a Spitfire (that well know supersonic fighter!) to break the speed of sound. Apparently the guy next to Chuck Yeager loadly complained, "God-d*mn, where was uncle sam?"

"Address tae an Auld Spitfire"
Arthur Smith.

Whit' maks' ye look sae sad and lost, Auld Spitfire: Whit's the maitter?
These Jets beside ye canna' boast o' Deeds like yours, or better.
You've had yur' Day and proved yur' Worth, in Fearless, Firm Formation,
And smashed Armadas o' The North, tae save an Island Nation.

Don't pout yur' 'Prop', nor wilt yur' Wings because the people pass ye
Tae look at Supersonic Things wha's vanities harass ye.
When Tyranny, at Freedom's Door, in Armoured Might, wis knockin',
Ye made a Nation's 'Finest 'Our' - The Tyrant's Blade wis Broken.

Though streakin' Jets reflect the sun - The people don't forget ye. -
You're staunin noo on Hallowed Grun', - A Monument we've set ye.
You've banked and Spun, at Battle's height when greater numbers matched ye,
And cleared the skies o' Fascist Blight, while Freedom lovers watched ye.

Noo au' yur' Supersonic Brood kin' frolic, frisk and play
In skies where once in balance stood, The Scales o' Destiny.
-Yur' youthful Dash, and Fortitude, and sense o' Service - True.
-Has won the lastin' Gratitude 'o' mony for The Few'.

Ye seem tae ken' yon man that walks, on artificial Limb. -
-He strokes yur' side, and gently talks - YE SEEM TAE TALK TAE HIM
-Ye seem tae me, withoot a doot', attached tae yin' anither:-
-Ye maun' hae much to talk aboot. -Ah'll leave ye baith the gither.

Message Edited on 09/18/0305:59PM by Sierra_Delta

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:12 PM
I think Billy Fiske was a hero for his call to duty in a country where he was not a native citizen and this should be shown in the film. He was a hero for his commitment on the side of freedom.

I hope they do not make Billy Fiske into a BOB multi-kill ace that would just be wrong and changing history for entertainment's sake. But as many have mentioned this would not be the first Hollywood film to do this about WWII. I think it would be a foul mark on a courageous man's memory to do such a thing. I guess we can only see what the final cut of the film will be like.

Here is the real story of Billy Fiske (http://www.fiske.clara.net/billy_fiske.htm)!

Like someone has already mentioned if they want an American Ace why not choose one of these to make a film about.

Eddie Rickenbacker of WWI fame or the following (there are plenty to choose from):

Top Navy Aces (12+ Kills) Kills Medals Squadron Plane
David McCampbell 34.0 MH VF-15 F6F
Cecil E. Harris 24.0 NC VF-18 F6F
Eugene Valencia 23.0 NC VF-9 F6F
Alexander Vraciu 19.0 NC VF-6/VF-16 F6F
Cornelius N. Nooy 19.0 NC VF-31 F6F
Patrick D. Fleming 19.0 NC VF-80 F6F
Douglas Baker 16.3 SS VF-20 F6F
Ira Cassius "Ike" Kepford 16.0 NC VF-17 F4U
Charles R. Stimpson 16.0 NC VF-11 F4F/F6F
Arthur R. Hawkins 14.0 NC VF-31 F6F
John L. Wirth 14.0 NC VF-31 F6F
Lt. Elbert McCuskey 13.5 NC VF-3/VF-42/VF-8 F4F/F6F
George C. Duncan 13.5 - VF-15 F6F
Roy W. Rushing 13.0 - VF-15 F6F
John R. Strane 13.0 - VF-15 F6F
Dan R. Rehm 13.0 AM VF-8/VF-50 F6F
Wendell V. Twelves 13.0 - VF-15 F6F
James A. Shirley 12.5 - VF-27 F6F
Daniel A. Carmichael Jr. 12.0 - VF-2/VBF-12 F6F
Roger R. Hedrick 12.0 DFC VF-17/VF-84 F4U
William J. Masoner Jr. 12.0 - VF-19/VF-11 F6F
Hamilton McWhorter III 12.0 - VF-9/VF-12 F6F
P. L. Kirkwood 12.0 - VF-10 F4U/F6F

Other Noted Navy Aces Kills Medals Unit Plane
Frederick E. Bakutis 11.0 - VF-20 F6F
John T. "Tom" Blackburn 11.0 NC VF-17 F4U
James B. French 11.0 - VF-9 F6F
William A. Dean, Jr. 11.0 - VF-2 F6F
Donald E. Runyon 11.0 NC VF-6 F4F
Stanley W. "Swede" Vejtasa 10.3 NC VF-10 F4F
Harris A. Mitchell 10.0 - VF-9 F6F
Whitey Feightner 9.0 - VF-10/VF-8 F4F/F6F
Arthur Van Haren, Jr. 9.0 DFC VF-2 F6F
Ralph E. Elliott 9.0 - VC-27 FM-2
Butch Voris 8.0 DFC VF-2 F6F
Edward "Butch" O'Hare 7.0 MH VF-3 F4F

Top USMC Aces of WW2 Kills Medals Squadron Plane
Joseph Foss 26.0 MH VMF-121 F4F
Robert M. Hanson 25.0 MH VMF-215 F4U
Gregory "Pappy" Boyington 22.0 MH VMF-214 F4U
Kenneth Walsh 21.0 MH VMF-124 F4U
Donald N. Aldrich 20.0 NC VMF-215 F4U
John L. Smith 19.0 MH VMF-223 F4F
Marion E. Carl 18.5 NC VMF-223 F4F
Wilbur J. Thomas 18.5 NC VMF-213 F4U
James E. Swett 15.5 MH VMF-221 F4F
F4U
Harold L. Spears 15.0 DFC VMF-215 F4U
Archie Glenn Donahue 14.0 DFC VMF-112 F4U
James N. Cupp 13.0 NC VMF-213 F4U
Robert E. Galer 13.0 MH VMF-224 F4F
William P. Marontate 13.0 NC VMF-121 F4F
Edward O. Shaw 13.0 DFC VMF-213 F4U
Kenneth D. Frazier 12.5 NC VMF-223 F4F
Loren D. Everton 12.0 NC VMF-212 F4F
Harold E. Segal 12.0 DFC VMF-221 F4U
Other Noted Marine Aces Kills Medals Squadron Plane
Harold W. Bauer 11.0 MH VMF-212 F4F
Chris Magee 9.0 NC VMF-214 F4U
Jefferson DeBlanc 9.0 MH VMF-112 F4F
Robert Wade 8.0 NC VMF-323 F4U
John Bolt 6.0 NC VMF-214 F4U
R. Bruce Porter 5.0 DFC VMF-121
VMF(N)-542 F4U
F6F
VMF-214 Black Sheep Aces 5+ - VMF-214 F4U
VMF-323 Death Rattlers 5+ - VMF-323 F4U

Name Kills Medals Unit Plane
Francis "Gabby" Gabreski 28.0 DSC 56FG P-47
Robert S. Johnson 27.0 DSC 56FG P-47
George Preddy 26.8 DSC 352FG P-51
John C. Meyer 24.0 DSC 352FG P-51
Ray Wetmore 22.6 DSC 359FG P-51
David C. Schilling 22.5 DSC 56FG P-47
Dominic Gentile 21.8 DSC 4FG P-47
Fred J. Christensen 21.5 SS 56FG P-47
Walker M. 'Bud' Mahurin 20.8 DSC 56FG P-47
Glenn E. Duncan 19.5 DSC 353FG P-47
Duane W. Beeson 19.3 DSC 4FG P-47
Leonard 'Kit' Carson 18.5 SS 357FG P-51
Glenn T. Eagleston 18.5 DSC 354FG P-51
Walter C. Beckham 18.0 DSC 353FG P-47
John Godfrey 18.0 SS 4FG P-51
Col. Hubert 'Hub' Zemke 17.8 DSC 56FG P-47
Lt. Col. John B. England 17.5 SS 357FG P-51
John F. Thornell Jr. 17.2 DSC 352FG P-51
Henry W. Brown 17.2 DSC 355FG P-51
Robert W. Foy 17.0 SS 357FG P-51
Gerald W. Johnson 17.0 DSC 56FG P-47
Ralph 'Kid' Hofer 16.5 DFC 4FG P-51
Clarence 'Bud' Anderson 16.3 LM 357FG P-51
Donald M. Beerbower 15.5 DSC 354FG -
Don Blakeslee 15.5 DSC 4FG P-51
Richard A. Peterson 15.5 SS 357FG P-51
William Whisner 15.5 DSC 352FG P-51
Jack T. Bradley 15.0 DSC 354FG -
James A. Goodson 15.0 DSC 4FG P-47
Donald Bochkay 14.8 DFC 357FG P-51
Joe H. Powers Jr. 14.5 SS 56FG P-47
Bruce Carr 14.0 DSC 354FG -
Kenneth H. Dahlberg 14.0 DSC 354FG -
Wallace N. Emmer 14.0 DSC 354FG -
Arthur F. Jeffrey 14.0 SS 479FG -
Donald Strait 13.5 SS 356FG P-51
Donald S. Bryan 13.3 DSC 352FG P-51
George Carpenter 13.3 DFC 4FG P-47
Willard W. Millikan 13.0 DSC 4FG P-47
Glennon T. Moran 13.0 SS 352FG P-51
Robert W. Stephens 13.0 SS 354FG -
Felix D. Williamson 13.0 DSC 56FG P-47
Lowell K. Brueland 12.5 DSC 354FG -
Paul A. Conger 12.5 DSC 56FG P-47
James C. Stewart 12.5 DSC 56FG P-47
Quince L. Brown 12.3 - 78FG -
Clyde B. East 12.0 - 10PRG P-51
George W. Gleason 12.0 - 479FG P-51
Howard Hively 12.0 - 4FG P-51
Pierce W. McKennon 12.0 - 4FG P-51
Robin Olds 12.0 SS 479FG P-51
Michael J. Quirk 12.0 - 56FG P-47
LeRoy A. Schreiber 12.0 - 56FG P-47
Nick Megura 11.8 - 4FG P-51
Chuck Yeager 11.5 DSC 357FG P-51
Louis Norley 11.3 - 4FG P-51
Other Noted ETO Aces Kills Medals Unit Plane
Urban Drew 6.0 - 361FG P-51

Name Kills Medals Unit Plane
Richard I. Bong 40.0 MH 49FG P-38
Thomas McGuire 38.0 MH 475FG P-38
Charles MacDonald 27.0 DSC 475FG P-38
Gerald R. Johnson 22.0 DSC 49FG P-38
Neel Kearby 22.0 MH 348FG P-47
Jay T. Robbins 22.0 DSC 8FG P-38
Robert Westbrook 20.0 - 18FG P-38
Thomas J. Lynch 20.0 DSC 35FG P-38
David Lee "Tex" Hill 18.25 SS AVG/23FG P-40, P-51
Chuck Older 18.0 DFC AVG/23FG P-40, P-51
John C. Herbst 18.0 - 23FG/CBI P-51
William D. Dunham 16.0 - 348FG P-47
Bill Harris 16.0 - 18FG P-38
George S. Welch 16.0 DSC 8FG -
Edward "Porky" Cragg 15.0 - 8FG P-38
Cyril F. Homer 15.0 - 8FG P-38
John D. Landers 14.5 - see below
Landers scored 6 in the PTO flying P-40s, and 8.5 in the ETO flying P-51s
Robert M. DeHaven 14.0 SS 49FG P-40
Edward O. McComas 14.0 - 118RCN/CBI -
Daniel T. Roberts Jr. 14.0 DSC 475FG P-38
John F. Hampshire 13.0 - 23FG/CBI P-40
Bruce K. Holloway 13.0 - 23FG/CBI P-40
Cotesworth B. Head Jr. 12.0 - 18FG P-38
Kenneth G. Ladd 12.0 - 8FG P-38
James A. Watkins 12.0 - 49FG P-38
Richard L. West 12.0 - 8FG P-40
Francis J. Lent 11.0 SS 475FG P-38
John S. Loisel 11.0 SS 475FG P-38
John W. Mitchell 11.0 - 18FG P-38
Murray "Jim" Shubin 11.0 DSC 347FG P-38
OTHER NOTED USAAF PTO/CBI FLIERS:
Bill Shomo 8.0 MH 82TRS P-51
Boyd "Buzz" Wagner 8.0 DSC 1FG P-40
John Alison 6.0 DSC 23FG/CBI P-40
Tom Lanphier 4.5 NC 347FG P-38
Rex Barber 5.0 NC 347FG P-38
Paul Tibbets - DSC 509CG B-29
The Flying Tigers

Top Aces of the MTO Kills Medals Unit Plane
Lance Wade 23.0 DSO RAF 145 Sqn Spitfire
John Voll 21.0 DSC 31FG P-51
Herschel "Herky" Green 18.0 DSC 325FG P-47
James S. "Sully" Varnell 17.0 SS 52FG P-51
Samuel J. Brown 15.0 - 31FG P-51
Robert C. Curtis 14.0 - 52FG P-51
James L. Brooks 13.0 - 31FG P-51
Harry A. Parker 13.0 - 325FG P-51
Michael Brezas 12.0 - 14FG P-38
Levi Chase 12.0 SS 33FG P-40
William J. Sloan 12.0 - 82FG P-38
Norman C. Skogstad 12.0 - 31FG P-51
William Leverette 11.0 DSC 14FG P-38
Robert J. Goebel 11.0 SS 31FG P-51
Charles M. McCorkle 11.0 - 31FG P-51

Other Noted MTO Pilots Kills Medals Unit Plane
Jack Ilfrey 7.5 SS 1FG P-38
Lee Archer 4.5 DFC 332FG P-51

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:21 PM
Precisely - He volunteered to help us - A very brave thing to do. Theres no shame at all in the fact he didnt get any kills. Why change history? A fim based around the eagle sqn would be fine, even though there wouldnt be many kills. These could be provided by the brits and others. The film could start with the news in america that europe is at war, then the headlines of the papers as the germans conquer europe. Then the stories of the 12 men and why the decide to volunteer. Their training in the raf. It would make a good fact based film

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:22 PM
AdiGlunz wrote:
- Is it safe to assume that the Germans managed to
- lose the war all by themselves?

Yes Adi, almost spot on there. The upper echelons of the german war machine - the nazis - had two glaring faults that helped to turn the tide of war against germany: pride and culture of fear. Although there are many examples throughout WW2 let me use BoB as an example.

Luftwaffe intelligence was flawed. I believe the culture of fear present in the third reich was, to a greater part, to blame for this. Why tell your leaders something that they wont want to hear if you fear what they will do to you? (That is not an attack on the likes of Adolf Galland, all due respect to the bloke, he was fair and honest, and a fantastic leader too). Goering was known to pander to Hitler. My guess is Goering was not aware of the true picture either, because people feared him.

The Luftwaffes shift to bombing London happened because Churchill used an opportunity to manipulate the german high command by hurting their pride. The opportunity? A lone Heinkel bomber crew dropped their 'eggs' over what they thought was countryside, only under the cloud lay London (prior to this only military targets had been attacked, because of strict orders to that effect). Churchill knew of the extreme pressure the RAF airfields were under - a few more weeks of that and it would mean the end of effective RAF opposition. So he ordered an immediate retaliatory strike on Berlin itself (if you like, a 'slap in the face'). This was designed to enrage Hitler, Goering et al, and cause the subsequent change in targets. The RAF got the respite they badly needed.

None of this b.t.w. is meant to belittle the supreme efforts of Park or Dowding, or indeed anyone else for that matter.

BobTuck.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:28 PM
This is all very depressing.

If the project needs an an American lead actor to "put bums on seats", why did Speilberg & Co choose a British actor for the lead in 'Band Of Brothers' - hardly a ratings disaster....

Of course this could all turn out to a critically acclaimed masterpiece that truly reflects the horrors of war by not utilising a battle scene - it would save a fortune on SFX too. The true story of Billy Fiske would truly represent the human cost of war and enable younger generations to appreciate the sacrifices made by ordinary men and women who shared a common cause all those years ago.

Somehow, I doubt that this will be the case.

LoneStarAce, that was a great post.

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/150903-Screensig.jpg

Whirlwind Whiner - First Of The Few

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:35 PM
nifse wrote:
- hmmm maybe Jude Law?

Yes. I wasn't being entirely serious. Sean Bean also
springs to mind. And no doubt the usual suspects such
as Ian Holm would be on hand to play Dowding, Park, etc.
But then we'd just have a remake of the 1960s film,
and really I think that was a good film (a bit dated in
places) but doesn't need to be remade.

Now another Dambusters film might have some merit...
That would be best done after panto series, as there
seem to be enough antipodean soap stars in the UK
then to the pilots from Oz/NZ in 617 :-)

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:44 PM
Cippacometa wrote:
- buy "Dark Blue World" DVD!!

Something I intend to do now I have a DVD drive in my
PC as my wife would be bored by a WW2 film. It's nice
to see a film recognise the contribution of Eastern
Europe to the defence during BoB. My wife is 1/4 Polish,
and her countrymen on that side of her family did wonders.
(Many of her Polish relatives died in WW2. Being recent
converts from Judaism didn't save them from the concentration camps...)

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:45 PM
Against Hollywood.

But I wanna watch technical improvement over Pearl Harbor.

Maybe after that film shown, we'll see many 'default' 'mad' at online.

If Oleg publish BOB add-on on time, he'll be millionaire. (was he already?)
Just need a few models of spitfire and strait of Dover map!

At the same time, many American crap-WW-II simulations will burst out to the game market. Maybe Jane's BOB on Xbox? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

=======================================
Athlon XP 3200+, FIC AU13 MOBO, DDR 1024M, GeForce4ti4200,
MCP-T SoundStorm, Seagate Barracuda IV 7200rpm 60G HDD,
Yes,I got TrackIR/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , Two M$ SW Pr2(weird but good HOTAS.Bill,let sticks be made!)

=815=Squadron in South Korea
http://cafe.daum.net/il2sturmovik

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:58 PM
Why don't you whinners find out from the production company why certain actors were picked?

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 08:42 PM
mor54 wrote:
- Why don't you whinners find out from the production
- company why certain actors were picked?

It's whiners not whinners, and I don't care who plays in a movie.
We are mostly whining about the movie going to be fictional but is being passed as historic to the public.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 08:42 PM
mor54 wrote:
- Why don't you whinners find out from the production
- company why certain actors were picked?

Yeah, whatever.

For the record I want it known that I'm a Yank.

If this movie is anything less than completely faithful to the real history of the heroic efforts of those who fought to save Britain and thereby gave the Allies the chance to save the world, then it will be total crap!

The American pilots contribution to the BoB, while noble and heroic, was insignificant.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 08:49 PM
It's American made, there for it will be rewritten to make it look like the USA fought the battle of britain there for it is going to be utter

BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!!

Once again hollywood rips an important part of history, you f'kin tossers

Or is it because you dont have any history???

"Tom Cruise playes Billy Fiske - the hero who in reality flew 3 missions, got no kills and crash landed and was killed." HTF does this work, your odolising someone who is pretty crap



This is not aimed at the sensible American who can appriciate none american upset over this matter

THose who can appriciate our upset and agree i salute you

Message Edited on 09/18/0308:56PM by Arm_slinger

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 08:55 PM
I've found out more about the cast:

Arnold Schwarzeneger as Winston Churchill
"Ze battle ov France iz ofer,zer battle ov Britain iss about to begin....up and at zem!"

Mel Brooks as Adolf Hitler
"Heil myself!"

Eddie Murphy as Herman Goerring
"What you mean f***ing Spitfires Galland you jive mofo'! Don't you be f***ing with me now! We in some serious s**t a**hole!"

Jim Carrey as Galland
"Wipe out the Royal Air Force in 6 weeks..oh reaaaaallllyyy!"

Anna Nicole Smith as Dame Vera Lynn
she sings "We'll meet again" and shows her norks a lot.

Gollum as Sir Hugh Dowding
"You cannot waste my airforces over France no mores,you cannot waste my...preciousssss!"

I'm sure it will be along the same accurate lines as other docudramas from Hollywood "U571" and "Pearl Harbour".

If they try and remake "The Dambusters" I say we invade Hollywood.We can do it,I've got an air rifle and I know where we can get hold of a microlight!

Bo_Nidle

Get my skins at: www.mudmovers.com (http://www.mudmovers.com) and www.il2skins.com (http://www.il2skins.com)

http://www.orangeneko.com/rik/thumbs/flashbn.jpg

"You've got to treat your kite like you treat your woman! Get inside her 10 times a day and take her to heaven and back!"Lord Flashheart RFC 1917.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:00 PM
ROFL ROFL and ROFL again

I agree, i got an airrifle as well, i'll join ya /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:10 PM
1969 BoB on DVD

Watsup, I've just bought it at Amazon for under $12

ps And its been digitally remastered AND widescreen

pps but it seems that they've changed the best bit of soundtrack, the final fight sequence (Adler Tag?)

Regards


To come a close second in a fight to the death....

..is not a desirable position to be in!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:14 PM
Too funny.

To strike the proper tone, I suggest Roan Atkinson as TC's CO, Captain Blackadder!

It stinks that they're giving the BoB the PH treatment.

Besides being too short, too popular, too snotty and too American for the role, doesn't anyone else think TC is a teeny bit old to be a pilot in the BoB - he's 41, gosh dang it.

I thought most BoB pilots were in the 20-25 y/o range.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:31 PM
- The Luftwaffes shift to bombing London happened
- because Churchill used an opportunity to manipulate
- the german high command by hurting their pride. The
- opportunity? A lone Heinkel bomber crew dropped
- their 'eggs' over what they thought was countryside,
- only under the cloud lay London (prior to this only
- military targets had been attacked, because of
- strict orders to that effect). Churchill knew of the
- extreme pressure the RAF airfields were under - a
- few more weeks of that and it would mean the end of
- effective RAF opposition. So he ordered an immediate
- retaliatory strike on Berlin itself (if you like, a
- 'slap in the face').

If you look at the timetable of the BoB, it's clear that this was not the case.

The Luftwaffe "accidentaly" bombed London on the 24th of August. The RAF retaliated on the 25th of August.

Casualties for the preceeding week were:

Date RAF Luft
19th 3 6
20th 2 6
21st 1 12
22nd 5 2
23rd 0 5
24th 22 38
25th 16 20


As you can see, it followed a quiet period, during which the RAF had been comfortably outscoring the Luftwaffe.
In fact, the Luftwaffe did not begin large scale attacks on the main fighter airfields in 11 group until the 24th August.

Things did not become really serious for the RAF until the first week of August, a week after the RAF started bombing Berlin.

There are also other reasons the Luftwaffe began bombing London. One, it was always intended as part of their campaign, to draw RAF fighters in to a target they had to defend. Two, Luftwaffe kill claims were so high, Luftwaffe intelligence thought the RAF was almost eliminated. They believed that a final battle over London would destroy the RAF. Thirdly, whilst the RAF were suffering unsustainable losses during the last week of August and the first of September, the Luftwaffe were under the same pressure.

The tactic of multiple small raids meant each raid had to be escorted by 3 fighters to every bomber, which meant only 200 or so bombers over Britain per day. With the decline in 109 numbers, the Germans were facing a situation where their attacks would weaken every day.

In the week 12th - 19th August, originally intended to destroy the RAF, the Luftwaffe flew 3000 operational fighter sorties. For their second attempt, in the last week of August, they flew 3900 sorties. In the first week of September, that declined to 3200, and in the second week of September, they only managed 1400.

It's perfectly true that if the Luftwaffe could have kept up the same level of pressure as they applied August 24th - September 6th, they would have won the battle. But it's also true that the Luftwaffe could not keep up that pressure.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:40 PM
...too fuggin' funny, I didn't realize that BOB was the turning point for Britain's future survival. BOB (emphasis on battle, not war) was a great victory for you tea and crumpet eaters, but had the Americans not jumped in to prevent your doom (you know it's true), there would be no UK as you know it today, however good/bad you think it is. A real British soldier or airman that fought in WW2 would be appalled at the comments being tossed around in here by its' own countryman that don't know squat about those atrocious years. Those soldiers had the good sense to know it was a united effort between the UK and US that eventually preserved the UK. I for one will never forget that alot American blood was spilled far away from home to help out our past friends (and future ingrates). Unfortunately, this is becoming dangerously forgotten by arrogant young individuals with baseless opinions, living in much different times.

About the movie....who gives a rats arse! It is only entertainment. Don't like it? Don't watch it...that is the great thing about choice. I have watched films on the BBC that I could only stomach for about 15 seconds so don't give me your "only in America" garbage! I think each country puts out it's fair share of crap....

mucker

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:00 PM
mucker wrote:
- ...too fuggin' funny, I didn't realize that BOB was
- the turning point for Britain's future survival. BOB
- (emphasis on battle, not war) was a great victory
- for you tea and crumpet eaters, but had the
- Americans not jumped in to prevent your doom (you
- know it's true), there would be no UK as you know it
- today, however good/bad you think it is. A real
- British soldier or airman that fought in WW2 would
- be appalled at the comments being tossed around in
- here by its' own countryman that don't know squat
- about those atrocious years. Those soldiers had the
- good sense to know it was a united effort between
- the UK and US that eventually preserved the UK. I
- for one will never forget that alot American blood
- was spilled far away from home to help out our past
- friends (and future ingrates). Unfortunately, this
- is becoming dangerously forgotten by arrogant young
- individuals with baseless opinions, living in much
- different times.

First off, Mr. Noob Geekboy, we are not an arrogant "young" individuals. The average age of people here is something like 36. I'm 40 and a Yank. And I and most everybody else here on these boards are well aware of America's contribution in the War. I'd venture to say judging by the quality of your post that we know a sh!tload more than you since you don't seem to be able to draw the line between the events of the BoB and when Americans started fighting on the Continent. Had the British not won this mere "battle" there would have been no place to stage the operations that you talk about which, of course, took place later in the war.

So, before you come in here thinking you're gonna tell us what's up you should realize that when it comes to knowing about the history of WWII there are people here who would so thoroughly kick the sh!t out of your a$$ on the subject it'd make yer momma cry.
-
- About the movie....who gives a rats arse! It is only
- entertainment. Don't like it? Don't watch it...that
- is the great thing about choice. I have watched
- films on the BBC that I could only stomach for about
- 15 seconds so don't give me your "only in America"
- garbage! I think each country puts out it's fair
- share of crap....

Yeah, talk about perpetuating B.S.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:09 PM
Ooooo....ouch...oooo...ouch...boy that really hurt Lil***** (or is it Mr. know-it-all?). Make my momma cry? I'd make you cry hard before that happened.....

mucker

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:12 PM
mucker wrote:
- Ooooo....ouch...oooo...ouch...boy that really hurt
- Lil***** (or is it Mr. know-it-all?). Make my momma
- cry? I'd make you cry hard before that happened.....

It may be little but I done yer momma with it.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:15 PM
...40 year old Yank you are?...you are indeed the poster child of why the world thinks Americans are lame...

Threadcap is probably a good idea at this point....

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:18 PM
mucker wrote:
- ...40 year old Yank you are?...you are indeed the
- poster child of why the world thinks Americans are
- lame...
-
- Threadcap is probably a good idea at this point....

LOL! You wish there'd be a "threadcap". They call 'em locks here. Maybe you should lurk a little more, post a little less.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:22 PM
mucker, you seem a sensible chap ( tea and crumpets! lol ) i agree with some of your comments and the point about the men and women who fought , excellent point!.
Alas im British and would be increasingly upset if the movie makers where to call it the few, you know that this Fiske is going to rescue britain against the onslaught of nazi germany!!, it all stinks of U571 all over you must admit? like you said youngsters have bad views ( not all, my son will never be allowed to forget), but big budget films that portray inacuracies about British history are bound to upset people, yes as an island maybe we would never have held out against the Nazis, but my friend, we are a very proud nation, with a long line of military victories and also defeats, but in the main a very proud tradition!, we are firm friends with america and believe that it will never waiver!!,.
That is because when push comes to shove, we back each other, and in these times its a friendship we both need.
Please dont take my post the wrong way, i dont post much only read, but i can see why people will get very upset about this film!!
me included!! bad show old chap !! wot wot.....

*note to self* :- was i being over polite dear chap?

Message Edited on 09/18/0309:25PM by Ferret71

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:22 PM
There's an art to trolling mucker, but I think you might be too stupid to grasp it ...well, keep practicing you might improve http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:23 PM
Are you really 40 Lil*****? I could just imagine "over 500 posts" of your boring, **********, ranting and ravings. Do you have a life little guy? Keep blowing away because it's evident you do that best....You should stop posing as an intellegent adult on these boards....

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:30 PM
Rik Mayall is the Brit we need in the starring role!

http://www.orangeneko.com/rik/thumbs/flashbn.jpg

Since Hollywood is going to turn it into a lowest common denominator 'we kick A$$ on the world' joke anyway, we might as well have a comedian in the leading role /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Dennis

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:33 PM
ROFL you troll, we did not need the Americans at all in our battle. The only americans we had where the ones who wanted to se action, you did not prevent the downfall of britain, it was our reserve courage and valour that did. If any thing we owe our nation the Poles they are the ones that helped,not you so shhh go back and learn some history.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:34 PM
Fish was on for a bit of a fight don't you think? I am getting better. Yes Ferret, teamwork is what it is all about. I salute the brave men and women of UK who fight on to preserve peace and goodwill throughout the world. There were better days when we could call each other friends. Movies are movies. I don't believe in movies or actors. Who would be stupid enough to mix a movie with reality (or for that matter CNN and reality)

mucker

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:19 AM
Dystopian wrote:
- As someone mentioned, it does seem strange that they
- choose the Battle of Britain to tell the story about
- an american pilot; the US fought a lot of
- interesting air-battles throughout WW2, with plenty
- of heroes to choose from.
-
- I'm sorry, but this reeks a mile off of revisionist
- cultural propaganda... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
- No offense to the average yank, who is perfectly
- innocent in this.
- And a big F-Y to propagandist Hollywood
- money-movers, and inflated-ego Scientologist Tom
- Cruise...
-
- As for Billy Fiske, and anyone he might have left
- behind; he might not have been succesful measured in
- kills and mission perfomance, but he made a
- sacrifice past "the call of duty", and should be
- respected as such...
-
-
-


Tom probably liked the story, but knew he wasn't a good enough actor to adopt a believable British accent. Make the main character American - accent problem solved.





Message Edited on 09/18/0308:45PM by grist

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:27 AM
Just more hollywood horse pucky....I'm 100% American and refuse to watch this California claptrap!!!!!!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:31 AM
LMFAO Arm Slinger.....if the Soviets and the US didn't destroy most all the German assets...the little island the tea drinkers call home would have been completely overrun. We didn't have to go to Britain to fight moron! How's that for history sucker?

mucker

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:55 AM
You didn't like the Aegis class cruisers being bombed by Japanese planes?

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:02 AM
I think we need to relax for the time being. We don't know anything about the film and are already bashing it. I don't think a script has even been made yet. If the movie IS anything like that SkyNews article says it'll be, it will be a complete shame. I think they could make an emotional and gripping movie about Fiske without making him some uber action hero. His exploits might've not of been glamorous, but it was the thought that counted and that's all they could've ever asked for.

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg


Message Edited on 09/18/0308:04PM by necrobaron

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:03 AM
I think it is interesting /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

History has been so distorted in so many ways. Look at all the WW2 titles on the bookshelves, and how many have some bias and a lot of heresay information?

Let's face it the movies...the overnight romp in the sack, with the near naked actors, and all the filthy gibberish has nothing to do with the development of the story in most movie scripts. The movie producers have gotta give viewers something extra to get people to go to the theatres.

Maybe, ole Tom (a huge box off draw) will renew some interest in the Battle of Britain. I think the original version with Michael Caine, Susannah York and Robert Shaw was mucho lameo. It was great to see the air combat scenes...so that made it worth it.

Don't be so hard on the movie makers, at least we may get some good combat footage. Besides, if people's interests are tweaked a bit, they might be interested to know more about the Battle of Britain.

-------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:04 AM
Gee Wiz! Hollywood screws up anything related to history!

Cripes, Im an American and even I think its bullsh**t to have a movie about an american pilot who flew 3 missions and died after he "pranged" - and claim we made a large contribution to the battle of britain.

I can understand why the brit vets are pis*ed about the title, but the eagle squadron did contribute something.


Capt.Arnold

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:06 AM
Hi All

I'snt Tom Crusie Canadian? Must be a touch of irony there. Any how, maybe Sailor Malan could be played by Mel Gibson, Jude Law ( alredy metioned ) could play Adolf Galand , Quentin Tarentino as Hitler ( not cos he's a Natzi but he dose the whole speach thing so well) & Samuel L Jackson as Churchill......"Hey you, the few, you's a bunch O bad m0th3rf***3r's. I'm off to do a bank comercial ". & for a touch of realism maybe the Hurrican get's to shoot down more German planes than anything else during BOB,

MB

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:14 AM
VW-IceFire wrote:

....but we'll see if this
- movie has any redeeming qualities....Another crucial requirement will be for the accurate
- portrayal of any dogfights...that includes markings,
- tactics, and relative visual accuracy.

Are you kidding? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Anyone who saw the hack job on NASCAR ("Days of Thunder") cannot expect Hollyweird to do justice to this storyline. NASCAR would have booted a looney like the one Tom Cruise played in that piece of junk!

As stated in an eariler post, I might, and I emphasize might...rent this when it comes out on DVD if, and only if, the flight scenes are....well they probalby won't be.

"Nevermind." -Roseann Roseannadanna /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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<center> The ProudBirds ... Flying High and Proud

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:29 AM
Ferret,I just wanted to compliment you on a articulate, sensible post in an other wise foot stomping, tantrum throwing, "all things yank suck so lets bash em" thread.

I would like to ask if any of the people who keep comparing this movie to U 571 and Pearl Harbor have ever checked total tickets sales for those movies? The bombed....badly.

We cannot quite figure out who Hollywierd churns this crap out for ourselves ourselves.

I have noticed however, that the many folk here who have ranted about realism, don't seem to mind if the history portrayed is making them look good. Anyone here remember a movie called Alfred the Great? Pssst lean in close.....now keep it under your hat, but I have it on good authority that Michel York isn't really a Dane....damnit, now I can't enjoy all those cool old battle scenes, not historically accurate you know.

Its a good thing they didn't film The Lord of the Rings movies here in the U.S. I hate to think of all the little english kids who wouldn't get to see such a fine escapism film when their daddies found out that Gimli isn't really a little person, Legolas isn't even a wood elf at all but in fact 1/2 Wild elf&1/2 dark elf(3rd cousin on his mothers) I did hear that the old gent who portrays Gandalf really can preform magic tho. He is said to make the salami's disappear on a regular basis!

Now Am I being redicules? You betcha! Just like most of this thread. I really did mean what I said about your post tho Ferret

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 05:04 AM
the americans... lol...the battle of BRITAIN, the canadians did more than th yanks in the battle of BRITAIN!
lou69

THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT THE CANADIANS

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:45 AM
mucker,

I won't comment the first part of your post, because other people have already done this well.
Instead, I'll comment just this sentence of you: "About the movie....who gives a rats arse! It is only entertainment. Don't like it? Don't watch it...".

Ok, so millions people that are going to watch this new Tom Cruise Hollywood Star Movie are going to believe that one proud American won the BoB and saved UK. And they'll go back home more proud to be Americans (or thinking how great America is if they're from another country).

I call this brain-washing.

S!



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:27 AM
[unless we dress Kylie Minogue as a guy]

Nurse! - the screens . . .

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:54 AM
I say beat Yanks with their own weapons--why don't Brits just go in and sue Hollywood morons for causing them emotional pain by missportraying the role of British armed forces in the war? It would be really interesting seeing the movie being renamed from "The Few" to "The Small Group" and than moving its setting to, say, Galapagos Islands or Atlantis. Actually, I'd go a step further and register names "Spitfire" and "Hurricane" as trademarks and sue Cruise and his bunch for trademark infringement or smt. like that. I'm not a lawyer, but maybe someone with better knowledge of anglo-saxon law could try and do this?

<Center><img src=http://images.fotopic.net/?id=338437&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1><Center>

<Center>"I have no principles; I make Adaptability to all circumstances my Principle.<Center>
I have no tactics; I make Emptiness and Fullness my Tactics."<Center> <Center>Bushido<Center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:59 AM
" . . . one in four American teenagers believe that Germany was on the side of the Americans during the second world war."

I remember sitting in a cafe in Oxford and overhearing a conversation between a group of university students talking about the war, which they'd been studying as part of their history course.
One of them mentioned Hitler and a young girl said: "Oh, I've just started reading about him - wasn't he Jewish or something?"

I nearly ckoked on my coffee, but the sad part is that hers was a genuine question . . .

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 11:40 AM
mucker wrote:

- ...too fuggin' funny, I didn't realize that BOB was
- the turning point for Britain's future survival. BOB
- (emphasis on battle, not war) was a great victory
- for you tea and crumpet eaters, but had the
- Americans not jumped in to prevent your doom (you
- know it's true), there would be no UK as you know it
- today, however good/bad you think it is. A real
- British soldier or airman that fought in WW2 would
- be appalled at the comments being tossed around in
- here by its' own countryman that don't know squat
- about those atrocious years. Those soldiers had the
- good sense to know it was a united effort between
- the UK and US that eventually preserved the UK. I
- for one will never forget that alot American blood
- was spilled far away from home to help out our past
- friends (and future ingrates). Unfortunately, this
- is becoming dangerously forgotten by arrogant young
- individuals with baseless opinions, living in much
- different times.
-
- About the movie....who gives a rats arse! It is only
- entertainment. Don't like it? Don't watch it...that
- is the great thing about choice. I have watched
- films on the BBC that I could only stomach for about
- 15 seconds so don't give me your "only in America"
- garbage! I think each country puts out it's fair
- share of crap....
-
- mucker

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cheers mucker !

Just read your posting and fully agree....its good to know that there are still some guys out there standing with both feets on the ground /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

In my opinion Germany already lost the war during the BOB in 1940. As we were not able to achieve the air superiority the invasion and occupation of Britian could not be realized. So it was in fact the turning point of Britains future survival as you can be sure that the highly motivated Wehrmacht would have ran down Britain like any other country in Europe at that time.

This was Hitlers second huge tactical mistake ! The first one was lagging to defeat the british continental troops at Dunkirk.

Imagine the scenario Britain would have been occupied....


The war in Africa stops immediately. Troops, material and General Rommel are available for other operations.

Britian is not the aircarft carrier of the USAF. As a matter of fact the German war industry will not be affected in any way and continous the production w/o any delay.

The defence of the european westcoast is not necessary anymore as an invasion is impossible. Troops and material are available for other operations.

The submarines and fleet, at that point not depleted, are available for other operations.

All above mentioned material,troops and industrial power will be concentrated to raid Russia.


A nightmare, isn't it ? I dont think that we have to discuss the consistencies for Russia......

"I for one will never forget that alot American blood
was spilled far away from home to help out our past
friends" !

Next to this I'm glad that this scenario never happend and today I have the choice to decide what is manipulated and what not ! There4 I won't spend any money for this movie....


Horrido !

Lt. Black Hussar

www.stukageschwader2.de (http://www.stukageschwader2.de)

fluke39
09-19-2003, 12:06 PM
leaving the first part of youre post aside

mucker wrote:

About the movie....who gives a rats arse! It is only entertainment. Don't like it? Don't watch it...that is the great thing about choice. I have watched films on the BBC that I could only stomach for about 15 seconds so don't give me your "only in America" garbage! I think each country puts out it's fair share of crap....

millions will watch it

millions will believe it

it will effectively change history, albeit in the perception of those who watch the film and are not intelligent enough to distinguish it from reality, which will unfortunately be a large percentage.

to me this is quite unacceptable

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:33 PM
Amazing how these threads always turn to Yank bashing ..

Without the concerted effort of the American industrial machine, the whole of Europe would be connesieurs of fine Schnitzel and Bratwurst ... And then sat there for another 40 something years to keep the bear at bay.

Can you say Fulda Gap ?????

Bring it on !!

CC

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:36 PM
J.D.Carter wrote:
-
-
- I did hear that the old gent who portrays Gandalf really can preform magic tho. He is said to make the
- salami's disappear on a regular basis!
-

Thats very rude....but the funniest thing I've read on the forums for a long time.

In my criticsm I was careful to use the phrase Hollywood not "Americans" as I rather like the Yanks despite the "We won it single handed comments that are made on a regular basis on these forums.I can only assume that history in the United States is taught with a pronounced Patriotic bias at the expense of cold facts.

There has been a comment along the lines that if the US had not entered the war that we would have been "over run".The author of this comment appears to have missed the point entirely.

You see Hitler made a determined effort in 1940 to "over run" Britain and he was stopped by the Royal Air Force.It was a close run thing and we only just did it,but we did it.This was at a time when the policy of the US was "this is NOT our war and we should have nothing to do with it".The US had written us off along with the rest of the world.

Our war started on the 3rd of September 1939.We saw what Hitler was attempting to do and,despite the fact that we had not been attacked directly,we attempted to intervene,to do "the right thing".It cost us dearly but we were right to do so.The US people watched this with detachment,for over 2 years,although your Government had the foresight to assist us with supplies on the quiet,the US people wanted no part of this "European War".Until the Japanese put a gun in the face of the USA and then there was no choice.

Now I in no way wish to detract from the sacrifices made by the US Serviceman during the War,the Second World War is a passion of mine, but by the same token I do wish that some American posters on these forums would pay the same respect to our servicemen.

As someone has pointed out previously:If the Luftwaffe had achieved air superiority in 1940 over Britain then we would have been invaded,there is no question of that, and there would have been no strategic location in which to base allied forces and thus no invasion/liberation of Europe could have taken place.The Germans would have had total European control.They were allied to the Japanese who had total control of the Far East,which is made up of a lot more than the Pacific Islands.British forces were heavily engaged in Burma and the surrounding mainland nations.If we had "Gone under" in 1940 this would not have taken place.

The US would have been faced with a Japanese dominated Pacific to the and a German dominated Europe.

I believe that the Battle of Britain was the first of the 3 deciding events of the Second World War.Pearl Harbour being the second and the invasion of Russia being the third.

I appreciate the small number of Americans that volunteered for service in the Eagle Squadrons, but in the Battle of Britain we owe a greater debt of thanks to the Poles and the Czechs and Commonwealth nations.
Post 1941 we do indeed owe a debt of thanks to the USA but the USA owes an debt of thanks to all allied nations because if anyone thinks that the US won it singlehandedly then they have never really studied the facts.It is naive,arrogant and ignorant of anyone to do so.

As I said,I like the Yanks,I have the combined American/British flag tiepin on my uniform as I would rather be allied to the US than present day Europe (despite the rather poor state of your forces target recognition).However some of the comments posted on here only serve to fuel those with an anti-American prejudice.



Bo_Nidle

Get my skins at: www.mudmovers.com (http://www.mudmovers.com) and www.il2skins.com (http://www.il2skins.com)

http://www.orangeneko.com/rik/thumbs/flashbn.jpg

"You've got to treat your kite like you treat your woman! Get inside her 10 times a day and take her to heaven and back!"Lord Flashheart RFC 1917.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:39 PM
On a scale of 1 to 10,my disappointment and anger is somewhere around 100. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

And you wonder why they (Hollywood) are despised by so many around the world?

I hope the thing flops so flippin' badly that Tom Cruise and anyone else associated with it has to spend the rest of their lives in misery. How dare they re-write history for financial convienence. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Honestly, next Hollywood will be telling us that the US built the Pyramids.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

People who re-write history to suit themselves are among the lowest forms of life on the planet. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

And for those going "it's only a movie" might we remind you that since 90% of learning is done visually people will see this stupid POS and take it as the truth. Find a significant event from your own history and rewrite it so your own people aren't even mentioned in it. Then see how you like it.

In any case, the only relation to the BOB is that they may film it in England, and the CGI will be expected to sell the movie, as the script will consist almost entirely of stringing together the usual features of modern Hollywood WW2 movies, that being the sex scenes. I bet they don't have a problem casting a British female for TC to lie on. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Funny they were quite happy to have Robert Carlisle play Hitler. Guess Hollywood will only portray Brits as the baddies.

----------------------------------------

Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand goes all the way to the
bone.

Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do ?"
Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."

Message Edited on 09/19/0311:13PM by Owl_NZ

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:54 PM
*Yawn*

Typical, just typical...
Mucker; you completely misunderstood the whole point:

NOONE WAS SAYING THAT WWII WAS'NT WON THROUGH A COMBINED EFFORT.

What *was* said, however, is that the *Battle of Britain* was won by the *british*, with little to no military assistance from the Yanks.

What people are "whinning" about is that *Hollywood and Tom Cruise*, not *yanks as such*, are rewriting history to fill their pockets.

I do agree that some people on these boards are a little too quick to grab the largest ameribasher warhammer they can find, and start swinging it at the slightest provocation, but what you don't seem to understand is that your iliterate, childishly high-pitched "My-weenie-can-beat-your-weenie"-type response to it only makes the ameribashing worse; just for your information, it *is* actually possible to be noticed and understood without being loud and obnoxious, (particularly when not in the US of A; sorry, could'nt resist that one...)

And by the way:

YOU NICE?





-----------------------------------

"I don't know what weapons World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
-A. Einstein
"And any leftover assault weapons" -Fallout Fan


I am an Arado whiner. And the only one, it would seem... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.vectorsite.net/avar234.html
Not my site. But a good place to start if you want to join the Arado-whining. The Arado needs *you* today!

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:25 PM
Coon-Chow wrote:
- Amazing how these threads always turn to Yank
- bashing ..
-
- Without the concerted effort of the American
- industrial machine, the whole of Europe would be
- connesieurs of fine Schnitzel and Bratwurst ... And
- then sat there for another 40 something years to
- keep the bear at bay.
-
- Can you say Fulda Gap ?????
-
- Bring it on !!


@coon-chow

You know that's the difference between the Yanks and the rest of the world !

You manage to disparaging Britains, Germans and the rest of Europe within.... 6 loudmouthed lines !

So we bring it on Gentleman, Yank bashing time /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

This seems to be a modern american behaviour pattern...

First you tell the British that "Without the concerted effort of the American industrial machine, the whole of Europe would be connesieurs of fine Schnitzel and Bratwurst" and demand their alliance in war against nomads who are not able to "say" chemical weapon...

Then, you kick *** all other friends as they are not willing to raid a country already living in the stoneage.

After that you proudly annouce the victory over the "most dangerous army in the middle east" like you already did abt. 10 years before.

The war is over and your casualities are higher than during the fights ! The "liberated poeple of Iraq" kick *** the liberators, but this time ****s have no slitted eyes....

Now that you ran out of money as the "American industrial machine" suffers, you remember your kicked *** friends in merry old Europe.

You know what ? I guess you know....



Message Edited on 09/19/0312:27PM by StG2_Hussar

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:28 PM
All this rewriting history is really sickening but if they have to have an American in the lead role surely the guy has to play a Brit, these people are actors after all so whats the problem with speaking with an english accent.

For all of you Americans who are wondering what all the fuss is about, how would you feel if a film came out where the Memphis Belle crew were all Brits - there would be uproar right?

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:34 PM
Coon-Chow wrote:
- Amazing how these threads always turn to Yank
- bashing ..
-
- Without the concerted effort of the American
- industrial machine, the whole of Europe would be
- connesieurs of fine Schnitzel and Bratwurst ... And
- then sat there for another 40 something years to
- keep the bear at bay.

Coon-Chow,
I don't see all this "Yank bashing" here.
I see people indignated by Hollywood's scarce respect of history (and thus of ethics). British, Americans and all over the world.
Moreover, I also see people - yes, even some "Yanks" !! - worried about the consequences of this continuous flood of Hollywoodian misinforming crap (my previous post and that of fluke39 are quite eloquent about this last concept) that I'll rather call brain-washing.

Cheers,




http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:44 PM
Glad I could give you a chuckle Bo Nidle, The point that I should have been making clearer is simply this. All of the indignation and hurt national pride(which you have great reason and every right to feel) isn't going to change not 1 iota of what Hollywierd will produce. Either now or in the future.

There are many sensible Fact seeking and enjoying american movie goers. The movie industry here caters to us about as often as it does you english chaps, almost never.

The only affective means we have is to simply not purchase a ticket to this sort of movie. Let me restate that, the only means period.

For every educated person who knows what a heroic effort the RAF made during the BoB there will 5 who go simply because its whats current. Sadly enough there in England & here in the U.S. as in most places I will assume(some one enlightened please correct my iggnorant yank stupidity now ) The majority of the common folk go see a movie to escape real life for 2 or 3 hours.

We flight simmers may be passionate and demand as close to 100% accurate portrayals as possible but I fear that we are by far in the minority.

Concerning the Yanks here who bray about how we saved everyones arse's and the Brits who Bray back that you didn't need us in the 1st place. The only thing missing from those type of very non-accurate postings from a historical viewpoint is Nanny Nanny Boo Boo. Grow up and crack open a variety of history books. The truth doesn't always need to hurt.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:44 PM
mucker wrote:
- Are you really 40 Lil*****? I could just imagine
- "over 500 posts" of your boring, **********, ranting
- and ravings. Do you have a life little guy? Keep
- blowing away because it's evident you do that
- best....You should stop posing as an intellegent
- adult on these boards....

You should be the one to talk about blowing, Mr. Shmucker Sucker.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:58 PM
StG2_Hussar wrote:

- @coon-chow
-
- You know that's the difference between the Yanks and
- the rest of the world !
-
- You manage to disparaging Britains, Germans and the
- rest of Europe within.... 6 loudmouthed lines !

- This seems to be a modern american behaviour
- pattern...
-
- First you tell the British that "Without the
- concerted effort of the American industrial machine,
- the whole of Europe would be connesieurs of fine
- Schnitzel and Bratwurst"

I was merely stating fact ... without US industrial involvment from the get-go, all of Europe would have been annexed by the Nazi war machine ... It would have taken a while, and every man, woman and child in the Brittish Isles would have fought bravely, but the Axis would have eventually accomplished the task.

- and demand their alliance
- in war against nomads who are not able to "say"
- chemical weapon...

If you must mix apples and oranges ... the Iraqi's did have chemical weapons .. and they had used them in the past, why would one assume they would not be used in future ??

- Then, you kick *** all other friends as they are not
- willing to raid a country already living in the
- stoneage.

We were just looking for some proactive support ... which we recieved little ... of course if there was a Sarin attack in the chunnel, European popular support would have been huge .. maybe some VX nerve dispersed from the flippin Eifel tower ?? France would be screaming for help ..the people if Iraq may be in the stoneage ... the few thugs running the show were not.

- After that you proudly annouce the victory over the
- "most dangerous army in the middle east" like you
- already did abt. 10 years before.

Were you there ?? We did kick some ***, to liberate a nation of billionaires, so 10 years later they could finance attacks carried out by a cowardly bunch of diaperheads that blame all the worlds troubles on us

- The war is over and your casualities are higher than
- during the fights ! The "liberated poeple of Iraq"
- kick *** the liberators, but this time ****s have no
- slitted eyes....

This is the most dangerous time over there, because the bands of pro hussien diaperheads are hiding amongst the people who DO appreciate our involvement.

- Now that you ran out of money as the "American
- industrial machine" suffers, you remember your
- kicked *** friends in merry old Europe.

American industrial machine is alive and well, it always will be, and we will continue to send billions in aid to every thirdworld mudhut nation that cries out for help, everytime there is a civil war, natural disaster or invasion, where does the rest of the world stack up ??


We are currently feeding 2/3 of the damned planet, how do you like your North Carolina Rice? How's about grain ??

- You know what ? I guess you know....
-

I do !

CC

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:34 PM
Tom is playing an American who fought in the battle. The guy existed and really did fight in the battle. How is this rewriting history?

The level of anti-American venom here is unwarrented, and disgracefull.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:59 PM
grist wrote:
- Tom is playing an American who fought in the battle.
- The guy existed and really did fight in the battle.
- How is this rewriting history?
-
-
- The level of anti-American venom here is
- unwarrented, and disgracefull.
-
-

Well said Grist, I agree completely. Also, I've read elsewhere that the script hasn't even been written yet. So where does Skynet get its info from? An "industry insider"? Sounds a bit David Kelly'ish to me.

Billy Fiske was apparantly an interesting guy. How do any of you know that the film won't be in the vein of "Born on the Fourth of July" about an interesting person with wartime experiences. Probably not, but who really knows?

Lighten up people. Its only a movie!!

Ferd-

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 05:45 PM
grist wrote:
- Tom is playing an American who fought in the battle.
- The guy existed and really did fight in the battle.
- How is this rewriting history?
-
-
- The level of anti-American venom here is
- unwarrented, and disgracefull.


Well, when there was a pilot's lounge here I was very often labeled a "Rah-Rah America" type, which for the most part I am. This isn't about anti-American sentiment. It's the fear that Hollywood is going to make another revisionist film where Americans come in and save the day in events where we, in historical fact, never participated. Or in this case there were Americans who participated but didn't contribute significantly to the outcome. And the fear is well founded.

Look at the movie U-571. The capturing of an Enigma machine was one of the most important intelligence coups of the war. It was of enormous help in Allied operations throughout the entirety of the war. But it was the British who captured it not the Americans. The movie gives a false account of events that, without some form of disclaimer, would be taken as historically accurate by audiances that don't know any better. How would you feel if the British made a film that portrays them as cracking JN-25A and saving the day at Midway? I'd imagine you'd find it to be outrageous.

Now to really be fair, TC, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't even developed the script yet. So who knows, he may actually do a good job of it. But the problem here is that he has picked an actual figure in history about whom there is an accurate accounting of his service in the RAF. We know that he was involved in very few actions and didn't shoot down any e/a. So how does one flesh out an entire movie around someone like this. The temptation is to make stuff up. And worse to make it seem that his contribution was significant when it really wasn't.

Which begs the question: why make stuff up when the actual events were so compelling and those who participated were so truly heroic. I think they could do a movie that centers around the actual RAF pilots and it would be very successful with American audiances.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 06:22 PM
Hopperfly22 wrote:
- Oh man I thought the movie was simply about the
- first american to die in WWII. I didn't know they
- twisted it to make a guy who only flew 3 missions
- out to be a hero.


All flaming aside, has anyone seen an actual press release on this movie? As someone mentioned about the irrelevance of not including Brits in Saving Private Ryan, I think I'll wait to see an offical release to form an opinion and not get hot over a obviously slanted skynews article.

Taken from http://www.thezreview.co.uk/

"Tom Cruise wants to return to the skies. He's apparently expressed an interest in playing Billy Fiske (the first American pilot killed fighting the Germans in World War II) in The Few for Paramount Pictures. Michael Mann will direct, and John Logan, who wrote the upcoming Cruise-starrer The Last Samurai, is in talks to write the script."

Michael man is an outstanding director (you may remember HEAT with Pacino and DeNiro and the Insider with Russel Crowe). Also I see nothing about Billy Fiske saving the British Empire but repeated hooks about the first American pilot killed during the war.



--
<font size="2">Jeff "jazzz" Fleischmann
486th FS, 352nd FG [VR]
SECOND TO NONE!</font>



Message Edited on 09/19/0305:24PM by jazzz-

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:14 PM
Hey, I'm gonna make a Hollywood movie. It will be inspired in my country's history, during the Armada campaign. Admiral Horace "Lefty" Nelson of Oklahoma (Wesley Snipes) will win the Trafalgar Square battle in a PT Boat. The Spanish king Philip II (Antonio Banderas) will sweat all the time and have a strong Mexican accent. The story reaches the climax when the French Admiral Richelieu (Steven Seagal) and Spanish Captain Mendoza (all Spanish are called Mendoza in US movies) try to rape Queen Elizabeth I (Drew Barrymore) over the board of USS Lexington, being chopped to pieces by the katana sword of Nelson. Finally, Nelson and Queen Elizabeth have a romance, which is imposible: Nelson is now Elizabeth's enemy; he's going to help his friend Washington (Arnold Schwarzenegger) to win the Independence for USA. A big flag and THE END.

Any investor? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:18 PM
choxaway wrote:
- " . . . one in four American teenagers believe that
- Germany was on the side of the Americans during the
- second world war."
-
- I remember sitting in a cafe in Oxford and
- overhearing a conversation between a group of
- university students talking about the war, which
- they'd been studying as part of their history
- course.
- One of them mentioned Hitler and a young girl said:
- "Oh, I've just started reading about him - wasn't
- he Jewish or something?"
-
- I nearly ckoked on my coffee, but the sad part is
- that hers was a genuine question . . .

I remember one of my work mates thinking seriously that Waterloo and the whole Napoleonic Wars took place during WW1...

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:02 PM
Mr Carter sir,

Thankyou for your reply, yours did give me a chuckle.and also some good points.

There does seem to be a majority of sensible replys on this thread, alas some very abbusive ones that knock americans.
Like i said it would be a shame if this film went into production portraying Mr Fiske, but we will wait and see what happens, there is very little we can do about it !!.
And people please remember that this Mr Fiske gave his life for the defence of our Island even if he was american , and did only manage 3 sorties! i just hope like i said previously that he does'nt take on old jerry and save the day!.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:33 PM
Good gravy. I wish the filmmakers involved in this project had less of an eye on box-office gross. I'm just thankful that I'm only 23 years old. Odds are pretty good that someone will still make a decent Battle of Britain film within my lifetime. Of course, I enjoyed the 1969 film quite a bit--even if a few too many planes exploded in mid-air after a volley of machine-gun fire.

I say put some British unknowns (or lesser-knowns) on this project and aim for historical accuracy. I know, I live in America, and if Hollywood stops focusing on the buck some of them might have to stop living like children, but every time someone plops out a bit of revisionist (or just blatantly false) history, those who take it in get just a bit dumber. Oh, and I just can't wait to see the love interest they throw in there to make a few more bucks.

On an unrelated note, at the Media Play in my town (and probably every town), The World at War set just dropped in price from about $112 to $17.99. So if anyone's looking for a deal...

Wiffle

Yes, and here's to the few
who forgive what you do
and the fewer who don't even care

--Leonard Cohen

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:53 PM
I would put good money on this being pretty embarassing. It doesn't look very promising, does it. The infuriating thing is you could attempt telling some of the TRUE stories of the Battle of Britain, and create something marvellous, strange and unforgettable: the naivety of the raw recruits, frequently dying in training or flying accidents: the exhaustion: the horror of dying in a flaming cockpit, the horror of surviving it: the cases of Lack of Moral Fibre, quietly sidelined : the craziness of the class divide between sergeant pilots and officers : the vast, indomitable characters of people like Bader and Tuck, their greatness shot through with arrogance and ruthlessness : the sheer bloody courage and spirit.


Saving Private Ryan, and even more I would say Band of Brothers, knew about truths like this and told a true story. It didn't matter that all the characters were American. Telling a true story isn't about having a statistically balanced sample as your cast.

It would be possible to tell a truthful story about the Battle of Britain with Fiske as the central character. An odd thing to do, and difficult, but possible. But I am sorry to say I don't think we are getting this. This has cynicism, distortion, and marketing myopia written all over it. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 11:44 PM
I just picked up the dvd BOB.....
it was great ...

I think any movie about ww2 will be good ..with the special FX.we have now ...
I hope they dont mess it up with fake planes ...

kinda like the movie patton..the germans had patton tanks and we had the pershing tanks

I put a post in 2 days ago about the movie and the 109s ..they didnt look correct..what were they made from..
the exaust was to high on the nose..?

Chin up ..HUTCH


http://www.il2skins.com/skins/thumbs/1486.jpg

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=1486

Next time your in Eugene,Oregon come see me at my internet/lan center....I have 2 systems runing FB
http://www.fragnetgaming.com/

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:07 AM
not another who won ww2 fight

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:35 AM
Well it's a pretty sad indictment of Hollywood when they have to plagarise OTHER people's history to make a buck. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I can only imagine what would happen if say France made a hit international film portraying the French as winning the US War Of Independence while the US sat by and did nothing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif So why is it alright for Hollywood to do it with someone else's history, especially when most history taught these days seems to rely on visual effects? Take battle CGI's out and the "The Few" would be the title simply because that's how many would actually watch it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

"We need an American actor to get bums on seats". Doesn't say anything good about Hollywood then does it? If their own people can't be bothered turning up why make it? Let's see, BOB has very little if anything to do with the US, so they need to be told the US was the deciding factor and require plenty of sex to sell it? Who's watching it, the ignorant and the sex-mad young male population?

Perhaps they should consider making an accurate one. They might even be surprised when it gets critical acclaim and is the World's highest grossing movie of the year.

How often do we hear them say "well it didn't make much money in the US, but it should break even/make a profit in overseas takings"? The rest of the World is bankrolling this sort of POS so they can make more of it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Hopefully this will go the way of Mel Gibson's "Dambusters" movie and sink without trace. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If you can't do it right, don't do it at all. Use your imaginations instead and stop rewriting history to pander your own greed.

----------------------------------------

Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand goes all the way to the
bone.

Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do ?"
Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:02 AM
Next from Hollywood

RED STAR

The story of the squad of Americans who pushed the Germans back out of Russia and took Berlin.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:09 AM
Take it from an American. Hollywodd is not America, Hollywood is California.

And I never liked tom cruise either.

http://www.352ndfg.com/Images/icarus_noseart.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:10 AM
An air rifle? *Pulls out a M 1A rifle* Will this do?


Bo_Nidle wrote:
- I've found out more about the cast:
-
- Arnold Schwarzeneger as Winston Churchill
- "Ze battle ov France iz ofer,zer battle ov Britain
- iss about to begin....up and at zem!"
-
- Mel Brooks as Adolf Hitler
- "Heil myself!"
-
- Eddie Murphy as Herman Goerring
- "What you mean f***ing Spitfires Galland you jive
- mofo'! Don't you be f***ing with me now! We in some
- serious s**t a**hole!"
-
- Jim Carrey as Galland
- "Wipe out the Royal Air Force in 6 weeks..oh
- reaaaaallllyyy!"
-
- Anna Nicole Smith as Dame Vera Lynn
- she sings "We'll meet again" and shows her norks a
- lot.
-
- Gollum as Sir Hugh Dowding
- "You cannot waste my airforces over France no
- mores,you cannot waste my...preciousssss!"
-
- I'm sure it will be along the same accurate lines as
- other docudramas from Hollywood "U571" and "Pearl
- Harbour".
-
- If they try and remake "The Dambusters" I say we
- invade Hollywood.We can do it,I've got an air rifle
- and I know where we can get hold of a microlight!
-
- Bo_Nidle
-
-
- Get my skins at: www.mudmovers.com (http://www.mudmovers.com) and
- www.il2skins.com (http://www.il2skins.com)
-
-
<img
- src="http://www.orangeneko.com/rik/thumbs/flashbn.
- jpg">
-
- "You've got to treat your kite like you treat your
- woman! Get inside her 10 times a day and take her to
- heaven and back!"Lord Flashheart RFC 1917.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:04 AM
pourshot wrote:
- Well I think it stinks why the hell do we need a
- american in the lead roll we have plenty of good
- english actors that would do a better job of it.Oh
- well it's only history.
-
- No1RAAF_Pourshot

I think the makers of this movie would like to make their money back at least, probably why they want a big name like Tom Cruise in the lead. Lol

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:20 AM
There are some other great films that don't change the history so much and where pretty damm good...
Example:
Enemy at the Gates.....(and the americans don't even won the war in that movie).

Derzasi

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:24 AM
Ack...Tom again... eek.

This guy!!!

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0257076/SWAT-028.jpg


Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:55 AM
more american tripe

its just like that horiible little theory that the p-47 helped win the war

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:18 PM
Oh dear,this puts me in an awkward position,I didn't know Michael Mann was going to direct this film.

As a bit of a film buff Mann is top of my list of best directors ever since I saw his first film:"Thief" in 1981.

He is also responsible for "The Last of the Mohicans" and "Manhunter" as well as "Heat".

If he is at the helm we do have a bit of hope in that he is not a director known to pander to the demands of Hollywood executives,thus I think we can safely discount another farce along the lines of "Pearl Harbour".

He is also a director known for his painstaking attention to detail and authenticity.

If this film is dealing with the Eagle squadrons as does sound likely then I will reserve judgement.

The one thing that never fails to annoy me is the lack of British backed films to deal with this War.When "Band of Brothers" was shown on the BBC I wrote an indignant e-mail to the Radio Times demanding to know why Britain cannot pay such magnificent tribute to its WW2 servicemen.I did get it it published as letter of the week and got a soundtrack CD and a book of the series out of it,so it wasn't a completely wasted effort.

You never know it could turn out to be a top notch film.

Bo_Nidle

Get my skins at: www.mudmovers.com (http://www.mudmovers.com) and www.il2skins.com (http://www.il2skins.com)

http://www.orangeneko.com/rik/thumbs/flashbn.jpg

"You've got to treat your kite like you treat your woman! Get inside her 10 times a day and take her to heaven and back!"Lord Flashheart RFC 1917.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:17 PM
Well as the movie goes , that is wrong.. But as to what was happening in Britian while the battle was going on .

The British where in bad shape as planes and pilots stood. If Hitler had not told the LW to attack the cities then as a brit leader said , we would only have been able to hold our a short time longer.. There air bases where being pounded day and night . As this pilot put it , as bad as it sounds ,the germans putting the focus of the raids on the cities gave the British airforce time to rebuild and get there aircraft up to speed.

The people in the citys had to pay a horrid price for this , but as he said with out britian as a jumping off place the retaking of Europe would have been very hard..

The Americans were working on long range bombers at that time because they though that Britian would fall.

And to the brave pilots and ground crews working around the clock , it would have fallen.

Some of the aircraft factorys did not even have enough parts to keep up with fixing the aircraft much less building new ones.

I will have to look up the book I read on this , it was written by a Brit , on how desprate it was at that time.

And he said as to rotating pilots , well some of them fell asleep under there planes when thay landed because of the shortage of planes and pilots , and also because of how many air raids The Germans where sending at this time.

He even told of pilots sleeping in there planes while they where being refuled and rearmed. Because when they where ready to go again the ground crew got the pilot awake and off he went again whit his squadron to stop another air raid..


No Britian was in bad shape and the onslot was huge and as this pilot put it , just a few days from losing there airforce and bases.
But the British pilots and the ones who came over to help did pull it off.

And I truly think that if they had not held on , Europe would still be under the thumb of Nazi Germany at this time. Because Hitler could have then put the full of his armys on the Russian front and pushed them back..
The Russian leader at that time even thought of giving up , and probaly would have if not for a Polish diplomat who sugested that he pull his factorys and troops back into the mountians.. No it was a desprate times for all.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:29 PM
The idea of this movie disgusts me as much as watching the Pearl Harbor movie, and I can very well understand why many British people (and not only them) will be insulted.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:47 PM
Well as long as the film is suitably gritty with believable and harrowing air fighting and dispenses with the obligatory token love triangle we may yet be surprised.
imo Fiske's story is an interesting one though it would have been a better story to have portayed his fellow American and also No601 Squadron colleague Carl Davies who was a 9 victory ace in the battle before being shot down and killed early in the September,(though I'm sure Davies will be an integral part of the film as well)

With regard to Fiske,for me personally it matters not so much that he is an American but that he represented the two thirds majority of the 3,000 RAF Fighter Command pilots who fought in the BoB and didn't shoot anything down.Simply by getting a Hurricane or Spifire airborne and holding their nerve against the Luftwaffe hordes,they "did their bit".

What will really bug me though is if they have Cruise/Fiske making ace in a day etc etc..

And we better not get MkIX Spits with Hispanos in ocean grey with the wrong codes instead of 1940 No601 Hurri Mk1's.Same goes for the LW aircraft,you'd hope that they'd have someone to advise them on these things.

But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it'll be a good 'un

Incidentally here is an article from the editorial of one of the UK's newspapers today

MOVIE IS JUST TOM FOOLERY
"Will someone please tell me just how long we are expected to put up with the Yanks re-writing the Second World War in their silly movies?
In the latest insult,tiny Tom Cruise is a US pilot who kicks the Luftwaffe's a$$ all by himself.
Yes folks,the Battle of Britain is to be rewritten as a vehicle for Tom Cruise to clench his jaw,look manly and win the war.
Children from the States will soon believe the US were the only nation to take on Germany and that the brave people of Great Britain and the Commonwealth stood by waiting to be rescued.
We should boycott this film."

Fellings are certainly running high this end of the pond over this for sure..

http://www.airplane-world.addr.com/Corgi/aa30701.jpg


No601 County of London Squadron,Tangmere Pilots.
http://www.tangmerepilots.co.uk ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://www.tangmerepilots.co.uk</a>



http://www.airplane-world.addr.com/Corgi/aa30701.jpg


No601 County of London Squadron,Tangmere Pilots.
http://www.tangmerepilots.co.uk

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:28 PM
Please please please


Hollywood and all of its mindless boobs are not part of America. Even thou they seem to have the biggest mouths and make the most noise, 99.9% of the rest of my country truly hopes that the big earthquake they all talk about really does hit Hollywood.

Anyone who knows their history and has half a brain, knows that the war was won by the Brits. For they stood up, fought and held on to their island and their courage and honor were the core of the free world forces that defeated Hitler.

God the older I get the more I truly hate the spoiled whining fools in CA and Hollywood. In the old days the actors and film industry stood up and help defend this world. Now a days all they whine about is how bad "their" country is and how much money they should be making.

Any way that is my 2 cents

Salute
Uppy


http://www.woodburyguild.com/mike/hunter.gif

!!! Stuka !!!!

Message Edited on 09/20/0311:29AM by Uppiski

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 04:58 PM
I'm an American & this Hollywood crap SICKENS me!

& Tom Cruise is a washed up actor & i hope this movie finishes his career

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close your eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)

XyZspineZyX
09-21-2003, 12:05 PM
what's your favourite scene in the origanal ? , mines suzhanna york in suspenders .

XyZspineZyX
09-21-2003, 10:06 PM
Theres one thing this new BOB won't have & it's that catchy Luftwaffe March theme at the beginning, What a great song.

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close your eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)

XyZspineZyX
09-21-2003, 10:40 PM
EPP_Gibbs wrote:
-
- The BoB was won by the British because they knew
- what they were doing, and the Germans didn't.
-
-

What might be more realistic is if the Germans didn't bomb London on that faithful night, and didn't continue to bomb British cities afterwards, the Brits could've lost. The people of London saved Britain by taking the bombs and that allowed the RAF getting back to full strength.

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 02:15 AM
yes but even if germans stayed the way they were going the brits still couldve won, brits were able to return their downed pilots to service assuming they survived, where as german pilots were captured.

This movie sounds like a joke, Y do they have to take a part of history and place an american as the hero where they played almost no part, hell i think my country NZ had more pilots in the BoB, even a few 20+ scorers.

The BoB was mainly a british victory y not use a brit.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 05:13 PM
1200 brits plane go down,

and 600 109 was go down,most from aaa or came not back home,

because lack of fuel,other problem they could only 5-7min fight then she must return to home.

the only what spit1 could better as 109e, is turn,but that could too i-16.

109e can better accelerate,climb,zoomclimb and dive,that reach to good match.

I have last see a british report over BoB,they means 109e and spit1 was match plane.







Message Edited on 09/28/0307:21PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 11:49 PM
Hutch Hutch wrote:

-I put a post in 2 days ago about the movie and the
- 109s ..they didnt look correct..what were they made
- from..
- the exaust was to high on the nose..?

The Me-109's and the He-111's were former Spanish AF,
and had been fitted with..MERLINS of all things !

If I remember correctly the airframes had been bought?
by the Spanish Goverment during the war, but the Germans didn't supply engines. So it wasn't untill after the war, that the Spanish were able to buy merlins and fly them.

By the way, does anybody relalise that when the film was being made, the film company had the Worlds 6th biggest Airforce! (that would be 1968-69)

regards


To come a close second in a fight to the death....

..is not a desirable position to be in!

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 07:34 PM
"1200 brits plane go down,
and 600 109 was go down,most from aaa or came not back home,
because lack of fuel,other problem they could only 5-7min fight then she must return to home.
the only what spit1 could better as 109e, is turn,but that could too i-16.
109e can better accelerate,climb,zoomclimb and dive,that reach to good match.
I have last see a british report over BoB,they means 109e and spit1 was match plane. "


Skalgrim:
What a load of $hit! Yes, you are right, no Brit or otherwise allied pilot shot down a german plane during the BoB. It was all flak and lack of fuel. All those German planes just dropping into the ocean due to lack of gas.
Get a clue...

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 11:26 PM
One thing bears repeating in this thread.

Does not Britain have a film industry? I could swear that we here in the states are, if not exactly deluged, sprayed, with inane "romantic" comedies from over there. Somebody keeps employing the cloying Hugh Grant. What is it exactly that prevents the British from putting the popularity of the story of the BoB to the wallet test?

Where is the British "Saving Private Ryan?"

Where is the British "Band of Brothers?"

If you leave your history to Hollywood by default, who do really have to blame but yourselves?

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 11:39 PM
as long as its not a love story "pearl harbor" it should be interesting to see with todays graphics and special effects all the old flight movies lack, they use ha1112s for 109s comon, battle of britians planes being shotdown using smudges on the film look so horrible.

It should be good and definatly will see it.

I wonder if tom cruise will dye his teeth green and talk like a brit in the movie


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 12:31 AM
Bo_Nidle wrote:
-

-
- You see Hitler made a determined effort in 1940
- to "over run" Britain
-
-
B U L L!

Hitler had no intention of invading Britain in 1940 it was a bluff to get the British to ask for peace terms.
It almost worked too if the RAF hadn't survived/then bettered against the Luftwaffe and saved old Churchills arse. Lord Halifax and his crowd wanted to give up but Churchill won the day because the RAF still survived and the Luftwaffe began bombing London.

Do you really think the German's were capable of sending an army across the 25mile Channel in rowing boats. Where were the tank landing craft, troop ships and escort destroyers to protect this mighty fleet against the mightier Royal Navy.

The truth is once the RAF was beaten then Churchill would have been out , Lord Halifax would have been PM and peace settled with Adolf so he could march on Russia at a much later date,

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 01:01 AM
finally we Americans are getting the attention we deserve for our pivotal role in the BoB

flying online as 25th_Inmate



http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/inmate.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 02:11 AM
I just love how people can turn an understandable dislike towards Hollywood's crapola into an excuse to make Anti American comments. Does not take much for some people to bash America. Back on topic please.



Message Edited on 09/29/0306:12PM by BlackPhenix

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 04:00 AM
PlatinumElite wrote:
- Well as the movie goes , that is wrong.. But as to
- what was happening in Britian while the battle was
- going on .
-
- The British where in bad shape as planes and
- pilots stood. If Hitler had not told the LW to
- attack the cities then as a brit leader said , we
- would only have been able to hold our a short time
- longer.. There air bases where being pounded day and
- night . As this pilot put it , as bad as it sounds
- ,the germans putting the focus of the raids on the
- cities gave the British airforce time to rebuild and
- get there aircraft up to speed.
-
-
- The people in the citys had to pay a horrid price
- for this , but as he said with out britian as a
- jumping off place the retaking of Europe would have
- been very hard..
-
-
- The Americans were working on long range bombers
- at that time because they though that Britian would
- fall.
-
-
-
- And to the brave pilots and ground crews working
- around the clock , it would have fallen.
-
-
- Some of the aircraft factorys did not even have
- enough parts to keep up with fixing the aircraft
- much less building new ones.
-
-
- I will have to look up the book I read on this ,
- it was written by a Brit , on how desprate it was at
- that time.
-
-
- And he said as to rotating pilots , well some of
- them fell asleep under there planes when thay landed
- because of the shortage of planes and pilots , and
- also because of how many air raids The Germans where
- sending at this time.
-
-
- He even told of pilots sleeping in there planes
- while they where being refuled and rearmed. Because
- when they where ready to go again the ground crew
- got the pilot awake and off he went again whit his
- squadron to stop another air raid..
-
-
-
- No Britian was in bad shape and the onslot was
- huge and as this pilot put it , just a few days from
- losing there airforce and bases.
-
- But the British pilots and the ones who came over
- to help did pull it off.
-
-
- And I truly think that if they had not held on ,
- Europe would still be under the thumb of Nazi
- Germany at this time. Because Hitler could have then
- put the full of his armys on the Russian front and
- pushed them back..
-
- The Russian leader at that time even thought of
- giving up , and probaly would have if not for a
- Polish diplomat who sugested that he pull his
- factorys and troops back into the mountians.. No it
- was a desprate times for all.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

I was reading the first page of this thread and I came across a post kind of like this. You corrected the guy a bit but it isn't quite like you say. The BoB, as valiant sounding as it was, was almost purely a political battle, as were a lot of WW2 events. Hitler never, in his wildest dreams, thought of invading Britain. Sea Lion was a sham, and the BoB was fought to get the British morale down so that Churchill would lose favor with the people and be voted out of office in favor of someone who would come to terms with Germany.

Goering's job was not to get Britain ready for a land invasion, and not even to destroy Fighter command. His job was to demoralize the people. One of the phases of the BoB was aimed squarely at Fighter command, and at one point they were losing 200 planes more a week than they could build. They started with a pool of about 500 usable and crewable fighters, and as you see, at this point they had but 2 weeks left before Fighter command was simply wiped out.

Goering blinked though, and decided to move on to bombing London, as British Fighters seemingly just kept coming. The goals of these city raids was not to kill people (hell, at the beginning German bombers hardly had any bombs to drop, and throughout the battle they flew in with like a 6:1 ratio of fighters to bombers). The people needed to stay alive to get Churchill out of office. No, the goal was to demoralize them.

As you see, not any less romantic (perseverence and morale and all), but much more political than many think.

After just having heard a few lectures about the BoB, if this movie is really about an american pilot who pulls Britain through the Battle of Britain, I will be quite disgusted.

PS, I'm american.



Message Edited on 09/30/0304:02AM by manboy

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 04:11 AM
If that goes to Screen, I will, and I think anyone here who disagrees with it should Boycott the film. it's just not on. It dosn't need an American to do the film, and the plot sounds horrible anyway, not even sounding like the Real BOB.
Absoloutly atrocious, and Hollywood has overstepped the mark this time. Claiming the Greatest British Victory ever as an American feat is bloody scandalous.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 04:58 AM
Farkitt wrote:
- If that goes to Screen, I will, and I think anyone
- here who disagrees with it should Boycott the film.
- it's just not on. It dosn't need an American to do
- the film, and the plot sounds horrible anyway, not
- even sounding like the Real BOB.
- Absoloutly atrocious, and Hollywood has overstepped
- the mark this time. Claiming the Greatest British
- Victory ever as an American feat is bloody
- scandalous.
-
-
-
-

I'm an American & i totally agree with you, I'm not really up on modern British actors but i'm sure any number of them could have played a better leading role.

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close your eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 05:05 AM
Why not wait for the film to come out and then rag it if it deserves it..... Tom Cruise has done some very good work of late. I will hold judgement. I just hope the flight scenes are off the hook..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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