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View Full Version : Is the gunsightview in FB/PF unrealistic??



Abbuzze
04-06-2005, 05:50 AM
Take a look at this small two videos.
They show the view if you look right into a gunsight.

(rightclick- "save as")
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/zip/Revi.zip
(this one is even better, cause its fixed at an instrumentpanel from a 109)
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/bilder/JG4_Revi.WMV


You will notice that the crosshair is moving if the camera is moving. This is very similar and very good simulated in our normalview in FB/PF.

But in the gunsightview the crosshair nearly stand still like made of steel, even in high G moves with changing directions- no real headshakes apear.

I think this is not realy realistic.

Adding such a small detail would increase the immersion a lot.
Just remember your last highspeed drive at a motorway, or try next time to "aim" through a dead fly at your frontwindow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Your Head is moving a lot if the street is not 100% ok.
Better take a ride at a rollercoaster, all this headmovement togehter with the moving crosshair from the links make me believe that that our gunsightview is not realitic, or at least optimistic...

A moving crosshair in our gunsightview would also make eavasivemoves like the Hartmann maneuver usefull. (Pushing the stick foreward and full rudder)

A last note to the 2nd movie, please notice that the middle of the crosshair start to disapear when you still look at the gunsight from the front, the edge of the reflectorglas is still more outside than the camera. So we are not talking about 20cm headmovement, a few cm/inch are enough to start this effect!



Maybe this is nothing for a coming patch, but maybe as an option for BOB to enable/disable it.

Abbuzze
04-06-2005, 05:50 AM
Take a look at this small two videos.
They show the view if you look right into a gunsight.

(rightclick- "save as")
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/zip/Revi.zip
(this one is even better, cause its fixed at an instrumentpanel from a 109)
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/bilder/JG4_Revi.WMV


You will notice that the crosshair is moving if the camera is moving. This is very similar and very good simulated in our normalview in FB/PF.

But in the gunsightview the crosshair nearly stand still like made of steel, even in high G moves with changing directions- no real headshakes apear.

I think this is not realy realistic.

Adding such a small detail would increase the immersion a lot.
Just remember your last highspeed drive at a motorway, or try next time to "aim" through a dead fly at your frontwindow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Your Head is moving a lot if the street is not 100% ok.
Better take a ride at a rollercoaster, all this headmovement togehter with the moving crosshair from the links make me believe that that our gunsightview is not realitic, or at least optimistic...

A moving crosshair in our gunsightview would also make eavasivemoves like the Hartmann maneuver usefull. (Pushing the stick foreward and full rudder)

A last note to the 2nd movie, please notice that the middle of the crosshair start to disapear when you still look at the gunsight from the front, the edge of the reflectorglas is still more outside than the camera. So we are not talking about 20cm headmovement, a few cm/inch are enough to start this effect!



Maybe this is nothing for a coming patch, but maybe as an option for BOB to enable/disable it.

JG5_UnKle
04-06-2005, 06:47 AM
Sounds good to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jurinko
04-06-2005, 06:50 AM
i think the 6dof in BoB will make things more realistic, like you will have to keep your head steady when shooting.. but who knows how the head moves depending on the plane movement will be modelled.

LLv34_Stafroty
04-06-2005, 06:52 AM
"Just remember your last highspeed drive at a motorway, or try next time to "aim" through a dead fly at your frontwindow "

i do that thing really often http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BBB_Hyperion
04-06-2005, 07:07 AM
Hmm though you lean on the revi and look with your right eye throught the round thing on the right front of the box which pretty much should eleminate the moving cause its placed that way that it is in the middle. Only when the plane shakes maybe effect is missing.

For the negative g turn to avoid beeing shoot at a simple effect of enemy pilot hanging in the air making it impossible to aim is missing .

Abbuzze
04-06-2005, 07:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Hmm though you lean on the revi and look with your right eye throught the round thing on the right front of the box which pretty much should eleminate the moving cause its placed that way that it is in the middle. Only when the plane shakes maybe effect is missing.
. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This leaning foreward to aim was maybe used while attacking a bomber or a plane flying straight, but in dogfight with turns, loops, rolls, splitS,... you will have no real chance to lean foreward and aim in this way and of course not in a 3g turn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif just try it in a rollercoaster...
And for straight flying even me don´t want a moving crosshair, there is no cause for it, and it also dont happens in our normalview.

BBB_Hyperion
04-06-2005, 09:08 AM
Human Eye has auto stabilizer .) But obviously the shift f1 view only shows the aim position. If zoomed in or out of the pov field its still the revi aim position.

Problem maybe better suited why isnt the pilot moving. Seems he is glued to the plane while performing all this moves and stay in this position the complete flight without getting tired . Good pilots could aim up to 3/4 g but i doubt anyone could hold this position we have ingame so long and not moving .)

Not using revi for short ranges maybe possible but over 100 m with 3 g turn near to impossible without it . The setup of the revi allows only looking from 1 point on the crosshair from every other point you will be off several degrees thats why correct aiming position is essential to use it. Thats why
turning and shooting should be difficult at least more than it is .

So when pilot is glued to revi i would exspect the thing we have now except shaking is missing. Everything else is Pilot modeling which doesnt exist and will not be be added in this sim. So gunsight view wrong from pilot eyes ,from plane's view not.

The revi center moves more when you are off the best aimline when you hold this it has its lowest moving factor possible.

So agreeing with jurinko on this one.

plumps_
04-06-2005, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The setup of the revi allows only looking from 1 point on the crosshair from every other point you will be off several degrees thats why correct aiming position is essential to use it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not correct. Some threads abouts reflective gunsights for you to read:

English (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=4361062362&p=1)

Deutsch (http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=59010161&f=388104122&m=1021041203)

BBB_Hyperion
04-06-2005, 10:43 AM
Did read them already since it was posted .)

But i meant the revi setup ingame or can you move around with your head there ? There are only 2 views shift f1 and normal. Pov or headdirection doesnt change position.

Fennec_P
04-06-2005, 11:14 AM
As far as the amplitude of head shake (especially while using gunsight view), Oleg said they deliberately made it far less than real life to improve playability.

He said that, realistically, it should be impossible to hold your head in line with the sight during high G (epsecially negative), or abrupt rolling manuevers. But if it were modelled that way, people would complain. Even the amount of G-induced headshake for normal view is much less than real life.

TooCool_12f
04-06-2005, 01:43 PM
what's more, some planes do have quite important head move even in "gunsight" view... I-185 comes to mind...

but, juste try to aim with no gunsight view, and you'll get a slight idea (but still heavily underdone) of what it may be like to try to aim while manouvering...

Abbuzze
04-07-2005, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Human Eye has auto stabilizer .) But obviously the shift f1 view only shows the aim position. If zoomed in or out of the pov field its still the revi aim position.

Problem maybe better suited why isnt the pilot moving. Seems he is glued to the plane while performing all this moves and stay in this position the complete flight without getting tired . Good pilots could aim up to 3/4 g but i doubt anyone could hold this position we have ingame so long and not moving .)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We already have an auto stabilizer in FB/PF, in fact it is not the crosshair that moves in normalview, it is the complete Plane, the crosshair is fixed!
This simulates a moving pilot - but in gunsightview/reviview he is glued thats what I call unrealitic.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Not using revi for short ranges maybe possible but over 100 m with 3 g turn near to impossible without it . The setup of the revi allows only looking from 1 point on the crosshair from every other point you will be off several degrees thats why correct aiming position is essential to use it. Thats why
turning and shooting should be difficult at least more than it is .
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I´m not talking about deleting the gunsightview or the zoom, we need it cause the limitations of our screens.
As I mentioned abouve we allways have the correct aiming position in this game! The crosshair is fixed. Unlooking/unglue the pilot just mean the cockpit will move more. It is more for the immersion, and you need to concentrate more, to be not distract from aiming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BBB_Hyperion
04-07-2005, 08:48 AM
Hmm glued to the revi means not glued to the plane .) Seems i lack some english precision lately or in general.

Anyway there wont be a pilot model in PF.

What can be changed is the revi shaking or high g aimpoint move. Which would include rework all planes revi setups if that is generalised its not that much work if its not all planes would need redo.

Henkie_
04-07-2005, 08:57 AM
I like the moving gunsightview also, but only for the 109's and other German planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For the spitfires it must be steady as rock http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BlackStar2000
04-13-2005, 01:57 PM
Abuzze i think the size og it its wrong too, Oleg once change it, or am i getting crazy?

Ratsack
04-19-2005, 05:56 AM
It's a good idea. I hope this is implemented in BoB with 6dof.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

Charos
04-19-2005, 06:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
As far as the amplitude of head shake (especially while using gunsight view), Oleg said they deliberately made it far less than real life to improve playability.

He said that, realistically, it should be impossible to hold your head in line with the sight during high G (epsecially negative), or abrupt rolling manuevers. But if it were modelled that way, people would complain. Even the amount of G-induced headshake for normal view is much less than real life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Rather than remove it, wouldnt it have been better to implement this further in the difficulty settings?.

Abbuzze
04-19-2005, 10:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charos:
Rather than remove it, wouldnt it have been better to implement this further in the difficulty settings?. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, as an additional setting it would be the best, especially for beginners...

Blackstar2000, you are right Oleg corrected it, before the gunsightcircle had the wrong size, it was set for 200m instead of 100m.

Recon_609IAP
04-20-2005, 04:00 PM
You mean the binoculars for finding ground targets?

Abbuzze
04-20-2005, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
You mean the binoculars for finding ground targets? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I mean the crosshair in our gunsights.