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View Full Version : IMO. My thoughts on the perfomance of US Aircraft vs Uber German Aircraft.



XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:21 AM
For the past 2 weeks now I have been flying all of the aircraft that are in this game.
I have compared, examined and researched a great deal of information in regards to the over performance of German Aircraft vs the under performances of US aircraft.
IMO if the USAAF had to fly these planes against these German planes in WWII, there is no doubt in my mind that I would be living in New Berlin right now.
Furthermore I am sick to death of all these luftwhiners and there uber unrealistic aircraft not to mention that they ALL try and give them selves a tactical advantage by putting severely under modeled p-47's up against over modeled German aircraft. While I admit to having limited knowledge of actually WWII aircraft, even an idiot can see that there in no Sam way in h3ll that a BF 109 F2 could out perform a p-47D27 in ariel combat. It's preposterous! Yet they do in FB. So here every one is screaming and crying for a patch. And to be quite honest I don't see any patch helping the performance of US aircraft. Some where, somehow, someone has it in their thick heads that all us aircraft are all crap. In real life this was not so. But in FB it IS.
I'm sick of it. As it stands now, if I want to actually kill bf 109's in a p-47 I have to park them on a run way and strafe them. Call it a whine, call it a B*tching out, what ever I don't care. I am officially making my feelings & opinions known on the performances of this game. And something has to be done. The luftwhiners constantly lobby for their aircraft, and this is why they are modeled the way they are. Maybe if I send 1c $1000.00 donation I can get these US aircraft modeled right.
As for that patch, I have little hope that it will even begin to scratch the surface enough to level the playing field.


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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:21 AM
For the past 2 weeks now I have been flying all of the aircraft that are in this game.
I have compared, examined and researched a great deal of information in regards to the over performance of German Aircraft vs the under performances of US aircraft.
IMO if the USAAF had to fly these planes against these German planes in WWII, there is no doubt in my mind that I would be living in New Berlin right now.
Furthermore I am sick to death of all these luftwhiners and there uber unrealistic aircraft not to mention that they ALL try and give them selves a tactical advantage by putting severely under modeled p-47's up against over modeled German aircraft. While I admit to having limited knowledge of actually WWII aircraft, even an idiot can see that there in no Sam way in h3ll that a BF 109 F2 could out perform a p-47D27 in ariel combat. It's preposterous! Yet they do in FB. So here every one is screaming and crying for a patch. And to be quite honest I don't see any patch helping the performance of US aircraft. Some where, somehow, someone has it in their thick heads that all us aircraft are all crap. In real life this was not so. But in FB it IS.
I'm sick of it. As it stands now, if I want to actually kill bf 109's in a p-47 I have to park them on a run way and strafe them. Call it a whine, call it a B*tching out, what ever I don't care. I am officially making my feelings & opinions known on the performances of this game. And something has to be done. The luftwhiners constantly lobby for their aircraft, and this is why they are modeled the way they are. Maybe if I send 1c $1000.00 donation I can get these US aircraft modeled right.
As for that patch, I have little hope that it will even begin to scratch the surface enough to level the playing field.


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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:25 AM
Any plane that had a swastika on it automatically got a 10% performance boost. I have the charts to prove it.




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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:30 AM
Cowace if i wasnt so ticked off i'd think you were joking.
while i'm sure you are joking, i dont think your that far off from the truth.

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:37 AM
I dont think you guys got it right. Fly the FW and see how overmodeled it is. The FW should be superior to the 109, but it sure isnt. Its just that heavy planes in general are modeled bad. Does the P39 suck? That is american. This is just as stupid as the "luftwhiners" grouping everything together and saying all LW planes are undermodeled. I am american, and i like the american planes, I dont see how they are so bad. If this heavy planes issue gets worked out, american planes will be great, but like the LW planes only if flown the way they historicly were. So all you americans, when you are going to whine about all your planes being undermodeled, hop in the P39 and maybe you will rethink.

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"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:39 AM
cowace2 wrote:
- Any plane that had a swastika on it automatically
- got a 10% performance boost. I have the charts to
- prove it.


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Well done cowace!!!!

I pretty much agree with you Copperhead. For the most part the speeds in FB are WAY undermodeled, with the exception of the 109s and 190s, which seem to be a little over done.

I really believe that if the speed bar read out in MPH instead of KPH there would be a lot more complaints about speeds in FB.

I find it very hard to believe that most WW2 fighters trundled along at 185 to 225 MPH.

Just wait for the release of the P51. This place will look like a tornado struck. Then 1C will stop supporting IL2/FB and we will be stuck with what we have.

The future looks bleak.

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:40 AM
Ooh, firing up the popcorn popper right now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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Message Edited on 06/28/0306:41PM by UCLANUPE

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:45 AM
ElAurens wrote:
- Just wait for the release of the P51. This place
- will look like a tornado struck. Then 1C will stop
- supporting IL2/FB and we will be stuck with what we
- have.
-
- The future looks bleak.

I have said this more than once. I am practicing my duck and cover routine right now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Message Edited on 06/28/0306:45PM by UCLANUPE

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 02:50 AM
lbhskier37 wrote:

So all you americans, when
- you are going to whine about all your planes being
- undermodeled, hop in the P39 and maybe you will
- rethink.
Gee what do you think im doing? "oh now the us palens are all modeld perfectly" yeah right! and the p-39 is the ONLY us ac in the game that even comes close to being right. funny that you should single out that plane to make your point. I, along with a lot of other people would like to see more us planes in the game. but ONLY if the damm DM & FM is right. Gibbage is working his but off modeling us air craft for FB, and it's going to be a shame when all his hard work, along with others, becomes all for nothing because the Luftwhiners all lobby for the us planes to be undermodled. and no i dont think any of the 190's is undermodled. the 109's are Over modled. not the other way around. yet i dont see a single Luftwhiner asking for the FM to be corrcted in the 109, instead they're all asking the DEV for FM increases and to fix there 190 dashboards so they can stick a laser sight in the cockpit with them.

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:06 AM
I'm keeping my mouth shut till the patch comes out. I dp very well against the german planes..off line anyway..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:11 AM
And while i'm b*ching ppl out i have a bone to pick with UbI Soft as well. whats' this thing about paying for add-on aircraft? From what i undestand, as of right now there will be 2 patches. 1 for DM-FM & bug fixes and one for new aircraft. rumor is we will have to Pay for the 2nd patch!not me. nope. I'm telling UBI soft right now thatIF THIS IS THE CASE I WILL NEVER PURCHASE ANOTHER UBI SOFT PRODUCT AS LONG AS I LIVE. UBI Soft i would sugeest that you get your maketing dept. off their lazy areses and have them check their marketing demographics and where most of your sales are comming from. i'm sure that you'll find it aint from Eruope.


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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:13 AM
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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:27 AM
OK, here is the thing with the FW. I could care less about the dash. I know its got a little too much on the top end too, and wouldnt be hurt if that was changed. But the fact is heavy planes dont have the dive or zoom climb advantage they should. That is the real problem here. There are planes on all sides that have their climb and top speed borked right now and that is supposed to be fixed. If you look at the actual data, these FMs are not so off. Do you remember hearing about any P47s fighting downlow against Yaks? This game takes plane out of their intented environment by its nature. And dont go citing my hundreds of pilots claims about how their P47 could turn fight with a 109, you dont know the complete cricumstances and the pilot skills. these mass encompassing whines p!ss me off, if you have a real problem with something in the flight model point it out. Do you really think they goal of the developers is to change history? Thats just ******ed. And I mentioned the P39 for the simple fact that you said all american planes are undermodeled, that one sure as hell isnt. Its all about the zoom and dive, that is the real problem, now hop in a FW and try to outzoom a Yak3 and tell me what happens?

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"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.


--NJG26_Killa--

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/FW190.jpg .

"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

The_Blue_Devil
06-29-2003, 03:29 AM
German planes in this game are undermodelled. The K4 alone is 500 horses short..and the Dora is an embarrasment. The advantage of all/most American planes is Altitude. If you want to win..fly high and BnZ. Use the Jug to it's advantages and not it's disadvantages. Advantages include superior numbers and superior dive and zoom rates. My squad has used the Jug in dogfight servers very effectively because we practice high alt/BnZ tactics. If you fly a Jug under 3-4km you deserve to get Bounced. It is a high altitude interceptor, not a low level TnB plane. As Always Team Work is a Must.

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:30 AM
perhaps you are looking from the wrong perspective. The p-40 and p-47 are heavy fighters/ground attack. they were newer intended to fight a 109 one on one. The American's almost always had superior numbers and you would see an american fighter with a wingman, always, never trying to go by itself.

They were bigger, heavier, more guns, and therefore the couldn't come close to outturning their German counterparts. This didn't really matter, however, because they could use something called 'Tactics' and play their strengths (armor, firepower, NUMBERS) against the German's weaknesses.

I am in no way surprised or offended that a 109 will beat a p-40 and p-47 in a turning fight. That is the way things are.

You are basically whining becauseeven though the US and allies won the war, the p-40 and p-47 can't outturn an I-153 or outrun a B-1.

HA!


That said, I love flying 40's and 47's online, although I'm not great at them, but I have been thouroughly OWNED by p-40's and 47's when I'm flying my uber La-7.



The problem is this: online people don't fight the way rl american pilots fought.

You don't know anything about flying american heavies and perhaps you should learn before whining that they don't enjoy an automatic victory LaZoR beam coming from the big white stars.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:33 AM
don't take me too seriously cause i'm drunk.

ok m8. i'd really like to discuss that with you. i don't think american planes are underm. except rollrate of the P47. in general they are quite good. don't say the LW planes are overm. cause they are surely not. K4 is. but in general they had great speed and performance.

btw 100 posts doesn't mean that i'm not flying. i'm just not posting too often. i'm playing the game since IL2 came out so don't tell me you are flying more than me just because you got over 500 posts. So lets discuss this issue with facts and without insults. sorry if you felt attacked. i just don't agree with you but i don't agree with the ppl too who say the FW is unflyable cause it is a great plane in the game. Anyway so why do you think the US planes are not good?

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Message Edited on 06/29/0310:00PM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:34 AM
Cooper,

Are you drunk? If your not. Then get drunk, and give up on this thread. It's going nowhere.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:36 AM
LOL Cooper...man. Well as for topic...i think some german aircraft was superior to american and russian for that matter too. And they are. If you expecting P-47 putfly FW190 or 109...i think it`s just wrong mate. Same applies for P40. Mustang on the other hand should be almost equal to late LW aircraft. I`v seen P-40 and P-47 fly live. And i must say that Mustang was like a modern plane compare to those two.. Corsair right behind it.
Someone said that 190 was superior to 109...not entirely true. Oleg was right when he said that 190 was not feared by russian fighter jocks as 109 was. But in the same time 190 was clearly superior to 109 in taking down IL2s and other bombers.
Maybe you got mixed up in flying all years servers mate...try 1943 server where P-47 is not as bad as appears. Late 109`s and 1944 and up 190`s are superior to P-47 and that should be that way, don`t you think? 1 on 1 P-47 has no chance. But try flight P-47`s....now we are talking hehe. Been there..it like an instant death if you not careful in 109 when facing couple of P-47`s.
No i don`t fly then, sticking to LW from day one...but i`v seen people quiet successful in P-47, especially squads.
Same applies to P-40, in its own era it`s a good match to 109 when explosion bug is fixed. I flew K4 against Relentov that flew P-40 and i must say...i had no idea that it`s gonna be so hard to achieve victory and i never did...had to head home on fumes after 20 min encounter. But if it wasn`t for K4`s climb...i`d be dead. So i wouldn`t say that american planes are horrible. And i`m not gonna bring P-39 in this conversation...toughest bird to beat when good jock behind the wheel /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Just my 02c

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:42 AM
continued:

if you are attacked in ANY 109 or 190 by a P47 with slight hight advantage for example you are lost except the pilot sucks. the .50 guns are great and they can turn nicely against latew war germans. just their climb speed is lower which is a fact. you just have to know how to fight with those planes.

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:44 AM
Buzz,
your right it was a fool hearty attempt to begin with. And yes , it's Saturday night and I've been drinking and flying all afternoon, so yeah I am slightly inebriated at the moment as well as ticked off.
And guy, sorry I called you mom a troll. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:44 AM
i believe the comment about the game having trouble modeling heavier aircraft is the most relevant, because it does seem to be a bit "off" in the kinetic energy differences between enourmous planes like the Jug, and little ones like the 109. But aside from that observation, it really boils down to how the planes are flown in the game vs. how they really engaged enemy aircraft in the war. Heck, the Jug was a huge friggin plane, and had to be flown very differently than the 109. A competant pilot in one might get his butt kicked in the other in a hurry, and vice versa. its really hard to compare the two...I think pilot skill and knowledge of his aircraft's strong and weak points would have more influence on the outcome of a 1 vs 1 engagement than just the aircraft type itself.

Keep in mind that all fighters had their strong points, and weak ones. fighters were puropse built for their specific fighter role. example: the 'Sturmbock' Fw-190s (anti-bomber) were so heavily armoured and armed that they needed flights of 109s and "normal" 190s to cover them. they would be toast in a fighter vs. fighter engagement, even though they were fighters themselves. Jugs were built for long range bomber escort, and were pretty crappy in a turning fight. they relied heavily on numerical superiority and group tactics, altitude advantage, etc. One of their greatest assets (according to the pilots that flew them) was the ability to dive and run away. When they didn't have numerical or tactical advantage they didnt engage, period.
I guess what Im trying to say is that in the typical online running gun battles that we fly in, its hard to really simulate the types of engagements that took plane in WWII, and therefore hard to say which fighters are over or under modeled. Just my opinion. =)
I just look at this IL2/FB thing as a fantastic game, about as perfect or far from it as any of us are! just take it for what it is, enjoy it, and have fun. =) and if you want to score in your Jug then get a bunch of buddies together in a huge swarm, use group fighting tactics, and raise some hell. Believe me, you would.


see you all in the unfriendly skies!

-ron

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:52 AM
Copperhead310th wrote:
- Buzz,
- your right it was a fool hearty attempt to begin
- with. And yes , it's Saturday night and I've been
- drinking and flying all afternoon, so yeah I am
- slightly inebriated at the moment as well as ticked
- off.
- And guy, sorry I called you mom a troll. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
-
-
-
NO problm mate let's forget about it I started to call you a troll (alcohol has some strange effects sometimes lol).
I'm flying LW planes most of the times but i have to say that I want the P47 for example to fly like it did. I'm of the opinion that all the planes should be modeled correctly. I want my enemy plane to be good otherwise it would get boring to fly, wouldn't it? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:57 AM
"Jugs were built for long range bomber escort, and were pretty crappy in a turning fight. they relied heavily on numerical superiority and group tactics, altitude advantage, etc. One of their greatest assets (according to the pilots that flew them) was the ability to dive and run away. When they didn't have numerical or tactical advantage they didnt engage, period."

Couldnt have said it better. Right on!


Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 04:08 AM
Unless Robert Johnson was smoking crack in the book Thunderbolt! - there was no fear in going head to head with 190's and 109's and kicking some butt.

Over and over he talks of 190's trying to dive away only for him to overtake them and blow them away - also, he made good use of the spiral climb knowing the 190 couldn't keep the nose up to get that shot in.

Granted, good pilots can do about anything it seems http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Same with FB - so - maybe it's more about the 'way' you fight.

Only major complaint I have is when i park behind a yak or 190 with .50's and feel like I fired a bb gun instead of these monsters.

Fix that and I'd be happier http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
609IAP_Recon

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Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:03 AM
Copper while I agree to an extent with you there are some things that the Jug does very well. First I will start with what is wrong with the Jug.
1) Roll rate is way off we all now that
2) Top speed is also way off, but I really think this affects almost every plane in FB.
3) Climb rate is off in the D-22 and 27, why you ask I say this? Well there is no difference between the D-10, 22 or 27 in climb rate where there should be a considerable difference in the 22 and 27 over the 10 because of the paddle blades. It was later found that the paddle blades were not moddelled into the later model Jugs and hopefully will be fixed, then we can see about Zoom climb.
Now the Jug is a great plane still and can be very deadly if flown with proper tactics, i.e. fly in pairs and BnZ from altitude dont get suckered down low or into a turning engagement. She is all I fly online or off and I am fairly sure she will be fixed with the patch as far as the above listed flaws. And I do also agree that we should not have to pay for add-on a/c that were advertised as being in the game to begin with. Now we have not heard for sure that this will be a paid add-on so I will wait till I hear for sure before I lose my cool. But I will danged if I have to pay for the P-51 when it is already in the game and only needs to be made flyable.
~S!
Eagle

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center> <center> www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)

<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/CindyII.jpg> </center>


Message Edited on 06/29/0304:05AM by Eagle_361st

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:42 AM
Salute

Check out this thread, in which I include some detailed research to prove the P-47 could fight one on one:

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zeeya


Cheers RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:53 AM
Don't get too upset til the patch is out. then there will be different complaints & arguments.

Personnally i like to fly everything & want it all modelled as well as possible, but since i don't stick with one plane & i fly mostly off-line (& far too little ) I have yet to get upset. Although if I were a yak 9 pilot I trade my wife's sister for the windscreen from a Yak 1B.


http://www.mountainworks.co.nz/images/yak.jpg


"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:08 AM
190 is a big disappointment for me
109 is more or less good
LA5 and YAK3 are totally AMAZING (questionable)
P47 trash
P39 kind of like 109
P40 too old to be good

I think 190 is the most undermodelled plane. P47 is big and heavy, I don't think it is undermodelled, it is probably faster than the 190D9 at 6000, so thats a good thing.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:15 AM
P47 altitude is above 7000m-9500m. there itÔ┬┤s fine.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/kubanskiloewe/110missing.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:25 AM
This is definitely a case of Mr. Copperhead talking out of his rear.


These claims of a 109F-2 "outperforming" a P-47 are quite vague. Surely he's talking of the climbrates and turning radius, two items the F-2 could easily outdo the P-47 in below the P-47's rated altitude of 25000ft.


He should fly a P-47 at its rated altitude and say it sucks. I had one chugging away at 700km/h TAS at 10000m the other day.




_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

The_Blue_Devil
06-29-2003, 06:42 AM
Yea I remember we did that test Heiden..you outclimbed me and were faster on deck..but at 25,000ft and better I started cruisin at 700kph+ and that was on 100% fuel load and extra ammo.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySig.gif> </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:48 AM
Amen. I was flying the F-4. I had a huge climb and speed advantage up to around 600. From there you took off and I had absolutely no chance of catching you. Had we gotten into a dogfight at 10000m where we were I would have stood no chance. There was a 150+ km difference in speed. I was at 110% cooking my motor and you were just cruising.




_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:51 AM
I dunno. I was online in a K4. I dove on a YAk 3 1000M below me who was already climbing. I dove, got no shot off, and climbed with full power and boost. I was thinking about turning back over at the apex of my climb when I saw tracers flying by my window. I looked back and the Yak 3 was at 500M and GAINING!!!! He soon shot me down. The Yak 3 is faster and climbs better then the 109K4 with MW50 boost. Plus I had the E from the 1000M dive and he was already climbing. So much for your over-modeled theries http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ElAurens wrote:
- cowace2 wrote:
-- Any plane that had a swastika on it automatically
-- got a 10% performance boost. I have the charts to
-- prove it.
-
- Well done cowace!!!!
-
- I pretty much agree with you Copperhead. For the
- most part the speeds in FB are WAY undermodeled,
- with the exception of the 109s and 190s, which seem
- to be a little over done.
-
- I really believe that if the speed bar read out in
- MPH instead of KPH there would be a lot more
- complaints about speeds in FB.
-
- I find it very hard to believe that most WW2
- fighters trundled along at 185 to 225 MPH.
-
- Just wait for the release of the P51. This place
- will look like a tornado struck. Then 1C will stop
- supporting IL2/FB and we will be stuck with what we
- have.
-
- The future looks bleak.
-
- <center><FONT
- color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> <img
- src="http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40h
- ome.gif">
- </img>.
-
- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by
- night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in
- the day that it was vanity:
- but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for
- they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make
- them possible. "
- --T.E. Lawrence
-
-



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 07:00 AM
JV44Heiden

I think the F4 is porked right now. It out climbs the G6a/s. This can't be accurate.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/hartm1-2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 07:01 AM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- No i don`t fly then, sticking to LW from day
- one...but i`v seen people quiet successful in P-47,
- especially squads.
- Same applies to P-40, in its own era it`s a good
- match to 109 when explosion bug is fixed. I flew K4
- against Relentov that flew P-40 and i must say...i
- had no idea that it`s gonna be so hard to achieve
- victory and i never did...had to head home on fumes
- after 20 min encounter. But if it wasn`t for K4`s
- climb...i`d be dead. So i wouldn`t say that american
- planes are horrible. And i`m not gonna bring P-39 in
- this conversation...toughest bird to beat when good
- jock behind the wheel

ive flown against this gent a handful of times, he in his 109 and me (and my wingman) in p-40's. hes very good at flying his plane the way it was intended to be flown. when he booms and zooms us in our 40's we can only defend. we know it, he knows it. theres nothing we in 40's can really do about it but defend. our 40's cant climb up to 5000 and play with him there. however we were just in a server with crazyivan for an hour or more. within that time i watched him come to our base at 5000. bnz till he was out of ammo or fuel, and then rtb at 5000. he did this time and time again, only dying once (collision) and racking up 1000 plus points. im tired of switching planes to one that can go up high so my wingman and i stayed in our p-40. but there were about 6 people on my team that were in yaks and la's. every damn one of them was fighting off the deck. we were being bnz'd by their whole team, minus maybe 3 guys and every la and yak went for those 3 guys instead of getting altitude and allowing the p-40s and hurris in the server to get the low bandits. for 1 + hours this was happening...its probably still happening as i left the server about 20 minutes ago. none of the yaks or la's got the idea. they let themselves and us systematically get our butts kicked, time and time again, i guess being ok with it because they got to shoot down those 3 low bandits...

its all about flying within the planes limitations. if i see a 109 with altitude advantage then i run for a friendly that is at or above his altitude. im not going to climb into outer space in my 40 to play at his altitude because its just not going to work out. if noone is around then im on the defensive hoping someone will show up or he will mess up or run out of fuel or ammo.

i hope this post is still relivant, as i only read down to the lower portion of the first page before posting

S!

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 07:11 AM
Buzz, the G-6/AS is the best climber in the game, be sure!


Even better than the K-4. I've timed each of the three planes up to 5000m. The G-6/AS as modelled currently wins with a time just over three minutes.




_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 07:13 AM
Gib, I am not talking about dive or zoom climb speeds. These are seperate matters, and I agree that there are problems in this area. I am talking only about level flight speeds. In level flight I feel most AC are too slow. Did WW2 aircraft spend most of their time at 300 to 350 KPH (186.41 to 217.48 MPH)? I don't really know, but I have my doubts.

Have you ever been able to get a P40 to 580KPH (360MPH) in level flight? You should, as that is the top speed of most variants of P40.

It seems to me that we are flying a WW2 sim at interwar period speeds.

There is a global problem with speed in IL2/FB.

<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 07:30 AM
JV44Heiden

Pm me your mail addy. I'll send you a chart for all the planes. It will surprise you.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/hartm1-2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 09:15 AM
Dear moderating team,
as the formally Drunken' Arss that posted this silly thread to begin with i humbaly ask that it be locked and if at all posible DELETED!.
And i furthermore request that i no longer be allowd to post here while intoxicated. Now some one please grab an
IL-2 and fly me home my head is spinning.

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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 09:26 AM
I can see that my post about how the patch will change "everything" has gone to waste. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 11:38 AM
Copperhead310th wrote:
- For the past 2 weeks now I have been flying all of
- the aircraft that are in this game.
- I have compared, examined and researched a great
- deal of information in regards to the over
- performance of German Aircraft vs the under
- performances of US aircraft.
- IMO if the USAAF had to fly these planes against
- these German planes in WWII, there is no doubt in my
- mind that I would be living in New Berlin right now.
-
-
- Furthermore I am sick to death of all these
- luftwhiners and there uber unrealistic aircraft not
- to mention that they ALL try and give them selves a
- tactical advantage by putting severely under modeled
- p-47's up against over modeled German aircraft.
- While I admit to having limited knowledge of
- actually WWII aircraft, even an idiot can see that
- there in no Sam way in h3ll that a BF 109 F2 could
- out perform a p-47D27 in ariel combat. It's
- preposterous! Yet they do in FB. So here every one
- is screaming and crying for a patch. And to be quite
- honest I don't see any patch helping the performance
- of US aircraft. Some where, somehow, someone has it
- in their thick heads that all us aircraft are all
- crap. In real life this was not so. But in FB it IS.
-
- I'm sick of it. As it stands now, if I want to
- actually kill bf 109's in a p-47 I have to park them
- on a run way and strafe them. Call it a whine, call
- it a B*tching out, what ever I don't care. I am
- officially making my feelings & opinions known on
- the performances of this game. And something has to
- be done. The luftwhiners constantly lobby for their
- aircraft, and this is why they are modeled the way
- they are. Maybe if I send 1c $1000.00 donation I can
- get these US aircraft modeled right.
- As for that patch, I have little hope that it will
- even begin to scratch the surface enough to level
- the playing field.
-
You should really learn to fly. If you want american aircraft behaving superior right with the first flight, you should buy one of the CFS series.

I bet you didn't figure a way past the P-40 explosion bug yet?

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

http://members.chello.se/ven/ham-pin.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 11:39 AM
I think the current American planes are fine, except for the slow roll rate of P-47.. Some people should realize that this is only a game.. and I find it extremely hard to simulate exact air combat.. I believe P-47 was a B&Z-plane.. and she was very good at that.. Not a dog fighter! Anyway P-39 is extremely good, only weakness is beeing bit slow and poor visibility ..



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 11:45 AM
What a pathetic whiner!


FW190 will always be crippled unlike USAF planes!

"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 11:53 AM
I'm not even a good enough pilot to have an opinion. I'm just here for the show. Could someone please pass the salt? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



(All I know is I'm having a blast with FB as it is, patch or not.)

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 12:10 PM
There are general problems with the fm in FB, this does not only affect the P-47. High altitude fm was, and will stay poo in FB i guess. If you want results in the P-47, fly as historical, most important a numerical superiority over german aircraft of at least 7:1. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

============================
When it comes to testing new aircraft or determining maximum performance, pilots like to talk about "pushing the envelope." They're talking about a two dimensional model: the bottom is zero altitude, the ground; the left is zero speed; the top is max altitude; and the right, maximum velocity, of course. So, the pilots are pushing that upper-right-hand corner of the envelope. What everybody tries not to dwell on is that that's where the postage gets canceled, too.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:03 PM
one thing. Learn to fly.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 06:54 PM
And I'm sick of the US fanboys who think whatever from the US kick ***, and whatever made somewhere else plain sucks.

Nic

http://nicolas10.freeservers.com/images/et.jpg


OK I -->[]

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 09:08 AM
Several things lead to this kind of discussion......

FB's FM favours low-wingloaded fighters
There is no High-Alt FM
CEM is not implemented properly

LW aircraft have been robbed of significant historical advantages by having a non-existant high-alt FM - You can't argue with that, it isn't "Luftwhining"

Energy bleed (although better in some areas) still remains unbalanced allowing low wing loaders to get away with outrageous maneuvering with little performance penalty - this is true to a degree but having La5FN's loop over me at 8000M is a bit much.

CEM issues mean that on the VVS types are just Supercharger changes (wow really difficult and taxing) and the odd mixture change, why bother with a high-tech engineering solution like in the 190 when the VVS aircraft were so much better without it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Be sure.

I agree the P-47 needs some work. Dive attributes of many aircraft have issues for me. You can outdive anything in the Jug, but not by a good (safe) margin. Same in the 190, get a Yak behind you and try outdiving him - see where that get's you. Lighter aircraft seem to have no problem keeping up with (and not breaking up!) heavy BnZ types. The Cobra is totally uber compared with its FM in IL-2 so I can't really see why anyone would complain.

As for LW pilots never complaining against their own aircraft well I'm sorry that is just BS. Since day one I have said the E-4 climbs waaay too quick (I could feel it, before a test proved it) and the Fw190 A9 really shouldn't be so fast at 6000M.

Many of us just want a realistic sim where we can recreate real-world tactics and immerse ourselves in a decent sim-world. If that makes me a Luftwhiner (or whatever other Asshat name you give me!) then I wear my badge with pride.

</rant off> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 12:10 PM
Copperhead310th wrote:
there is no doubt in my
- mind that I would be living in New Berlin right now.


Havent been to wisconsin lately have you as there is a New Berlin there. And you can visit Rome Paris and a couple other places




"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 12:20 PM
Copperhead310th wrote:
- For the past 2 weeks now I have been flying all of
- the aircraft that are in this game.

- While I admit to having limited knowledge of
- actually WWII aircraft, even an idiot can see that ...

ROFL! Hilarious thread. Good going mate. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

/slush


http://dk.groups.yahoo.com/group/aktivitetsdage/files/Eurotrolls.gif

You can't handle the truth!
Col. Jessep

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 12:26 PM
he apologised i think...





---------------------------------------



under 30k?