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View Full Version : A Suggestion for Oleg....



XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 11:24 AM
Hey Oleg,

Here is a good suggestion for you.

As you know Movie Making is running ramped. The movie makers are going absolutely nuts over making films and gun camera footage from Forgotten Battles. It seems that they are mainly using Fraps to capture the gun camera footage.


I feel it would be more productive to have some way of either converting the in game tracks to .avi or other media formats. This would make it easier for us movie makers to export the footage to our movies plus make it easier for folks to get quality footage for things such as training and game play.

The Format it is in barely gives us movie makers anything to work with besides using Fraps. This is just a suggestion to ponder with Oleg. I think it would have many bebefits. Maybe you can give us a choice to save it to some other media format other than the .trk format currently.


Just a thought

Viper

<table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=3"><tr><td> <font color=white>Viper
Commanding Officer VMF-513
http://www.vmf513.com
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"
Ubi Movie Maker Forum Moderator
Virtual War Cinema Admin
http://vwc.blacksheepwebdesign.net

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XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 11:24 AM
Hey Oleg,

Here is a good suggestion for you.

As you know Movie Making is running ramped. The movie makers are going absolutely nuts over making films and gun camera footage from Forgotten Battles. It seems that they are mainly using Fraps to capture the gun camera footage.


I feel it would be more productive to have some way of either converting the in game tracks to .avi or other media formats. This would make it easier for us movie makers to export the footage to our movies plus make it easier for folks to get quality footage for things such as training and game play.

The Format it is in barely gives us movie makers anything to work with besides using Fraps. This is just a suggestion to ponder with Oleg. I think it would have many bebefits. Maybe you can give us a choice to save it to some other media format other than the .trk format currently.


Just a thought

Viper

<table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=3"><tr><td> <font color=white>Viper
Commanding Officer VMF-513
http://www.vmf513.com
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"
Ubi Movie Maker Forum Moderator
Virtual War Cinema Admin
http://vwc.blacksheepwebdesign.net

</font></td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 05:35 PM
I think the .AVI format would consume a LOT more diskspace than the .trk formats do.

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XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 05:43 PM
rbstr44 wrote:
- I think the .AVI format would consume a LOT more
- diskspace than the .trk formats do.
-

Yea, but only for those who want to convert the tracks to .avi. I think it is an excellent suggestion. It would give the option to the average player to share their greatest victories with the community. Movies are cool. S!

XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 06:58 PM
Okay, I guess I did not quite read the first proposal correctly/exactly. I thought the original post was asking for .AVI output format in addition to .TRK and .NTRK for recording missions.

Really, what you guys are asking for is a utility to convert tracks directly over to .AVI if I understand correctly. Unfortunately, a track file does not contain any bitmap data from the simulation. It just captures second-by-second snapshots of the telemetry of all the different movable objects in the sim, for example, their control inputs, when they fired weapons, and so on. Also, it keeps track of the different game camera views/parameters which the player used during the mission timeline. Obviously, it recalls the mission, and the map used as well as the location of all static objects. When you select track playback, the IL2:FB simulation is slaved to that playback file, and generates graphics scenes accordingly with all the objects moving and reacting as they had in the original game because their inputs come from the track (not a player or AI instance)--if everything is synched in the track like it should be, then you will witness the same series of events as they appeared when the mission was actually played. You can even select different 3D camera views than the original; but, each of these is re-generated by the game 3D engine during the playback. So, in short, a direct conversion is not possible.

The downside to recording live with an .AVI output is that frequent writes to disk would be required because one is saving large pixmap snapshots (20...30 times a second?) instead of just vector track data. In high-color (24-bit), 1280x1024 resolution, raw pixels, at 20 frames per second would generate: 20/sec. x 1280x1024-pixel x 24-bit/pixel x 1-byte/8-bit = 78,643,200 bytes/sec. or 75Mbytes/sec. With raster compression, this number would be reduced substantially (at a cost in CPU cycles), but it still illustrates the amount of real-time data collected that one has to consider. Obviously constant disk writes would be required for this frequency of data collection because RAM would fill up VERY quickly. Hard disk drive writes are a drag on game play and frame rate because they are much, much slower than CPU-RAM access--hence, they bottelneck the memory bus.

Consequently, real-time graphics grabs at 20-times per second would be unacceptable for network play (read: another avenue for lag cheats), and may degrade performance for offline play, particularly in more CPU intensive missions with a lot of moving objects. All in all, this would be a bad idea (if you had actually asked for that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).

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XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 07:14 PM
RBSTR44,

You make a good point here, but i think it would benefit more those who make movies and share them etc.

Again excellent point you have made, I never thought of it that way. It still would be interesting to have a feature like that. And you did read my original text correct. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S! Viper
rbstr44 wrote:
- Okay, I guess I did not quite read the first
- proposal correctly/exactly. I thought the original
- post was asking for .AVI output format in addition
- to .TRK and .NTRK for recording missions.
-
- Really, what you guys are asking for is a utility to
- convert tracks directly over to .AVI if I understand
- correctly. Unfortunately, a track file does not
- contain any bitmap data from the simulation. It
- just captures second-by-second snapshots of the
- telemetry of all the different movable objects in
- the sim, for example, their control inputs, when
- they fired weapons, and so on. Also, it keeps track
- of the different game camera views/parameters which
- the player used during the mission timeline.
- Obviously, it recalls the mission, and the map used
- as well as the location of all static objects. When
- you select track playback, the IL2:FB simulation is
- slaved to that playback file, and generates graphics
- scenes accordingly with all the objects moving and
- reacting as they had in the original game because
- their inputs come from the track (not a player or AI
- instance)--if everything is synched in the track
- like it should be, then you will witness the same
- series of events as they appeared when the mission
- was actually played. You can even select different
- 3D camera views than the original; but, each of
- these is re-generated by the game 3D engine during
- the playback. So, in short, a direct conversion is
- not possible.
-
- The downside to recording live with an .AVI output
- is that frequent writes to disk would be required
- because one is saving large pixmap snapshots
- (20...30 times a second?) instead of just vector
- track data. In high-color (24-bit), 1280x1024
- resolution, raw pixels, at 20 frames per second
- would generate: 20/sec. x 1280x1024-pixel x
- 24-bit/pixel x 1-byte/8-bit = 78,643,200 bytes/sec.
- or 75Mbytes/sec. With raster compression, this
- number would be reduced substantially (at a cost in
- CPU cycles), but it still illustrates the amount of
- real-time data collected that one has to consider.
- Obviously constant disk writes would be required for
- this frequency of data collection because RAM would
- fill up VERY quickly. Hard disk drive writes are a
- drag on game play and frame rate because they are
- much, much slower than CPU-RAM access--hence, they
- bottelneck the memory bus.
-
- Consequently, real-time graphics grabs at 20-times
- per second would be unacceptable for network play
- (read: another avenue for lag cheats), and may
- degrade performance for offline play, particularly
- in more CPU intensive missions with a lot of moving
- objects. All in all, this would be a bad idea (if
- you had actually asked for that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).
-
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- href="http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/"
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- mash_potter_anim.gif" width="205" height="95"
- border="0" alt="Click here to take the M*A*S*H
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<table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=3"><tr><td> <font color=white>Viper
Commanding Officer VMF-513
http://www.vmf513.com
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"
Ubi Movie Maker Forum Moderator
Virtual War Cinema Admin
http://vwc.blacksheepwebdesign.net

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XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 08:12 PM
Viper,

I have not made any IL-2 movies, but I have captured real-time 2D graphics into multi-media format using Camtasia, and that operation does put quite a load on the computer system I used. It tends to slow down the screen update rate and pointer/input response time--in short, I need a new computer before I try that again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

I appreciate the time and dedication the moviemakers put into their craft; so, I understand how it would be helpful to have some shortcut methods/tools.

S!
robster(44)


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XyZspineZyX
11-28-2003, 05:29 AM
Robster,

Maybe you should try making a few movies. There are work around already that wont eat up alot of computer time etc. What is your computer specs and I will compare them to mine because I have made some interesting movies out there as well.

S! Viper

<table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=3"><tr><td> <font color=white>Viper
Commanding Officer VMF-513
http://www.vmf513.com
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"
Ubi Movie Maker Forum Moderator
Virtual War Cinema Admin
http://vwc.blacksheepwebdesign.net

</font></td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
11-28-2003, 09:48 AM
I think what the movie makers *really* want is a track-playback option that renders each frame and writes it to disk. User-selectable resolution and framerate of course. Let the game take as long as it wants on each frame, we want quality here. Ubi should insist on this in BoB just for the marketing utility of perfect game footage.

Set the camera movements the way you want them and let 'er rip. Disk space be d###ed


rbstr44 wrote:
- Really, what you guys are asking for is a utility to
- convert tracks directly over to .AVI if I understand
- correctly. Unfortunately, a track file does not
- contain any bitmap data from the simulation.

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1951.

XyZspineZyX
11-28-2003, 10:28 AM
ntrk is only a couple of k and very quick to send a track, fraps camtastia or adobe premier are fine for captures

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XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 12:03 PM
What he said:

mllaneza wrote:
- I think what the movie makers *really* want is a
- track-playback option that renders each frame and
- writes it to disk. User-selectable resolution and
- framerate of course. Let the game take as long as it
- wants on each frame, we want quality here. Ubi
- should insist on this in BoB just for the marketing
- utility of perfect game footage.
-
- Set the camera movements the way you want them and
- let 'er rip. Disk space be d###ed
-
-
- rbstr44 wrote:
-- Really, what you guys are asking for is a utility to
-- convert tracks directly over to .AVI if I understand
-- correctly. Unfortunately, a track file does not
-- contain any bitmap data from the simulation.
-
- Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force,
- 1993-1951.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 12:01 AM
this is a very good suggestion, but i can't understand what's the problem with the other guys replying to your post... his point is simple, that is, having the fb engine behave as a frame renderer... you set the frame rate, and then the fb renderer writes its output to disk just like 3D studio would do... the problem when you make movies is fraps (or whatever proggie you use to capture video output) won't run in sync with fb, hence you get a messed up timescale... for example, if fraps is set to capture at 10fps and fb drops to say 5 fps, when the track is played back you'll get time warp... anyway, can't wait for a feature like this, then give me a rail mounted, joystick controllable camera and you'll make me as happy as a 4yrs old kid on xmas day /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BM357_Raven
12-02-2003, 06:35 AM
I think this is a great idea. My problem is that I usually record quick tracks and let them run for a long time. Then I go back with fraps and watch them and record what I need. I could really use a fast forward and rewind / search feature. Just another thing to the ongoing wish list I suppose... Man I love this game. No matter what I just keep on lovin' it!

S~ Oleg

Blazing Magnums 357th VFG

http://bm357.com/bm357_raven_with_guns%20copy.jpg


http://www.bm357.com

XyZspineZyX
12-02-2003, 02:41 PM
That's exactly what I would like to see mllaneza.
As a selectable option. We wouldn't have to worry about using programs like fraps then and the workarounds we have to go through to achieve smooth video capture.

Bumpy bump bump

BTW bump

mllaneza wrote:
- I think what the movie makers *really* want is a
- track-playback option that renders each frame and
- writes it to disk. User-selectable resolution and
- framerate of course. Let the game take as long as it
- wants on each frame, we want quality here. Ubi
- should insist on this in BoB just for the marketing
- utility of perfect game footage.
-

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