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View Full Version : Realistic gunnery...is it real ?



XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 02:35 PM
Hi Guys

As i started to fly with the old Il2 and then FB i had my gunnery settings in "NO REAL", i read somewhere that my guns should be doing triple damage.

As my gunnery skill improved i tried several times to start a Campaign with Real Gunnery setting enabled, but i was always frustrated as i could take down barely one plane per mission.

Last night i just decided to quit this nonsense, flying a Bf109G2 a emptied my ammo tryng to Exterminate a Finnish Hurricane. I'm not talking here of firing my guns at 500 meters with a "just in case" tactics, i followed that plane at 150-200 meters trying to take down his engine first (shooting him from below), then tried some deflection shooting, then the wing roots and nothing happened, even with the nose cannon and machine guns firing together i could barely see some scratches on the fuselage, the wings where intact.

Is this a Bug occurrying only in the Hurri, was it fixed with any of the patches ? As i have flown more than 400 missions i can see that my gunnery skill is pretty acceptable (i even tried to shoot him down with time compression set to 1/4 ) and that "realistic gunnery" setting is not REAL.

Any insights on this ?


Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Closehotencounters.jpg


"Oops...Looks that the Heating System and WEP controls are mixed !! ": Last radio message heard from polkovnik Lavotchkin. Any coincidence between this event and recent patches applied by russian mechanics to some planes are merely speculative.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 02:35 PM
Hi Guys

As i started to fly with the old Il2 and then FB i had my gunnery settings in "NO REAL", i read somewhere that my guns should be doing triple damage.

As my gunnery skill improved i tried several times to start a Campaign with Real Gunnery setting enabled, but i was always frustrated as i could take down barely one plane per mission.

Last night i just decided to quit this nonsense, flying a Bf109G2 a emptied my ammo tryng to Exterminate a Finnish Hurricane. I'm not talking here of firing my guns at 500 meters with a "just in case" tactics, i followed that plane at 150-200 meters trying to take down his engine first (shooting him from below), then tried some deflection shooting, then the wing roots and nothing happened, even with the nose cannon and machine guns firing together i could barely see some scratches on the fuselage, the wings where intact.

Is this a Bug occurrying only in the Hurri, was it fixed with any of the patches ? As i have flown more than 400 missions i can see that my gunnery skill is pretty acceptable (i even tried to shoot him down with time compression set to 1/4 ) and that "realistic gunnery" setting is not REAL.

Any insights on this ?


Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Closehotencounters.jpg


"Oops...Looks that the Heating System and WEP controls are mixed !! ": Last radio message heard from polkovnik Lavotchkin. Any coincidence between this event and recent patches applied by russian mechanics to some planes are merely speculative.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 02:43 PM
Ummm, try turning on "Arcade" mode in conf.ini if you want to see exactly what's going on. Lets you see big arrows where your hits are.

There is no plane in the game I haven't figured out how to shoot down yet. The new, improved 190 was a challange, but even the UBS can saw it's wings off at the right place. The hurricane, should go down no trouble. Just try again.

(you were shooting at a finnish hurri in your 109? you do know that the finns are on your side don't you?)

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 02:44 PM
Real gunnery settings are not the problem, some DM´s are. This was corrected in patch 1.1b to some extent.

Don´t know about the Hurri, but after the patch I-16´s are much more "downable" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . Anyway I strongly suggest you install 1.1b.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 02:53 PM
The I-16 is definately toned down.

I remember this "lucky shot" in my Bf109E-4, against an I-16TP.24 ... we were in very hard maneuvering at low speeds, and I've succeeded in scissoring the Ishak past me.

Just as he very briefly crossed my gun path, I let out a burst - probably not even 0.5 seconds, only 5~6 MG rounds, 2~3 20mms fired. I couldn't see if I hit him good, all I did was catch a glimpse of a smoke from a 20mm hit-burst.. I turned away, expecting to see the enemy from the corners of 7 O'c.. he wasn't there!

I searched around in panic, and there it was, tumbling down, with its left wing severed!



-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:17 PM
Don't forget that Hurricanes, due to the fabric construction were resistant to some types of damage. Not sure how well it was modeled in FB to this respect but the Hurricane was known for coming home with quite a bit of damage.

Also depends on what plane you are using...I tend to take out more aircraft using La's, 109s, or 190's than I do with Yak's for instance.

With the Hurricanes, aim for the wings or the engine.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:40 PM
Keep in mind how difficult it must have been in RL. Even if you're "barely taking down one plane per mission" and that comes to a plane every other mission, in RL that would be pretty dang good. To take down one plane for every mission you fly would be quite an accomplishment. More than one per mission consistantly would be extrordinary.

We all tend to look at the experten and say "I should be able to do that". But the closer the physics of this game approach reality that becomes a very monumental task.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 05:39 PM
Hi everyone


Bnej_03...please forgive...my translation circuits sometimes just don't follow my brain orders.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , i was talking about a Hurricane in the Gulf of Finland Map..

The Arcade mode is turned off, and i've played other missions with Realistic Gunnery enabled and managed to take down two He111, with a lot of surgically placed shots on the engines. But that Hurricane was too much... i could barely see the pilot laughing at me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif .








Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Closehotencounters.jpg


"Oops...Looks that the Heating System and WEP controls are mixed !! ": Last radio message heard from polkovnik Lavotchkin. Any coincidence between this event and recent patches applied by russian mechanics to some planes are merely speculative.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 05:51 PM
Flying a FW 190 A4 in campaign with patch 1.1b and 1.1f I have no problems at all to down Hurricanes or any other planes, including I16s...In fact, thanks to the powerfull weaponery of the 190, it just takes a short burst to down a Hurri, if well aimed...I´m in mission 40, and I´ve got an average of 2 kills per sortie...

<center>PATRIA Y HONOR
<img src=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgC0BAYXu3Ft4dbPEzs6M4eZf0A!qec0t1WkurDrK6Q0TV0lY fpkeHHrD5LuaVzXJQ6qOkKtYgnXXYbwSV39vh30VyRPTjG81fM rhMoRCs4YRhDD5Qo3Og/Cueceleches0.jpg?dc=4675424998946727344"></center>

Zayets
09-08-2003, 05:54 PM
Yep , had a similar lucky shot with a P-40 against my E4. I saw that dude coming under my nose and opened fire , just by instinct. A very short burst only with the MG's because I was sure I will not scratch him at all. But my windshield went black due to somke which was not mine.Then I've said is my lucky day. No chance. Another P40 ripped off my wing.Bailed out and captured.Sent to Siberia and came back home 6 years after the war ended.

kweassa wrote:
-
- The I-16 is definately toned down.
-
-
- I remember this "lucky shot" in my Bf109E-4,
- against an I-16TP.24 ... we were in very hard
- maneuvering at low speeds, and I've succeeded in
- scissoring the Ishak past me.
-
-
- Just as he very briefly crossed my gun path, I let
- out a burst - probably not even 0.5 seconds, only
- 5~6 MG rounds, 2~3 20mms fired. I couldn't see if I
- hit him good, all I did was catch a glimpse of a
- smoke from a 20mm hit-burst.. I turned away,
- expecting to see the enemy from the corners of 7
- O'c.. he wasn't there!
-
-
- I searched around in panic, and there it was,
- tumbling down, with its left wing severed!
-
-
-
-
-
------------
- Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns
- to..
-
- "It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and
- proud of it!



Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:00 PM
Try not to aim at any particular part of the plane, just shoot it. I never had any problem downing an aircraft (even pre-patch). Just shoot it.

_____________________________________

When does a game end being a game and become a simulator? Interesting questions to ponder while waiting, from Aces-High.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:03 PM
It is very hard for many people to accurately judge the distance and set appropriate deflection while dogfighting. Arcade mode is just to verify that you are actually hitting what you are aiming at. As a rule, if you are missing your target a lot - double the deflection and try again.

For practice - set the "arcade=1" in conf.ini, load "opponents" Hurricane with %100 fuel to make it less maneuverable, shoot, slow game down and switch to "opponents" external view to see where your bullets/shells are landing. Try again.

Hurricane is one of the easiest planes to set ablaze, in my opinion.


AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:45 PM
excellent commentary Lilhorse. Flying full real in an epic campaign, I would gladly take 'a plane a mission'. The mose kills I ever bagged in full real was 19 planes in 40 missions before dying. That was flying ultra conservative and still bying it. Flying like a hot dog would have bagged me 19 planes in 19 missions but I would be dead by 20!

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:35 PM
jagaetev wrote:
i followed that plane at 150-200
- meters trying to take down his engine first
- (shooting him from below), then tried some
- deflection shooting, then the wing roots and nothing
- happened, even with the nose cannon and machine guns
- firing together i could barely see some scratches on
- the fuselage, the wings where intact.
-
-
Well mate
If yous start shooting from 150-200metres you wont get anything anyway.
You need to be about 30m away at the most with a canon!!! (with convergence set at 300.0)
If you set your convergence to 200.0 this means your bullets are peak at 20m away from enemy. If you wanted to start shooting from 150-200metres away you would have to set your convergence to 1500 and 2000. If you say you were shooting from 150-200m I'm assuming you set your convergence to 1500


-----------------------------------
Its A known fact that Mighty Demons are here to kill. I know I am
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hj.carruthers/TOPGUN_YG.jpeg

Message Edited on 09/08/0306:39PM by MD_TOPGUN_YG

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:11 PM
Hi again Guys


Well maybe i wasn't very clear on my explanation, the plane's fuselage width filled my gunsight view and the number that showed distance to it was .15 (that's 150 meters). So there is no way i couldn't hit him at that distance !

Playing with exteernal views enabled my kill ratio per mission is around 4 (Realistic gunnery disabled) so i know i'm hitting him...i can also see some debris flying out...i also used time compression to 1/4 so this has something to do with his damage model and not my gunnery Skill.


BUT the main question is probably, has this feature suffured some changes in the patch 1.11 ?

Good flight to you !

http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Closehotencounters.jpg


"Oops...Looks that the Heating System and WEP controls are mixed !! ": Last radio message heard from polkovnik Lavotchkin. Any coincidence between this event and recent patches applied by russian mechanics to some planes are merely speculative.

Image hosting courtesy of Piranha Squadron Aviation Image Library. http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/index.php

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:46 AM
jagaetev wrote:
- Hi again Guys
-
-
- Well maybe i wasn't very clear on my explanation,
- the plane's fuselage width filled my gunsight view
- and the number that showed distance to it was .15
- (that's 150 meters). So there is no way i couldn't
- hit him at that distance !

150meters is a huge distance to shoot

as said before: go to the conf file and set arcade=1
this does NOT change damage, it only shows where you hit (arrows) and also secondary damage (splitters) and to some degree you get info when you do critical damage (speech boubles)

attack with the cannons/MGs only and count how many arrows you need to destroy the fuselage, a wing or the engine



quiet_man

second foundation member of the EURO_Snoopy fan club!

I'm quiet_man, but if I post I post quiet much /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif