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slimepunk
08-28-2010, 11:31 PM
I read that he was born to a Christian mother and Muslim father. I couldn't tell what religion he followed in the game... anyone know?

Stormpen
08-28-2010, 11:39 PM
Historically, the Assassins were Nizari Ismailis.
So Altair must have been one too.
In the beginning, anyway.

luxor_mag
08-28-2010, 11:48 PM
I don't know history of real assassins. But I think, Altair just follows the credo and do whatever his master say.

Xanatos2007
08-29-2010, 01:40 AM
According to earlier information from AC1 pre-release Altair is "spiritual", but the historic Hashshashin were Nizari Ismaili as Stormpen said. Their belief structure is rather interesting.

notafanboy
08-29-2010, 03:51 AM
altair was an atheist judging from what he said and did

BK-110
08-29-2010, 04:02 AM
Judging from the Codex pages, he was likely a religious skeptic. At least later in his life.

TG-Raylock
08-29-2010, 07:11 AM
His religion was Al Mualim because whatever that man said he'd do. He'd jump off a building for him...oh wait.

hewkii9
08-29-2010, 08:04 AM
Altair was atheist.

If you want more info on the historical Hashashins, read Alamut by Vladimir Bartol. Good book [and the inspiration for AC1]

JonnyQuickShot
08-29-2010, 08:29 AM
The Hashashins were literally, people who did hashish, and then killed people. Which explains all the blue smoke and stuff. So Altair is in the religion of getting high, and killing people.

PhiIs1618033
08-29-2010, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by JonnyQuickShot:
The Hashashins were literally, people who did hashish, and then killed people. Which explains all the blue smoke and stuff. So Altair is in the religion of getting high, and killing people.
You are badly misinformed. The Hashshashin were Nizari Ismailis, as others have pointed out.

JonnyQuickShot
08-29-2010, 09:43 AM
Erm... Has nobody heard the story of The Old Man? That's what he did to brainwash his Assassins. Was with Hashish. I never said they were not Nizari Ismailis. I just was saying where the Hashshashin came from.
Therefore, I am well informed, you are not....

"Used figuratively, the term hashish connoted meanings such as “outcast” or “rabble”. Taken literally however, various orientalist scholars came to view the Nizaris as having consumed this substance before carrying political killings."

Xanatos2007
08-29-2010, 09:49 AM
Those were stories invented by Marco Polo and enemies of the Hashshashin. The term 'Hashshashin' literally means 'Followers of Hassan [ibn Sabbah]", who were strongly opposed to the use of drugs & alcohol.

JonnyQuickShot
08-29-2010, 09:52 AM
I did research this rather thoroughly. And by Marco Polo? These were stories from the religion they followed.....

EDIT: Personally, the only way I would ever assassinate Conrad, was if I was high... Just saying.

PhiIs1618033
08-29-2010, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by JonnyQuickShot:
I did research this rather thoroughly. And by Marco Polo? These were stories from the religion they followed.....

EDIT: Personally, the only way I would ever assassinate Conrad, was if I was high... Just saying.
Just reading the Wikipedia article isn't enough. Also, there are a lot of tales surrounding the Old Man of the mountain.

SupremeCaptain
08-29-2010, 10:04 AM
I just leave it that he is spiritual.

Sithis23
08-29-2010, 10:33 AM
I think he's atheist.
Cuz when Richard tells him God is on his side, Altair says something like "I couldnt care less about your god".

Xanatos2007
08-29-2010, 10:39 AM
No, he said "God had nothing to do with it, I was the better fighter". He didn't say "God doesn't exist you pillock."

PlagueDoctor357
08-29-2010, 04:40 PM
But he does say things like Lest they choose these phantoms.

As in he doesn't believe in them and thinks they aren't real.

EmperorxZurg
08-29-2010, 07:07 PM
well there's also the ideas of different Gods. Like some religions believe the "Christian God" does not exist and others believing the "Hindu God" does not exist etc;

if he did say anything like that he could have just been saying it about that religion's God. doesn't mean he's atheist

phil.llllll
08-29-2010, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
well there's also the ideas of different Gods. Like some religions believe the "Christian God" does not exist and others believing the "Hindu God" does not exist etc;

if he did say anything like that he could have just been saying it about that religion's God. doesn't mean he's atheist

I think the games have quite clearly painted a picture of him as someone who doesn't believe in any sort of gods.

EmperorxZurg
08-29-2010, 08:41 PM
I don't really think so... he seems spiritual, maybe not religious but maybe agnostic. Knowing some kind of God exists but thinks no one has it right yet :/

Stormpen
08-29-2010, 08:51 PM
According to the PoE theory, the one's who came before were the gods of the early pagan beliefs, Eg: Minerva, so it's natural that Altair seems to be skeptical about gods.

phil.llllll
08-29-2010, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
I don't really think so... he seems spiritual, maybe not religious but maybe agnostic. Knowing some kind of God exists but thinks no one has it right yet :/

In what way did he seem spritual? Looking at both games he seemed quite against spirituality, and claims of the supernatural (e.g. always searching deeper for answers instead of claiming divine intervention; for instance, his skill was the reason for his victory against Robert and his men, not God). And what Stormpen said is true as well, which effectively dismisses all claims of Gods or the supernatural in the AC world.

Assassin_M
08-29-2010, 10:09 PM
I think the game clearly states his Religous Regime, he is either a Christian or a Muslim he cant be any other because at that time period in the holy land those were the 2 main religions, But Apparently he is none of the 2 aforementioned because when he kills Talal, A Supposed Muslim, he tells him "Beg forgiveness from your God" the term "YOUR" seems to point out his disbelief in the Muslim God as the term Racially points God to Muslims, which he doesnt believe in.
As for the Christian God, the Point was mentioned before, which when he said that God had nothing to do with his Victory, this also seems to notify that he believed in the Existence of some sort of Deity at the time but never really thought of it as responsible for Destinies.
After his exposure to the Piece of Eden however this slightly changed he began to dig deeper within the Artifact`s Knowledges and this exposed him to the Fact that God doesnt Exist in any way, Evident by his notes in the Codex,
so this makes Altair a Semi Atheist in AC I and a fully fledged Atheist In AC II

Adam151184
08-30-2010, 03:47 PM
The assassins order in AC1 do believe in god but as far as I can tell it is neither Christianity, Islam or Jewish. Most reasons have been mentioned before but also there are no churches, mosques or synagogues in Masyaf. The main reason I believe this is during Robert de Sable attack on Masyaf, when you have to perform your first leap on faith in order to set off the trap, Al Mualim speaks of how the assassins "Welcome death and the rewards it brings" and then commands you to "Go to god".

souNdwAve89
08-31-2010, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
I think the game clearly states his Religous Regime, he is either a Christian or a Muslim he cant be any other because at that time period in the holy land those were the 2 main religions, But Apparently he is none of the 2 aforementioned because when he kills Talal, A Supposed Muslim, he tells him "Beg forgiveness from your God" the term "YOUR" seems to point out his disbelief in the Muslim God as the term Racially points God to Muslims, which he doesnt believe in.
As for the Christian God, the Point was mentioned before, which when he said that God had nothing to do with his Victory, this also seems to notify that he believed in the Existence of some sort of Deity at the time but never really thought of it as responsible for Destinies.
After his exposure to the Piece of Eden however this slightly changed he began to dig deeper within the Artifact`s Knowledges and this exposed him to the Fact that God doesnt Exist in any way, Evident by his notes in the Codex,
so this makes Altair a Semi Atheist in AC I and a fully fledged Atheist In AC II

I agree with this since this is what my interpretation is.

godsmack_darius
08-31-2010, 01:30 PM
SPOILERS!!!


According to the codex, He was studying the pagen religions, along with many others, eventually, He turned Spiritual instead of religious. He talks alot about Conciousness, and how everyone is part of one big conciousness experiancing itself in trillions of ways (Me, you, that dude over there, EVERYONE, and possibly everything)

FilipinoNinja67
08-31-2010, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by JonnyQuickShot:
I did research this rather thoroughly. And by Marco Polo? These were stories from the religion they followed.....

EDIT: Personally, the only way I would ever assassinate Conrad, was if I was high... Just saying.

Well im pretty sure that Wikipedia is not a rekliable source....

gsosolid
08-31-2010, 07:28 PM
As stated before, in The Holy Land, Christianity and Islam were the ONLY religions. Maybe there were a few atheist or agnostics but they kept it to themselves and practised the religions they claimed to be nontheless to not be named outcasts, and maybe even murdered. That doesn't mean there WAS any atheists, just that little possibility the existence of god may have been in question in someone's mind.

Altair was probably a Muslim, well that's what I always assumed. He must have changed his mind upon encountering the Apple of Eden, which then turned him into an agnostic. Possibly even atheist.

masterfenix2009
08-31-2010, 10:56 PM
As stated in codex 30: he did not believe in any god or religon.

DeafAtheist
09-01-2010, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by assassino151:
As stated in codex 30: he did not believe in any god or religon.

He didn't straight out say that, basically he said he didn't believe in any afterlife. Which IS an atheistic belief. Here's part of the text from Codex XXX


"Soon I shall pass from this world. It is my time. All the hours of the day are now colored by the thoughts and fears borne of this realization. I know that the elements of my body will return to the Earth. But what of my consciousness? My identity? That is to say - what of ME? I suspect it will end. That there is no next world. Nor a return to this one. It will simply be done. Forever.
Our lives are so brief and unimportant. The cosmos cares nothing for us. For what we've done; Had we wrought evil instead of good. Had I chosen to abuse the Apple instead of seal it away. None of it would have mattered. There is no counting. No reckoning. No final judgement. There is simply silence. And darkness. Utter and absolute."

This here is more specific about non-belief in gods from Codex XX


I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient - and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them - I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told.

MerratiLaAltair
09-02-2010, 04:02 AM
Assassins M is right he is either Muslim or Christian as his father was Muslim and his mother Christian...but then again he calls himself son of none....

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by MerratiLaAltair:
Assassins M is right he is either Muslim or Christian as his father was Muslim and his mother Christian...but then again he calls himself son of none....

Just because one's parents are a certain religion does not automatically make their offspring the same religion especially if born to parents of different religions. I myself was born into a Catholic family I was taken from them by social services and eventually adopted by another Catholic family. Hence I was actually baptized into the Catholic religion not once but TWICE. However I am NOT a Catholic. I'm an atheist. One is able to choose their own religion or choose none at all.

Altair is quite obviously an atheist based on Codex XX and Codex XXX as I showed above.

MerratiLaAltair
09-02-2010, 07:05 AM
Deaf Athiest...not sure why you're telling us about your personal choices, this is a game..and a discussion everyone's entitled to their own opinion, I don't recall anyone saying HE IS whatever religion, we're merely discussing...and fair enough you're Athiest and you're strongly trying to prove Altair is one...but none of can really know seeing as none of us have spoken to Altair and asked as he doesn't exist! We're all assuming. Lighten up it's just a game!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Smile and enjoy the day!

phil.llllll
09-02-2010, 08:14 AM
We're assuming based on the in game facts and the fact is that Altair is clearly portrayed as an atheist.

MerratiLaAltair
09-02-2010, 08:24 AM
Again that is your OPINION! Did you make the game? Or is Altair a real character you have met NO so lighten up!!!! If you want him to be an Atheist there he's an Atheist happy now?? Live and let live?? No..I think some people rather get super obsessive over pointless things and refuse to open their minds.

notafanboy
09-02-2010, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by MerratiLaAltair:
Again that is your OPINION! Did you make the game? Or is Altair a real character you have met NO so lighten up!!!! If you want him to be an Atheist there he's an Atheist happy now?? Live and let live?? No..I think some people rather get super obsessive over pointless things and refuse to open their minds.
he said ASSUME ! dont be religios (<spelling fail there i know) nutjob about it

MerratiLaAltair
09-02-2010, 09:48 AM
He said assume but he doesn't seem to know the meaning!! You lot are the nutjobs being all obsessive it's a GAME

notafanboy
09-02-2010, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by MerratiLaAltair:
He said assume but he doesn't seem to know the meaning!! You lot are the nutjobs being all obsessive it's a GAME
kwl down we all know its a game .
hihi the nutjob calling someoneelse a nutjob oh the ironi let him have his opinion and leave it there

ninjasownu
09-02-2010, 10:26 AM
Who created the Pieces of Eden then? Humans?

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by MerratiLaAltair:
Deaf Athiest...not sure why you're telling us about your personal choices, this is a game..and a discussion everyone's entitled to their own opinion, I don't recall anyone saying HE IS whatever religion, we're merely discussing...and fair enough you're Athiest and you're strongly trying to prove Altair is one...but none of can really know seeing as none of us have spoken to Altair and asked as he doesn't exist! We're all assuming. Lighten up it's just a game!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Smile and enjoy the day!

Dude my religious choices or lack thereof aren't important. I was using myself as an example to make a point that a person doesn't always automatically join the same religion as their parents.

But sure, you're entitled to your opinion. Can't imagine even a fictional character who writes that religion is the greatest lie ever told and he longs for the day when men turn away from gods and embrace a more rational view of the world belongs to any religion except maybe Buddhism, but Buddhists believe in reincarnation and Altair clearly does not believe in any afterlife as he stated in Codex XXX. So the only option left is atheist or at the very least agnostic.

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm merely making a rational observation based on evidence from the game.

Jesus Christ never existed either but ask and Christian, Jew, or Muslim and they will tell you that Jesus was Jewish. Just because a character in a fictional story doesn't exist in real life doesn't necessarily mean we can't tell what the character's religion was based on their statements or behavior in the story.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm making an educated guess based on evidence in the story. Nor am I taking this issue seriously. I was simply pointing out the fact that a person doesn't necessarily share the religion of their parents and Altair has made some very obviously atheistic statements in the Codex. So I have no need to "lighten up".

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by MerratiLaAltair:
Again that is your OPINION! Did you make the game? Or is Altair a real character you have met NO so lighten up!!!! If you want him to be an Atheist there he's an Atheist happy now?? Live and let live?? No..I think some people rather get super obsessive over pointless things and refuse to open their minds.

No none of us here made the game. (This is a fact because Ubisoft does not allow their employees to post in here, but they do read it), but one does not need to have made the game or spoken to Altair (or even to the game's scriptwriters) because it's quite clear based on writings that were -based on the game story -were written by Altair that are clearly atheistic beliefs and opinions leading one to clearly posit that Altair was an atheist. No one is being obsessive. We're simply pointing out facts from the game. It doesn't require an open mind because it's right there plain as day that he says he thinks religion is a lie and doesn't believe in an after life... these are atheist beliefs.

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by ninjasownu:
Who created the Pieces of Eden then? Humans?

No, Pieces of Eden is technology created by Those Who Came Before and brought to earth.

ninjasownu
09-02-2010, 02:37 PM
If you have proof of so called "gods" why not believe in them. If Altair had the apple couldnt he have asked it or created a heaven or after life?

Assassin_M
09-02-2010, 02:46 PM
Guys please lets not drift from the Main point at hand and turn this into a useless rant about RELIGIONS and lets get back on topic....
Clearly some of u do not understand my Post mentioned Previously what I meant to say is that Altair can not be something other than A Muslim, A Christian, or An Atheist Because the knowledge of any other Religion was not that common place in the Holy Land at that time "Im From Syria so I know that Much"

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by ninjasownu:
If you have proof of so called "gods" why not believe in them. If Altair had the apple couldnt he have asked it or created a heaven or after life?

The Apple doesn't work like that. It's basically a mind control device with the original intentions by Those Who Came Before to use to enslave humans and bend them to their will. It is for that reason the Templars want the Pieces of Eden in order to control humanity the same way Those Who Came Before did.

According to Altair in the Codex the Apple gave him glimpses of the future but he was unsure of whether or not they were real or if the events he saw could be changed. The Apple couldn't give a person insight into supernaturalism.

It's questionable whether or not religion itself is a deception made to seem real by Pieces of Eden or if Pieces of Eden were used to cover up the reality of the Abrahamic religions by shrouding them in mystery. This would explain why there are 3 different Abrahamic religions and not just 1 because due to the mystery surrounding them none of them are entirely sure of what is right they all assume their own beliefs are true and the others are false.

Adam and Eve are the among the first humans who rebelled against Those Who Came Before and stole The Apple which is depicted in the completed video left by Subject 16 Desmond finds hidden in the glyphs thru Ezio in the Animus.

JohnConnor2012
09-02-2010, 03:22 PM
I chased up the reference to Bartol's 'Alamut' on p.1 of this thread and the Wiki stuff about the assassins - interesting, and no reason to assume Altair is not one of this Shia (minority Moslem) sect originally.

Pretty convinced Altair would lose t/his faith after exposure to the PoE and other dramatic events towards the end of AC.

I remain to be convinced that Altair's later-life spirituality (as revealed by the Codex pages in AC2) is in any way theistic though.

EmperorxZurg
09-02-2010, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:

Jesus Christ never existed either but ask and Christian, Jew, or Muslim and they will tell you that Jesus was Jewish. Just because a character in a fictional story doesn't exist in real life doesn't necessarily mean we can't tell what the character's religion was based on their statements or behavior in the story.
obviously atheistic statements in the Codex. So I have no need to "lighten up".

*facepalm* He was real. We've recovered all the artifacts about him including the skeletal remains. What's debated is if he was the Son of God or not. The actual person Jesus of Nazareth existed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

but on actual topic, he's probably changed religions throughout the game. At first I would be saying a kind of Muslim sect, the Christian ones mostly have different rituals which he doesn't seem to be adhering to. and at the end of the game agnostic or atheist through learning about the apple and etc; etc;

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
*facepalm* He was real. We've recovered all the artifacts about him including the skeletal remains. What's debated is if he was the Son of God or not. The actual person Jesus of Nazareth existed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Not one single genuine artifact has been found that supports the existence of an historical Jesus and most certainly not any skeletal remains. Even any Christian will tell you that no skeleton would be expected to be found either because according to the bible Jesus resurrected body and all and ascended into heaven. Therefore he allegedly left no body behind to discover.

The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a fake. And I've heard of no other evidence which supports the existence of Jesus outside of religious texts. So you can facepalm all you want but it doesn't make your statements true. Perhaps sourcing some evidence that backs up your claims here would be a bit helpful. Just sayin'.

Assassin_M
09-02-2010, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
*facepalm* He was real. We've recovered all the artifacts about him including the skeletal remains. What's debated is if he was the Son of God or not. The actual person Jesus of Nazareth existed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Not one single genuine artifact has been found that supports the existence of an historical Jesus and most certainly not any skeletal remains. Even any Christian will tell you that no skeleton would be expected to be found either because according to the bible Jesus resurrected body and all and ascended into heaven. Therefore he allegedly left no body behind to discover.

The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a fake. And I've heard of no other evidence which supports the existence of Jesus outside of religious texts. So you can facepalm all you want but it doesn't make your statements true. Perhaps sourcing some evidence that backs up your claims here would be a bit helpful. Just sayin'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>r guys for REAL ????? i just asked to get back on topic and stop the religious rant PLEASE !!!!!!!!!! this Topic is very Interesting and by ur Quarrels u r lessening its Value so please lets continue debating Altair`s Religion PLEASE !!!!!!!!

LOOK HERE BEFORE U POST ANYTHING ELSE !!!!!!!!!

JohnConnor2012
09-02-2010, 06:41 PM
I don't know about the reality--if anything, finding Jesus artefacts that contradicted Scripture would undermine its veracity--but JC certainly existed in the AC universe. I recall a glyph in AC2 where he's a PoE wielder, and the crucifixion was about the Templars getting it off him (Him?).

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by JohnConnor2012:
I don't know about the reality--if anything, finding Jesus artefacts that contradicted Scripture would undermine its veracity--but JC certainly existed in the AC universe. I recall a glyph in AC2 where he's a PoE wielder, and the crucifixion was about the Templars getting it off him (Him?).

Really? I've got 1000G on AC2 (which means I got all the glyphs) and I don't remember that. I'm not claiming you're mistaken here, I just don't remember that. I'm actually replaying AC2 now to refamiliarize myself with the story before Brotherhood comes out but I was intentionally ignoring the glyphs and feathers because they're a pain in the rear and I was more interested in the main story. I'll have to go back to my completed game file and check on that.

Assassin_M
09-02-2010, 06:59 PM
omg i guess theres nothing i can do soon this will be closed

DeafAtheist
09-02-2010, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
omg i guess theres nothing i can do soon this will be closed

What's your problem? No one is debating religion anymore We're talking about religion in the game.

JohnConnor simply said he didn't know about Jesus in reality but went on to talk about how he is portrayed in AC2. He wasn't jumping into the religious debate that went on between me and a couple others earlier. Far as I know the debate in here has been dropped. I'm not discussing it anymore and apparently no one else is. We're talking about religion in the game... isn't that what the original post is about?

ninjasownu
09-02-2010, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JohnConnor2012:
I don't know about the reality--if anything, finding Jesus artefacts that contradicted Scripture would undermine its veracity--but JC certainly existed in the AC universe. I recall a glyph in AC2 where he's a PoE wielder, and the crucifixion was about the Templars getting it off him (Him?).

Really? I've got 1000G on AC2 (which means I got all the glyphs) and I don't remember that. I'm not claiming you're mistaken here, I just don't remember that. I'm actually replaying AC2 now to refamiliarize myself with the story before Brotherhood comes out but I was intentionally ignoring the glyphs and feathers because they're a pain in the rear and I was more interested in the main story. I'll have to go back to my completed game file and check on that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just got a 1000 and yes Jesus had a piece of eden and on top of the crucifix there was the templar symbol.

godsmack_darius
09-03-2010, 01:16 AM
Altair was reaching the point of enlightenment, He was not religious, but spiritual, he believed that the whole world was literally an illusion, and that everything was permitted. we were all one conciousness experiancing itself in trillions of ways.

He mentions it several times that he was studying pagen faith, so he might have gone through a phase of being pagen.

He also stated that he was studying all relgions and that they all have the same story of christ, which also lead him ot enlightenment, now it is debatable that he went mad from being scared of death knowing there was no after life, but rather nothing, or or that his conciousness would roam the universe and further. but from the last codex he write us, it looks like he almost went mad. im willing to be scorrected by the way, and this is my opinion

bloodjook
09-03-2010, 10:57 AM
altair is half muslim half christian i know becuz im arab :P but im christian fully

DeafAtheist
09-03-2010, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by godsmack_darius:
Altair was reaching the point of enlightenment, He was not religious, but spiritual, he believed that the whole world was literally an illusion, and that everything was permitted. we were all one conciousness experiancing itself in trillions of ways.

He mentions it several times that he was studying pagen faith, so he might have gone through a phase of being pagen.

He also stated that he was studying all relgions and that they all have the same story of christ, which also lead him ot enlightenment, now it is debatable that he went mad from being scared of death knowing there was no after life, but rather nothing, or or that his conciousness would roam the universe and further. but from the last codex he write us, it looks like he almost went mad. im willing to be scorrected by the way, and this is my opinion

Studying something and believing in it are 2 very different things. From reading the Codex myself it didn't appear that Altair was influenced by his study of paganism.

And what makes you think he went mad or feared death based on Codex XXX. Just because a person doesn't believe in an afterlife doesn't mean they fear death.

DeafAtheist
09-03-2010, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by bloodjook:
altair is half muslim half christian i know becuz im arab :P but im christian fully

What does being an Arab have to do with anything? Religion isn't determined by race

Black_Widow9
09-03-2010, 12:48 PM
Discussing religion is fine. That is in the Title of this thread. However if arguments occur because of it then it will be locked. Remember it is about Altair's religion not yours.
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JohnConnor2012
09-04-2010, 05:25 AM
I'm inclined to agree with DA on this one: there were a lot of Christians in Altair's bit of the Middle East before the Crusaders (or even Mohammed) arrived, as heterodox re. Christianity as Altair's Islam was to the mainstream of that faith.

jrutter
09-04-2010, 08:21 AM
Altair is likely either a deist or secular humanist. A secular humanist is an atheist by default, as secular means without god. "god has nothing to do with it" is not a comment to be made regarding a god with a great plan who spends eternity manipulating is subjects, saving this person, condemning this person, giving/taking things from people. Altair shifts the blame of human actions back to human beings. Of course, he could be an existentialist. Along the lines of Dostoevsky and Kierkegaard rather than Nietzsche or Sartre.
Being an atheist is only a bad thing because we have to put up with judgmental religious nuts. Other than that, it is the default religion of every person born. "All thinking men are atheists." - Earnest Hemingway. This is true because thinking is a process...an active state of mind. Belief is a passive state of mind where you merely accept what you're told. faith - complete trust.
The fact that Altair is an agent against corruption and tyranny gives him a democratic nature. He could have easily been a Zoro type politician in either the American or French revolutions and a proponent of the age of enlightenment along side freethinkers such as Thomas Paine or Voltaire ("I may not agree with what you have to say, but i'll fight to the death for your right to say it." - Voltaire.)
My guess is secular humanist.

Nihil est verum; omne licet.
Ex una infinitate mutante perpetue; conspectus infinitos.

godsmack_darius
09-04-2010, 10:55 AM
Very nice post my friend, and welcome to the forums


quote:
Originally posted by godsmack_darius:
Altair was reaching the point of enlightenment, He was not religious, but spiritual, he believed that the whole world was literally an illusion, and that everything was permitted. we were all one conciousness experiancing itself in trillions of ways.

He mentions it several times that he was studying pagen faith, so he might have gone through a phase of being pagen.

He also stated that he was studying all relgions and that they all have the same story of christ, which also lead him ot enlightenment, now it is debatable that he went mad from being scared of death knowing there was no after life, but rather nothing, or or that his conciousness would roam the universe and further. but from the last codex he write us, it looks like he almost went mad. im willing to be scorrected by the way, and this is my opinion


Studying something and believing in it are 2 very different things. From reading the Codex myself it didn't appear that Altair was influenced by his study of paganism.

And what makes you think he went mad or feared death based on Codex XXX. Just because a person doesn't believe in an afterlife doesn't mean they fear death.


I never said he was pagen, im just saying he studied pagen religions and many others and found out they are all the same. and back then people were very religious,and believed in god as much as we believe in gravity. (figure of speech)

And im just expressing my opinion that he could have gone mad...Like when he said "What is the harm of looking at it one last time" or something sounded like he was losing it, maybe the Piece of Eden did this to him, but I dont no, Its just my theory, I could be wrong, but there could be no harm in expressing it, thats what the fourms are for http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And he wasnt scared of death, he was scared of what became after it. plus he was finding ways to postpone it and/or avoid it.

Remember Sibrand? The paranoid templar shooting Arrows of the boat, perfect example.

DeafAtheist
09-07-2010, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by deus_necator:
Altair is likely either a deist or secular humanist.

I don't see Altair as a Humanist... just an atheist. A Humanist would have too much respect for life to be a professional assassin even if the assassinations being carried out were for the greater good.

N3R0z
06-09-2011, 10:58 PM
Altair's real religion is Ismailism, as mentioned before, but in the game they don't really show the religious side of him so it's hard to tell. By the way, I'm an Ismaili myself and have Altair's blood flowing in me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif... hahaha...
Never mind that tho.. The story goes like this: Ismailis are a branch of Islam, who believe that Muhammad's cousin, Ali, is their "Imam" (Spiritual Leader).
The Ismailis were peaceful people and had a strong army. They were once the strongest branch of Islam since they controlled Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and even some of Europe. They actally let the Christians and Jews practice their religions peacefully, and that angered the Sunni Muslims (Another Branch of Islam). We were the for a long time until we were betrayed by some of the kings.. blah blah blah... Ismailis were defeated by the Sunnis and we split up... so Hassan-i-Sabbah (not an Imam but general of the Ismailis) wanted to protect his religion and his Imam so he went to Persia where he found a new HQ for Ismailis called Alamut (meaning Eagles Nest, that's where you get the whole flying thing from and Altair's name). The Sunnis wanted to make sure their enemies were killed so they beheaded and burned alived a lot of Ismailis and were coming for the Imam. Hassan-i-Sabbah didn't know how to fight the Sunnis since they were way bigger than them, so instead of fighting them one on one, he made a group called Fidais (meaning sacrificers, this is what they were actually called, the world Hashashin was given to them by Marco Polo i believe). He trained these Fidais to fight and stuff like that... But there was a catch... these guys couldn't get married or have any relationships (that's why you don't see Altair with a, I'll get into Ezio's story later). This was because that'd interfere with their missions. So Hassan-i-Sabbah would send the Fidais (Assassins) to kill sunni leaders.. basically any threat to Ismailism... (some were given warnings, most popular ones being knives on their pillows)... Some were killed right away... The name Hashashin either means "the followes of Hassan" or the users of Hashish (Cannibis - poisonous)... and Hashish wasn't used to get high, but rather to poison themselves and die. If they failed a mission and were caught, they'd quickly eat this drug and commit suicide so they wouldn't be tortured and their Imam and religion would be safe.
Unfortunately, Genghis Khan decided to take over the world... he conquered Persia except for Alamut, the Assassin Stronghold, but after a lot of fighting, the assassins were defeated.. Hassan and his followers went over to Khan's place to befriend him but he intended to assassinate his as soon as he saw him. but khan knew him too well... anyone would, they were called assassins for a reason, lol... so he took them outside and killed them all one by one... the assassins... the assassins in Syria were defeated by their government and were used to kill ppl.. they completely lost their meaning and that's where Ezio comes in... Assassins were later on used by a lot of countries to gain advantage over the others so... the syrian and persian assassins came to italy for example, had sexy time with some italian and changed their names... and thats why Ezio's named is Ezio and not something Arabic... Hopefully that helped guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

N3R0z
06-09-2011, 11:26 PM
And by the way, the Ismailis are not dead... they are still alive (me)... we still follow an Imam and one day we'll come in power again :P

phil.llllll
06-10-2011, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by N3R0z:
Altair's real religion is Ismailism,

Altaïr has no religion. The real life assassins were a nizari ismaili sect but they took all mention of that out of the game - if it ever was there in the first place.

DualFace
06-10-2011, 12:59 AM
This thread needs to be closed. It has been answered several times already.

Altair had no religion. He is depicted as athiest and/or agnostic.

THE END.

EmperorxZurg
06-10-2011, 09:54 AM
Although I do agree with the fact that this zombie thread needs to be closed, I'm afraid you have the wrong idea about Altair. He came from a muslim father and Christian mother. (the muslim was ismaili, hence the more tolerant towards the mother's religion and willing to marry.) Naturally, with two different religions of his upbringing, he never grew up worshipping one. Altair couldn't be Atheist though, for we saw him pray in the first game. He also denied King Arthur's claim that God sent him here. Hence eliminating devout Christian. From what I've seen in the game, he's a non devout Muslim ismaili. but again, it sort of doesn't matter. I ain't paying attention to the old games until AC:R comes out so I can analyze them both and cross reference the connections between Ezio and Altair, since the game emphasizes their bond GREATLY.

Syler99
06-10-2011, 10:18 AM
I would based off of speech and manners peg Altair as being Muslim even though it's not said specifically. I think his greating line would be correct with that culture.

Now for Ezio I peg him as being either Catholic or Protestant I know they're different but I also know both of these existed heavily at the time. Though like his ancestor his religion is not mentioned and really Ezio doesn't exactly act well in line like those of his faith should either.

I think Desmond doesn't have one not to say he's atheist he just doesn't have one.

phil.llllll
06-10-2011, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
Altair couldn't be Atheist though, for we saw him pray in the first game.

No we didn't. He is, in fact, a non believer. This is apparent in his attitude towards the immaterial, and, if that wasn't obvious enough, his writings in the codex in AC2.


Originally posted by DualFace:
This thread needs to be closed. It has been answered several times already.

Altair had no religion. He is depicted as athiest and/or agnostic.

THE END.

This.

RzaRecta357
06-10-2011, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by phil.llllll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
Altair couldn't be Atheist though, for we saw him pray in the first game.

No we didn't. He is, in fact, a non believer. This is apparent in his attitude towards the immaterial, and, if that wasn't obvious enough, his writings in the codex in AC2.


Originally posted by DualFace:
This thread needs to be closed. It has been answered several times already.

Altair had no religion. He is depicted as athiest and/or agnostic.

THE END.

This. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

THIS


No kidding. You guy's are very smart i'll give you all that. But you need surround sound or something because he CLEARLY doesn't believe in a god.

Go play the game again. Listen to the way he does things. He is VERY cool about this. One of the reasons I truly liked him actually.

His chat with Richard at the end is the coolest moment in video games EVER.

Rakudaton
06-10-2011, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil.llllll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
Altair couldn't be Atheist though, for we saw him pray in the first game.

No we didn't. He is, in fact, a non believer. This is apparent in his attitude towards the immaterial, and, if that wasn't obvious enough, his writings in the codex in AC2.


Originally posted by DualFace:
This thread needs to be closed. It has been answered several times already.

Altair had no religion. He is depicted as athiest and/or agnostic.

THE END.

This. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

THIS


No kidding. You guy's are very smart i'll give you all that. But you need surround sound or something because he CLEARLY doesn't believe in a god.

Go play the game again. Listen to the way he does things. He is VERY cool about this. One of the reasons I truly liked him actually.

His chat with Richard at the end is the coolest moment in video games EVER. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Richard: It seems God favours your blade, assassin.
Altair: "god" had nothing to do with it; I was the better fighter.

Boom!

Or something like that...


But yeah. Altair is consistently portrayed as an atheist. If we're being pedantic, he's probably what's called a "weak" atheist, or "agnostic atheist". This is speculation though, as he never explicitly says that there are no gods -- he just seems to act on the assumption that there are none. Then again, I might just be saying that because I'm an agnostic atheist myself, and want to claim one of the most badass fictional people of all time as one of our own...

EmperorxZurg
06-10-2011, 03:42 PM
guys, we're ll one post from each other. No need to chain quote.

I remember him praying at some point, but seeing as the last time I played the game was last year, I'll have to check.

Rakudaton, quoting something and thinking it's "something like that" might not be the best way to say it's fail proof and worth a boom XD

but seriously. necromorph thread be here. I say if we're really into this we start another thread after Revelations. It might show some insight on Altair.

Chamboozer
06-10-2011, 03:59 PM
Assassin's Creed I was created before anyone at Ubisoft expected it to become famous. I doubt they put any thought at all into how Altair's dialogue would reflect on his potential religious beliefs. The way I see it, they gave him a Muslim father and Christian mother solely for the purpose of making it ambiguous. He may be Muslim, he may be Christian, he may be neither. We aren't meant to know, and any 'analysis' of his actions and speech in AC1 is irrelevant because Ubisoft at the time did not expect anyone to read this deeply into it.

albertwesker22
06-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Chamboozer:
Assassin's Creed I was created before anyone at Ubisoft expected it to become famous. I doubt they put any thought at all into how Altair's dialogue would reflect on his potential religious beliefs. The way I see it, they gave him a Muslim father and Christian mother solely for the purpose of making it ambiguous. He may be Muslim, he may be Christian, he may be neither. We aren't meant to know, and any 'analysis' of his actions and speech in AC1 is irrelevant because Ubisoft at the time did not expect anyone to read this deeply into it.

He is neither Muslim nor Christian. He says that the Judeo-Christian belief is surely the greatest lie ever told.

Not to mention AC 1 highly suggests he is Agnostic at the very least.

EmperorxZurg
06-10-2011, 04:13 PM
just because they didn't know it was famous didnt mean they spent no time on deep thought of it. even back before the game came out, the devs were saying they wanted this to be an extremely in depth game. Check the forum back on the first page, back in 07. Just because it isn't famous doesn't mean they don't work hard on it. In most cases, it's the opposite.

EDIT: I'd like the quote where he said that albertwesker...

albertwesker22
06-10-2011, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468: EDIT: I'd like the quote where he said that albertwesker...

It was written in the codex in AC 2.

Codex page 20:

I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this more recent obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary moral rules...
The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. The tides ebb and flow. Grass grows, withers, dies, and then in time, emerges from the ground once more. The air turns warm then cools and back again. Some hidden energy keeps us fitted to the ground and pulls us back when we attempt to leave it.
Each of these movements was represented before by a god or goddess. Each force given face, but recognized as something distinct and powerful. Which is not to say there were not connections between these forces – a pantheon of individual spirits – of rules. Invisible hands guiding the progress of the world around us.
And so here there was an attempt to categorize, study, explain, and understand the way things work – even if it was flawed. But no more. Now we are asked to succumb to a far more simplified explanation. How naive to believe there might be a single answer to every question. Every mystery. That there exists a lone divine light which rules over all. They say it is a light that brings truth and love. I say it is a light that blinds us – and forces us to stumble about in ignorance.
I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient – and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them – I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told.

phil.llllll
06-10-2011, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Chamboozer:
I doubt they put any thought at all into how Altair's dialogue would reflect on his potential religious beliefs.

They apparently did considering several speeches spell it out quite clearly.

Again:


Originally posted by DualFace:
This thread needs to be closed. It has been answered several times already.

Altair had no religion. He is depicted as athiest and/or agnostic.

THE END.

EmperorxZurg
06-10-2011, 04:36 PM
I fail to find where he mentioned Christianity. He only said religion was a lie.

Also, faith could change over time. How old was Altair when he wrote this? Older than Revelations Ezio? XD

oh well, Imma stop posting here now. I'll open a new thread once I've seen revelations

DeafAtheist
06-10-2011, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
I fail to find where he mentioned Christianity. He only said religion was a lie.

Christianity IS a religion.

albertwesker22
06-10-2011, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
I fail to find where he mentioned Christianity. He only said religion was a lie.

Also, faith could change over time. How old was Altair when he wrote this? Older than Revelations Ezio? XD

oh well, Imma stop posting here now. I'll open a new thread once I've seen revelations

Are you a fool? "These new religions" He could only be reffering to Islam and Christianity.

EmperorxZurg
06-10-2011, 04:57 PM
I know Christianity is a religion Deaf, but earlier, Albert said that Altair said "CHRISTIANITY" was a lie. not just religion. That's what I was talking about. Altair never attacked one religion like that.

RzaRecta357
06-10-2011, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
I know Christianity is a religion Deaf, but earlier, Albert said that Altair said "CHRISTIANITY" was a lie. not just religion. That's what I was talking about. Altair never attacked one religion like that.

Well, now you're just nitpicking to keep the thread alive or something.

Also, as a person who has played AC1 like 6 times..I can tell you he NEVER prayed in that game.

Maybe you think you saw it...But the closest you'll get is holding the X or A button to walk like a monk.

EmperorxZurg
06-10-2011, 05:17 PM
not really nitpicking, just was curious about CHRISTIANITY being a lie. I guess a personal bias.

Altair18778
06-11-2011, 09:00 AM
Well I pretty sure that the Actual Assassins were Niziri Ismalli His name is sort of Muslim. His family is Christian and Muslim I think but I actually think that Altair actually chose not to follow one, but live by his own rules in the creed. But technically hes a Christian Muslim.

N3R0z
06-11-2011, 10:57 AM
first of all, theres no such thing as christian muslim... especially at that time... If Altair were anything he'd be Ismaili because at that time and even now... in the middle east children take the father's religion as theirs.. but i guess Ubisoft didn't want this to be a religious game cause they didn't think they'd sell as much

Assassin_M
06-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Altair follows the one and only ............. BUDDHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, LOCK LOCK BEFORE SOMEONE ANSWERS BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!

N3R0z
06-12-2011, 04:31 PM
too late :P
If Ubisoft made this game more accurate, Altair would be more religious (Ismaili) but they're not so he's an athiest.

Assassin_M
06-12-2011, 04:35 PM
noooooooooooooooo go back to being dead