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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:10 AM
"UTRECHT, Netherlands (Reuters) - Computer game fanatics should not be labeled addicts, although many players say they are hooked on a hobby that is affecting their social lives, scientists said Tuesday.

"Some evidence exists that games stimulate the same areas in the brain as alcohol and other drugs, psychologists, sociologists and others were told at the world's first interdisciplinary games conference here.

"But unlike the addictive substances, there is no medicine to deal with compulsive gaming behavior, they heard.

"Although he used the word "addiction" in the classic Greek sense of "devotion," his survey of hundreds of heavy online games players showed half of them reported family conflict and romantic failure as a result of their hobby."


Imagine that.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:10 AM
"UTRECHT, Netherlands (Reuters) - Computer game fanatics should not be labeled addicts, although many players say they are hooked on a hobby that is affecting their social lives, scientists said Tuesday.

"Some evidence exists that games stimulate the same areas in the brain as alcohol and other drugs, psychologists, sociologists and others were told at the world's first interdisciplinary games conference here.

"But unlike the addictive substances, there is no medicine to deal with compulsive gaming behavior, they heard.

"Although he used the word "addiction" in the classic Greek sense of "devotion," his survey of hundreds of heavy online games players showed half of them reported family conflict and romantic failure as a result of their hobby."


Imagine that.

Hunter82
11-05-2003, 05:14 AM
I'll reply to this in more depth after I get done playing the Call of Duty campaign and finish up MOHAA Breakthrough. By then though the patch should be out so.........

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:18 AM
Gambling!? Here at Ricks's! I'm shocked. Shocked I say!

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:25 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There were also some scientists that thought Edison was a lunatic...

a man would never go into space...

bla blah bla.

That is just another ridiculous crutch for people that live in a fool's paradise.

Yuk!

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:25 AM
Eventually, almost everything will become an illness/addiction if social-scientists want to plan on a well funded career.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:28 AM
I'm hooked alright, but my relationship isn't that bad /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:30 AM
Where did the video game addicted scientists find the time to write the report?

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:32 AM
Love life is great, got a great girl. I only wish I could neglect her more, she's really cutting into my gaming time. (this post made in full seriousness) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:36 AM
arcadeace wrote:
- ... everything will become an illness/addiction ...

Yes. These message boards are proof of that. There are plenty of 'ill' people here! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Oh, and dics, too. I mean addictions, err, addicts.

And if any of you (guys) like this game more than girls, you better go to the Netherlands and let those crazytists, err, scientists, have a look at you. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Message Edited on 11/04/0310:38PM by RealKill

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:41 AM
Ha Nostri didn't play video games and neither should we.

Habbit/Addiction/Enjoyment-soc,psyc,psch, they're all pseudo sciences (there is a philosophy of science you know). Pragmatism validates some of it but it isn't inclusive enough to prove the validity of the soft sciences.
rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/241003-rogo3.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 11/04/0308:44PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 05:47 AM
"you better go to the Netherlands and let those crazytists"

I thought you were going to say "you better go to the Netherlands and enjoy the beautiful women." /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I guess I'm just an epicurian with a taste for flesh.

Don't read Keirkregard realkill /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



ohhhh

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/241003-rogo3.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 06:02 AM
Hey Rogodin:

("Pragmatism validates some of it but it isn't inclusive enough to prove the validity of the soft sciences.")

You seem to be saying that "soft sciences" have questionable validity, and therefore a purely behavioral addiction is not a valid concept. But addiction is most usefully defined by consequences. If someone, over time, gambles away his life savings and is divorced by his wife because of it, you can pretty well say he has a gambling addiction.

And if someone suffers ill consequences (whether he will admit to or even recognize them) because of obsessive gaming behavior, it would be safe to say that he has an addiction. Remember, this article is reporting a study where all the gamers answered questions about ~themselves~ and the effect gaming has had on their lives.

I find particularly interesting the people that immediately posted responses to this thread with a defensive tone.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 06:15 AM
You might be addicted if:

1. When you're not playing the game, you're checking out
the games forum.

2. You have over 200 post count.

3. You have a pretty sig.

4. You post threads on subjects such as FM and game
addiction.

5. And you know we're not talking about radio.

6. You know what IBTL and FNEB means, and if you don't,
you pretend you do.

7. When you're not playing the game or checking out the
games forum, you're building things with cardboard
and fresnel lenses.

8. Last years sun tan has faded away.

9. You're eating Raman Noodles for dinner.

10. If you've ever said LOL or check 6 to friends/family.

11. If you've Never said LOL or check 6 to friends/family
because you have non/They're not on-line.

12. You get cut off in traffic and you try to line up your
car on the guys six.

13. You check your rearview for bandits.

14. You know what trim is.

15. You have the 1.2 patch already.

16. You're whining about the 1.2 patch already.

17. Your house has wheels.

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"Any information that we receive concerning the real world is carefully controlled"

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 06:19 AM
"behavioral addiction"

behaviorism is a study itself (it has its own branch of epistimological research in philosophy).

Behaviorism is far from being a "true" science (just as I've state above).

Physical response is on a much more mundane level that real behaviorism because of the "pschological" element.
We can put fire under a persons feet and get the exact same reaction every time but this in no way helps us to a conclusion-this is your "ill consequenses" example but on a denser level.

"Paul has a toothache" for instance would abbreviate "Paul weeps and makes gestures of such and such kinds"; "At the question `What is the matter?,' Paul utters the words `I have a toothache'"

The problem with behaviorism is that is is basically a circular proposition and that we have a difficult time when it moves beyond the basis sense perceptions.

rogo





<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/241003-rogo3.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 06:20 AM
They release dopamine in the brain. Quite a few people realy like dopamine.

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 06:22 AM
Jeez this opens a HUGE can of worms.

rogo

Neorology is in the infantile stages but I'm a mystic and just don't want to belive.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/241003-rogo3.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 06:58 AM
Hey Rogodin, maybe you should learn how to structure an argument before jumping ahead and whipping out every phrase you remember from this semester's lower-division philosophy classes.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:04 AM
Thanks for the clarity big fella but I've a degree 4 years ago, just a bit rusty.


You don't have to be a jerk to question the validiy of my claims.

rogo


<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/241003-rogo3.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

eskimo-FHmod
11-05-2003, 07:13 AM
games are addictive?........... no kidding....



www.vaaf.com (http://www.strikemepink.com)

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:23 AM
Did you know that the monadology is part of doestoevsky's existentialism?


I personally agree, to a certain extent (within the school, not as a universal) with Skinner's radical behaviorism theory (never proven) that behaviour can be overervable or unobservable and that both can be analysed within the substantive framework of behaviourist psychology (ONLY to a certain degree).

The main problem I had with behaviourism (that I alluded to) was that of "privacy." I don't belive that private behaviourism is governed by the classic laws conditioning human behavior (the enviornment of a human is so varigated that the results CANNOT be determined (also because of mental funcionality that goes beyond what a rat associates with the chime).

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/241003-rogo3.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 11/04/0310:24PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:27 AM
Here is the crux of your arguement: "Some evidence exists that games stimulate"

"Some evidence" is hardly a valid premise for a support of a highly untenable "radical behaviourism".

What else do you expect?

A deep belief in the validity of this supposedly immutable claim by yours truly-"scuttlebut"?

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/241003-rogo3.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 08:03 AM
One word response... duh. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 11:11 AM
Personaly this i believe in the future may be a serious matter. I hate the way i need my fix sometimes and all else comes second.
The games are only gonna get better and the jones`n is gonna get worse.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 11:17 AM
S!

Well name me a person on this earth who has not experienced family conflict or romantic failure in his/her life. My point is that anything can become addictive under the right circumstances. But it depends on how you put it. After all man is mortal & will at all times make an effort to bypass this fact & the result will be some degree of escapism. Life is fatal & then you die but meanwhile there's nothing abusive or wrong in having a good time as long as it does not hurt others. Life can be unbearable so we try to make it tolerable in order to survive physically & mentally. Fiction & art of all kinds is our way to overcome/endure the life that is really killing us. Call it sick if you want but remember that it can be argued that everything we do, we do to survive: you get married or socialize to overcome loneliness, you eat to fight hunger, you work to avoid powerty & you frequent various entertainment products (like IL2) to stimulate yourself & avoid boredom. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

M0NS (authorized P39 pyrotechnician)



"Blow up the outside world"

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My garage!

Message Edited on 11/05/0310:19AM by M0NS

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 11:25 AM
Of course video games are addictive!

They allow people to escape their boring everyday lives, and do something exciting. Like shoot people or dogfight, etc.

I mean do you see Green Beret's playing Ghost Recon? Heck no they have to do that junk all the time. That's not fun thats work! lol
Woud be like me playing a game where you sit in a guard shack, and post idiotic messages on the net. lol

Really I have been addicted to video games all my life. I would get home from school, and start playing untill my parents made me go to bed. Then I would get up after they went to sleep and continue to play.
Then I would go to school with no homework done, and having not studied anything with big bags under my eye's and sleep all through class.
I still graduated though, but that's a given when you have a 27 ACT score and go to public school in Mississippi. lol

Sometime I kick myself for playing too much, and not doing other real things. So I'll just outright stop playing video games for a month or two.
The same with spending too much time in online forums. I have one friend, and broke up with my last girlfriend 6 months ago and haven't even so much as tried to get another yet.

I think I need some rehab lol.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 11:27 AM
Why is it that gaming is treated so much differently than any other hobby. Some guys go fishing alot, others paint, We play flight sims. I don't see the big deal.



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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 12:55 PM
Maybe its just monitor radiation addiction.

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:04 PM
Hopperfly22 wrote: "...do you see Green Beret's playing Ghost Recon? Heck no..."

Oh yes they do /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

fluke39
11-05-2003, 01:05 PM
ermm

has someone spiked you with acid today rogodin?



<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:17 PM
What is an addiction?

That is not exactly easy to define in itself. It's tricky to have a discussion about something being addicitve unless you have a sound definition as to what the "symptoms" of that additction are.

So, any takers: define addiction




"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:19 PM
fluke39 wrote:
- ermm
-
- has someone spiked you with acid today rogodin?
-
No he's Ok!

It's the rest of us coming to terms with the denial of erm......../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:26 PM
DKP wrote:
- Why is it that gaming is treated so much differently
- than any other hobby. Some guys go fishing alot,
- others paint, We play flight sims. I don't see the
- big deal.

Great point! What is the difference? Fishing, watching sporting events, running, eating, sex, music, art, greed, and even religion can be addictive. So what?

If the original post was not done in a sarcastic manner (Which I originally thought it was - to my dismay!) then these people need to run along and work on bigger human problems. Perhaps they should give some of their research money to help feed or cloth poor people.

I have a son that is 15. He uses the internet to play games, keep in touch with old friends that have moved away, and gossip with current friends. He plays baseball for his high school, gets straight "A's", and truly feels that he can discuss just about any subject with his father. He's a great kid. My point here is.. well, he drinks a lot of soda pop. So using the same logic as the "Scientists" perhaps drinking soda pop increases your social skills, makes you play sports, get good grades and have an open and understanding relationship with your father. Bah... Each and every person is different, and they cant be lumped into general classifications BECAUSE they ARE so different. Similarities are just that; similar. They are not exactly-the-same-a-larities. People are a product of their environment, shaped by their experiences, and tempered with their own conscience.

These "Scientific" types are so self-fulfilled it makes me sick. People do what people do because people do it. As long as they are not harming others directly or indirectly by their action or omissions, nothing is wrong with it.

I contend that the same people that they say "Are more likely to" blah blah blah, would have done blah blah blah, whether they played video games or not. The original statements are nothing more than an over-used and boring crutch for people to define a problem they they A) Dont truly understand B) Dont really want to deal with, or C) Dont want to take the blame for.

What these so-called "Scientists" are really afraid of is they dont have a cure that they can sell you for the crisis they want to create.

PLAYING DOOM II caused the students to shoot their teachers. How stupid is that, seriously?

Take your medicine baby, everything will be OK. "Create the crisis and sell them the cure." That's why we have a world full of Prozac addicts and general sociopaths.


OK, Im done. I'm going to go ignore my family and fly a little bit. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Perhaps I will beat them with a stick when I'm done...

How stupid can people get?




http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:31 PM
BTW: Nice trolling Suckerpunch11..

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:48 PM
Sad, the first stage is always denial. I fear the next stage, which will be anger - I'm so angry just thinking about . . . no I'm not . . . YES I am!

Video gaming is no doubt my biggest hobby. Most nights I play an hour or so before bed, after the kids are to sleep. I have loved gaming since my youth (almost 35 now). My wife likes to talk to her girlfriends on the phone at night while I'm playing, so I think I'm OK. You OK friend? I think we're all OK. Now I'm so confused . . .

Hawgdog
11-05-2003, 01:56 PM
pffffft

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There are no stupid questions,
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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 01:58 PM
LOL, yes, almost forgot the most used lines by the "Crisis creators"

You are in denial.

You are angry...


How convenient...



http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 03:23 PM
The argument is that while we lable new media types as addictive if we notice them to be cutting into social skills, old media types such as books don't get the same treatment. We do call people bookworms but we don't call them addicated - the gravity of calling something addicting is much more significant.

I view computer gaming much in the same vien as those who spend alot of time watching sports, hobby modeling, some people love to renovate and always have a job around the house going. Lots of behaviors display elements of addictive behavior, the difference I suppose is how severely they impact on the person when they are taken away.

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 03:26 PM
Men are hardwired to hunt and problem solve. The reason why games are so addictive is because our society does not allows us to indulge in these as often as we would like, but the games allow us to do these things at will. We can do puzzles, or hunt during season, but neither of these are as satisfying as 'virtually' blasting the face off an enemy.

Naturally, men don't get overly excited about relationships and family stuff, so pawning the blame off on gaming is really just an excuse.

My girl lets me game every other night. She understands that I need to get my "fix", otherwise i get cranky. I also understand her need for my attention, so the "off-nights" are devoted to her. Its fair and makes our 'alone time' much more enjoyable.

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 04:20 PM
-Video Games Are Addictive .... .... O' Really? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 06:56 PM
helgstrand wrote:
- You might be addicted if:
-
- 1. When you're not playing the game, you're
- checking out
- the games forum.
-
-
- 2. You have over 200 post count.
-
- 3. You have a pretty sig.
-
- 4. You post threads on subjects such as FM and game
- addiction.
-
-
- 5. And you know we're not talking about radio.
-
- 6. You know what IBTL and FNEB means, and if you
- don't,
- you pretend you do.
-
-
- 7. When you're not playing the game or checking out
- the
- games forum, you're building things with
- cardboard
-
- and fresnel lenses.
-
-
- 8. Last years sun tan has faded away.
-
- 9. You're eating Raman Noodles for dinner.
-
- 10. If you've ever said LOL or check 6 to
- friends/family.
-
- 11. If you've Never said LOL or check 6 to
- friends/family
- because you have non/They're not on-line.
-
-
- 12. You get cut off in traffic and you try to line
- up your
- car on the guys six.
-
-
- 13. You check your rearview for bandits.
-
- 14. You know what trim is.
-
- 15. You have the 1.2 patch already.
-
- 16. You're whining about the 1.2 patch already.
-
- 17. Your house has wheels.
-

18. You haven't shaved, taken a shower or brushed your teeth in the last 2 days because you have been playing computer games.
19. Have called in sick to work just to play computer games



Message Edited on 11/05/03 12:56PM by dragonhart38

Message Edited on 11/05/03 12:57PM by dragonhart38

Message Edited on 11/05/0312:57PM by dragonhart38

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:17 PM
Nacy Reagan said the same thing in 1983.

an NOW look, were all drooling over out keyboards waiting for this 1.2 patch. Worse than crack I tell ya,
ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGg !

...
..
.
ok, I'm fine, really.

http://home.comcast.net/~icarus1/BSsig.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:29 PM
"Hi, I'm ShaK, and I'm a gamming addict!"
. -Welcome ShaK. Let it out, Its ok
"My Wife supports me. I play games at home. I got an office job just so I can play games at work."
"I pass up sex because Ill miss something online"

. -Now thats just disturbing, YOUR kind is not welcome here. Please leave before we have you removed.

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all powered by 550 WATTS

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 07:36 PM
There are other hobbies besides flight sims?.....Wow, I never heard that.....Here...hold my joystick...while I check to see if this is true...

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 08:00 PM
Suckerpunch11 wrote:

- his survey of
- hundreds of heavy online games players showed half
- of them reported family conflict and romantic
- failure as a result of their hobby."
-
-


:-|


*looks shifty, says nothing*

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 08:30 PM
HMMM, can you get bored of an addiction?

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 08:33 PM
ShaK. wrote:
- "Hi, I'm ShaK, and I'm a gamming addict!"
- . -Welcome ShaK. Let it out, Its ok
- "My Wife supports me. I play games at home. I got an
- office job just so I can play games at work."
- "I pass up sex because Ill miss something online"
-
- . -Now thats just disturbing, YOUR kind is not
- welcome here. Please leave before we have you
- removed.
-


Funny I thought this was home for ppl like ShaK.

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 08:54 PM
I'm not addicted, but FB sure has affected my brain. For example the other day I was on a phone conference using the speakerphone, and I ended a sentence with "Over". That was kind of embarrassing. Between 8 years in the military and a year of IL-2, I'm all fekcd up. That reminds me, anyone else see an enemy fighter exploding in front of you at the moment of climax with your girl?

S!

SKULLS_LZ

SKULLS Squadron VF-98
"Better than the Best"

XyZspineZyX
11-05-2003, 09:00 PM
helgstrand wrote:
- You might be addicted if:
-

-
- 6. You know what IBTL and FNEB means, and if you
- don't,
- you pretend you do.


since I don't know what FNEB is, does that mean I'm not an addict? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

so, could somebody clear me on this one? (IBTL) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Killing for peace is like whoring for virginity.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:56 AM
Yes, but what they don't tell you is not only does this part of the brain get stimulated in video games, alcohol and drugs, it also gets stimulated by doing all sorts of other activities and hobbies you may enjoy. You like to go fishing?? That same area of the brain gets stimulated. Like to play pool?? A common board game?? Work on your car??
Water/snow skiing/boarding?? Play tennis? Ride your motorcycle?? You name it, as far as things people like to do, it affects that area of the brain. They
didn't want to mention that, did they??? Oops, they must have forgot!?!?!?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:58 AM
Is there a Patch for video game addiction?



Sorry I just couldn't resist.

S!

SKULLS_LZ

Solutions For A Small Bandit

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 12:48 PM
At least it's relatively cheap compared to the other addictions mentioned. These sound like the guys who said "The medical device we've invented is completely safe because it's computer controlled". Really.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 12:55 PM
AlGroover wrote:
- At least it's relatively cheap compared to the other
- addictions mentioned. These sound like the guys who
- said "The medical device we've invented is
- completely safe because it's computer controlled".
- Really.
-
-

Very true! If I had the cash I would be flying real planes. No one would turn their nose up at that. Of course eral flying is nice but you don't get to blow stuff up! When I was doing my ppl and was flying solo in the states I would pretend to bomb bridges etc....that was fun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif


<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 01:08 PM
drapis wrote:
-
- helgstrand wrote:
-- You might be addicted if:
--
- 6. You know what IBTL and FNEB means, and if you
-- don't,
-- you pretend you do.
-
- since I don't know what FNEB is, does that mean I'm
- not an addict? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
-You only have to comply with one of them to be an addict.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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"Any information that we receive concerning the real world is carefully controlled"