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View Full Version : Fw190D9 Vs Bf190K4



XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 07:45 PM
Given equal cookie monsters, who would win?

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 07:45 PM
Given equal cookie monsters, who would win?

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 07:52 PM
On full fuel K4 without a doubt, on the same fuel load eh, tough question.


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XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 07:53 PM
Of course you mean the D9 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 08:02 PM
Against each other, probebly the K4. But against an La-7, I think the D9 late would be better off.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:02 PM
Due to its very good clmbrate the K4 could win on the D9 even with 1.1b patch. The K4, apart from the deadly Mk108, seems even a more stable firing platform. Still, what a Dora pilot could try to do with some good chances to succed is to use patience, put some distance from the k4, use superior horizontal speed, and try to make the K4 engine fry, which happens much more quickly than in the Dora. The Dora seems even much more stronger and able to absorbs hits, while few mg hits on the K4 make it smoke or badly damage its controls.

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:05 PM
No ones taking into account the fact that cookie monsters eyes are not fixed and jiggle wildly within there sockets. Taking that into consideration I think he is just as likely to continue to chase planes that aren't there and more then likely would shoot down his wingman by accident. So 2 cookie monsters fighting each other would most definately end in a draw, with both leaving the battle in search of what else? cookies.

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/Waste-banner3.gif (http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4)

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:08 PM
Cookie Monster is my faavorite Sezame Street puppet./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

"degustibus non disputandum"

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XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:09 PM
I think the K4 has a higher horizontal speed than the D9 (K4 does 607 kph @ sea level and 727kph @ 6000m. Of course it might very according to the altitude. But I think at those high speeds the manoeuvrability of the Dora would be much better, including turn rate?

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:10 PM
peaches.



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:12 PM
Well mutt has got a point here! I think the cookie monster in the K4 could shake more due to the recoil of the Mk108.

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:14 PM
He would want a peach when he was finished./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:15 PM
Are we spamming, I'm drunk.



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:16 PM
if we are not spamming tell me, do not want to get banned.



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:17 PM
LOOK i have been banned before, when I was bad, i'm not bad now. Am I spamming?????????????



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:20 PM
Where is Ven when you need him??, should it be IBTL or am I spamming, because if i am I am the very guy they would send out to do this



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:21 PM
No you're not spamming, you're only working on your post count.

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:21 PM
Why ??? because they think that i am cannon fodder, not good enough to cut it with them



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:23 PM
are we under a massive Monty Pyton attack /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:23 PM
I am going for a beer, will continue the rant when i get back /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:25 PM
Oleg.

Because more Doras=more cookie for Oleg!

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-"
-Major General John Sedgwich, Battle of Spotsylvania

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:25 PM
nicolas10 wrote:
- I think the K4 has a higher horizontal speed than
- the D9 (K4 does 607 kph @ sea level and 727kph @
- 6000m.

At sealevel the Dora is faster.



<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:26 PM
SAT, get a grip, i'm spamming this thing, say something funny.



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:28 PM
if you are going to get technical, then p!ss off.



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sniper-690







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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:29 PM
I once shot a P40E down, your thoughts?



<center><img src=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/caroline1/cwos.jpg></center>

sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:33 PM
Forgive my shameless ignorance sir, can you enlighten me on what a cookie monster is?

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:33 PM
as a scotsman, I should be able to start a fight in an empty room. but that would get me banned.



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:34 PM
A cookie monster is a thing you use to SPAM



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:36 PM
If you want a life join us if not stay here.CWOS



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:42 PM
OK, goodnight then. you are allowed to dream about what you are missing. S!



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sniper-690

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:45 PM
Sniper, I am your therapist.

Step back from the computer, take ten deep breaths, close your eyes and relax.

There isn't that better?

Your spamming energies are now in balance.

Please continue./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Nevermore!</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:45 PM
Cherreh!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.princeton.edu/~hansw/cherry.jpg

<center>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/mortimer3.jpg

Nevermore!</center>

Message Edited on 08/27/0311:47PM by commie1

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:47 PM
sniper-690 wrote:
- If you want a life join us if not stay here.CWOS
-
-
how are the wages there? I think that a recruiting CWoS poster of the kind uncle-Sam-wants-you would be very effective and convincing /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:47 PM
Sniper get rid of your http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zacsv

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:50 PM
You know, once, I was flying about in CFS, and I saw the Mellenium Falcon. You've seen it. No big deal. This one, however, was just ripping numbers off his turning radius (and his corner speed kept changing in scissors to starboard) whenever he ripped right. Even with all the cheats, I couldn't get him. Finally, I ended up ramming him (I was flying a '74 Dodge pickup). Thru the wreckage I saw a ghostly form emerge from the cloud of debris. You can barely imagine my relief when I saw his chute pop.

It was my hero, the all time great ace from SS, Snuffleupagus.

Ever since he put Bart (mostly an unknown in the muppet world even tho he was Bert's brother, however imfamous as a pilot) into the drink he has been untouchable.

I'm glad he didn't die


http://www.jw-design.net/SIGGINEW.jpg


The world will change when you are ready to pronounce this oath:
I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

Miss A. R.

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 12:40 AM
Ok, guys, I've done some idiot testing (since the way this thread is going on, it seems suitable!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )
So, I've put 12 AI Bf109K-4 vs. 12 AI Fw.190D-9('44).
Map Smolensk, alt. 5000 m, weather clear, full real.
AI = Ace for everybody

Results after 4 matches
(numbers are survivng planes when las enemy was killed):

109K-4 - Dora
9 - 0
7 - 0
5 - 0
8 - 0


Observing AI at work, it seems that K-4, although a bit more fragile than Dora, is more maneuvrable, accelerates and climbs better, and has that deadly MK.108.

That's all, folks!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif




<center>

http://www.goblins.net/immagini/Logo/tdglogo_eng.gif </p>

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 12:44 AM
nicolas10 wrote:
- I think the K4 has a higher horizontal speed than
- the D9 (K4 does 607 kph @ sea level and 727kph @
- 6000m. Of course it might very according to the
- altitude. But I think at those high speeds the
- manoeuvrability of the Dora would be much better,
- including turn rate?

K4 has a top speed of 581 km/h TAS at sea level. D9 Late goes 610km/h TAS at sea level. K4 has top speed of 630km/h TAS at 6000m as modeled (way too low, but that is the way it is modeled). D9 goes about 700km/h TAS at same height. The D9 late can almost climb with the Bf 109K4 as well. The K4's only advantage is low speed agility, but I doubt any decent D9 pilot would allow the K4 to take advantage of that. The only reason I said earlier that the K4 would probebly win is because in a 1 vs 1 situation the K4's marginally better climb rate might give it a decisive advantage. However the La-7 out climbs both by a huge margin so in a regular fight the D9 is by far superior.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 12:50 AM
Yawn!

Sorry, I dozed off for a minute there.

Hmm, what were you saying?

It sounded really interesting.

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz...........

<center>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/mortimer3.jpg

Nevermore!</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 03:33 AM
I love the K4, It's my favorite plane and have been flying since game came out, but, since the patch the dora has similar performance with the distinct advantage of being able to take a lot more gun damage and keep flying.

the 109's are great but their performance degrades badly once damaged. The FW's seem to be nearly impervious to gun damage and you really have to pepper them to make them smoke.

(both planes are a blast to fly!)

I'd have to side with the dora on this one.

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 04:52 AM
I liked Oscar.

Didn't he live in a garbage can?

Am I getting the Muppets mixed up with Sesame Street?

Or are they the same?


Also: Dora.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 05:12 AM
As a side note I was talking about the real planes. As you all know, there are no in game cookie monsters, so it's pretty irrelevant to compare the in game planes. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 06:57 AM
nicolas10 wrote:
- As a side note I was talking about the real planes.
- As you all know, there are no in game cookie
- monsters, so it's pretty irrelevant to compare the
- in game planes. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif -
- Nic
-

Hmm seems pretty irrelevant to compare real Planes flown by Cookie Monsters that have been invented around 1969. But no doubt there is more place for cookies in the d9 than in the k4.
So its clear that after a short time the cookies on K4 are out and "Pilot" bails for more .)

For those not fishing .

To the Real planes.
The performance of the K4 is better in its max values but max values dont always decide battles. The light handling at high speeds of the dora (fb dora maybe a little overmodeled at high speed turns and rolls) and the limited rudder forces of the BF duo small cockpit should make the dora the better high speed df plane.As well no trimming was needed for high and slow speed and rudder on FW but thats only a thing of getting used to so BF Pilots didnt have a big disadvantage (trimmtab for rudder only setable on the ground for K4). At sealevel the Dora is also faster than the K4 but K4 has overall a better climbrate low and high as well as better turning at low speeds. The K4 is a relative small fighter so harder to hit than a d9. Guns comparisons the mk108 is not a long range gun(bad ballistics) and has a low rof . The Mg151 20 mm in the dora spreads more than the
mk108 but also increases the chance of a hit duo the higher rof and v0. Better ballistics makes it more predictable to use with the revi rings other than on convergence range.
Ammo types surely makes a diffrence too. But in this case damage on the k4 as well as on the dora influence the fligth performance that bad that a damaged wing tail engine is most likely the end for that one. A big advance on the K4 maybe the light weight compared to the dora makes it possible to get an edge in acceleration. So i conclude the K4 is better at alt with speed, better at turning at lower speeds . While dora has rollrate and higher speed at sea level as well as better turning at high speed. In 1 vs 1 the K4 would win i guess but its pretty close. In group vs group the dora.