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View Full Version : A discussion about Reflector Gunsights in BoB



AWL_Spinner
08-24-2005, 11:33 AM
Reflector Gunsights

Really I'd like to have waited until there was a BoB forum up and running before posting this, but as we've just had a load of BoB updates posted in here, one of which (the movie) features a Spitfire gunsight I'll go ahead and post anyways.

Please note the image below.

http://www.iainmccarthy.com/images/gunsights.jpg

1. IL2 Era Gunsight (Spitfire)
2. Screen Grab from the film "The Battle Of Britain" (Spitfire or Hurricane)
3. PF Era Gunsight (Zero, I think)

Note I'm not whining here - I'm after people's opinions on the gunsight itself. Now I don't profess to claim that the film "The Battle Of Britain" is an infallible source but it's one of the few that actually uses genuine era aircraft and genuine aerial camera work throughout so I've no reason to doubt it. Unfortunately despite many searches Google has drawn a blank for other images of *lit* era gunsights - if anyone has any please post!

The point of all this is to suggest that the gunsights as we are presented in the IL2 series are quite far removed from what a primitive bright bulb shining up through a reflective glass might actually look like to the eye. To my uneducated mind (and I'm here to be corrected) it looks far too neat; far too dim; far too much like a jetfighter HUD.

If Image 2 is a genuine RAF lit gunsight (it certainly moves like one in the film) in a Spit or Hurricane I think it would be worth some research when producing BoB to replicate the effect of a bright light through glass, that is plenty of flare, un-even presentation and glints dependant on view aspect (even something that changes in-game dependent on your POV) and other artefacts. I see that some of the sights in PF (Image 3) are already moving somewhat down that route although the placeholder in the Spitfire movie (if such it is) looks just like Image 1.

I don't think this is a retentive "that bolt is a quarter inch too small" argument as the gunsight is a pretty important aspect of a combat simulator and one you spend a lot of time looking through.

If it actually was like Image 2 it's no surprise that pilots only turned them on when about to engage in combat as it would be wearing on the eye to have it on all the time (in addition to concerns over bulb wear). Please can we also turn them on and off in BoB!

Again, my sources are limited and I'm awaiting enlightenment (no pun intended) from the WWII heads on here. The Spitfire cockpit seen in that movie Oleg kindly posted is absolutely beautiful and it's only right it should be blessed with a gunsight to match!

Anyone have anything to comment?

I'm off to see if there any more illuminating (ho ho, pun intended) scenes in Dark Blue World as that also uses some period BoB footage.

Thanks!

starfighter1
08-24-2005, 11:47 AM
hi,
I guess they work hard on best view and more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
notice a short part of the gunsight at MKI
cockpit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/SpitfireMKI.mpg

Abbuzze
08-24-2005, 01:56 PM
As you can dim the light, they are to bright in the movie I think.

Here is a movie I made, it´s a german gunsight, but the see the brightness in PF is not that wrong.
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/zip/Revi.zip
(mouse - right click - save target as)

And you also seee that the crosshair is moving much more if you move your had than it is modelled at the moment in FB!

I hope there will be a realistic Head/Crosshairmovement then it would make real sense to push negative G-forces and haning in the belts!

Grue_
08-24-2005, 02:05 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/flyingscampi/Open-Revi-2.jpg

starfighter1
08-24-2005, 02:19 PM
hi,
a flexible setting at height of pilots view by adjusting pilots seat and the gunsight view /revi/gyroscope are also very important features, beside flexible head movements http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm very interest to use Track IR6dof together with such features http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif




Originally posted by Abbuzze:
As you can dim the light, they are to bright in the movie I think.

Here is a movie I made, it´s a german gunsight, but the see the brightness in PF is not that wrong.
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/zip/Revi.zip
(mouse - right click - save target as)

And you also seee that the crosshair is moving much more if you move your had than it is modelled at the moment in FB!

I hope there will be a realistic Head/Crosshairmovement then it would make real sense to push negative G-forces and haning in the belts!

AWL_Spinner
08-24-2005, 02:55 PM
Wow, Grue_, there's going to be a lot of very impressed people in here if that's your garage! Nice shot of a Revi! (and it looks very bright as one would expect)

Abbuzze - thanks for the link but I can't get the download to work, it seems to download a corrupt or invalid zip (using right-click, save-as). Would be very interested to watch!

Abbuzze
08-24-2005, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:


Abbuzze - thanks for the link but I can't get the download to work, it seems to download a corrupt or invalid zip (using right-click, save-as). Would be very interested to watch!

Hmm it´s working for me :/ strange. Maybe (save target as) and don´t use the left mousebutton. This will not work.

AWL_Spinner
08-24-2005, 04:10 PM
Wierd - it won't work in Firefox for me yet I've just tried it in Internet Explorer and it works fine. First time I've encountered that!

Nice movie and you're right - that looks much more like the Revi in PF (apart from the movement as you've suggested, way way more dependent on head position). I'd still be happier with some more glass effects though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyone got a working RAF sight?

Willey
08-24-2005, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
The Spitfire cockpit seen in that movie Oleg kindly posted is absolutely beautiful and it's only right it should be blessed with a gunsight to match!

Where did he post that? Haven't seen him doing so, and I can't find the post... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Just thought the video got leaked by someone, but now I read that Oleg himself postet it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

AWL_Spinner
08-25-2005, 01:57 AM
Willey - it's in one of Oleg's posts in the top pinned thread on this forum, "The life of the whole IL2 series" or something - on about page 12 or 13. There's loads of news from Oleg on development and future plans in there.

It's also linked directly in Starfighter1's post above.

Willey
08-25-2005, 05:29 AM
Ah thanks... haven't seen all pages of that thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
And I wouldn't expect BoB stuff in there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

nakamura_kenji
08-25-2005, 05:42 AM
gunsight 3 is from ki-61 most favorite gunsight game ^_^

LeLv44_Mangrove
08-25-2005, 08:38 AM
Revi at Hallinportti Aviation museum in Finland

http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/scan/revi/

starfighter1
08-25-2005, 11:43 AM
hi,
remember that some rebuilder in South African War Museum were starting in 04 to rebuild one in a BF-109 and FW-190 by full function on correct height of view by pilots combat view.
He got all the plans and was searching some parts in the restauration market

Hope to get infos and pics soon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Originally posted by LeLv44_Mangrove:
Revi at Hallinportti Aviation museum in Finland

http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/scan/revi/

starfighter1
08-25-2005, 11:45 AM
hi,
here the new website
http://www.triplane.net/


Originally posted by starfighter1:
hi,
remember that some rebuilder in South African War Museum were starting in 04 to rebuild one in a BF-109 and FW-190 by full function on correct height of view by pilots combat view.
He got all the plans and was searching some parts in the restauration market

Hope to get infos and pics soon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeLv44_Mangrove:
Revi at Hallinportti Aviation museum in Finland

http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/scan/revi/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sauron6
08-25-2005, 12:24 PM
The sights themselves (in terms of focus) are good as they are in the game. The distortion is a result of the camera used in the movie, they look crisp and clear to the (real) human eye.

AWL_Spinner
09-13-2005, 07:24 AM
Ok, a bump here for the other bit of my original post.

Please can we have the ability to turn gunsights on and off in BoB?

I know a lot of people just fly around in dogfight servers and thus are in the action for the whole of their PF experience, but in the real world the sights were off for a lot of the time, only activated when in or near action.

Primary reasons including bulb/mechanism wear and removing the visual distraction from scanning the sky ahead.

Can't imagine many pilots took off with their sights activated, for instance, as happens for every single PF takeoff.

Not a big thing for most, I'm sure, but one for the immersion geeks like myself. Pretty please.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stubby
09-13-2005, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
Please can we have the ability to turn gunsights on and off in BoB?
"
"
Not a big thing for most, I'm sure, but one for the immersion geeks like myself. Pretty please.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I second that motion. If the goal is authenticity and immersion, then something as simple as allowing a gunsite to be toggled off and on is a must. I also would hope they would look at the pictures you posted. The one from the movie looks to be the best representation. But why guess. I'm sure 1C will head over to England and travel to Duxford for their research. Somewhere on that sacred ground lies a fully function gunsite used in Mk1.

jocko417
09-13-2005, 05:43 PM
I agree. If we currently have the ability to select tinted glass (how many of us EVER use that feature?) then it should be ludicrous not to have the ability to switch the sight on and off.

LEBillfish
09-13-2005, 07:37 PM
Normally on many & I'd assume most brightness could be controlled........The point to compete with the sunlight/darkness and to suit the individual....Just like with a cars dash lights.

Personally it is now set where I would set it if controlable. Not to bright, yet not to dim...Too bright would blind you like Grue_'s above...Too dim and you have to strain.

Looks good now to me though many of the reticals especially on scope type sights are incorrect.

p.s. B29 one below on full bright...though lamp could be wrong not sure.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/IL2/X1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/IL2/X2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/IL2/X3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/IL2/X4.jpg

luke97
09-14-2005, 06:41 AM
WOW! Im very interested in this thread!.
Just two thoughts:
I think that the RAF MkII gunsight reticle of the first post (center image) is incorrect. Should be bigger, as seen on "Dark Blue World".
http://www.medtelecom.net/luke97/gs1.jpg
http://www.medtelecom.net/luke97/gs2.jpg
In fact, the only adjustable part of that RAF sights were the two horizontal bars, for measuring distance. On the movie, is adjusted for far distance, and its wrong, but is a minor error. I think they had not a brightness control so in BOB should not be that option.

The worst part of Shockwaves BoB is precisely the gunsight reticles. They are very small and unrealistic. I hope they solve this.

S!

albundy777
09-21-2005, 04:48 AM
I just wish the dimmer actually worked, and helped with aiming when the sun is in front of you.

TooCool_12f
09-22-2005, 11:28 AM
the main problem with photographs is that they're overexposed most of the time...


you look through a piece of glass which reflects a light of a bulb... if your camera exposes correctly the light of the reticle, you have a dark background (as in later pics by LEBillfish), if your camera has the background exposed correctly (as in movies or photo by Grue_ , you get a very exposed reticle (meaning, much too bright, compared to what your eye will see in reality)