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View Full Version : Prop pitch - mixture management - realism settings



Fenice_1965
12-17-2007, 06:52 AM
Reading te posts I noticed that general opinion is that manual management of prop pitch and mixture doesn't affect the performance of the plane differently from auto settings.
Manual management anyway creates a considerable amount of workload to the pilot.
In other words manual management adds to immersion but creates a sort of disadvantage for the player who uses it.
This considered I think it should be advisable (for Oleg... maybe 4.09) to allow the possibility of excluding auto pitch and mixture on full realism servers.

general_kalle
12-17-2007, 06:56 AM
i dont think it is that way around

either the server decides the realism settings.
weather to include avanced engine manegement or not

and if its "on" then it depends on plane. as some planes have auto and some dont

those with auto also have manual but that should only be used in special cases.

such as if your engine is damaged or so.

if its not like that somebody plz tell me

Fenice_1965
12-17-2007, 07:34 AM
I haven't used til now il2 ded server, but - as I know - in the game even if you set advanced energy management you have the possibility to choose auto or manual engine management (I din't try with every plane..). As I know (may be I'm wrong) real wwII planes do not have auto pitch or auto mixture. I was considering if it would be correct to eliminate the possibility of using auto settings to compell every pilot use manual pitch and manual mixture.

K_Freddie
12-17-2007, 07:41 AM
Engine management is usefull when cruising fairly long distances, for example..

With the right prop pitch you can throttle down to about 55% and achieve the same speed as auto management at 90% throttle, this all at the same radiator setting.

This has the advantage that your engine will be cooler when going into a combat situation, you will have more fuel to play with. It will probably give you about a 5% advantage than on auto, and this can make a BIG difference.

What I do is switch between auto and manual (preset setting) during a combat situation. Switching over at the right times helps keep the engine cooler and can give you an extra boost of speed and/or critical lower speed control whne needed.

In short.. YES!, it can help a lot if managed properly.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

JG53Frankyboy
12-17-2007, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Fenice_1965:
I haven't used til now il2 ded server, but - as I know - in the game even if you set advanced energy management you have the possibility to choose auto or manual engine management (I din't try with every plane..). As I know (may be I'm wrong) real wwII planes do not have auto pitch or auto mixture. I was considering if it would be correct to eliminate the possibility of using auto settings to compell every pilot use manual pitch and manual mixture.

well, when Complicated Engine Management is enabled by the server host - there is a possibiltiy to choose between auto and manual mode in some planes, yes, but that is historical correct !

fpr propeller settings is use this summary as "rule":
for all piston engined planes except:
Ki-27
J8A
TB-3s
Fw190 in auto mode
Ta152H in auto mode
Spitfire IX and VIII in auto mode
Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in manual and auto mode:
the prop pitch in game is controlling the engine revolutions - so 100% pitch here means you allow the egnine to run at max rpm if enough throttle/power is available.
in combat you shoud fly always with 100%.
to lower your pitch is actually only necesarry if you want realy fly slow (that your comrades or the AI can close formation or you want safe fuel) , than you have to reduce the pitch like the throttle. same % rate or pitch 10% more than the throttle % is a good solution.

also using full throttle and useing only 90-95% pitch can reduce the overheat chance - usefull in some planes like the Tempest or the Corsair and Hellcat. that doesnt harm your speed/climb much, if at all !

very few planes in game are overrev in a power dive (full power, 100% pitch) - IIRC that are the Cr.42, G.50, Mc.200, Fw190A/F in manual mode, Fw190D/Ta152H in manual mode, the Brewsters(not sure about that , may have changed in a patch)


Fw190 in auto mode
Spitfire IX and VIII in auto mode
Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in auto mode:
have a one lever system, if you control the throttle, the pitch is automaticly also controled


Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in manual mode:
thats totaly different, here you control the propeller blade angle direclty ! no automatic will keep the rpm in a "good" condition. it brings you no benefit to use this manual settings anymore (there was a time ). so, dont bother it

the
Ki-27
J8A
TB-3s:
have fixed propellers, so nothing to control there



as i said, the exploit that could be used by manual propeller pitch with the DaimlerBenz engines was "fixed" some game versions before.
that the BMW driven Fw190 perform better in some circumstances in manual mode than in auto mode is a strange design decission of the Maddox team........



anyway, that a Fw190A pilot had only to care one lever in flight, and a simple, mechanical "black box" made all settings automaticly and a Yak-9 pilot had to care and set its propeller, mixture and supercharger manually was historical correct. (these two planes as extrem examples)

anarchy52
12-17-2007, 08:13 AM
Plane that benefits most from manual pitch is Tempest, there is an exploit that allows Tempest to achieve tremendous performance...but I won't go into details. Exploit is well known and used online, to get the most of it, you need a programmable stick.

AFAIK, the exploit will not be removed in the last patch.

SeaFireLIV
12-17-2007, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Fenice_1965:
Reading te posts I noticed that general opinion is that manual management of prop pitch and mixture doesn't affect the performance of the plane differently from auto settings.
Manual management anyway creates a considerable amount of workload to the pilot.
In other words manual management adds to immersion but creates a sort of disadvantage for the player who uses it.
This considered I think it should be advisable (for Oleg... maybe 4.09) to allow the possibility of excluding auto pitch and mixture on full realism servers.

Don`t believe everything you hear on the forum.

Truth is, not that many people go full real or realistic servers, those that do, know different.

I would say that it doesn`t create a considerable workload at all. It`s more a disadvantage for the guy who doesn`t use engine management in a realistic server.

example:

You could ignore your mixture (leaving it at default 100) and fly beyond 4000metres. you`d probably still fly fairly well, but you`ll leave a thin stream of seeable smoke for your enemies to follow. Knowing that simply changing mixture to 80% at that altitude could save between being seen first or you do the seeing first. Now where`s the workload? On top of that your plane performs better.

how many people know that if you`re flying hugging the earth that 120% mix improves the aircraft`s performance? Few use it, but a quick button press and its done, you have the edge. where`s the workload in that?

You don`t even ever have to touch prop-pitch if you don`t want, but again, it makes the difference in saving fuel and running out 2 minutes before the other guy, plus a few other things. Why not try flying for yourself? It`s not as tough as it sounds.

You make it sound like it`s really hard, it ain`t. If you don`t like it, ignore it, but don`t ask Oleg to dumb down because of perceive views on the forum.

GH_Klingstroem
12-17-2007, 09:45 AM
Hey you guys forget the most important thing. Overheat! In a dive u can lower the prop pitch to get an increase in acceleration and therefore speed when u level out after the dive! AND your engine wont overheat! This works extremly well in the p51 that gets a huge boost in acceleration when prop pitch is lowered to 50% in a dive IF its done at 500km/h indicated!
Once u are leveled out after the dive u can once again set a higher prop pitch value, maybe 80. The good thing is that since this will make ur RPM much lower in the dive, u wont overheat AND u can fly the plane with closed radiator and get even more speed out of it!! I do this on full switch servers every day. There is NO fw190D that can catch me!
To dive at 100PP in this game is plain stupid with some planes since it will make them overheat fast! Check out my tracks out this website

http://www.50calibersixguns.com/Downloads.html

cheers

Skoshi Tiger
12-17-2007, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
[example:

You could ignore your mixture (leaving it at default 100) and fly beyond 4000metres. you`d probably still fly fairly well, but you`ll leave a thin stream of seeable smoke for your enemies to follow. Knowing that simply changing mixture to 80% at that altitude could save between being seen first or you do the seeing first. Now where`s the workload? On top of that your plane performs better.


I guess the 'increased workload' comes from the 'real-life'(TM) situation where you forget to increase your mixture as you descend and you start geting detonation as the mixture leans out too much. I'm not sure if it is too much of a problem in-game.

Us virtual pilots have a much more forgiving flying environment.

Do you think we need to start a "Map mixture on slider" thread?

SeaFireLIV
12-18-2007, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
[example:

You could ignore your mixture (leaving it at default 100) and fly beyond 4000metres. you`d probably still fly fairly well, but you`ll leave a thin stream of seeable smoke for your enemies to follow. Knowing that simply changing mixture to 80% at that altitude could save between being seen first or you do the seeing first. Now where`s the workload? On top of that your plane performs better.


I guess the 'increased workload' comes from the 'real-life'(TM) situation where you forget to increase your mixture as you descend and you start geting detonation as the mixture leans out too much. I'm not sure if it is too much of a problem in-game.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That`s just it. Engine management in game is nothing like the realistic engine management in reality. When I first flew IL2 I kept away from realistic engine management cos I thought it would be really tough, but it`s almost nothing. It`s all very subtle and in most IL2 planes you wouldn`t even notice it.