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ARCHIE_CALVERT
04-06-2008, 04:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/WakeUpCall.jpg

ploughman
04-06-2008, 04:45 PM
True without the CAP, could the EU have managed to feed John Prescott?

I like that the Daily Mail's quoting the Ninth Commmandment. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

SeaFireLIV
04-06-2008, 05:10 PM
I don`t think it`s a crime to doubt global warming at all. A somewhat overly dramatised statement.

But over 20 years i`ve seen a rate of chage (at least to Britain`s climate) that to me is astonishing. Only last night (6th April 2008), it was snowing heavily - snowing in APRIL. Ok, so it was gone by morning, but it it was there.

Perhaps it`s not we causing the warming, but perhaps we are increasing the rate at which it is warming or acting up. Perhaps exponentially.

Cossack13
04-06-2008, 05:15 PM
You almost have to feel sorry for folks whose knowledge of history is so poor that they've never heard of the Medieval Warm Period or the Little Ice Age.

I wonder how many millions of dollars little algore will get from such types by selling them those "carbon offsets."

jarink
04-06-2008, 05:42 PM
I remember in the mid-70s they were saying all of the smog and such was going to cause another ice age.

Inadaze
04-07-2008, 09:01 AM
The climate has always changed and always will, Global Warming is nothing more than another excuse to tax the bejeezus out of us.

I'm all for looking after the environment and saving the earths resources, but the zealotry with which the media and politicians use the global warming card makes me sick. Good article, and I usually hate the Mail.

blairgowrie
04-07-2008, 09:11 AM
I hope you are right Inadaze. I have seen the results of acid rain on the great lakes in Canada and what DDT did to the bird population and other species before it got banned. Can't eat the salmon around here any more because of the high levels of mercury.

Inadaze
04-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think that caring for the environment is a good thing!
I don't think anyone wants poisonous fish or dying forests and lake systems, I certainly don't!

My feeling is that global warming is often used as a means of tax revenue, maybe I'm being cynical about it, but I don't trust the way that politicians use extra taxes to pretend as if they are doing something for the environment. (which seems to be the case in the UK)

I'm not saying that global warming is definitely not man's fault, or that is doesn't happen, but that the climate does and will change of it's own accord. To determine if man is responsible will take a lot more research and monitoring of long term weather effects. Climate change now has such a frenzy surrounding it, that in the scientific and political communities to publish research or voice and opinion that says man might not be responsible opens you up to ridicule, and that's not a healthy way to do research or as a basis for decision making.

If as a side effect of the current global warming fear the environment in general is improved, well, that's a good thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif What scares me is that poor science could be being taken as truth and our lives impacted by political decisions which are made based upon those "facts".

jadger
04-07-2008, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
I remember in the mid-70s they were saying all of the smog and such was going to cause another ice age.

ya, CO2 was to blame for the global cooldown because it blocked out the sun... now it's being claimed that it traps the suns rays in earth's atmosphere and causes global warming. Make up your mind global lobbying groups.


I hope you are right Inadaze. I have seen the results of acid rain on the great lakes in Canada and what DDT did to the bird population and other species before it got banned. Can't eat the salmon around here any more because of the high levels of mercury.


what Great Lake you live on? I've lived on Lake Huron my whole life and never had any problem eating any of the fish. If I recall no major warnings about it either. I'm thinking you're way up in Northern Ontario on all the minor lakes, as those are the ones that suffered most from Mercury poisoning.



But everyone has to realize that the more people that believe in what Al Gore said, the more money he, and his "non-profit group" gets. So of course he's going to preach the worst thing imaginable, that way he gets more money. No different than Jonestown or Waco, "join me or the world is doomed"

One has to remember that when the Vikings found North America, they called it "Vinland" meaning "land of wine(grapes)" It is much to cold now to grow grapevines in Newfoundland, where the Vikings had settled. Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing ladies in bikinis all year long, and having a serious farmer's tan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

blairgowrie
04-07-2008, 12:41 PM
I was thinking of all the Great Lakes including the one you live on Jadger.

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2005/113-3/focus.html

MB_Avro_UK
04-07-2008, 07:08 PM
Hi all,

It seems from what I have read is that most of those who support Climate Change are to the Left of the Political spectrum.

I hate being 'forced' into a concept of what is right and wrong.

I have not made my mind up about Climate Change.

There is an interesting debate about the effect of the Sun and it's cyclical activities.

In April 1975 it snowed in England and again in June that year. In June 1944, summer storms almost destroyed the D-Day harbours.But nobody mentioned Climate Change.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

SeaFireLIV
04-07-2008, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:


In April 1975 it snowed in England and again in June that year. In June 1944, summer storms almost destroyed the D-Day harbours.But nobody mentioned Climate Change.


MB_Avro.

That does put things into perspective. I do not remember any snow then (at least not in the midlands), but I would`ve been about 7 at the time and if it happened at midnight I certainly wouldn`t know.

VW-IceFire
04-07-2008, 08:41 PM
Ahh lovely...more sensationalist garbage. Those sorts of articles are written to evoke just the type of reaction that we're having right now. The issue of climate change is a very real one but I don't think its a religion and it has very little to do with faith but with evolving science.

I think a few people in the thread have hit on a few key things...environmentalism is important and I think many of the efforts with climate change have had a beneficial effect on other environmental efforts. I think most people can get behind not poisoning the lakes, killing the fish and wildlife, etc. If you can't I have to wonder...seriously.

But I think slow and steady progress is the key. We don't seem to be moving that fast anyways. Might be bad for us in the long run if what some climatologists are saying but I guess we'll take our chances and see where we end up.

jadger
04-08-2008, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Ahh lovely...more sensationalist garbage. Those sorts of articles are written to evoke just the type of reaction that we're having right now. The issue of climate change is a very real one but I don't think its a religion and it has very little to do with faith but with evolving science.

I think a few people in the thread have hit on a few key things...environmentalism is important and I think many of the efforts with climate change have had a beneficial effect on other environmental efforts. I think most people can get behind not poisoning the lakes, killing the fish and wildlife, etc. If you can't I have to wonder...seriously.

But I think slow and steady progress is the key. We don't seem to be moving that fast anyways. Might be bad for us in the long run if what some climatologists are saying but I guess we'll take our chances and see where we end up.

See, this is what they want you to believe. Your commment comes across as "if you're not with us, youre against us" notably the 2nd paragraph.

Also, the last sentence of your first paragraph. Al Gore said in "an Inconvenient Truth" that global warming is a universally agreed upon fact by scientists. But it isn't science then. Science is debated and scrutinized and experimented. If something is universally agreed upon by all scientists, then it isn't science. What Al Gore describes as science is faith, not science.


I was thinking of all the Great Lakes including the one you live on Jadger.

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2005/113-3/focus.html


from your source: Since the U.S. EPA banned production and most uses of PCBs almost three decades ago, levels of the chemicals in lake water have declined steadily. Over the years levels of PCBs--whose primary use was in nonflammable oil for such devices as switches and electrical transformers and capacitors, as well as a lubricant--have also dropped significantly in some species. According to the EPA, typical levels of PCBs in Great Lakes lake trout during the 1970s were 22 milligrams per kilogram. By the 1980s, they had dropped to about 6 milligrams per kilogram, just slightly above current levels.

I was born in '86, so never been a problem for me, exactly like I said. However, the non-native species problem on that page I have heard of, and think it needs to be looked into.

Talking about dangerous chemicals in our water... we need to drastically reduce the Dihydrogen Monoxide!!!! http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

x6BL_Brando
04-08-2008, 01:39 AM
Ahh lovely...more sensationalist garbage. Those sorts of articles are written to evoke just the type of reaction that we're having right now.

Right on the button, Ice. But what can you expect from a heavily politicised rag like the Daily Mail?

B

WTE_Googly
04-08-2008, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Ahh lovely...more sensationalist garbage. Those sorts of articles are written to evoke just the type of reaction that we're having right now. The issue of climate change is a very real one but I don't think its a religion and it has very little to do with faith but with evolving science.

I think a few people in the thread have hit on a few key things...environmentalism is important and I think many of the efforts with climate change have had a beneficial effect on other environmental efforts. I think most people can get behind not poisoning the lakes, killing the fish and wildlife, etc. If you can't I have to wonder...seriously.

But I think slow and steady progress is the key. We don't seem to be moving that fast anyways. Might be bad for us in the long run if what some climatologists are saying but I guess we'll take our chances and see where we end up.

The article did say that he supports reduction of harmful things into our environment (like poisoning of lakes etc already discussed), he however objected to the fact that any so called 'climate change deniers' get jumped on by hippie greenie polititians/scientists/the brainwashed who think they know best, and most of all want to get into the limelight.

What is needed is not a inquisition, but proper scientific debate (by people who actually know what they are talking about).

jadger
04-08-2008, 11:58 AM
What is needed is not a inquisition, but proper scientific debate (by people who actually know what they are talking about).


+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

not that UN bullschit that came out a couple years ago, that so-called "panel of scientists" had tonnes of politicians on it, and scientists asked to be removed from the panel, and even had to threaten suing for legal action because the UN panel would not remove their names, they wanted more scientists' names in order to sound credible.

RedToo
04-08-2008, 03:23 PM
Quote:
You almost have to feel sorry for folks whose knowledge of history is so poor that they've never heard of the Medieval Warm Period or the Little Ice Age.
Unquote.

Absolutely. Why was Greenland called Greenland? Or even Vinland ...

Current data on global temperatures of the other planets in our solar system shows that they are all undergoing global warming at the moment ...

RedToo.