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lud_13
02-21-2006, 07:14 AM
Hello all !!!

I know there are almost no chance to see Me210/410 and Hs129 as flyable planes but I had to ask.
Its sad to put these two planes aside whan we have planes like Bf109Z, Go229 and more recent Do335 flyable. Not to mention all these boosted planes that are requiested latly.
Now dont get me wrong, i dont have anything against each of the planes i mention above coz every new plane is a velcome addition to this great sim.
But planes like Me210/410 and Hs129 did saw extensive service and they left their mark in history of WWII. In last few months I fly many great missins in Me110G-2 (oh how much i want Bf110G-4) and I think this two planes will add some fresh blood too.

So is there any chance we will be able to fly these planes in this sim ?

SG2_Lemmi
02-21-2006, 07:36 AM
Exactly what i think. I remember at least that the Hs-129 cockpit was partially built. Wonder what happened.
But i also think, that Maddox should stop implementing more and more planes to this engine and concentrate on the upcoming simulation. Maybe there is another chance to see these birds in the virtual sky http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

csThor
02-21-2006, 08:03 AM
Problem A) The deadline for 3rd Party projects was way back.
Problem B) The modeller of the He 162 had also started the Hs 129, but was then posted to Iraq (direct your thanks to Winnipooh Bush jr).
Problem C) There is very little material available on the Hs 129 cockpit and most of it does not provide the information depth needed for Il-2 projects.

Sintubin
02-21-2006, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by lud_13:
Hello all !!!

I know there are almost no chance to see Me210/410 and Hs129 as flyable planes but I had to ask.
Its sad to put these two planes aside whan we have planes like Bf109Z, Go229 and more recent Do335 flyable. Not to mention all these boosted planes that are requiested latly.
Now dont get me wrong, i dont have anything against each of the planes i mention above coz every new plane is a velcome addition to this great sim.
But planes like Me210/410 and Hs129 did saw extensive service and they left their mark in history of WWII. In last few months I fly many great missins in Me110G-2 (oh how much i want Bf110G-4) and I think this two planes will add some fresh blood too.

So is there any chance we will be able to fly these planes in this sim ?

Heya LUD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Your right mate we need those planes

I asked MR oleg some time ago for the ME-410

He replyed back that maybe they wil be in BOB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
02-21-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
Problem A) The deadline for 3rd Party projects was way back.
Problem B) The modeller of the He 162 had also started the Hs 129, but was then posted to Iraq (direct your thanks to Winnipooh Bush jr).
Problem C) There is very little material available on the Hs 129 cockpit and most of it does not provide the information depth needed for Il-2 projects.

Yes, blame him even for not getting what you want in PF. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You're a serious, feckin a$$, you know that?

csThor
02-21-2006, 10:32 AM
EDIT: Brain's right ... no need to add fuel to the fire. It was an attempt at irony/sarcasm (choose whatever you like).

Nothing to see here, folks ... Move along and back to topic. Thx.

Brain32
02-21-2006, 10:59 AM
Will you cut Bushi*ting?
Yes those planes would be very welcome, I guess everybody is making high hopes for the BoB, I have no doubt O.Maddox will make another masterpiece. You know I watched a collection of WIP's at airwarfare and it made my jaw drop, when you see all that in one place it looks scary good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

KG26_Oranje
02-21-2006, 01:58 PM
Me like this one to add in game long time ago.
Hope for the best in future.
http://www.simviation.com/pageimages/Hs129a.jpg
Technical Data

Origin: Henschel Flugzeugwerke AG.
Type: Single-seat close support and ground attack aircraft.
Engines: (B-series) two 690hp Gnome-Rhone 14M 04/05 14-cylinder two-row radials.
Dimensions: Span 46ft 7in (14.2m); length 31ft 11 3/4 in (9.75m); height 10ft 8in (3.25m)
Weights: (Typical B-1) empty 8,940lb (4060kg); loaded 11,265lb (5110kg)
Performance: (Typical B-1) maximum speed 253mph (408 km/h); initial climb 1,390ft (425m)/min; service ceiling 29,530ft (9000m); range 547 miles (840km)
Armament: See text
Users: Germany (Luftwaffe), Hungary, Romania

An interesting aircraft by any standards, the Henschel showed that an aircraft of its type was feasable, and militarily useful.

There were many types of specialised close-support and ground attack aircraft as far back as the First World War, but this class of aircraft was then virtually ignored until the Spanish Civil War! The fighting in Spain showed, once again, that this category was one of the most important of all.

In 1938, the RLM decided to issue a specification for such an aircraft, after all, the whole purpose of the Luftwaffe was to support the Wehrmacht in it's Blitzkreig battles- to back up the purpose-designed Ju87 Stuka Dive-bomber.

Henschel's Dipl-Ing F. Nicholaus was the man who designed the trim machine, that somewhat resembled the twin-engine fighters of the day, but the Henschel was much more armour, and less powerful engines. (Two 495hp Argus As 410A-1 air-cooled inverted-vee-12s) The pilot, (who was the only person on board) sat in the extreme nose behind a 3-inch thick windscreen, with his cockpit surrounded by armour. The triangular-section fuselage had self-sealing tanks, the guns in the sloping sides and a hardpoint for a bomb underneath.
Test pilots at Rechlin roundly cursed the A-0 pre-production batch as grossly underpowered, but these aircraft were used on the Eastern Front by Germany's Romanian Air Force Allies.

The redesigned B-series used the vast stocks of French 14M engines that were available. (And were then being produced by the Vichy government for the Me323 Gigant.) Altogether, the Germans produced 841 Bs, which were used with considerable success in the East, but with less success in North Africa. The B-1/R1 had two 7.92mm MG17 and two 20mm MG 151/20, along with two 110lb or 48 fragmentation bombs.


The R2 had a 30mm MK 101 clipped underneath itself, and was the first aircraft to use a 30mm gun in combat action. The R3 had a ventral box of four MG 17. The R4 carried up to 551 lb of bombs. The R5 had a vertical camera for photo-reconnaisance. The B-2 series also changed the inbuilt MG 17s for MG 131s and other subtypes that had numerous kinds of armament, including the 37mm BK 3.7 and the vicious 75mm BK 7.5 gun, whose muzzle extended about eight feet ahead of the cockpit. This fearsome weapon, called "Pak" by many, was employed with some success.
The most novel armament, used against the Russian armour forces with often devastating results, was a battery of six smooth-bore 75mm tubes firing recoilless shells down and to the rear with automatic triggering as the aircraft flew over metal objects.

The Henschels were already in operational service by 1944. The New Luftwaffe Schlachtflieger, the specialists close support formations, were an all important element of the Luftwaffe against the Russians. The weapons carried by some Hs129's, could knock out even the mighty Josef Stalin tanks. As with all the weapons of the Luftwaffe, the Hs129s were too late and too little to stave off defeat. Many have speculated however, that the Luftwaffe close-support units delayed the Russians by months. While this may or may not be true, one must give the Hs129 credit where it is due. What it lacked in maneuverability and speed, (the lack of speed making it easier to attack) the Henschel made up in armour and firepower. The Hs129 was also successor to the Hs123, which was finally phased out in 1944, after a service career that lasted since the Spanish Civil War.

If the Luftwaffe had shown more interest in the Hs129 earlier, they possibly could have slowed the massive Soviet offensives of 1944, in what the Russians came to call: "The Year of Ten Victories"

Waldo.Pepper
02-21-2006, 04:25 PM
I have plenty of plenty of cockpit information for the HS129 but it is too late sadly as this would have been a great addition.

JG54_Lukas
02-21-2006, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by csThor:
Problem B) The modeller of the He 162 had also started the Hs 129, but was then posted to Iraq (direct your thanks to Winnipooh Bush jr).
Problem C) There is very little material available on the Hs 129 cockpit and most of it does not provide the information depth needed for Il-2 projects.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yep, that's pretty much what happened. I would've loved to have finished it, but there was no way it was going to happen. I have enough cockpit information on the B-2, but the B-3 would have been iffy.

Codex1971
02-22-2006, 03:35 AM
What about the Ta-154

http://www.europa1939.com/luftwaffe/cazas/ta1541.JPG

http://www.europa1939.com/luftwaffe/cazas/ta154.JPG

Top Speed @ SL: 335 mph (543 kph) TAS
Top Speed @ Alt: 395 mph (640 kph) TAS @ 24,300 feet
Max Cruise @ SL: 281 mph (455 kph) TAS @ 1.15 ata/2250 rpm
Max Cruise @ 19,685 ft: 273 mph IAS/362 mph TAS @ 1.15 ata/2250 rpm
Normal Cruise: 258 mph IAS/343 mph TAS @ 19,685 feet @ 1.0 ata/2000 rpm
Climb: 10 minutes to 19,685 ft @ 1.32 ata/2500 rpm/150 mph IAS
Initial climb: 3000 fpm (15 m/s)
Engines: 2x Junkers Jumo 211R inline liquid-cooled V-12
Takeoff power: 1500 HP @ 1.45 ata/2700 RPM
Climb (rated) power: 1300 HP @ 1.32 ata/2500 RPM
Max cruise power: 950 HP @ 1.15 ata/2300 RPM
Service ceiling: 34,440 feet
Fuel capacity: 396 gallons
Range: 872 miles
Fuel consumption at max cruise: 79 gph/engine

Was originaly designed to counter the mozzie, but was finally turned into a night fighter.

Codex1971
02-22-2006, 03:48 AM
Sorry can't help myself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif The Me-410 would be an awsome ride too...

http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410--.jpg

http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410_4.jpg

Hawgdog
02-22-2006, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
The modeller of the He 162 had also started the Hs 129, but was then posted to Iraq (direct your thanks to Winnipooh Bush jr).
Problem C)

Your problem is obvious.

269GA-Veltro
02-22-2006, 07:20 AM
Bump, bump and BUUUUMP!!!

Hornisse was (is) a wonderfull german bird....and it would have been a nice (great for me) addition for the Pe-2 addon, but there is no way to understand this...

My two cents of course, nothing else than a personal opinion.

lud_13
02-22-2006, 08:34 AM
I am sure the problem with cocpit information will be solved in no time....But as I see it the time is the main problem here.

But it will be great to pound russian tanks with Hs129 and American heavys with 210/410 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stafroty
02-22-2006, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Sintubin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lud_13:
Hello all !!!

I know there are almost no chance to see Me210/410 and Hs129 as flyable planes but I had to ask.
Its sad to put these two planes aside whan we have planes like Bf109Z, Go229 and more recent Do335 flyable. Not to mention all these boosted planes that are requiested latly.
Now dont get me wrong, i dont have anything against each of the planes i mention above coz every new plane is a velcome addition to this great sim.
But planes like Me210/410 and Hs129 did saw extensive service and they left their mark in history of WWII. In last few months I fly many great missins in Me110G-2 (oh how much i want Bf110G-4) and I think this two planes will add some fresh blood too.

So is there any chance we will be able to fly these planes in this sim ?

Heya LUD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Your right mate we need those planes

I asked MR oleg some time ago for the ME-410

He replyed back that maybe they wil be in BOB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


what to bet, that we got these same old cockpits in bob, as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mynameisroland
02-22-2006, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Codex1971:
Sorry can't help myself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif The Me-410 would be an awsome ride too...

http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410--.jpg


http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410_4.jpg (http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410_4.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)


Love those pics is the colour one real ?

jagdmailer
02-22-2006, 12:00 PM
Ya, there is a couple Me 410 in museam in very good conditions. One in OK and one in the US if I recall correctly.

When we were trying to get a team to get the cockit done for the Me 410, we were hoping to be able to get access to the one in England. That one was on public display for a while a someone on the team had access to the museum. However, by the time this need came about, the UK Me 410 was no longer on public display and the museum wanted big bucks for us to have access to the cockpit for photos. This is when the project came to a halt. Also, there were some issues from Oleg's point of vue on modelling the rear MG131 so I am not sure how far we would have got even if we had the whole cockpit done.



Jagd


Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Codex1971:
Sorry can't help myself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif The Me-410 would be an awsome ride too...

http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410--.jpg


http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410_4.jpg (http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Medium/Me410/me410_4.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)


Love those pics is the colour one real ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

MEAKO
02-22-2006, 01:38 PM
The colour photo is real, it is the Me410 @ RAF Cosford.

Many years ago as a volunteer at this museum i had the good fortune to get inside this aircraft and since then i have always loved the 410.

I tried last year to get shots of the cockpit of this bird for IL2 but the museum wanted nearly 400 for the pleasure which stopped me.

I contacted the Smithsonian and they have a 410 but it is in long term storage awaiting restoration but they do have a lot of good documentation which would have helped in the building of the cockpit but at this stage Olegs cut off date stopped things, the rear gunner issue would have been a problem.

Destroyer110
02-22-2006, 01:56 PM
Gee wiz guys, you want everything. We're getting a flyable pe-2 in the Russian add-on, just add some german markings and hey, Presto! a ME410!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

If you set a maximum power limit of 50% then you can have a ME210 as well!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

No imagination ..

lbhskier37
02-22-2006, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
Me like this one to add in game long time ago.
Hope for the best in future.
http://www.simviation.com/pageimages/Hs129a.jpg
Technical Data

Origin: Henschel Flugzeugwerke AG.
Type: Single-seat close support and ground attack aircraft.
Engines: (B-series) two 690hp Gnome-Rhone 14M 04/05 14-cylinder two-row radials.
Dimensions: Span 46ft 7in (14.2m); length 31ft 11 3/4 in (9.75m); height 10ft 8in (3.25m)
Weights: (Typical B-1) empty 8,940lb (4060kg); loaded 11,265lb (5110kg)
Performance: (Typical B-1) maximum speed 253mph (408 km/h); initial climb 1,390ft (425m)/min; service ceiling 29,530ft (9000m); range 547 miles (840km)
Armament: See text
Users: Germany (Luftwaffe), Hungary, Romania

An interesting aircraft by any standards, the Henschel showed that an aircraft of its type was feasable, and militarily useful.

There were many types of specialised close-support and ground attack aircraft as far back as the First World War, but this class of aircraft was then virtually ignored until the Spanish Civil War! The fighting in Spain showed, once again, that this category was one of the most important of all.

In 1938, the RLM decided to issue a specification for such an aircraft, after all, the whole purpose of the Luftwaffe was to support the Wehrmacht in it's Blitzkreig battles- to back up the purpose-designed Ju87 Stuka Dive-bomber.

Henschel's Dipl-Ing F. Nicholaus was the man who designed the trim machine, that somewhat resembled the twin-engine fighters of the day, but the Henschel was much more armour, and less powerful engines. (Two 495hp Argus As 410A-1 air-cooled inverted-vee-12s) The pilot, (who was the only person on board) sat in the extreme nose behind a 3-inch thick windscreen, with his cockpit surrounded by armour. The triangular-section fuselage had self-sealing tanks, the guns in the sloping sides and a hardpoint for a bomb underneath.
Test pilots at Rechlin roundly cursed the A-0 pre-production batch as grossly underpowered, but these aircraft were used on the Eastern Front by Germany's Romanian Air Force Allies.

The redesigned B-series used the vast stocks of French 14M engines that were available. (And were then being produced by the Vichy government for the Me323 Gigant.) Altogether, the Germans produced 841 Bs, which were used with considerable success in the East, but with less success in North Africa. The B-1/R1 had two 7.92mm MG17 and two 20mm MG 151/20, along with two 110lb or 48 fragmentation bombs.


The R2 had a 30mm MK 101 clipped underneath itself, and was the first aircraft to use a 30mm gun in combat action. The R3 had a ventral box of four MG 17. The R4 carried up to 551 lb of bombs. The R5 had a vertical camera for photo-reconnaisance. The B-2 series also changed the inbuilt MG 17s for MG 131s and other subtypes that had numerous kinds of armament, including the 37mm BK 3.7 and the vicious 75mm BK 7.5 gun, whose muzzle extended about eight feet ahead of the cockpit. This fearsome weapon, called "Pak" by many, was employed with some success.
The most novel armament, used against the Russian armour forces with often devastating results, was a battery of six smooth-bore 75mm tubes firing recoilless shells down and to the rear with automatic triggering as the aircraft flew over metal objects.

The Henschels were already in operational service by 1944. The New Luftwaffe Schlachtflieger, the specialists close support formations, were an all important element of the Luftwaffe against the Russians. The weapons carried by some Hs129's, could knock out even the mighty Josef Stalin tanks. As with all the weapons of the Luftwaffe, the Hs129s were too late and too little to stave off defeat. Many have speculated however, that the Luftwaffe close-support units delayed the Russians by months. While this may or may not be true, one must give the Hs129 credit where it is due. What it lacked in maneuverability and speed, (the lack of speed making it easier to attack) the Henschel made up in armour and firepower. The Hs129 was also successor to the Hs123, which was finally phased out in 1944, after a service career that lasted since the Spanish Civil War.

If the Luftwaffe had shown more interest in the Hs129 earlier, they possibly could have slowed the massive Soviet offensives of 1944, in what the Russians came to call: "The Year of Ten Victories"

Good bit of info Oranje, where did you get it from? HS was a pretty interesting plane and would've been pretty fun in game. I think the info is a bit off with dates though, the B-1 was in service on the eastern front in spring of 1942 according to Black Cross Red Star. I think it may have been the B-2 with the big guns that didn't see service until 1944.

VW-IceFire
02-22-2006, 04:47 PM
The unfortunate fact is that some of the rarer Luftwaffe birds have better and more available documentation than some of the frontline stalwarts. I believe it was easier to dig up Do-335 information than it ever was to get Me-410 information. Ironic!

If we're going to talk about frontline day aircraft for the Luftwaffe side that are missing you would have to include:

Do-17
Do-217
Ju-188
German version of the Me-210 (you may not like it)
Me-410
Hs-123
Hs-129 as flyable

But there are considerable resources required to do all of that and most of them don't really give us anything new (like the Dornier's) except for added historical immersion and accuracy. I'm happy for any new aircraft...I love new additions and having this huge sandbox to play in...but there are only so many hours in a day that Oleg and his team can pound away on this stuff.

My personal hope is to see some of these in the future.

JG52_wunsch
02-22-2006, 10:59 PM
hs-129 and the 219 as well ju88c,i would ve loved to fly all of them.cheers.