PDA

View Full Version : Multiplayer Stun Improvement



KaosuGakusetsu
11-17-2010, 06:26 PM
Okay, I understand that it even states not to rely on it but come one guys. What's the point in having the stun feature, if you cannot defend yourself at all?

I would like it, if it could be either updated so that we CAN rely on it or add something which gives us a chance and get rid of stun.

I am tired of losing those little moment things with stun, but seriously make it fair for everyone. I bet you that alot of others will say the same.

obliviondoll
11-17-2010, 06:50 PM
OK, was said MANY times in threads like this during the beta, but I guess we're going to go through this again (continuously until everyone gets it)...

STUN ISN'T A COUNTER.

Stun your hunter when they're trying to pick which you is you. Join a crowd where you have a few lookalikes, and wait.

When someone walks up and looks like they're trying to decide who to kill, that's your window to step up and take them down.

It's not meant to be easy.

Joining a crowd in a half-hidden corner close to one with lookalikes makes you less obvious as a target, and more likely to get away with it (coming up from behind), but if they come from a direction where they see you on your own before the ones that look like you, it can backfire. Also, if they see you coming, they can usually get you before you stun them, so you need to be careful.

DeafAtheist
11-17-2010, 06:56 PM
Stun is perfect the way it is. It requires strategy to outsmart your pursuer. There's a number of ways to make stun effective with practice...

Time a smoke bomb right to stop them in their tracks then stun them.

Morph a group of NPCs and stand or walk with them. While your pursuer is confused trying to figure out which one of you to kill stun him.

Use Disguise near NPCs that look like you and when your pursuer passes by you stun him.

If the stun worked as effectively as an assassination it would come down to being a game about who pushes a button first. That would suck.

During the beta their were NUMEROUS complaints about the stun with people wanting it to be more effective than it is and Ubisoft didn't change it... Why? Because that's the way they intended it to be.

Admittedly I've not gotten very good at stunning yet myself, but I like it the way it is... makes it more of a challenge.

Duckgrinder
11-17-2010, 07:00 PM
The only thing i would ask is to make it work better on the ******s that sprint around the whole game just jumping on people and running along the rooftops.

Amuzah
11-17-2010, 07:16 PM
The best way to stun is to throw a smoke bomb before you do so. You have to make your pursuer mess up, you can't just be like I GOTCHA! and expect to stun them.

mayorwest
11-17-2010, 07:18 PM
I have to agree with Obliviondoll and DeafAtheist on this one. The stun is fine the way it is. Heck, its even easier to pull off now than it was in the beta!! (They did change it some, seems like the O button pops up slightly sooner)

I've managed to get the hang of them it just takes practice and timing. Smoke bombs can be a great tool for getting stuns as well, like DeafAtheist said.

kaikai85
11-17-2010, 07:47 PM
check the news section in game, it has a brief article called "regarding stun"
read it, its basically saying "stun is fine the way it is"

really your not meant to be killing your hunter, you are relying on evading them till someone else kills them.

MatPress
11-17-2010, 10:06 PM
I have had trouble getting used to the stun thing, but I didn't play beta.

I understand it is supposed to be a covert option, but what I don't like is that it is your only counter offensive option. If I see someone who is targeting me I can either bail or die (or hope they are to stupid to hit the assassinate button).

I would like to see some way of being able to do something more than just run once I have been found, but maybe I will find a cure to my problem when I get more powers unlocked.

DeafAtheist
11-17-2010, 11:14 PM
The Charge ability is the easiest way to Stun. You don't even need to see who your pursuer is. If you suspect they're close and you activate the Charge you will run up to them and instantly stun them. Nothing they can do to about it. Charge also works offensively too. Your target could be hiding in a group of NPCs of the same persona and and activating charge you automatically rush in and kill him.

However, be careful using it blindly against pursuers because you can waste it if there's no one near you or they are even slightly elevated like on the bleachers in Siena for example.

Thrakus183
11-18-2010, 08:59 AM
I feel like "Stun" is mislabeled.
On the wikia site they label it as "Dishonor" which is more appropriate. I also read somewhere it labeled as a "Humiliation" move.

That's all it is, it's not meant to be an effective counter. It's kicking dirt in your opponent's eye basically.

Think of if as a game of literal cat and mouse.
If a cat sees the mouse, he's gonna kill it without a problem the mouse can't fight back.
That's all the multi is.
Your both cat and mouse. When your the hunter, you should always have the advantage. As the hunted, you should be more on your toes and it's about being a good hider or escaping, not fighting back.

DeafAtheist
11-18-2010, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Thrakus183:
I feel like "Stun" is mislabeled.
On the wikia site they label it as "Dishonor" which is more appropriate. I also read somewhere it labeled as a "Humiliation" move.

That's all it is, it's not meant to be an effective counter. It's kicking dirt in your opponent's eye basically.

Think of if as a game of literal cat and mouse.
If a cat sees the mouse, he's gonna kill it without a problem the mouse can't fight back.
That's all the multi is.
Your both cat and mouse. When your the hunter, you should always have the advantage. As the hunted, you should be more on your toes and it's about being a good hider or escaping, not fighting back.

I don't know if "Dishonor" is an appropriate term because there's nothing dishonorable about knocking out someone who is trying to kill you. "Humiliation" is a much better description.

I was watching last week's episode of "Lie To Me" and a scene in it reminded me of ACB multiplayer. This guy pulled a knife on 3 unarmed guys and one of them didn't hesitate and just punched him out. Dr. Lightman (Tim Roth) commented saying that he "brought a knife to a fistfight" before they stepped over his slumped body and walked away.

There's no real point to me mentioning that in my post, but the underlying point is that I agree the multiplayer game IS supposed to be a cat & mouse game. When you're a target you're a mouse so you're not supposed to be able to easily get the upper hand on your pursuer. It requires outsmarting them and using quick reflexes.

BloodyMoon1
11-18-2010, 01:39 PM
What most people need to realize when they complain that stun needs to be better, that doesn't just make YOUR stun better, it makes EVERYONES better. So you'll stun your pursuers, but you'll never get a single kill. The match would become "who stuns people the most".

hayoye111
11-18-2010, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
STUN ISN'T A COUNTER.

Not if it's in the the right hands. More then once I was able to stun 2 or 3 opponents in a row (in Manhunt, of course) by blending in a crowd and then using a smokebomb. Though I must admit, I even feel that sometimes it's even a bit OP, but maybe that's just me. On the other hand, I've met my share of fools that weren't subtle about their intents of stunning me. I've had a few time were I was able to kill 2-3 preys in a row because they were foolish enough to try and gang up on me.

I have a question, though. How does one block a stun? I've had plenty of time where I was about to stun an unsuspecting ennemy, but somehow they blocked it. I've tried blocking stuns, I mean I had my target locked and everything, I knew it was them and I knew they wanted to stun me, but I'm unsure how to block it.

Raisendori
11-18-2010, 04:38 PM
i just had a horrible few games
i kept getting stunned like crazy! and i like to think that i am a good player so im confused
when i was going up a chute, my target was chasing his target and he just stuns me
i was cursing in my mind like crazy
he wasnt even going toward me!

TheXenon
11-18-2010, 11:49 PM
Stun is for when you're hiding in a crowd and someone walks up suspiciously and is deciding which one of you to take out. That's when you smoke bomb and then stun.

KaosuGakusetsu
11-19-2010, 08:31 AM
It seems a whole hell of a lot of you misunderstood what I was saying.

Okay let me explain this in a much more simple form so you can understand.

Now then, when you hit the "B" or "O" button and your fist is like an inch from their face, they turn around and kill you like nothing even happened.

The question is: is that fair and balanced?
My answer: Hell no.

That is the problem I have with stun. Knowing that you executed it, before your hunter went to kill you, yet still you still get killed in the end.

If I need to go into a much more simple form let me know and I can do that.

(Edit: Oh and by the way I was not asking for strategies, you morons. I know all of them, technically just about everyone knows all of them.)

kaikai85
11-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by KaosuGakusetsu:

Okay let me explain this in a much more simple form so you can understand.
.....
(Edit: Oh and by the way I was not asking for strategies, you morons. I know all of them, technically just about everyone knows all of them.)

you've just lost any sympathy i, and other forum go'ers here may have had for you.
goodbye.

KCizzll
11-19-2010, 07:12 PM
Stun is only effective from the sides and behind. Trying to stun from the front is asking for heartache.

Obviously you don't know everything or you wouldn't be on the forums asking for help...

assassin087
11-19-2010, 08:34 PM
The only problem i have with stun is the ability to counter it.

hayoye111
11-19-2010, 11:48 PM
Personally, I find stun to be more and more OP, in the sense that in Manhunt, it becomes a viable solution for the hunted team to make points. I can't recall how many times my team always made more points than the opposing time while we were the prey. It's getting a little ridiculous. I'm not even complaining that people can stun me pretty easily too, if it's easy for them, it's absolutely unfairly one-sided when I'm playing defence. Of course, a little teamwork can overpower a team of over-confident fools who are in mah base, trying to stun mah teammates. Yes, because killing incognito makes twice as much points as stunning, not to mention other bonuses. But when I'm able to stun 3 guys in a row fairly often, it begs the question: I'm I just that good, or am I just exploiting the power of the mighty stun? Especially in Manhunt. I mean, when I get a little over-confident, I'll actually chase a pursuer to stun him, and it works half of the time, too! The bulk of the points in Manhunt should come from hiding, not stunning. I mean, it's supposed to be an humiliation move.

KCizzll
11-20-2010, 02:17 AM
What are you using to get the stuns?

Smoke/mute? Or au natural?

hayoye111
11-20-2010, 02:35 AM
I've had a few multi-stun without using abilities, but using abilities does help, especially mute/decoy when used right. Still, I feel like players aren't on the defencive enough in Manhunt.

KaosuGakusetsu
11-20-2010, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by kaikai85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KaosuGakusetsu:

Okay let me explain this in a much more simple form so you can understand.
.....
(Edit: Oh and by the way I was not asking for strategies, you morons. I know all of them, technically just about everyone knows all of them.)

you've just lost any sympathy i, and other forum go'ers here may have had for you.
goodbye. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets get one thing straight here. Who in the hell did I ever ask sympathy from? No one, so shove it.

Secondly, AGAIN I am not asking for tactics I know them all. So those wanting to list tactics and discuss it, make another a different topic and post them there.

Finally, stun is not effectuve period whether it be from the front, the back, or either side when you executed stun before your hunter executed you at all. No matter what, I really do not see how this beta got 10/10.

To me if the beta was 10/10, it has severely dropped. Many upon many people of the Xbox Live community as well as many people on my friend's list (25 to be exact) all believe that Stun is not balanced and either needs to be changed or just removed.

Thats our opinion on this matter and guess what? We are freakin entitled to it, don't like it? Tough.

Oh and if you are intending to give sympathy to me about this, take that sympathy of yours and shove it where the sun don't shine. I never asked for it in the first place.

Also if you want to insult me, do it to my face and not over the computer or Xbox Live. It will just show that you think you are big in bad when, you're not. So think hard, ******s.

Edit: Moderators, please lock this topic. I am already tired of dealing with others who cannot see from another's stand point.

hayoye111
11-20-2010, 11:16 PM
Besides the odd counter-stun now and again, stun can be pretty effective against an unsuspecting ennemy. I think the problem might come from lag. It's possible that from the player's view point, he might have initiated stun. On the other hand, his pursuer might have already begun the assassination move, and to comepensate for the lag, the game makes it appear that he blocked the stun. I say that because I've never been able, from my perspective anyway, to initiate a counter-stun. I think it's actually a clever way to cover lag. I'm only speculating, though. What's for sure is that my stuns work 100% of the time if I surprise them completely or if I use mute.

Eddie84777
11-20-2010, 11:30 PM
i know the stun is not suppose to be a counter for the hunter... and i agree with the way it works, how you are suppose to use it when you see your hunter sliping whenin the group trying to find you... but the only disagree i have is, when i catch you walking at me in an angle so i know its you and i head off in a different direction, around a cornor or what ever and walk out wanting you to come to me. so the hunter thinks that he is clear, then i come upbeside him and initiate the stun and i "watch" my char rear back and swing forward... and right befor it hits him in the face.. its like an open window for them still to do there attack.. and once they do hit there attack it over powers my stun.

now im all for this if this is the way it is suppose to happen.. but it needs to happen on both ends.. if i can hit the stun befor you use your knife well that is your slip not mine.

DeafAtheist
11-21-2010, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by KaosuGakusetsu:
Lets get one thing straight here. Who in the hell did I ever ask sympathy from? No one, so shove it.

Perhaps you didn't ask for sympathy directly but that was what was read between the lines from your original whiny post about how unfair and unbalanced the stun is.


Secondly, AGAIN I am not asking for tactics I know them all. So those wanting to list tactics and discuss it, make another a different topic and post them there.

You sure about that? Your whining post starting this thread seemed to indicate otherwise. Stun is quite effective when you employ the tactics we've all discussed in here. But here you are whining some more about how it isn't.


Finally, stun is not effectuve period whether it be from the front, the back, or either side when you executed stun before your hunter executed you at all. No matter what, I really do not see how this beta got 10/10.

So you're claiming to already know all the tactics we discussed in your thread here, but you're claiming they don't work. They work just fine for the rest of us. Maybe you just suck at it.


To me if the beta was 10/10, it has severely dropped. Many upon many people of the Xbox Live community as well as many people on my friend's list (25 to be exact) all believe that Stun is not balanced and either needs to be changed or just removed.

Obviously our posts attempting to help you out here is beyond your comprehension abilities or something because clearly you're still missing the point so allow me to clarify here for you in bold so it sinks in. The stun ability is NOT... I repeat NOT supposed to be fair or balanced. It is ONLY supposed to work when you outsmart or out play your pursuer by deploying the tactics you claim to already know here. So as Ubisoft has said and is even posted in the Info section of the game... it's not meant to be depended on. PERIOD.

The people who came in here to post in your thread here were only trying to help you out. Turning hostile just makes you look immature.

TaigaAisaka
11-21-2010, 12:49 AM
Count me in ^.<

PSN ID: kneiceL

TheXenon
11-21-2010, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by KaosuGakusetsu:
It seems a whole hell of a lot of you misunderstood what I was saying.

Okay let me explain this in a much more simple form so you can understand.

Now then, when you hit the "B" or "O" button and your fist is like an inch from their face, they turn around and kill you like nothing even happened.

The question is: is that fair and balanced?
My answer: Hell no.

That is the problem I have with stun. Knowing that you executed it, before your hunter went to kill you, yet still you still get killed in the end.

If I need to go into a much more simple form let me know and I can do that.

(Edit: Oh and by the way I was not asking for strategies, you morons. I know all of them, technically just about everyone knows all of them.)

Is that not the same kind of **** that happens in single player when you're already in combat, whip out your hidden blade and try to stab a guard in the face but he grabs your wrist and pushes you away? Seems perfectly balanced to me, if a guard can do it there's no reason for a player not to do it.

I understand you're extremely bad and cannot handle the game play online but it isn't anyone's fault but your own. I have like 200 stuns since release all thanks to smoke bombs mostly. Just get used to it and don't WANT to rely on it other wise you'll just end up a giant failure sitting there dead asking your self the same old question. "Is that balanced? Omfg QQ"

KaosuGakusetsu
11-21-2010, 07:36 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">** Please do not swear on the forums - and do not attack other members! **</span>

obliviondoll
11-21-2010, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by hayoye111:
Personally, I find stun to be more and more OP, in the sense that in Manhunt, it becomes a viable solution for the hunted team to make points. I can't recall how many times my team always made more points than the opposing time while we were the prey. It's getting a little ridiculous. I'm not even complaining that people can stun me pretty easily too, if it's easy for them, it's absolutely unfairly one-sided when I'm playing defence. Of course, a little teamwork can overpower a team of over-confident fools who are in mah base, trying to stun mah teammates. Yes, because killing incognito makes twice as much points as stunning, not to mention other bonuses. But when I'm able to stun 3 guys in a row fairly often, it begs the question: I'm I just that good, or am I just exploiting the power of the mighty stun? Especially in Manhunt. I mean, when I get a little over-confident, I'll actually chase a pursuer to stun him, and it works half of the time, too! The bulk of the points in Manhunt should come from hiding, not stunning. I mean, it's supposed to be an humiliation move.
Agreed with this, kind of. But not really.

I've played a match where I had a team working together, and we slaughtered. I played another where we didn't work together and the other team did, and the other team slaughtered.

Both times were played without headsets on anyone in the team I was in.

The one where we got slaughtered, my team was all level 10 - 14, except me (lvl 8), and the opposition were all 40+. We did pretty well considering.

But yes, stuns are more powerful in team modes. I don't think it's bad, it's easier to take someone off-guard when they're tracking your team-mate instead of you.

As for stun being underpowered normally, the only way for it to be underpowered is when you rely on it to break a chase.

Get your pursuer to go after the wrong person, or give them a larger choice of targets than they want, THEN STUN WHILE THEY DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

If you actually USE this strategy, it works. If you don't, and try to walk up to your hunter, you'll fail. Doing this doesn't give you permission to blame the game for your misuse of the ability.

MuddledMuppet2
11-21-2010, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by KaosuGakusetsu:
It seems a whole hell of a lot of you misunderstood what I was saying.

Okay let me explain this in a much more simple form so you can understand.

Now then, when you hit the "B" or "O" button and your fist is like an inch from their face, they turn around and kill you like nothing even happened.

The question is: is that fair and balanced?
My answer: Hell no.

That is the problem I have with stun. Knowing that you executed it, before your hunter went to kill you, yet still you still get killed in the end.

If I need to go into a much more simple form let me know and I can do that.

(Edit: Oh and by the way I was not asking for strategies, you morons. I know all of them, technically just about everyone knows all of them.)

All hail the Keyboard Warrior!!

I don't think you need to make it in a simpler form, I think you just need to learn some skills at communicating your ideas with clarity.

Your 'question' is that fair and balanced, is actually two questions. Want me to make it simpler? Question a) is that fair, question b) is that balanced. So is it fair? Well a silent assassin sneaking up on someone isn't a 'fair' scenario, so it isn't meant to be fair, it is working as intended tho, and most people can understand the reasons behind it and agree with those reasons. Is it balanced? well if the same rules apply to everyone, well yes, it is balanced. Does it balance the probablities of success between an assassin and his target, well no. Beacause it would be stupid to do so.

as to your last so called 'point', "technically" "just about everyone" doesn't know them.

No-one attacked you personally with their replies, they merely expressed opinions, if you are going to enter a battle of wits don't go in unarmed, as your stuns will be as ineffective as your use of stuns in the game.

Have a nice day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

YuvalVarshevsky
04-21-2011, 09:39 AM
There is NO COUNTER-STUN or kill

Counter-stun Happens when Attacking While The Target uses Either smoke bomb or mute and on their screen it never happened. and counter-kill is because the kill animation is faster then the stun animation so next time that bunch of fools try to stun you while recovering. lock on them and mash X or O and then you will "counter-kill"

YourInnate
04-21-2011, 09:44 AM
Dead thread was dead.

Fail revival reply is fail.

Stun works how it is supposed to. Adapt. Get better at the game. And finally, accept that sometimes, you are just going to die....

/thread... For real this time.

Gynn Baderact
04-22-2011, 12:09 PM
So far, a synopsis of this thread.

Stun is too weak
Stun is too hard to pull off
Stun is to susceptible to lag
Stun has too short of reach
Stun should be a counter
Stun is too strong
Stun is over powered
Stun should be removed
Stun should be upgraded

Seriously? Stun is Stun. It is what it is. The trade off for stun is that you get big points but lose your run/hide ability from other pursuers.