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Recon_609IAP
06-24-2005, 11:30 PM
Hey mods, how about making a visibility sticky... I reckon that if we gather up all the requests to Oleg to make it better we'd have the biggest thread yet (errrr, I mean maybe second to p47 dive speed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Whatever happened to the good dots in that one patch - you know, the patch where we could actually see things? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (Or was that removed so we could turn icons on, external padlock, etc...<sarcasm&gthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This game has the best graphics, but the worse visibility - it's a real shame.

Funny thing is, i have to use wide view to see a dot - hit zoom and it's gone. Doesn't make sense does it?

pourshot
06-24-2005, 11:39 PM
The poor visability in this game is starting to realy **** me and it has become worse since the patch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif. Its the only whine I have about il2 to be honest.

AerialTarget
06-25-2005, 01:52 AM
I love to fly at (relatively) high altitude. High altitude dogfights are the best, and you can boom and zoom those who disagree! However, I cannot fly at high altitude without externals on, because I become an easy target - I cannot see anyone below me (unless they pass over a cloud), and they can see me with ease. Therefore, I will be flying along at fifteen thousand feet, dipping a wing every few seconds to look down, and suddenly will see an enemy aircraft directly on my six oh clock low, invisible until now because of the visibility problem. There was no way to see him until he had climbed nearly into firing range.

It's like an inverse bounce, the exact opposite of how it was. Instead of a plane above you using his realistic advantage to zoom down and blast you, you have a plane below you using his unrealistic advantage to slowly climb up and blast you. I'm sick of it!

WTE_Ibis
06-25-2005, 02:43 AM
Sadly it's true visibility is the greatest blight on the game.

Recon_609IAP
06-25-2005, 07:07 AM
bump

pourshot
06-25-2005, 04:38 PM
blump

carguy_
06-25-2005, 04:47 PM
Even though I do not like 3.04 dots---LODs it was the vast majority that pressured Oleg to leave old dots/LODs.

Oleg asked,ppl answered so what else is there to say?

Not my fault ppl were too lazy to play with dotrange setting.We had options but the vast majority turned them down because dots were "ugly".One of the biggest failures of IL2 community IMO.

steve_v
06-25-2005, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
Hey mods, how about making a visibility sticky... While it may be difficult to accept, your concerns are noted by Oleg. Your insight doesn't need a sticky to be recognized and considered.

LStarosta
06-25-2005, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by steve_v:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
Hey mods, how about making a visibility sticky... While it may be difficult to accept, your concerns are noted by Oleg. Your insight doesn't need a sticky to be recognized and considered. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will sleep better tonight knowing this.

VW-IceFire
06-25-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Even though I do not like 3.04 dots---LODs it was the vast majority that pressured Oleg to leave old dots/LODs.

Oleg asked,ppl answered so what else is there to say?

Not my fault ppl were too lazy to play with dotrange setting.We had options but the vast majority turned them down because dots were "ugly".One of the biggest failures of IL2 community IMO.
Yeah I definately voted for the new dots that we once saw as those were the best possible. But not all...

LEXX_Luthor
06-26-2005, 01:52 AM
As more simmers move to higher resolutions, the more Oleg needs to move FB/PF into the 21st Century, and keep it there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

pourshot::
The poor visability in this game is starting to realy **** me and i... AirealTarget::
I cannot see anyone below me WTE::
visibility is the greatest blight on the game.

Lucius_Esox
06-26-2005, 03:51 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote


As more simmers move to higher resolutions, the more Oleg needs to move FB/PF into the 21st Century, and keep it there.

LEXX whilst I agree with you to some extent I'm always shocked when I see surveys of what h/ware most people use for gaming, it's mid range. Lots of 9800's and geforce 5's etc, even older as well.

Sure must be hard to make a level playing field for online with the h/ware performance range beeing so wide.

Stigler_9_JG52
06-26-2005, 10:49 AM
Forget "bump"...

Try BUH-BANG!!!!

This is THE worst aspect of the entire series.

Worse because it INVALIDATES real-world, historical tactics and fighting styles (namely, B&Z and using altitude as a spotting and attack planning platform), and forces other fighting styles (T&B and fighting reactively in the weeds).

LStarosta
06-26-2005, 11:20 AM
Ummm... Obviously many of you do not fly in real life. You think it's so easy to spot aircraft IRL? You have no idea how difficult it is even though the aircraft is uncamouflaged and the ATC gives you clock direction, altitude, and range. And this is especially bad when you are scanning against ground clutter or clouds of variable thickness and "texture". You all assume flying is such a simple thing.

Many of you do not understand that IL2FB is an ARCADE GAME!!!! For crying out loud, in real aircraft there are procedures to be followed, guidelines to abide by. You have to follow checklists, you must stay within the limitations of your airframe and motor, which by the way, in both WWII aircraft (from ALL accounts I've read on SEVERAL aircraft, which without a doubt show how much less forgiving real life aircraft were) and modern aircraft (high performance, especially) are a lot more strict and unforgiving than they are in IL2. Here, regardless of what kind of plane it is, you just hit the I button and gun the throttle and take off. Flying is more complicated in real life!!! Please stop trying to expect perfection from a mere arcade game. No matter how high fidelity the flight model seems, most of you have NO flying experience AT ALL to base your claims of "realism" on!!!

Before you start blaming my 20/10 vision, please go to your local FBO, ask for an orientation ride in a real aircraft, and ask to fly over some busy airspace to spot other aircraft. Then tell me that IL2's visibility is porked. It's all just a matter of compromise. You can't have it perfectly in a game!

rnzoli
06-26-2005, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
Before you start blaming my 20/10 vision, please go to your local FBO, ask for an orientation ride in a real aircraft, and ask to fly over some busy airspace to spot other aircraft. Then tell me that IL2's visibility is porked.

Good advice, but let's do that with a cardboard box mounted on our head, blocking pheripheral vision. Try spotting aircraft through the "pipe"...will be very difficult IRL as well.

IMO pheripheral vision is critical for situational awareness. Although its "resolution is lower", it seems to be more sensitive at detecting light and motion. Look up to the sky on a starry night, and peripheral vision will allow you to spot dim stars that you hardly or don't see at all when looking right at it. Same for spotting stuff in the air, it is usually your peripheral vision that gives you the first hint where to look exactly. (And sometimes that hint is wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

I just can't see how to reach a compromise on this with a single 15' monitor.

AerialTarget
06-26-2005, 01:30 PM
Roger, and things are not even rendered in the game at distances that you can see them at in real life. At any rate, in real life it is easier to see an uncamoflaged airplane against the ground than in the air, the exact opposite of how it is in the game.

LStarosta
06-26-2005, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
At any rate, in real life it is easier to see an uncamoflaged airplane against the ground than in the air, the exact opposite of how it is in the game.

That's the most bogus thing I've read all day. Sorry.

LEXX_Luthor
06-26-2005, 05:12 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Lucius_Esox::
LEXX whilst I agree with you to some extent I'm always shocked when I see surveys of what h/ware most people use for gaming, it's mid range. Lots of 9800's and geforce 5's etc, even older as well.
Until I recently upgraded to ATI~9800, I used my "primitive" ATI~9200 at 1152x864x32 with full Excellent settings. And, I used the default CD driver the whole time (about 2 years old now).

Anyway, Oleg created IL~2 and FB around the very high grafix cards at the time and those coming in the near future. Your post does not make sense. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you wish to talk about how to get ATI-9200 to run high resolution, we may talk.

~~> ATI~9200

Thanks.

Recon_609IAP
06-26-2005, 06:45 PM
I'm not sure what you are talking about LStarosta , or maybe you just don't understand my post.

I am speaking of when a dot becomes a 3d object, the 3d object has major visibility issues.

To put it better, I'm not saying I need help spotting aircraft. I can spot a dot in this game with no problem unrealistically far far away. But when you watch a dot become an aircraft and you see it fine in wide view, you zoom in to it and it disappears???

That is what I am speaking of, which is much much different than saying I need help seeing aircraft.

To summarize, I see the dots just fine, I see them when I'm high or when I'm low - I can see it clear as day - but when I dive in on the dot, it disappears. Something is going on with gunsight mode when you lose an aircraft in the 1:1 ratio aspect to real life but can see it fine in wide view?

So, Steve, does this mean Oleg does indeed recognize there is a problem with visibility?
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying about this issue? Oleg said the same thing about the back six sound issue - but after much research, tracks, and dedication - along with several important threads - Oleg worked the sound issue and it's much better now. I personally think that instead of 100's of posts about visibility over the last several years that we finally get a sticky and show Oleg that the community wants to see improvement in this area.

As others have said, it's a fantastic game, but the visibility is an issue.

Lucius_Esox
06-26-2005, 07:43 PM
I only play in 1024x768 because of my m/c limitations, but I'm assuming from what is being said that the game is moving towards higher resolutions being a visual help in identifying aircraft ??

In that context the average gamers gaming m/c is gonna start causing him not just performance problems, but competitive one's as well, or more so than now imo.

Is there the capacity for compromise with what is available at the moment? Pushing things forward all the time for the sake of advancement is hurting the game now, imho!

I'm not a Luddite but it is a never ending process. It would be nice to sit back and smell the hops for a while..

LEXX_Luthor

My card performs almost the same whether in perfect mode or not, I play in perfect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now if you know how to get a 9800 playing in high res, well, now we could talk. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

LStarosta
06-26-2005, 07:58 PM
Ummm.. Recon... When you lose focus of an airplane, especially against the ground, it's hard to reacquire. I can imagine that when you enter a high speed dive as per a boom and zoom attack, it is not too difficult to lose your focus in the adrenaline rush. You might not be able to perfectly focus on a "dot" in FB, but you don't have to cope with the physical and mental fatigue real pilots had to cope with.

BTW, Lucius, I have a Geforce5600 and I manage 1280x1024 pretty decently. I turned off my anti aliasing, but to be honest, with the gained resolution, the jagged lines are only marginably more noticable, and yet I get an overall more crisp picture with higher framerates than 1024x768 with 2XQ or 4X antialiasing.

Recon_609IAP
06-26-2005, 09:34 PM
so, an aircraft I've tracked from 5km to 500 meters will disapear even though I saw him fine the whole way down in normal view? Then I switch to zoom and I can't see him?

Interesting - I didn't feel fatiqued - is that what is is modelled?

Now now, I finally know why visibility is poor, Oleg is modelling fatique on dive attacks... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I'm not talking 'realism', I'm saying that i see the bandit from quite far away as a dot and when I get close to see the 3d model it becomes very difficult to see, to the point of sometimes due to the angle and color blending becoming practically invisible. Mind you, I've tracked this guy for quite some time on my dive

pourshot
06-26-2005, 11:59 PM
Forgive the quick and dirty nature of my screen shots but I was in a hurry. These were taken in the QMB at 1024x768 with 2xaa, I did not reduce the image size only cropped them to make it easy to view so what you see is what I see.

At many angles the aircraft stand out a lot but at others they are invisible, and stay that way just long enough so you loose track of them.

Now lets play spot the zero's.

Zoom
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/zoomview.jpg
Normal
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/normalview.jpg
Wide
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/wideview.jpg

Freelancer-1
06-27-2005, 12:59 AM
I was flying a co-op last saturday.

Escorting I-152's, I was between 500 and 800 meters above them most of the time. They were running on the deck, of course.

Not once was I able to find them against the ground without one of them flashing their lights.

In real life there are a number of clues we can use to identify distant objects from a cluttered background. These are, for the most part, missing in computer sims.

I think a little fudging in the contrast dept. wouldn't hurt. And maybe bump up the specularity. As it is now these planes blend completely into the back ground. Takes a lot of the fun out of playing 'full switch'.

Freelancer

TooCooL34
06-27-2005, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by pourshot:
Zoom
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/zoomview.jpg
Normal
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/normalview.jpg
Wide
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/wideview.jpg
LOL, pourshot.
Nice screenies!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It became worse after 4.0x version, hope it to be addressed soon.